Platoons

ImTheVillageIdiot

All-American
May 18, 2024
3,396
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Oweh Williams
JJ Lowe
JQ BG
MD CC
AJ Aberdeen

MM, TP, TN

Could this with tweaking be an offensive vs defensive platoon?

I am a fan of platoons.
I love platoons as well as long as coach believes it would keep the players happy. Nothing more deflating to the opposition than working with all your might to keep the game close and then a hockey line change comes in fresh with no drop off in talent.
 

BlueBomb

Heisman
Apr 3, 2009
10,675
19,490
103
I most definitely do not like platoons, although they will be necessary early in the season as Pope works things out.

By the time late February rolls around, it's best to be down to an 8-man rotation, give or take one.

JMO
 

FLBBNFAN

Senior
Mar 25, 2025
488
969
93
I like platooning, and I think Cal shitting all over it to cover his *** for blowing it made a lot of our fanbase say it’s bad. Pope wants a team that goes balls out 40 minutes. I’d say he has one.
I agree, he's going 10 deep easy. He wants to play up tempo and wear the other team down . You need a good and talented bench to do that and we have that in spades.
 

MdWIldcat55

Heisman
Dec 9, 2007
21,093
83,592
113
In the spring of 1863, Abraham Lincoln visited the Army of the Potomac in its "winter quarters" at Falmouth, Virginia. The army had endured a series of lost battles and missed opportunities while led by timid or incompetent commanders who could never take advantage of numerical superiority. During that meeting, Lincoln said to the new commander in chief, Gen. Joseph Hooker, "in the next fight, use all your men."

There it is: It doesn't have to be platoons, necessarily, just "use all your men" -- bring to bear the talent of a deep, experienced team. I think Pope not only gets this, but recruited a team with that exact goal in mind. I predict we see rapid fire substitutions to take advantage of match-ups and roster weaknesses in opponents, while grinding them down.

(Hooker would not heed that advice, by the way, and would be roundly savaged in early May, 1983, by a much smaller Confederate army led by Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson at the Battle of Chancellorsville.)
 

bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
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These guys will roll in and out of the lineup every 6-7 minutes. Looking for the right guys to play together for the best analysis of production.
This.

The problem with platoons is if the same five play together all the time, when you have injuries or foul trouble the chemistry is disrupted. I like playing lots of guys, but mixing them up to see which combinations work best for each game. Like if we need more ball handlers, put Lowe, Johnson, and Aberdeen on the floor together. If we need more rebounding, play Dioubate, Garrison, and Quaintance together. Need more shooting put Chandler, Williams, and Jelavic on the floor together.

Pitino did this masterfully with the 96 team, so I think this is Pope’s philosophy as well.
 

UK_BlueBlood

All-American
May 21, 2002
4,248
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103
If by “platoon” we’re talking about subbing 5 in and 5 out every 4 minutes, I doubt Pope will ever do that.

But having the depth and pieces to allow the flexibility to adapt to different circumstances, parties of play, foul trouble, etc…. Yes, it’s essentially a platoon that Pope can employ to manage things as needed.
 

ImTheVillageIdiot

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May 18, 2024
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If by “platoon” we’re talking about subbing 5 in and 5 out every 4 minutes, I doubt Pope will ever do that.

But having the depth and pieces to allow the flexibility to adapt to different circumstances, parties of play, foul trouble, etc…. Yes, it’s essentially a platoon that Pope can employ to manage things as needed.
Curious, why do you doubt Pope would ever do it? He did line changed multiple teams last year despite not having that much depth.
 
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LineSkiCat14

Heisman
Aug 5, 2015
38,308
59,934
113
Idk, I still wonder even if Poythress was healthy for Wisconsin/ND, if the platoon wouldn't have ultimately failed simply because we would inevitably take players out who should be riding the hot hand. I don't dislike the platoon by any means, and I think we saw first hand that it can absolutely throttle teams into submission. But if a team can counter it by slowing things down and being protective of the ball, then both platoon "squads" really need to be hitting.
 

UK_BlueBlood

All-American
May 21, 2002
4,248
9,117
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Curious, why do you doubt Pope would ever do it? He did line changed multiple teams last year despite not having that much depth.
I suppose I’m saying I doubt he will ever commit to the notion of making it a routine that we rotate 5 players at a time every TV timeout kind like Cal did in 2015. I believe he will be more selective in utilizing all of his pieces.
 

PoBilly

All-Conference
Mar 18, 2012
2,784
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Starters to begin season

J Lowe PG 23 mpg
O Oweh 2G 28 mpg
D Aberdeen SF 24 mpg
M Dioubate PF 20 mpg
B Garrison C 20 mpg

Backups

J Johnson PG/2G 6th man 18mpg
C Chandler PG/2G/SF 7th Man 18mpg
K Williams 2G/SF/PF 9th man 18
A Jelavic PF/C 8th Man 18 mpg
T Noah SF / 2G 10th Man 7 mpg
T Perry PG/2G 12th man 2mpg
M Moreno C 11th Man 4mpg

J Quaintance PF/C When able to come back will switch the entire set of minutes. HE will start when ready.
JQ will get 20 to 24 mpg
All the other numbers BG MD AJ will change
(MM will get 2 or 0 and TP will get 0 (break glass in case of injury or foul trouble))
 

PoBilly

All-Conference
Mar 18, 2012
2,784
4,460
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I suppose I’m saying I doubt he will ever commit to the notion of making it a routine that we rotate 5 players at a time every TV timeout kind like Cal did in 2015. I believe he will be more selective in utilizing all of his pieces.
I agree. Early on Pope will probably sub 4 in at a time after the starters 3 to 5 minutes to start the game (sort of what he did some last year). Then back and forth for the first half. 2nd half of games will be by analytics of how guys are playing that day. Hot shooters, someone really playing defense, someone driving and hitting shots at the rim and so forth.

I would say we will see 9 guys get the bulk of the minutes (which is about like platooning). There will be 4 guys left out most games. 3 are probably given (Moreno, Perry and Noah). But I think Noah does enough and gets better that he is hard to keep off the floor. So that is 2 guys that probably should be playing that will not get much run. Noah and (who/ I cannot decide).

If Chandler and Noah make a good sophomore jump then Popes job is much harder. If T Perry makes a huge jump then Pope's job will be near impossible to keep everyone happy.
 
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Cleatortoises

Heisman
Dec 24, 2018
2,977
10,468
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If by “platoon” we’re talking about subbing 5 in and 5 out every 4 minutes, I doubt Pope will ever do that.

But having the depth and pieces to allow the flexibility to adapt to different circumstances, parties of play, foul trouble, etc…. Yes, it’s essentially a platoon that Pope can employ to manage things as needed.
Yeah, he uses analytics to even figure out how many minutes a player can go full out.
With that factor, and all players differing, a straight hockey line change is not likely.
But, a lot of dudes will play.
 
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PersianCat387

Sophomore
Aug 18, 2007
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This.

The problem with platoons is if the same five play together all the time, when you have injuries or foul trouble the chemistry is disrupted. I like playing lots of guys, but mixing them up to see which combinations work best for each game. Like if we need more ball handlers, put Lowe, Johnson, and Aberdeen on the floor together. If we need more rebounding, play Dioubate, Garrison, and Quaintance together. Need more shooting put Chandler, Williams, and Jelavic on the floor together.

Pitino did this masterfully with the 96 team, so I think this is Pope’s philosophy as well.
Agreed, Pope is going to base it off of matchups and his data driven approach to peak performance management. If we can get the team to gel and build trust, there shouldn't really be many chemistry issues if he makes executive decisions to run with the hot hand later in the year having proven to the guys that his system works.
 

bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
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Yeah, he uses analytics to even figure out how many minutes a player can go full out.
With that factor, and all players differing, a straight hockey line change is not likely.
But, a lot of dudes will play.
Yup.

I figure our top 6 will get 20+ a game most games, when they are healthy and not saddled with foul trouble.

1. Oweh
2. Aberdeen
3. Lowe
4. Dioubate
5. Garrsion
6. Quaintance (when 100%)

Then the next 4 will get 10-15 minutes a game.

7. Johnson
8. Chandler
9. Williams
10. Jelavic

The bottom three will get spot minutes, unless there are a lot of injuries.

11. Moreno (will get some run while JQ is recovering)
12. Noah
13. Perry
 

Rick Honcho

All-Conference
Apr 19, 2011
1,376
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Coaches and fans like the idea of platoons. My experience has been that, absent an exhausting ‘40 minutes of hell’ defensive approach, college players generally don’t. Even in the NIL era, most college dudes still want their playing time and their stats. And the ones who don’t are generally the type of non-competitive slackers you don’t want on the roster. Reasonable minds can differ.
 

BlueBlood96Cat

All-Conference
Jan 5, 2022
2,679
4,721
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Aberdeen is more of a PG.

Lowe - Aberdeen
Johnson - Chandler
Oweh - Williams
Dioubate - Jelavic
Garrison - Quaintance/Moreno
When you put it like that it looks real nice. Ooh I hope Oweh comes back and if not I hope Pope drops another silenced bomb on BBN to replace him.
 

bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
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Coaches and fans like the idea of platoons. My experience has been that, absent an exhausting ‘40 minutes of hell’ defensive approach, college players generally don’t. Even in the NIL era, most college dudes still want their playing time and their stats. And the ones who don’t are generally the type of non-competitive slackers you don’t want on the roster. Reasonable minds can differ.
This is a good point.

The best players want to play and deserve to play, if they put the work in.

Us fans love the platoons, but it’s not a great system for players 1-5 who are use to getting to play most of the game and get into a flow.

How can you justify limiting an All-American’s minutes just so your number 10 player gets to play?

I actually think platoons would probably work better with weaker teams, maybe one without a true star player. Try to beat better teams with sheer numbers.

When players 1-5 are much better than players 6-10, it is hard to get them to buy in to a platoon. And if players 1-10 are all pretty even, and are all good, then they are probably wondering why they didn’t go to different schools where they could all play 30 minutes a game.
 
Jan 3, 2003
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I am a big supporter of platoons, in the right situation. There are both PLUSes and MINUSes to a platoon (5-in & 5-out).
1- that your "2nd 5" are all pretty good, not much worse than the 1st 5
2- that you have all the positions filled, with guys in well-defined roles
In 2015, until the Poythress injury, that was nearly the perfect situation for a platoon, and as a result they were playing Historically GREAT Defense!!! We were 1 quality player short (Lee was a weak link). But when Poy went down, that put us 2 short, so Cal left the platoon for a more traditional 8-man rotation, but often substituting 3 in together at a time.

Platoons do NOT have to be an equal 20/20 split in minutes. They could be 20/20, 22/18, 24/16, 26/14, 28/12.

I do NOT think we will reduce down to 8 guys. Pope has a history of playing a lot of guys (like the RP teams he played on did), I think he only reduced down this past year due to injuries, and this is why he is building us even deeper for next year.

But next year may be difficult to do a platoon, because multiple guys may play at multiple positions (so not well-defined roles). I think we will have 10 guys playing 10+ mpg.
 
Jan 10, 2015
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Oweh ... Aberdeen
JJ ... Lowe
JQ ... BG
MD .... Williams
AJ ... CC

MM, TP, TN

Could this with tweaking be an offensive vs defensive platoon?

I am a fan of platoons.
I'm a fan of what Pitino used to do to teams in the 90's and I think Pope learned a lot from his head coach. Press you to death, shoot the 3, sub 5 more new guys, and then run your @ss out of the gym. I guess that would be close to modern day platooning!
 
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bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
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I am a big supporter of platoons, in the right situation. There are both PLUSes and MINUSes to a platoon (5-in & 5-out).
1- that your "2nd 5" are all pretty good, not much worse than the 1st 5
2- that you have all the positions filled, with guys in well-defined roles
In 2015, until the Poythress injury, that was nearly the perfect situation for a platoon, and as a result they were playing Historically GREAT Defense!!! We were 1 quality player short (Lee was a weak link). But when Poy went down, that put us 2 short, so Cal left the platoon for a more traditional 8-man rotation, but often substituting 3 in together at a time.

Platoons do NOT have to be an equal 20/20 split in minutes. They could be 20/20, 22/18, 24/16, 26/14, 28/12.

I do NOT think we will reduce down to 8 guys. Pope has a history of playing a lot of guys (like the RP teams he played on did), I think he only reduced down this past year due to injuries, and this is why he is building us even deeper for next year.

But next year may be difficult to do a platoon, because multiple guys may play at multiple positions (so not well-defined roles). I think we will have 10 guys playing 10+ mpg.
Yeah, I could see doing a 25/15 split, that way the starters still get a lot of minutes.

I still prefer mixing the lineups up. Some lineups may work better against certain opponents.

One might could play different combos every game and switch it up that way the same five do not play together all the time and everyone develops chemistry with each other.
 

Panthur

Heisman
Aug 5, 2008
9,225
12,780
0
I love our depth. If they really grow into their potential I don’t think we’re going to be wanting to take Oweh, Dioubate, and Quaintance off the floor to give the other squad clock. I think it’s more likely we’ll use a more organic sub pattern to get similar results. Have our guys just play balls to the wall and when they get winded on their individual schedules, then you replace them from our great depth. That way has more stability when guys do come out and it’s less likely to force unnecessary breaks onto guys who are hot.

I’m not opposed to platooning at all and I do think Cal was dumb to go away from it. I just don’t think it’s the greatest way to use this particular team, whose strength to me looks like the fact that we have some really bright stars supported by a cast which isn’t at their level, but is big and athletic and skilled and talented enough that you can sub out an authentically tired star without digging yourself any holes and you can also tinker a fair amount.
 

qwesley

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
17,606
23,461
0
Idk, I still wonder even if Poythress was healthy for Wisconsin/ND, if the platoon wouldn't have ultimately failed simply because we would inevitably take players out who should be riding the hot hand. I don't dislike the platoon by any means, and I think we saw first hand that it can absolutely throttle teams into submission. But if a team can counter it by slowing things down and being protective of the ball, then both platoon "squads" really need to be hitting.
We were not the same defensively once Poythress went down. Lyles was too slow and Booker got abused on switches. ND nearly got us before UW due to pnr defense.
 
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Bluegrassking

All-Conference
Jul 18, 2006
4,050
1,912
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This.

The problem with platoons is if the same five play together all the time, when you have injuries or foul trouble the chemistry is disrupted. I like playing lots of guys, but mixing them up to see which combinations work best for each game. Like if we need more ball handlers, put Lowe, Johnson, and Aberdeen on the floor together. If we need more rebounding, play Dioubate, Garrison, and Quaintance together. Need more shooting put Chandler, Williams, and Jelavic on the floor together.

Pitino did this masterfully with the 96 team, so I think this is Pope’s philosophy as well.
You are on it!

Deep rotation not hockey style line shifts.
 

kyhoward

All-Conference
Feb 3, 2018
861
1,333
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96 didnt limit it to 8.
15 won 38 straight until 🐄 cut the rotation down.
96 was the most dominant team in my fandom (since 1970). Had great depth that was super talented. Full court pressure all game. Other talented teams were beaten into submission by the defensive pressure, as much mentally as well as physically.

Next years team will have the depth in numbers but not in talent. However, I hope CMP will dial up the pressure full court using combo of man and zone pressure. We will not get fatigued but the opposition will. Really starts taking effect the last 10 minutes of the 2nd half as they “lose their legs” and mental discipline. Also, you don’t see full court pressure used as much today as in the past so the opposition has to prepare as part of their game plan.

Most players also like this style of play. A player cannot play 30-35 minutes at a fast pace offensively and applying full court pressure defensively. Easy to play 10+ players per game using this style. Let’s play Nolan’s 40 minutes of heck!
 

Wildcats1st

Heisman
Sep 16, 2017
18,949
28,911
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Oweh ... Aberdeen
JJ ... Lowe
JQ ... BG
MD .... Williams
AJ ... CC

MM, TP, TN

Could this with tweaking be an offensive vs defensive platoon?

I am a fan of platoons.
Aberdeen is coming in to push lowe at the pg spot. And no the platoon was a cal thing he can keep that with him at Arkansas or wherever he goes. If pope coaches this team like his 96 team was coached there may be big subs but he’s not going to subscribe to any specific combo of players other than those that night in that game. The platoon is the laziest way to deal with talented depth. It was a patented jvc move” how to lazy your way to success”
 

Kybluedude

Heisman
Nov 19, 2005
9,398
12,075
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I most definitely do not like platoons, although they will be necessary early in the season as Pope works things out.

By the time late February rolls around, it's best to be down to an 8-man rotation, give or take one.

JMO
No way it’s just 8 guys in this system
 
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