I see you are bringing that deep analysis again. Go smoke another one KBurnt.
OT: Record-high ocean temperatures to make hurricane season more active
- Thread starter Morrischiano2
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No.
Polar bears are descended from brown bears. The fossil record for what we know as a polar bear only goes back about 130,000 years. It makes sense, because prior to that the current polar bear habitat didn't exist.
Fast forward to today and polar bears and grizzly bears are mating on the common margins of their habitats. A number of hybrid specimens have been identified.
Over time, as polar bear native habitat diminishes they will, as a species, breed with brown bears and their coloring will change as they evolve with that habitat. As individual polar bear specimens die off, their numbers are being / will be replaced by brown bears migrating northward as the arctic warms and habitat changes.
I'm concerned about the impacts of climate change on human habitation - sea levels are rising and will continue to rise and coastal populations, especially in developing nations, will consume a LOT of global resource in an effort to adapt or relocate. Changing climate will have an effect on agriculture. It's already having a very dramatic (and very bad) effect on marine ecosystems - the portion of the global food supply derived from the oceans is beginning to decrease as biomass decreases because of marine pollution. It will decrease much more dramatically as ocean currents slow down and nutrient-rich cold water is no longer delivered to warmer waters to stabilize the bottom of the food chain. Bait fish, which are dependent on things like plankton and krill, will disappear first - and already are. When the bait fish diminish, the game fish will be right behind them. It's already happening. Overfishing, as happens currently, is only expediting the process.
We're already seeing the impact of increased sea water temperatures on coral reefs. In the Indian Ocean, the Red Sea and the Atlantic reefs are bleaching, then dying. 30% of the Great Barrier Reef is now dead. Nearly all of one very large and very significant reef off the coast of Florida has died just in the last two weeks. Reefs are another of the critical building blocks of healthy marine ecosystems and when they collapse, so too do those ecosystems.
Interesting fact that I suspect most people aren't aware of - the majority of marine biomass (fish, for the purposes of this discussion) lives in littoral waters, that is between the coast and the edge of the continental shelves. In the open ocean, in the pelagic zone, there is actually very little life. The open sea is effectively a desert.
So I'm concerned about all those things, but I'm not really concerned about polar bears. Their loss is a symptom of a larger problem and so is a bad thing, but they haven't been around all that long, anyway. When you consider that we're wiping out species and ecosystems that have been around for millions and millions of years, the plight of the Coca Cola mascot tends to fade into the background.
Polar bears are more like a canary in a coal mine. Even as apex predators they probably don't have much effect on regional ecosystems, unlike, say, sharks, which very much effect fish populations. But if they're disintegrating other species are sure to follow. And if the ice in their habitat is melting that much it's eventually going to wind up in peoples living rooms and aquifers as salt water.
True.
Same same penguins, I think.
I did some studying and contemplating on it and finally came to the conclusion that the complete eradication of all species of penguin would actually have a net positive impact on marine ecosystems.
They eat bait fish - a LOT of it.
Nothing much eats them. Leopard seals, depending on habitat, but even they don't eat that many penguins in the grand scheme of things. Aside from the odd shark, they have no other natural predators.
People and animals will adjust as they always have but it will be painful and expensive and many people will die. It's a shame because it could be prevented, or could've been, but humans have a bad tendency to put hard decisions off and not plan ahead, as was revealed with covid and a lack of simple things like gowns and masks. I believe we should take reasonable, sensible steps to prepare and reduce greenhouse gases, though people should not be panicking, but I also believe the deniers look utterly absurd, the usual head in the sand people that posterity looks at with disdain. For years cod fishermen off Canada fought attempts to save the fishery there with catch limits, until the fishery collapsed. Now they're all out of business. Same thing with Columbia river salmon. Job well done deniers.
The criticism and degrading of scientific knowledge and learning over the recent past is disturbing to say the least. I grew up in a much different environment. Those who refuse to accept the documented fact that the earth’s atmosphere is rapidly warming and impacting weather patterns live in a state of denial. I’ve never heard of ocean water temps in excess of 90 degrees around the US coastline. People in those areas better hope a major hurricane does not approach the coast over the next 2 months. That would be adding gasoline onto a fire.
Tuna and swordfish are next. One of my favorite anecdotes is that the record for an Atlantic Swordfish on rod and reel is 1182 lbs., set in 1954. Today's longline fishermen are happy with anything that breaks 100 lbs.
Those are juvenile fish. They're not even old enough to breed.
The Atlantic bluefin fishery has been toast for years. Recognizing that there was a problem, the U.S. marine fisheries folks started lobbying ICCAT (International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas) to impose catch limits similar to those in the U.S.
That request has been refused for the better part of 3 decades, via the lobbying and voting power of representatives from the Med countries. They have no limits. The problem is that it's been determined that there is, effectively, only one population of Atlantic Yellowfin - they migrate around the periphery of the North Atlantic throughout the year and spawn in the Med - where whole schools are herded into nets by Greek, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese fishermen.
Fools who keep doing the same thing over and over. North America used to have huge flocks of passenger pigeons, entirely extinct now, yet every time the warning bell is sounded the same sh*t for brains people make the same arguments and then species disappear.
No just drinking teensIs the OC gov'ment still kicking people off the beach at 8pm?
This probably would've been better to be folded into the original thread on the current tropical season, although the way it's going, it's no longer about the tropical season, which I guess is fine, but that does make it likely it'll just be another pissing match and get locked/moved/deleted.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...-atlantic-basin-activity.261686/#post-6342100
FWIW, both NOAA and the Colorado State group (where Dr. Grey, now dead, started these topical season forecasts) upped their predictions for this season, but the uncertainty on this season is high, given very high Atlantic ocean temps, but also given an ongoing El Nino event (a very unusual combo). And for now, we're near average for the season, but the next two weeks look pretty uneventful, due to the very dry and dusty airmass coming off the Sahara (the Saharan Dry Layer), which looks pretty potent. That will at least likely prevent storm formation in the ICTZ in the Atlantic, although storms can also form in the Caribbean/GOM.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...-atlantic-basin-activity.261686/#post-6342100
FWIW, both NOAA and the Colorado State group (where Dr. Grey, now dead, started these topical season forecasts) upped their predictions for this season, but the uncertainty on this season is high, given very high Atlantic ocean temps, but also given an ongoing El Nino event (a very unusual combo). And for now, we're near average for the season, but the next two weeks look pretty uneventful, due to the very dry and dusty airmass coming off the Sahara (the Saharan Dry Layer), which looks pretty potent. That will at least likely prevent storm formation in the ICTZ in the Atlantic, although storms can also form in the Caribbean/GOM.
Love the lava charts.
NYC was under TWO MILES of ice 20k years ago (not 20 million)
Middle of North Amerca was once an ocean
Upstate NY was under an ocean
Mastodons vanished
Dinosaurs vanished
Earth is a very dynamic construction
The hysteria over fractional temperatue changes "caused" by plant food just silly (and the stats often prove erroneous/faked ).
Growing-up along the Hudson we were told over and over that Indian Point was killing 1.2 billion fish a year - but you would never see a dead fish anywhere.
The climate hystericals get busted lying over and over.
Its beyond question that countrries like Russia and China have funded a lot of climate FUD.
ESG is from CCP via BlackRock (told to play ball or no investment in China)
DEI is another psyop
NetZero is what US will be worth when the kooks get done
The immature egomaniacs in US colleges wanted to be rock stars and play the same games.
They twist "science" all the time and say science is about cleaving to the "consensus" which is not science at all.
Many fields are dead.
Psychology is a joke and 1 in 7 Americans is on meds never proven to work.
"Studies" turn-up fabricated and unreproducible all the time - all politics.
Even the food pyramids are garbage.
UN clowns admit "climate change" is about crippling US and capitalism
They have plans to flood US/Europe with millions of "climate rerfugees"
The maniacs in DC already have US paying "reparations.
They want to cripple food production and energy production while setting US to be global welfare office.
All this is clear and the climate apocalyptics are going to get a billion people dead from famines and stupid wars.
"At a news conference last week in Brussels, Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.'s Framework Convention on Climate Change, admitted that the goal of environmental activists is not to save the world from ecological calamity but to destroy capitalism."
"This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution," she said.
NYC was under TWO MILES of ice 20k years ago (not 20 million)
Middle of North Amerca was once an ocean
Upstate NY was under an ocean
Mastodons vanished
Dinosaurs vanished
Earth is a very dynamic construction
The hysteria over fractional temperatue changes "caused" by plant food just silly (and the stats often prove erroneous/faked ).
Growing-up along the Hudson we were told over and over that Indian Point was killing 1.2 billion fish a year - but you would never see a dead fish anywhere.
The climate hystericals get busted lying over and over.
Its beyond question that countrries like Russia and China have funded a lot of climate FUD.
ESG is from CCP via BlackRock (told to play ball or no investment in China)
DEI is another psyop
NetZero is what US will be worth when the kooks get done
The immature egomaniacs in US colleges wanted to be rock stars and play the same games.
They twist "science" all the time and say science is about cleaving to the "consensus" which is not science at all.
Many fields are dead.
Psychology is a joke and 1 in 7 Americans is on meds never proven to work.
"Studies" turn-up fabricated and unreproducible all the time - all politics.
Even the food pyramids are garbage.
UN clowns admit "climate change" is about crippling US and capitalism
They have plans to flood US/Europe with millions of "climate rerfugees"
The maniacs in DC already have US paying "reparations.
They want to cripple food production and energy production while setting US to be global welfare office.
All this is clear and the climate apocalyptics are going to get a billion people dead from famines and stupid wars.
"At a news conference last week in Brussels, Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.'s Framework Convention on Climate Change, admitted that the goal of environmental activists is not to save the world from ecological calamity but to destroy capitalism."
"This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution," she said.
It’s amazing how animals adapt to their environment whether impacted by weather issues / surburban sprawl etc.
This is a disingenuous analysis.
First, NYC was never under TWO MILES of ice 20k years ago. The NY metro area saw the edge of maximum glacial advance - which is evident in the terminal moraine that is visible in NJ, Brooklyn and all of Long Island (which is a moraine). That period of glaciation began about 2.6 million years ago and at its peak did in fact see ice depths of ~10k feet, but not in NYC, where the max depth was about 1000'. Even that was not all ice because of the morainal effect - it's believed that as much as 30-50% of the overall glacial thickness in this area was rock mixed in with the glacial ice. Melting began in this area about 20k years ago and persisted for the next 6000 years, producing protoglacial features such as Lake Passaic, which extended from what is now Far Hills up to about Lincoln Park.
The epicratonic sea in North America existed from the late Cretaceous until the early Pleistocene - 100 million years go to about 66 million years ago. At that time the continents were all in very much different places than they are now, so any attempt to compare climatological conditions is silly - positions of continents relative to each other as well as the size, depth and positions of their neighboring oceans having a significant effect on overall global climate.
In short, the "but it used to be this that and the other thing" argument is scientifically invalid because over the geological timescale climate was influenced by the movement of the continental land masses more than anything else.
Skipping back to the prime, it took tens of thousands of years for the Wisconsinin Glaciation to melt off to the point where it is now. The rate of melting that we're seeing in the last 30 years far exceeds the rate of melting that existed at any point during those tens of thousands of years. Arguing that what we're seeing now is the same as what happened then is just plain inaccurate.
Interesting. Did you look into sea mammals like sea lions, walruses, elephant seals, etc? I am a nature fan on don't normally advocate man's involvement but some of these animals seem to be overbreeding and have become nuisances and their massive size and blubber indicate they are consuming lots of fish. Seems to me like a cull might be in order.
Not sure if you acknowledge that Climate Change is actually happening....but for the sake of discussion, lets say you do believe that the environment (as a whole globally) is getting warmer.. One would then have to logically acknowledge that as things continue to heat up at some stage there will be a tipping point significantly impacting food and water supply, weather patterns, animal, bird and insect life, and regional living conditions at a minimum. All of this with a timepoint being difficult to predict / zero in on.
Given all of that, would you advise people to either downplay or propagate climate specific alarmism and calls to action?
Similar arguments can be made for the limitations of the earth's available oil reserves which have less than 50 years at current consumption levels. Hence some people better understand and accept and frame the move to alternate sources.
Bottom line is that these debates are likely because some are thinking only in the immediate "now" and impact on themselves while others are thinking about potential future variables and wider impacts.
Seals and sea lions populations have rebounded massively in North America, particularly since the Endangered Species Act in the '70s began protecting their number.
There are definitely a lot more or them. In places like northern California they've long ago achieved "pest status", but killing them just for the sake of killing them (they're not very good eating) wouldn't be an easy sell.
On the east coast their resurgence is wholly responsible for the large uptick in Great White Shark populations, especially around Cape Cod. The shark populations are critical, so pinniped populations are, as well.
Elephant seals don't eat "fish", per se. Like Sperm Whales, they're deep divers and feed primarily on squid and octopus, with the occasional shark / skate / ray thrown in. They'll also, on occasion, snack on a penguin or two.
dumbDave can never make any cogent arguments about the topic being discussed.
Pot..meet Kettle, Kettle...Pot
Saying he's black AF could be considered racist you know.
Lol no. I never call myself that. You might want to use actual facts next time otherwise you look absurd. Have a seat.Pot..meet Kettle, Kettle...Pot
Saying he's black AF could be considered racist you know.
You’d like that, wouldn’t you?This probably would've been better to be folded into the original thread on the current tropical season, although the way it's going, it's no longer about the tropical season, which I guess is fine, but that does make it likely it'll just be another pissing match and get locked/moved/deleted.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...-atlantic-basin-activity.261686/#post-6342100
FWIW, both NOAA and the Colorado State group (where Dr. Grey, now dead, started these topical season forecasts) upped their predictions for this season, but the uncertainty on this season is high, given very high Atlantic ocean temps, but also given an ongoing El Nino event (a very unusual combo). And for now, we're near average for the season, but the next two weeks look pretty uneventful, due to the very dry and dusty airmass coming off the Sahara (the Saharan Dry Layer), which looks pretty potent. That will at least likely prevent storm formation in the ICTZ in the Atlantic, although storms can also form in the Caribbean/GOM.
This allegation is not new. But what makes you think deniers don't have incentive, too? What makes you think this critic doesn't have an agenda?
The reality is that all shades of the political spectrum are prone to take full advantage of catastrophes. This is nothing new. There are grifters on both sides of the climate issue, just like every other issue.
That doesn't mean there's not a climate issue.
Nobody has more incentive than those in the oil, coal, and natural gas business.
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In fact, this allegation was being made when there wasn't much interest or money in climate change--I remember it well--so it's not convincing as an explanation for the entire situation. Long before grants and media attention were available people were sounding the alarm. Also, it's absurd for climate deniers to make this allegation when so many on their side are fossil fuel industry hacks with a 10000000% obvious agenda.
Yeah. Every time I see a list of the most profitable businesses...those who spend so much on "lobbying" it seems to always be climate scientists at the top of the list. And those fossil fuel companies are always at the bottom....barely making ends meet.
The difference is I'm open to the asking of that question without calling you an idiot (or a Trumper etc.) who doesn't deserve to be heard. You know, an actual rational discussion of the subject. Again, what a novel concept. What the hell is wrong with ME?
This isn't about you, it's about the woman in the article claiming it's all driven by desire for fame and fortune. Why is she more credible than the people she criticizes?
No. Not so much. There are key factual errors in that post, as I pointed out.
In your oil reserve discussion why wouldn’t you also include natural gas, coal & nuclear?
And why the artificial forced short timelines and hysteria rather than a balanced approach over 50 years ?
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