Tomlin resigned. The Steelers would never fire him. Harbaugh was fired, which was stupid.
Our program
- Thread starter WEH8ST8HAWK
- Start date
Five hands? I thought it was 10-1?
And per Willie's rankings it is 2.6 - 1.
I think you just did what we would call a fail.
Did Tomlin resign? Or did Tomlin "resign"?
I believe he actually resigned. That's the way the Steelers run things.
No question. But even before I worried about PSU I was worried after that 2010 class.
A lot of fans saw what was happening back then and knew there was going to be a massive shift. The recruiting whiffs were evident early on but I can remember Carl’s first year and PSU leading NCAAs after the first session or day due to their upsets and bonus points with the poor team cael inherited.
Back then, like now, we were told to be quiet while we watched it all play out while being told our eyes were deceiving us.
What the hell does that rule even achieve i wonder In todays wrestling world that makes no sense
Loudest guy in the room is always the weakest
that 2010 class was a massive whiff. It started with Baldosaro falling out and the rest is history.
FLO final big board!?!?! Where is KerKIn? Where are this years guys?
This is ONLY p4P, and recruits, He Krailures to mention, TRANSFER, kids who somehow did not make it like MessySheet the Japanese kid, bring in AAs, and more!!
I would get LOUD and MOP the floor with you!!! That being said, just because you is a wimp, and somehow got involved with wrestling??? TRY to stand for SOMETHING!!!
You are not making your case any stronger.
First, "this is only p4P" is not an objection. It is the fact of the way all of this is measured and talked about. But, whatever.
On the transfer side, Iowa has brought in two top 10 recruits (Teemer #8, #10 Peterson) to PSU's two (Kerkvliet #1, Welsh #3).
Iowa has done it with volume after that. I found 15 transfers since it became a thing (~2018). For PSU I found 8. Maybe I have missed some. Not a lot. Maybe some.
What each has done with them differs.
From 19 completed transfer seasons so far Iowa has gotten 11 AAs with 1 of those being a championship.
From 14 completed transfer seasons so far PSU has gotten 10 AAs with 3 of those being a championship.
This year PSU looks likely to add 2 more AA from Mesenbrink and Welsh. Iowa is likely to add 1 more from Caliendo, and has a shot at adding 2 more from Williams and Peterson, and has a long shot at adding 1 more from Bailey.
So your 10-1 goes in the opposite direction for transfers. Iowa has been the volume player in that market for the past 7 years.
Edit: I included the partial seasons of Endene and Nagao as full seasons assuming neither returns or AAs.
Edit Edit: I included a season for Peterson. Oops. Make it 19 completed seasons for Iowa.
Edit Edit Edit: Added Konel and Welsh
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I am sorry, but that is 100% patently false. Much along the lines of just ignore the bully and he will go away. The toughest guy I have ever known was absolutely the loudest as well. Now, that doesn’t mean there aren’t tough guys out there that avoid problems and feel they have nothing to prove. But, there are also plenty that feel they ALWAYS have something to prove and perpetually live with that chip on their shoulder…
There has definitely been more than 6 transfers for PSU.You are not making your case any stronger.
First, "this is only p4P" is not an objection. It is the fact of the way all of this is measured and talked about. But, whatever.
On the transfer side, Iowa has brought in two top 10 recruits (Teemer #8, #10 Peterson) to PSU's one (Kerkvliet #1).
Iowa has done it with volume after that. I found 15 transfers since it became a thing (~2018). For PSU I found 6. Maybe I have missed some. Not a lot. Maybe some.
What each has done with them differs.
From 20 completed transfer seasons so far Iowa has gotten 11 AAs with 1 of those being a championship.
From 13 completed transfer seasons so far PSU has gotten 10 AAs with 3 of those being a championship.
This year PSU looks likely to add 1 more AA from Mesenbrink and Iowa is likely to add 1 more from Caliendo and has a shot at adding a two more from Williams and Peterson and has a long shot at adding 1 more from Bailey.
So your 10-1 goes in the opposite direction for transfers. Iowa has been the volume player in that market for the past 7 years.
Edit: I included the partial seasons of Endene and Nagao as full seasons assuming neither returns or AAs.
Edit Edit: I included a season for Peterson. Oops. Make it 19 completed seasons for Iowa.
Do you feel the need to argue with absolutely anything, even when it's obviously pointless? Asking for a friend.
Welsh and Conel off the top of my head. Guessing there’s more
Sorry, but you not only said something incredibly stupid, you made it an ABSOLUTE by using “always”. Add in that I have very personal experience to the exact opposite of the stupidity and there was no way I wasn’t going to jump on it…
Sorry, you PSU slappies run together, so I am fine lumping you in with the other clown that actually posted said stupidity…
I wish Michigan State had a wrestling board. I know someone I would portal there...
"
Posted this in a separate thread by mistake, sorry. Better suited here.
Iowa Wrestling is a dynasty. Period. But even dynasties face transitions. No program can stay on top forever—and that’s healthy for the sport. What matters most is preserving culture, integrity, and respect—and on that front, Iowa remains unmatched.
Culture:
The program’s culture is real. You see it celebrated with athletes like Kennedy, Arnold, Cruz, Ybarra, Jesurogas, Lee, Kem, Marinelli, Young, and Murin; in transfers like Woods, Lugo, Teske, Bailey, Williams, Franek, and the Voinovichs—who have all experienced other programs; and in incoming stars like Mocco, Bassett, Teasdale, DeLuca, etc.
Standards are high, and excellence is expected. Moments like Mo’s celebration after beating Merrill, Shumate, and Stout aren’t just fun—they reflect a shared commitment to the program’s values.
Iowa’s culture comes with tough love. The program sets clear expectations:
- Scrutinizing admissions (AJ, Downey)
- Making hard calls on departures (Gross, Mo, Teasdale)
- Holding athletes accountable for behavior (Austin and others)
Meanwhile, Iowa avoids major scandals—tradition of DUIs, sexual assaults, cover-ups, eligibility manipulations, or steroid problems—protecting its reputation and integrity.
Historical Advantage and Modern Challenges:
Iowa has long had a recruiting edge thanks to its fan base, tradition, and national reputation. Wrestlers grew up dreaming of competing in Iowa City. That legacy helped attract elite talent even before NIL deals and modern RTCs. But today, that advantage is no longer enough. Athletes can go elsewhere for more money, modern training, or alternative post-collegiate paths. Technique, athleticism, and conditioning now matter as much or than grit and toughness. To stay on top, Iowa must modernize while preserving culture.
Generational Coaches and Staying Close:
Generational coaches—like Cael Sanderson, Dan Gable, John Smith, and perhaps soon Taylor—are rare. They don’t just win; they define eras. Only one program can truly benefit from that type of leadership at a time - and a lot of things need to fall in place in right way and at the right time (the OSU job was going to Scott/Perry/Espo before the Taylor bomb dropped, see what I did there Kyle) . For other programs, including Iowa, the goal is to stay as close to that rocketship as possible. In today’s landscape, a distant second is almost indistinguishable from fifth. Recruiting, RTC presence, and culture all need to work together to minimize the gap and maintain relevance.
Coaching Evolution:
Supporting Tom, Terry, Ryan, Telford, and D. Dennis doesn’t mean staying static. Iowa should strategically supplement the staff—or adjust a few positions—with experts who bring something new: technical innovation, freestyle knowledge, or modern athlete development. Potential additions include:
- Doug Schwab (top priority): Modernized version of Tom and Terry with proven success
- Brian Snyder, Robie, Pritzlaff, Dresser, Reader, Ben Askren: Freestyle and system-building expertise
- Bo Nickal, Jason Nolf, K. Snyder, Burroughs, Cary Kolat: Modern technique and developmental vision
- Tim Hartung, Strittmatter, Ironside, St. John, Mike Poeta, Brent Metcalf, Troy Nickerson, Cliff Moore, J. McGinness: Culture carriers and elite mentors
- No Dake.
This combination preserves Iowa’s culture while adapting to the sport today.
RTC: Men’s and Women’s:
Investing in both men’s and women’s RTCs is essential. Slippage on the men’s side impacts women’s wrestling, recruiting credibility, and brand reputation. RTCs help:
- Keep elite post-collegiate athletes connected
- Enhance recruiting pipelines
- Prepare athletes for international freestyle and senior competition
Learning from the UFC:
Iowa can also borrow lessons from MMA and UFC athletes—not to become an MMA gym, but to adapt training and athlete development. Key contributors could include:
- Henry Cejudo: Olympic gold, UFC champion, elite wrestling transitioning to MMA
- Aaron Pico: California HS phenom, representing modern talent pipelines
- Khabib Nurmagomedov, Arman Tsarukyan, Urijah Faber: Discipline, movement, and technical insights
These lessons cover conditioning, recovery, individualized planning, transitional grappling, and professional mindset, increasingly relevant in freestyle and NCAA wrestling.
Weight-Class Strategy - being that most of you are already talking next year (lol):
Immediate targeted focus on 133, 165 lbs and 197 lbs is necessary to stay competitive:
- 165 lbs prospects: Joey Blaze, Rademacher, Sealy, Routledge, Joy, Ryder Downey, Garvin, Scoles, Cholakyan, EJ Parco, (Riggins, D. Rhode)
- 197 lbs prospects: Rademacher, Mirasola (play with Oly RS with these 2), Shumate /Geog / Rogotzke
- Developing depth at these weights strengthens dual meet scoring, integrates elite HS talent, and prepares athletes for RTC and senior-level competition.
- 133 lbs prospects: Larkin, Sakamoto, B Davis, Ronnie Ramirez, Desmond, Fugitt, loser of Munaretto, Davis, Mills (tOSU) Nagao...
Broader Athletic Impact:
Wrestling success affects more than just the mat. Iowa’s dominance drives:
- TV placement and marketing visibility
- Recruiting for football and basketball
- Donor confidence and facility ROI
- Maintaining relevance protects Iowa’s position as Wrestletown, USA and as a flagship Big Ten program.
Iowa Wrestling is a dynasty. Period. But even dynasties face transitions. No program can stay on top forever—and that’s healthy for the sport. What matters most is preserving culture, integrity, and respect—and on that front, Iowa remains unmatched.
Culture:
The program’s culture is real. You see it celebrated with athletes like Kennedy, Arnold, Cruz, Ybarra, Jesurogas, Lee, Kem, Marinelli, Young, and Murin; in transfers like Woods, Lugo, Teske, Bailey, Williams, Franek, and the Voinovichs—who have all experienced other programs; and in incoming stars like Mocco, Bassett, Teasdale, DeLuca, etc.
Standards are high, and excellence is expected. Moments like Mo’s celebration after beating Merrill, Shumate, and Stout aren’t just fun—they reflect a shared commitment to the program’s values.
Iowa’s culture comes with tough love. The program sets clear expectations:
- Scrutinizing admissions (AJ, Downey)
- Making hard calls on departures (Gross, Mo, Teasdale)
- Holding athletes accountable for behavior (Austin and others)
Meanwhile, Iowa avoids major scandals—tradition of DUIs, sexual assaults, cover-ups, eligibility manipulations, or steroid problems—protecting its reputation and integrity.
Historical Advantage and Modern Challenges:
Iowa has long had a recruiting edge thanks to its fan base, tradition, and national reputation. Wrestlers grew up dreaming of competing in Iowa City. That legacy helped attract elite talent even before NIL deals and modern RTCs. But today, that advantage is no longer enough. Athletes can go elsewhere for more money, modern training, or alternative post-collegiate paths. Technique, athleticism, and conditioning now matter as much or than grit and toughness. To stay on top, Iowa must modernize while preserving culture.
Generational Coaches and Staying Close:
Generational coaches—like Cael Sanderson, Dan Gable, John Smith, and perhaps soon Taylor—are rare. They don’t just win; they define eras. Only one program can truly benefit from that type of leadership at a time - and a lot of things need to fall in place in right way and at the right time (the OSU job was going to Scott/Perry/Espo before the Taylor bomb dropped, see what I did there Kyle) . For other programs, including Iowa, the goal is to stay as close to that rocketship as possible. In today’s landscape, a distant second is almost indistinguishable from fifth. Recruiting, RTC presence, and culture all need to work together to minimize the gap and maintain relevance.
Coaching Evolution:
Supporting Tom, Terry, Ryan, Telford, and D. Dennis doesn’t mean staying static. Iowa should strategically supplement the staff—or adjust a few positions—with experts who bring something new: technical innovation, freestyle knowledge, or modern athlete development. Potential additions include:
- Doug Schwab (top priority): Modernized version of Tom and Terry with proven success
- Brian Snyder, Robie, Pritzlaff, Dresser, Reader, Ben Askren: Freestyle and system-building expertise
- Bo Nickal, Jason Nolf, K. Snyder, Burroughs, Cary Kolat: Modern technique and developmental vision
- Tim Hartung, Strittmatter, Ironside, St. John, Mike Poeta, Brent Metcalf, Troy Nickerson, Cliff Moore, J. McGinness: Culture carriers and elite mentors
- No Dake.
This combination preserves Iowa’s culture while adapting to the sport today.
RTC: Men’s and Women’s:
Investing in both men’s and women’s RTCs is essential. Slippage on the men’s side impacts women’s wrestling, recruiting credibility, and brand reputation. RTCs help:
- Keep elite post-collegiate athletes connected
- Enhance recruiting pipelines
- Prepare athletes for international freestyle and senior competition
Learning from the UFC:
Iowa can also borrow lessons from MMA and UFC athletes—not to become an MMA gym, but to adapt training and athlete development. Key contributors could include:
- Henry Cejudo: Olympic gold, UFC champion, elite wrestling transitioning to MMA
- Aaron Pico: California HS phenom, representing modern talent pipelines
- Khabib Nurmagomedov, Arman Tsarukyan, Urijah Faber: Discipline, movement, and technical insights
These lessons cover conditioning, recovery, individualized planning, transitional grappling, and professional mindset, increasingly relevant in freestyle and NCAA wrestling.
Weight-Class Strategy - being that most of you are already talking next year (lol):
Immediate targeted focus on 133, 165 lbs and 197 lbs is necessary to stay competitive:
- 165 lbs prospects: Joey Blaze, Rademacher, Sealy, Routledge, Joy, Ryder Downey, Garvin, Scoles, Cholakyan, EJ Parco, (Riggins, D. Rhode)
- 197 lbs prospects: Rademacher, Mirasola (play with Oly RS with these 2), Shumate /Geog / Rogotzke
- Developing depth at these weights strengthens dual meet scoring, integrates elite HS talent, and prepares athletes for RTC and senior-level competition.
- 133 lbs prospects: Larkin, Sakamoto, B Davis, Ronnie Ramirez, Desmond, Fugitt, loser of Munaretto, Davis, Mills (tOSU) Nagao...
Broader Athletic Impact:
Wrestling success affects more than just the mat. Iowa’s dominance drives:
- TV placement and marketing visibility
- Recruiting for football and basketball
- Donor confidence and facility ROI
- Maintaining relevance protects Iowa’s position as Wrestletown, USA and as a flagship Big Ten program.
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Kerk and messenbrink were transfers. I didn't include transfers in Iowa numbers either when I gave you theirs earlier in the thread.
Edit: Duke and Blaze are listed on this, those are this years guys. Jayden James will count for this next year.
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Oh come on Mr fancy pants you had to include tables?! In all seriousness,thank you for the information! One guy I'm wondering if counts for this you missed, Carson Kuhn I think it was. Had wrestled at Boise State until it's program shuttered and came to Penn State for a forgettable season. Not sure if it was 2018 and later or not.You are not making your case any stronger.
First, "this is only p4P" is not an objection. It is the fact of the way all of this is measured and talked about. But, whatever.
On the transfer side, Iowa has brought in two top 10 recruits (Teemer #8, #10 Peterson) to PSU's two (Kerkvliet #1, Welsh #3).
Iowa has done it with volume after that. I found 15 transfers since it became a thing (~2018). For PSU I found 8. Maybe I have missed some. Not a lot. Maybe some.
What each has done with them differs.
From 19 completed transfer seasons so far Iowa has gotten 11 AAs with 1 of those being a championship.
From 14 completed transfer seasons so far PSU has gotten 10 AAs with 3 of those being a championship.
This year PSU looks likely to add 2 more AA from Mesenbrink and Welsh. Iowa is likely to add 1 more from Caliendo, and has a shot at adding 2 more from Williams and Peterson, and has a long shot at adding 1 more from Bailey.
So your 10-1 goes in the opposite direction for transfers. Iowa has been the volume player in that market for the past 7 years.
Edit: I included the partial seasons of Endene and Nagao as full seasons assuming neither returns or AAs.
Edit Edit: I included a season for Peterson. Oops. Make it 19 completed seasons for Iowa.
Edit Edit Edit: Added Konel and Welsh
Is it really his fault that you don't know any tough people? I'm guessing anyone tougher than you would have already beat you to death to shut you up. It is a case of you being the toughest and loudest person you know. Take your win.
Appears that comment hit a little too close to home for MSU, lol.
Don't worry MSU, we know you are the Loudest AND Toughest guy on the forum
Don't worry MSU, we know you are the Loudest AND Toughest guy on the forum
Good catch. I was wearing fancy pants yesterday. Oh, and the Kuhn thing too, even if a shuddered program doesn't quite fit the spirit of his rant. I missed Teske for Iowa too.
It’s amazing that a guy with such a rich and storied life has all the time to be on the internet arguing with clouds the way you do.
I get that. I read a story about how Cael Sanderson ended up at Penn State and I believe Tom Brand said this will change the wrestling landscape or something like that after he heard the news.
He appeared to understand how big it was. As a Penn State fan I was just kind of hopeful they'd get better. I don't think some people quite understood how good Sanderson would recruit and what he was up to.
He totally changed the way a program is run from top to bottom .
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I agree with much of your well thought out post. Iowa is a dynasty and your clear path to improving the program would work if the funds and intent were there. The problem with some of the names on the list is they are people who have left the bubble and have been treated terrible by this staff since doing so. Metcalf,Schwab,JBO,Gilman,DSJ,Big Tony,Ramos, and many more former Hawkeyes feel disrespected by the Brands and the cult like bubble of us against the world. It is time for new leadership to preserve and restore the proud program. Dan Gable didn't burn the bridges as guys moved on like we see happening now.
Lmfao. You do realize MSU got pretty heavy into MMA when I was there, right? And I most certainly wasn’t talking about myself. I love that I bother some of you so much. I have simply been around a ton of people that were mean as hell and had hair triggers. Saying the loudest is automatically the weakest is incredibly stupid and I don’t want anyone to ever be dumb enough to truly believe that and test that theory to their detriment.
Sorry about your luck. You can continue to incessantly whine and I will make sure to incessantly annoy you. A match made in heaven!
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Agreed. That has been as big of a complaint of mine as any. These guys should be ambassadors for Iowa and instead they are out there bad mouthing Iowa. It is just not a good look and doesn't help us in any way.
You are doing a fine job, but much seems to be missing. Go back and do ALL the kids they brought in at 125. We can start there, now again, you are ONLY talking about p4p which does NOT tell the whole story. When I looked at what the GR* Krailure had brought in JUST at 125, it was UNBELIEVABLE!!! There was how many #1s at the weight, TOP kids at the weight, AA transfers at the weight...... went ON and ON!!!
He has ALSO recruited OVER AAs and/or TOP kids such as with ButterDean and the KerKIN!!!! NO other skool in the HISTORY that I have seen, has had that luxury EVER!!!! In other words, Krailure had a TOP Heavy( one of the tuffest weights to fill} then goes out and steals the KerKin!!! He also did it with ButterDean at 197(was 184 till he got to F*** st) (but you don,t want to add the PEDs to the conversation) How many of there wrestlers went up weights and won again?????
More then ALL other teams combined maybe!!!! Hell look at the KerKin, how is he doing internationally by the way???? Think we will see him in the OLYMPICS???? LOL, him and brooks, and salad kid and brown and macantoshApple, and BoKnowSheet, and RuthoffTheDrunkRedNose and Babblin
AMAZING- all these kids and how many INTERNATIONAL medals????? WOW!!!!! Don't forget they have the B1Gest BEST club team!!! Can't figure out why they ALL came from other skools?????? Hmmmmm??????
Gonna be real interesting to see how these younger kids pan out???? My guess is, the GR8 Krailure with F*CK them TWOOOOO!!!! and lets not forget the BAD attention he has now brought to USA wrestling because of failed drug test and crazy prescription claims!!!!
OBVIOUSLY some kind of issue when you are losing some of your very best who are going on to coach at other places. The thing is, LOOK at how many of the IOWA guys ARE coaching!!! It is a B1G number and growing every year!!! That says SOMETHING about the WRESTLING being taught does it not!?!??
Rest assured, I'll get you those answers when I have the time. You're not going to like them and will disagree their validity but I enjoy the research. As far as any of the other stuff, I think you're mistaking me for other posters. I'm interested in the data and stats.
How does it not? Have to have maybe 10-12 former wrestlers coaching and MANY at D1 skools!!!
OK, sounds good, when you get a chance you get the kids recruited at 125 and we can debate some more!
I think its a big part of how the Brands motivate themselves thus how they've motivated the team over the years. It's not uncommon in sports, hell we hear it from nfl teams all the time. It's us against the world.
I do think TnT have overused and overdone it though... what did they expect every former wrestler with coaching aspirations should just stay somehow attached to the Iowa program forever? Hell they both left for other opportunities, were they traitors?
Honestly the more I think about it, I don't even think it's that... I think it's just how they motivate themselves to still go to battle in their late 50s... Metcalf/Ramos/St John/Schwab/Kemerer/Gilman etc... are all traitors and the enemy and must be defeated.
I'm genuinely curious about the 'No Dake' mention. He doesn't have head coaching experience, but neither did Taylor, whose entry into the OSU universe has been a major boost for that program and community on many different accounts. I wouldn't necessarily say that Dake should replace the current staff. But also, I don't see why he couldn't: he's a generational talent in the NCAA; he's a multi-time world and olympic medalist; and he has spent meaningful time with the Nittany lion coaching regime. He has also shown a capacity to outdo Taylor on the mat. A master of psychological warfare. That wouldn't necessarily translate to coaching, but the storylines would be mythic to say the least, and like DT, he's the type of guy who would make an immediate impact on a program. It's impossible to predict whether a change like this would lead to multiple national titles over PSU; that said, it's difficult to imagine that he wouldn't have great success, given the right support. I say this as a lifelong fan and follower of Iowa wrestling...and someone who had a couple minutes over the lunch break to hit up the message board.