OT: Rooftop Solar Panels

[BigWill]

Without going into a long discussion of the power generation/delivery system in the NJ/NY/PA power grid, I'll just say that you and 10,000 other homes with solar generation is a pimple on either company in NJ.

They have to be able to buy and transfer/deliver power to the ENTIRE (including you when it's cloudy) grid AT ALL TIMES. That takes people/infrastructure/power generating stations/fleets of vehicles.....and ......dealing with State public utility commissions.

And....making a profit for it's shareholders...

 

[BigWill]

I've had solar power for about 5 years. I'm a big fan, but live in California.

I looked at a number of options, but this is #1: Don't lease. The lease program is BS. If you are serious about solar, buy the system. If need be, get a HELOC or other loan. I calculated the system would be paid off in about 7 years. Over the five years I've owned, there has been zero maintenance. I expect 30 years for the panels and 10-12 for the inverter.

Don't know the costs are these days, but I understand the costs come down some each year. There may be state and federal tax credits.

The only thing I don't like is the power goes into the grid and the utility supplies the power to my home. If I could, I would buy a battery pack and get off the grid, but that isn't an option where I live.

I would do it over again in a heartbeat. I spend about $2,000 less per year on electricity. My wife is getting a Tesla, so the electric bill may go up a bit, but the electric cost will be minimal if at all. Would be awesome if I could use the solar system to power the car (doubtful), but would be cool because the solar power produced is DC.

I suggest calling around to the solar companies. I used Sun Run (very happy - would recommend). First Solar is another company. They can look at your house on Google Maps and give you an estimate over the phone or email. Shop around. Talk to any neighbors who may have a solar system and ask them about their experience.

My impression is that with a Tesla system and vehicle you are able to charge the vehicle at times that you may be generating a credit back into the utility and charge the vehicle at that time. or when your utility is charging you less for energy. Am I correct or full of BS from marketing baloney ?

 

[miketd1]

I was(still am?) interested in solar.

However, information I’ve come across has convinced me to put my money in other areas first before dumping into solar:

• Air seal and add insulation to attic
• Update any appliances older than 10 years
• Update the HVAC if it’s older than 15 years
• Replace windows if they are older than 20 years

Personally, by the time I’ve checked all those boxes, solar panel tech will probably be much cheaper and more efficient than today.

And doing all the things I’ve mentioned above have the added benefit of adding comfort/livability as well as saving you money.

 

[BigWill]

Replaced the windows, which cost more than putting up solar panels.
Still paying for elec.

All big drain elec appliances are new.
Still paying for elec.

Adding insulation in attic isn't efficient, thinking or adding solar exhaust fan to lower attic temps instead.
Still paying for elec.

New AC need 2 units and new air handlers etc......or what about heat pumps ?
Probably more expensive that panels or even roofing solar tiles.
Still paying for elec.

I'm talking myself more and more.....

 

[dconifer0]

One thing that should be mentioned. Solar panels, or any energy system, I would think, is wired to shut down automatically during any power outages if it's connected to the grid, which it needs to be in order to get credit for power generated from the power company. So you'll still be powerless during outages like the recent ones.

That's the law. It so there's no stray power lingering out on the grid to surprise utility workers when they're out there making repairs...

 

[RUSK97]

My gas/electric bill is almost $300/month. After the storm, wife wants to install a generac standby generator (using natural gas). Cost likely around 6-7K. Better off with solar and a battery backup or the generac?

Wow, that’s dirt cheap. I just got quotes yesterday. $1500 for an interlock for a portable generator. $10k for a 13kw standby generator. $13.5k for a 20kw standby.

 

[tom1944]

Wow, that’s dirt cheap. I just got quotes yesterday. $1500 for an interlock for a portable generator. $10k for a 13kw standby generator. $13.5k for a 20kw standby.

Those are the prices I believe are common. He might be doing the install himself

 

[BigWill]

One thing that should be mentioned. Solar panels, or any energy system, I would think, is wired to shut down automatically during any power outages if it's connected to the grid, which it needs to be in order to get credit for power generated from the power company. So you'll still be powerless during outages like the recent ones.

That's the law. It so there's no stray power lingering out on the grid to surprise utility workers when they're out there making repairs...

Tesla uses Powerwalls storage to give you approx 14 kw storage per unit and it also powers the system when your electric service provider is kaput. There is a system, the actual name my old brain is empty till I recharge it, that takes care of this problem.

You are NOT powerless, as long as you have battery power and charge in your system.

Naturally if you are using more energy than your system is providing you WILL run out of power eventually, even with battery backup.

 

[dconifer0]

Tesla uses Powerwalls storage to give you approx 14 kw storage per unit and it also powers the system when your electric service provider is kaput. There is a system, the actual name my old brain is empty till I recharge it, that takes care of this problem.

You are NOT powerless, as long as you have battery power and charge in your system.

Naturally if you are using more energy than your system is providing you WILL run out of power eventually, even with battery backup.

Cool, I'm glad to hear that. I guess I didn't know because I don't have any type of battery storage...

 

[Jtung230]

Tesla uses Powerwalls storage to give you approx 14 kw storage per unit and it also powers the system when your electric service provider is kaput. There is a system, the actual name my old brain is empty till I recharge it, that takes care of this problem.

You are NOT powerless, as long as you have battery power and charge in your system.

Naturally if you are using more energy than your system is providing you WILL run out of power eventually, even with battery backup.

Do you have this system? I’m looking at it as an alternative to a generator. I was going to just install a generator until I was told I need a new gas line. Now I have to get the town’s permission to dig up the street. It’s going to cost me double than the usual cost. The Tesla estimate was cheap enough (even for 3 battery walls). But want some real feedback before I start the process.

 

[RU1977]

Do you have this system? I’m looking at it as an alternative to a generator. I was going to just install a generator until I was told I need a new gas line. Now I have to get the town’s permission to dig up the street. It’s going to cost me double than the usual cost. The Tesla estimate was cheap enough (even for 3 battery walls). But want some real feedback before I start the process.

Why would you need a new gas line?

Also, a standby generac lists at $3659 for a 13kW generator, with installation at about 2K or so.

• 
• Guardian 13kW Home Backup Generator with 16-circuit Transfer Switch WiFi-Enabled
• MODEL #7174STARTING AT$3,659.00
• MSRP Includes Transfer Switch - Installation, Taxes and Shipping Not Included

 

[RU1977]

Wow, that’s dirt cheap. I just got quotes yesterday. $1500 for an interlock for a portable generator. $10k for a 13kw standby generator. $13.5k for a 20kw standby.

Where did you get your quote from? The 13 kW generac is only about 4K, with installation around 2K or so (from generac site). What am I missing?

 

[BigWill]

Do you have this system? I’m looking at it as an alternative to a generator. I was going to just install a generator until I was told I need a new gas line. Now I have to get the town’s permission to dig up the street. It’s going to cost me double than the usual cost. The Tesla estimate was cheap enough (even for 3 battery walls). But want some real feedback before I start the process.

I do not have solar at this time. I am kicking the tires to get as much info as I can prior to making the move to solar.

Tesla is to be moving into it on a national basis with 2 systems. Panels if you don't need a roof shingle replacement and solar roof shingles (called V3s) if you need a new roof.

The Power Walls are just storage battery for use when your solar isn't producing energy (night/cloudy/snow/etc) and to keep your solar plant operational when your electric provider is not functioning.

I have a lot of sun exposure with good directional facing and no trees. NY State power concerns with Cuomo shutting down Nuke plants in the future. Which will raise rates to provide the power necessary without cheap Nuke energy.

 

[Jtung230]

Why would you need a new gas line?

Also, a standby generac lists at $3659 for a 13kW generator, with installation at about 2K or so.

• 
• Guardian 13kW Home Backup Generator with 16-circuit Transfer Switch WiFi-Enabled
• MODEL #7174STARTING AT$3,659.00
• MSRP Includes Transfer Switch - Installation, Taxes and Shipping Not Included

I have no idea. The contractor and PSE&G said I need a new or separate line. The contractor said the existing line can’t handle the pressure when the generator starts up.

 

[Jtung230]

Where did you get your quote from? The 13 kW generac is only about 4K, with installation around 2K or so (from generac site). What am I missing?

NJ COLA pricing

 

[BigWill]

If you go with a generator you need to know how big you need or what which machines/systems you want to power.

The more you want to be operational the larger generator you need.

 

[RU1977]

If you go with a generator you need to know how big you need or what which machines/systems you want to power.

The more you want to be operational the larger generator you need.

I use "Sense" to monitor my energy usage (monitors energy usage). I average under 3000 watts (my phone tells me I'm only using 1330 watts right now - ac must not be on), with a max of about 4000 watts. I would think the 13K watts that the generator would provide would be more than sufficient for the whole house. Also used the estimator on the generac site to determine what size generator I would need (it says 13K watts) vs house size/appliances etc.

Only problem with the generator vs solar (with a battery storage unit) would be that I'm still paying for electric with the generator.....

 

[BigWill]

I figured there was some magic thing out there that had the answer.

You can learn a lot of stuff here and elsewhere on Rivals.

 

[eceres]

I use "Sense" to monitor my energy usage (monitors energy usage). I average under 3000 watts (my phone tells me I'm only using 1330 watts right now - ac must not be on), with a max of about 4000 watts. I would think the 13K watts that the generator would provide would be more than sufficient for the whole house. Also used the estimator on the generac site to determine what size generator I would need (it says 13K watts) vs house size/appliances etc.

Only problem with the generator vs solar (with a battery storage unit) would be that I'm still paying for electric with the generator.....

Do you find sense useful? I heard of it but seemed 1 hookup on main power would not be very good.

I get the overall power level, but can you actually tell what’s causing the change?

 

[RUSK97]

Why would you need a new gas line?

Also, a standby generac lists at $3659 for a 13kW generator, with installation at about 2K or so.

• 
• Guardian 13kW Home Backup Generator with 16-circuit Transfer Switch WiFi-Enabled
• MODEL #7174STARTING AT$3,659.00
• MSRP Includes Transfer Switch - Installation, Taxes and Shipping Not Included

They require more natty gas; if current supply line can’t handle furnace and HW heater and dryer and range in addition to the generator they may install a larger gauge pipe?

 

[RUSK97]

Where did you get your quote from? The 13 kW generac is only about 4K, with installation around 2K or so (from generac site). What am I missing?

I know right? A Hillsborough-based electrical company. The 13 kW would in the case of my house, require a transfer panel that becomes the ‘main panel’. They’d move over a bunch of circuits from my existing panel. The estimation is 13kW wouldn’t be adequate to run everything in my house (certainly no AC).

 

[RU1977]

Do you find sense useful? I heard of it but seemed 1 hookup on main power would not be very good.

I get the overall power level, but can you actually tell what’s causing the change?

Yes - It tries to determine what is using power (and how much each is using) in real-time. It does a decent job learning what device is what (fridge/lights/ac/etc). Hookup is easy, just attach to the input wires at the main circuit breaker box with two simple hookon current sensors and it does need power from one circuit breaker switch. I do find it useful.

 

[MCY]

I can't recall if anyone here was an authorized SunPower dealer. If so, I might have a warranty repair for you (1 of my inverters is indicating a Disturbance fault). Thx!

 

[RUBOB72]

I have been talking with a company about getting panels put on my roof. Their deal is nothing down and a fixed payment per month for 25 years which guarantees to cover the first x killowatt hours with the utility picking up after that.

Anyone else have panels on their roof? If so did you buy them outright or work with a company like this? Any advice or warnings?

Personally paying for solar panels over 25 years seems a bit outrageous and I would consider that closely. In the event you move and sell the home. Do the panels go back or are you still on the per month hook?

 

[RU to the Core]

My neighbor put a Tesla roof on his house. Like the one that looks like shingles. Literally took the company who installed it a solid month to assemble the thing. Took forever. A lot of prep work on the roof too. They put down all this roof material the shingles sit on top of. They also had to move some of his roof vents. Crazy amount of work. They look alright; although his roof looks a bit shiny if you compare it to a regular roof but way better yet hem panels. He got the power wall too he said for when the power goes out. I think it costs him some crazy amount of money for the whole thing

 

[Morrischiano2]

So we just moved into a new house and are thinking about solar panels. We have 3 kids, the youngest is going into 6th grade so we'll be in this house about ten years.

We're thinking about solar panel systems. Anyone go through the process of getting solar panels and is it worth it if we plan on moving in 9-11 years?

 

[T2Kplus20]

Waste of time and money. The tech isn't there yet without massive gov subsidies.

 

[RC1991]

Yes, it’s worth it. Would make sure you have a relatively new roof though because if the roof is due to be reshingled you’ll want to do that first. Costs are coming down and efficiency keeps getting better. There is a 26% federal tax credit through the end of the year and then 22% starting in 2023. If you do solar plus a battery backup you can stay energized even if the grid goes down. We put ours in at the end of last summer. We’ve reduced our electricity bill by 75% and we live in a state with cheap electric to start. We also build credits when we’re exporting to the grid which get applied later in the year when there is less sun. Had a few outages and the house ran on solar during the day and the battery kicks in when no or little sun.

 

[Morrischiano2]

Yes, it’s worth it. Would make sure you have a relatively new roof though because if the roof is due to be reshingled you’ll want to do that first. Costs are coming down and efficiency keeps getting better. There is a 26% federal tax credit through the end of the year and then 22% starting in 2023. If you do solar plus a battery backup you can stay energized even if the grid goes down. We put ours in at the end of last summer. We’ve reduced our electricity bill by 75% and we live in a state with cheap electric to start. We also build credits when we’re exporting to the grid which get applied later in the year when there is less sun. Had a few outages and the house ran on solar during the day and the battery kicks in when no or little sun.

The house we bought is 6 years old so the roof should have a good 15-20 yrs left on it. The house has a nat gas whole house generator. Does it still make sense to get a battery?

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

So we just moved into a new house and are thinking about solar panels. We have 3 kids, the youngest is going into 6th grade so we'll be in this house about ten years.

We're thinking about solar panel systems. Anyone go through the process of getting solar panels and is it worth it if we plan on moving in 9-11 years?

I think it will be worth it. You can prepare an analysis to determine your payoff period. My rooftop solar system was paid off in 7 years, but I literally live in one of the sunniest places on Earth. New Jersey has less solar potential than the Sacramento Region. It will come down to whether a 10 year payoff (just a guess on my part) is worth it for you. A 10 year payoff would be equivalent to a 7% rate of return.

One thing that I feel strongly about - do not lease solar panels. Either buy the system or don't. The leases are not a good deal, IMO, and they will royally complicate a home sale.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

The house we bought is 6 years old so the roof should have a good 15-20 yrs left on it. The house has a nat gas whole house generator. Does it still make sense to get a battery?

If you already have a backup generator, the main value of a battery backup system would be in the event of an extended gas outage. Seems like a big expense for a low probability event, IMO.

 

[fg7321]

Waste of time and money. The tech isn't there yet without massive gov subsidies.

Crawl out from under your rock....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamese...ption-even-without-subsidies/?sh=1ccd0ab95a6b

 

[LBusDoor90_rivals]

Crawl out from under your rock....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamese...ption-even-without-subsidies/?sh=1ccd0ab95a6b

Don't bother trying to convince the "confirmation bias" crowd committed only to parroting what their tribe states is fact. Life is much easier with them on ignore here.

 

[RC1991]

The house we bought is 6 years old so the roof should have a good 15-20 yrs left on it. The house has a nat gas whole house generator. Does it still make sense to get a battery?

If you already have a whole house generator the battery may not make sense then at least from a backup perspective. However, the battery does turn your system into a mini grid. One other aspect of a battery (esp the Tesla battery) is that instead of running in backup mode you could use the battery in a power management mode to power your house at night if the utility charges higher rates. Then the battery recharges during the day. If the battery is charged with solar it also qualifies for the tax credit. But already having a whole house generator makes the equation a little trickier to figure ROI. One other advantage of a battery though small is no maintenance though I can’t imagine routine maintenance on a gas generator is a lot. In NJ the likelihood of a natural gas outage is probably lower than here where it could be impacted by earthquakes.

 

[RC1991]

I think it will be worth it. You can prepare an analysis to determine your payoff period. My rooftop solar system was paid off in 7 years, but I literally live in one of the sunniest place on Earth. New Jersey has less solar potential than the Sacramento Region. It will come down to whether a 10 year payoff (just a guess on my part) is worth it for you. A 10 year payoff would be equivalent to a 7% rate of return.

One thing that I feel strongly about - do not lease solar panels. Either buy the system or don't. The leases are not a good deal, IMO, and they will royally complicate a home sale.

Definitely agree on the no lease option! Regarding the amount of sun I was surprised up here in WA. In winter it’s pretty dark most of the day so we didn’t produce too much from November to January but it was more than I thought we would. These long 15-16 hr summer days definitely make up for it though! But it would probably be better to have consistent sun throughout the year to maximize the potential.

 

[RobertG]

Bringing this back up. Has anybody had any experience with the new GAF panels? I need a new roof, including the new plywood so I saw these advertised by All County Exterior. Thoughts?

https://www.gaf.energy/can-you-save...g9nS8OuUiXE1fZ2u0i68ZZSW9lp6HqrsaAoJbEALw_wcB

 

[wasiman]

I live in Cape Coral Florida. I put in solar 3 years ago, Cost for 36 panels was approximately 36,000. My bill is currently $25.09 per month. I did have to get a new roof because of hurricane Ian , I used the solar installer who has a roofing division, Everything went well. Some other solar owners had to pay about 3-4 thousand to unhook the panels and re-install. Some of my friends are paying 400 / month for electricity, I did get 12000 dollar one time tax break. I am now producing more electricity than I am using, They send me a check every January . It is not what I pay for kilowatt hour but it is something.

 

[e5fdny]

I have both, solar and a whole house NG Generac generator.

I own the panels but as others have mentioned we don't get the sun as much as other parts of the country. I only go over the 1-megawatt threshold a few months out of the year.

The one roof is very young, lots of time left on those shingles. The other is a membrane which lasts significantly longer, so I am good in that dept.

 

[motorb54]

What are the numbers you look at when buying?

Cost of the system
Normal energy use
What you can sell the excess energy back for?

They only let you put in a system that generates the kWh that you used in the last 12 months.
In my case it was JCP&L that somehow had the power to kill our plan. We had to scale it back to under 100% of the last years usage. Why the powers that be (Hello Dems and you environmental nuts that support them) don't let me generate extra power so I could add electric heater to decrease my use of fossil fuel heat in the winter. Or add the ability to charge the EV they want me to buy. Hey Murphy, you want to go to the California model? Hypocrite.

 

[fg7321]

They only let you put in a system that generates the kWh that you used in the last 12 months.
In my case it was JCP&L that somehow had the power to kill our plan. We had to scale it back to under 100% of the last years usage. Why the powers that be (Hello Dems and you environmental nuts that support them) don't let me generate extra power so I could add electric heater to decrease my use of fossil fuel heat in the winter. Or add the ability to charge the EV they want me to buy. Hey Murphy, you want to go to the California model? Hypocrite.

That is done to protect the folks who are paying to use power off the grid and the electric company. They don't want to have to pay for your extra power when they have to have the generating capacity for everyone if needed.

Go ahead and install your heaters. After a year come back and try agin with the usage from your heaters in the calculation.

We dont even use $100 of electricity to make it worthwhile to install solar