OT: Sinead O'Connor passes away at 56
- Thread starter Proud NJ Sports Fan
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The conversation about people not being in the RRHOF is pointless until Peter Frampton is nominated.
Certainly deserves to be nominated. Not a strong case over the others in this thread, IMO, and none of them are in this list of top 20 HOF snubs.
https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2023/06/20-puzzling-rock-roll-hall-of-fame-snubs.html
Sinead and Delores have some similarities and at the same time polar opposites. Irish, past demons, substance abuse, died too young and of course great voices/singers.
Delores was entertaining on stage, out going, outwardly happy, funny.
Sinead was dark, awkward and uncomfortable around people and uncomfortable to watch perform. She fought mentally with the world her hole life.
I would have liked to hang around with Delores. I wouldn't have spent a second with Sinead.
It wasn’t a ”juvenile hissyfit”. It was a protest about the indifference of the church to abuse. She was intentionally political Throughout her life and it cost her. You may not agree with the action but it wasn’t a hissyfit at all.
Poppycock and nonsense. There's no greater HOF snub than Frampton. Top 5 guitarist, #3 selling live album of all time. I will not discuss this further.
You are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. A hissy fit is an overdramatic tantrum. I stand by my characterization. She could have used her platform and made an intelligent plea. While I would rarely rely on something Madonna does or says as support, Madonna had this to see, which is right on:
"I think there is a better way to present her ideas rather than ripping up an image that means a lot to other people." She added, "If she is against the Roman Catholic Church and she has a problem with them, I think she should talk about it."
But it's fashionable now to dunk on religion, particularly the Catholic church, and I suppose Madonna might feel differently about the stunt.
How can someone not agree with her action? She was (unfortunately) proven right 1000 times over. People should have listened to her then, and the pope should have appologized to her, not the other way around.
Who wouldn't? (not meant in a smart a$$ way).
My 2 cents. Respected her music. Found her a bit creepy. Sad news and my she RIP.
You missed the point of my second post. At no point did I defend the Catholic church. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Joe Pesci addressed it on the next episode of SNL. Times have changed, and what he said in his monologue would have gotten him canceled in today's world.
Also from Wikipedia:
Harsh criticism towards the Irish singer continued in the following days: she was condemned by civil rights organization Anti-Defamation League,[50][98] while the National Ethnic Coalition of Organizations hired a steamroller to crush hundreds of copies of her albums outside of her record company’s headquarters;
OK. What is the 'right' way to protest a guy running a massive child sexual abuse ring and coverup for god knows how many years? Cuz all those people who were 'protesting' him by faithfully going to church each week and saying nothing...well that sure didn't work.
I believe so, yes.
I get that a lot of people - maybe most people - are unfamiliar with his work beyond the phenomenal FCA album. And while the guitar work on that is amazing, especially considering that it's live, there's stuff out there that really brings home the fact that he's a truly great guitarist. One of my favorite albums, just released a few years ago, is called "All Blues" and is really good. Same with his most recent, called "Frampton Forgets the Words" which is an instrumental compilation of standards like "Georgia On My Mind", where you can really get a sense of how melodic he is.
From a technical perspective, he's one of the real, true masters of modal interchange - in fact, a few of his songs (Lines On My Face, for example) are actually ideal teaching tools on the topic.
This provides good context (1992) as Polish Pope John Paul II was a beloved Pope at the time who was actually courted by Reagan as a weapon in the Cold War…a war which had been won at this point.
Especially in his homeland...
He let be known way before during the Solidarity movement to the Soviets if they invaded to help squash it, he would put down the Crown of St. Peter and return to fight alongside his countrymen.
The Soviets realized they couldn't kill almost 40 million Poles, so they put the hit out on him.
For one of the first times- I highly disagree with you. She had something very personal happen to her as a child and it is something that goes further and deeper into the Catholic Church which has affected so many other young children. She ha a platform and took it.
Someone deeply Catholic will obviously take great offense - She had a greater platform than most other victims ever could, she took it. "Talking" about it is like sitting in a padded room with no one else there.
Maybe, instead of getting upset with people that make a statement, instead of getting upset on how they made it(if it is non violent)- we should look deeper into the actual problem and try to fix it.
Good thread. Good conversation. My two points:
1. Mandinka is one of the best alternative rock songs of all time.
2. The B-52s are in my top 10 favorite rock artists, the others being The Beatles, Stones, Springsteen, The Police, The Clash, The Cure, The Doors, U2, and The Killers.
1. Mandinka is one of the best alternative rock songs of all time.
2. The B-52s are in my top 10 favorite rock artists, the others being The Beatles, Stones, Springsteen, The Police, The Clash, The Cure, The Doors, U2, and The Killers.
I didn't like her after performance ripping of the photo but I think you need to look up the meaning of a tantrum. It was a planned demonstration on her part.
So true.
But as my wife has told me so many times....you expect too much from people.
this ( article) says what she did best and the backlash she faced was by those who didn't understand the scope of abuse what she was protesting about when she destroyed the picture of the head of the orginazation that was covering up its child abuse problems.
>In 1992, Sinéad O’Connor destroyed a photo of Pope John Paul II on U.S. national television. The pushback was swift, turning the late Irish singer-songwriter’s protest of sex abuse in the Catholic Church into a career-altering flashpoint.
More than 30 years later, her “Saturday Night Live” performance and its stark collision of popular culture and religious statement is remembered by some as an offensive act of desecration. But for others — including survivors of clergy sex abuse — O’Connor’s protest was prophetic, forecasting the global denomination's public reckoning that was, at that point, yet to come. O'Connor, 56, died Wednesday.
The SNL moment stunned David Clohessy, a key early member of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests. In his 30s at the time, he had only recently recalled the repressed memories of the abuse he suffered. He found O'Connor's act deeply moving. It was something he and other survivors never thought possible.<
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/f...e&cvid=8eccede329e143d1a5ee84b893c53563&ei=38
Who said I was upset or offended?
I think the thing you may be missing is that her SNL stunt was pre-internet. Maybe I missed it, because I did not really give a crap either way about her actions as a lapsed Catholic who happens to agree with much of her position on how the Catholic church handled the situation, but I don't recall her doing something to raise awareness of the issue, similar to things Bono did to address hunger. From accounts of the incident, it was not clear until many years later what her point was in tearing up the picture of the Pope. In her autobiography (or whatever it was in 2021, she said that "Everyone wants a pop star, see? But I am a protest singer. I just had stuff to get off my chest. I had no desire for fame."[125] In the same memoir, she also wrote that she felt like the incident actually put her "back on the right track", following a personal crisis stemming from the success of "Nothing Compares 2 U".
Now if this would have happened post 1998 or 2000 with the ubiquity of the internet and social media channels, more people would have understood what point she was trying to make. So to be clear, I understand her pain and anguish, but I don't understand or agree with how she channeled that pain and anguish and expressed it to the point of it turning off a lot of people who may have been sympathetic to her plight.
Yeah, no. It’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of definitions. Using your very own definition of hissyfit as an “over dramatic tantrum” makes my point. Her act was planned and intentional, not a tantrum at all and thus not a hissyfit under your very own definition. And that’s not an opinion, that’s the reality. Whether one Agrees with her actions is a completely different question.
Smarmy response fail by you. Her SNL thing happened in 1992. IIRC, news of the child sex scandal did not get much if any publicity until later in the 1990s. So you think all of the faithful Catholic churchgoers who had zero knowledge of what was going on in the rectories and in other places were complicit. That's just dumb. I know lots of folks who left the Catholic church and never went back after the sex scandal became known.
I made my points above that Sinead O'Connor could have used her platform and moment to actually say something about the abuse, instead of her confusing gesture: "while singing the word "evil", after which she tore the photo into pieces, said "Fight the real enemy", and threw the pieces at the camera." It was a real head scratcher, which is perhaps why Madonna, Joe Pesci and many others reacted negatively. Perhaps I'm missing something, but at that place in time with no internet, Twitter, Facebook, etc., a large percentage of people had not clue what the heck her gesture was about.
100% disagree that "a large percentage of people had not a clue". Irish and Irish American Catholics have known for decades before 1992. It doesn't take social media to spread the word. It was a big story that year. Everyone knew what she was talking about! Look up James Porter 1992. You are being a complete *** on this subject. Big story a month before her SNL appearance.
RIP Sinead. She had a number of hits over in the UK, Ireland and Australia, but really only hit it big in the US with one song.
No, nowhere close. They first hit the scene in the late 70's/early 80's with non-mainstream hits like Rock Lobster and Private Idaho, then hit more mainstream with their Cosmic Thing album in the mid 80's.
Balderdash! I won't start taking the RnR HOF seriously until they induct Minnie Riperton.
No, nowhere close. They first hit the scene in the late 70's/early 80's with non-mainstream hits like Rock Lobster and Private Idaho, then hit more mainstream with their Cosmic Thing album in the mid 80's.
Balderdash! I won't start taking the RnR HOF seriously until they induct Minnie Riperton.
I went back and damnit! I DID misread your post- I don't care what anyone says- you are OK! lol
You two are way, way off on this. Until TOOL is inducted, Frampton and all those posers in the cleveland.com article shouldn't even be considered.
Uh, I mean, unless TOOL is already in. In which case, uh, nevermind.
one of my favorite concerts is when PF reopened The Chance in Poughkeepsie NY. One of the great venues for some major bands that have played there. They get some huge acts because Poughkeepsie is halfway between NYC and Albany as well as Saratoga. These acts like it because it is such a small venue and they get to mess around with the crowd and even play things they don't usually play in concert.