I will agree that North Carolina and South Carolina don't have the talent the State of Florida has but in order for them to get to that level they have to play teams like IMG and St. Thomas Aquinas. It doesn't matter if they get beat 77-0 we are not going to get respect as a state until we start playing these teams. And I have seen a couple of teams in North Carolina, especially in Charlotte. Independence had their run that were as good as anybody in the nation. On top of that, football is now about how much you can pay the kids and I can guarantee you weddington has as much money as anyone.Slow down! They don’t have a fraction of the talent of an IMG. They’re a sound program with a few good pieces. That’s it!
Props to Weddington
- Thread starter BigCharlieHayes
- Start date
Nobody is getting paid to play football in Charlotte. Or Weddington. Creek played a Nationally ranked Dutch Fork on ESPN, played Nationally ranked Buford 2 years in a row, and playing Nationally ranked Grayson this year. What do you mean start playing? It’s been happening.
Palmieri , being from South Florida, attempted to schedule those games often. It’s not that easy.
Last edited:
I think he said IMG of North Carolina, I am assuming he is saying that they get their talent from everywhere and they are more talented than everyone in the state. I don’t think he was saying they are on the level of IMG. My question is how big of a gap is Weddington and the second place 4A team whether its Butler, Indy or Grimsley.Slow down! They don’t have a fraction of the talent of an IMG. They’re a sound program with a few good pieces. That’s it!
Not even close. Situation was above coaching.Ain’t that Guy at Clayton Now?
25 Power 5 kids on the roster currently at Buford. The problem Weddington will have, Team Speed.
Here’s a question. What happens when TD’s kids graduate? Does he have more or just this son? Will he still accept custody of kids?
Are you saying team speed compared to Buford or Weddington overall doesn’t have team speed? Last season i thought Rolesville, Indy and Hughes were faster than Weddington.
Definitely don't have the Team speed as a Buford. I'm running Tempo against their defense and attacking the secondary.
Weddington's coaching is the biggest difference compared to other NC teams. Weddington is always great fundamentally. They have size and speed with an experienced coaching staff that makes great in game adjustments. I'd love a Weddington-Grayson or Weddington-Dematha game. I think Weddington is better than they get credit for.
Their coaching is great but let's not be silly. The biggest difference is they have better players.
I like to do simulation tournaments after all of the state playoff games are finished. This year I did one that consisted of four divisions based on where a team placed in the Calpreps ratings. Weddington was in Division 1. In the quarter-finals, I had four groups in the East consisting of seven teams. Weddington was in a group with Bergen Catholic from New Jersey, Freedom fron Woodbridge, Va, Washington from Masillon, OH, Oak Grove from Hattiesburg, MS, Brownsburg from Brownsburg, IN, and Archbishop Hoban from Akron, OH. Weddington was matched against each team once. If they finished in the top four of their grouping, they advanced to the semi-finals. Weddington finished 0-6. Their scores against their opponents were as follows; Archbishop Hoban, 17-21, Freedom, 34-41, Bergen Catholic 20-32, Oak Grove, 28-33 and Brownsburg 23-35. They were relatively competitive, but still finished 0-6.
So it is true that a 5-5 team from Miami, Houston, Los Angeles could probably beat weddington. What is also true is that the population in California, Texas in Florida is almost three times North Carolina. It's a pretty simple equation. If you have a parking lot with 5,000 people in it and you pick a football team, it's generally going to be better than picking out a parking lot with 500 people in it.
Might be the stupidest thing I've ever read here, and fellas that bar is real high. Now you have to count the number of schools in those states...lol
Weddington isn’t one of the strongest champions NC has produced but they did beat Dutch Fork and a really talented Grimsley team. I think Weddington can handle most 5-5 teams from major cities. Weddington is being compared to the elite teams in the nation.
My man some of those schools in Miami have an adm of under 1200 students. I think Miami central, who plays IMG type schools all the time, is a regular neighborhood public Miami school with 1300 students. Booker t Washington and northwestern might be even smaller and all these public schools probably have 15+ active nfl players. I know LA county has some big school like Long Beach Poly who has over 5k kids in the school, but some schools are similar size to our schools here and are very dominant as well.
Why do we doubt NC football so much? I've lived in GA, VA, TN, AL, FL and NC. Seen all styled of football. The best teams in NC can compete.
I remember I was 11 when I seen Chris leak às a Freshman. Those Indy teams could play with anyone. Yet NC poster always talked about how Indy was a real power
A few years ago Mallard Creek was one of the top programs in the south. Again multiple people stated they can't compete against the nation's best.
Fast forward Chambers went to VA and beat one of the top teams in VA. Butler beat Langston Huges in GA. Mallard Creek lost 10-7 to the #3 team in the nation with 25 D1 players. Weddington beat Dutch Fork.
Bottom line is football is NC is rising and is alot better than it get credit for. Guarantee if UNC or NC State could keep the top 10 best prospects in NC, they'll be a top 10 program annually
I remember I was 11 when I seen Chris leak às a Freshman. Those Indy teams could play with anyone. Yet NC poster always talked about how Indy was a real power
A few years ago Mallard Creek was one of the top programs in the south. Again multiple people stated they can't compete against the nation's best.
Fast forward Chambers went to VA and beat one of the top teams in VA. Butler beat Langston Huges in GA. Mallard Creek lost 10-7 to the #3 team in the nation with 25 D1 players. Weddington beat Dutch Fork.
Bottom line is football is NC is rising and is alot better than it get credit for. Guarantee if UNC or NC State could keep the top 10 best prospects in NC, they'll be a top 10 program annually
I think the root of people being down on NC football was when Indy lost to Elder and the streak was snapped by a not so great Cincinnati team. People were down on the football in the state and in a way felt let down despite the circumstances surrounding the loss.
A couple years later Butler had their run with nationally ranked teams that could compete with anyone even finished 3rd in the nation one year. The issue was they didn’t play anyone out of state to show what they could do.
Then Mallard Creek really made an effort to play anyone in the southeast but was getting avoided by everyone. I think that helped salvage the reputation of football here in NC and beat some really good South Carolina teams.
Chambers to their credit has tried to schedule out and play some really good out of state competition as well.
I think the tide is turning because of last season. I know Butler plays Irmo and Mallard Creek plays Grayson and Prince Avenue (GA) this season. Any other notable games vs out of state competition?
Credit to the 704 for giving NC all these national/regional power houses.
I actually think Dudley could make some noise regionally, but that's the only one I see outside of this area. I would have added Wake Forest in there not too long ago, but not now.
Agreed, while most will dismiss it as it had to happen at some point, the Indy loss in Cincinnati did alot of damage to NC credibility.
Dudley vs like say Hickory (VA) or someone from that area would be a good challenge for them as we know that VA beach metro has some quality teams from VA.
I agree but we know Indy 2007-2009 was not Indy 2001-2004. Big difference.
Indy also was put in a terrible logistical situation. The promised direct flight to Cincinnati with a plan to leave the school at 10:30am and arriving in Cincinnati at 3pm turned into leaving the school at 6am and arriving at the stadium at 9pm for a walk through after a layover and then a two hour bus ride from a central Ohio aiport. If there is one game Knotts could have back in his career it is that one...they would have rode the bus to Ohio.
I made a post earlier in this thread regarding a simulation tournament I've held for the last several years. This tournament was done after the state championships in all the states were completed. The tournament I did this year was a tournament with divisions, based on the Calpreps ratings. The prior years was open with no divisions. Each tournament consisted of 516 teams. The divisions this year were: Division 1 - 1-132, Division 2 - 133-264, Division 3 265-392 and Division 4 393-517. I took these teams and divided up into East, Southeast, Midwest and West regions.
Teams from North Carolina were in the east region, except for this season (where I set up divisions). Due to not having sufficient teams from states that are usually in the Southeast region, the North Carolina teams were in the southeast region, in Division 4 of this year's tournament.
The teams are randomly put in groups and play a round robin schedule. The top four teams from each group advance until there are 8 teams in each region in the region finals. Then the top four teams from each region advance to the one loss and done, championship round.
I'm sharing this just to show a method I've used to have some idea of how North Carolina teams would do against teams from other states.
North Carolina teams have been fairly competitive in this simulation tournament. Overall from the last four years, North Carolina teams have a record of 238-193.
Individual team records are as follows in no particular order:
Weddington 10-24
Hough 52-21 - Hough was in division 4 for this past season and lost to Ware County from Waycross, GA, in the national semi-finals 28-21.
Charlotte Catholic 5-8
Butler 17-11
Grimsley 25-24
Myers Park 10-4
Chambers 55-31
Cardinal Gibbons 15-13
Mount Tabor 9-5
East Forsyth 27-17
Providence Day 10-11
New Bern 4-8
Hoggard 1-5
Independence 1-5
Hoggard and Independence were in Division 4, Southeast region of this year's tournament.
*Note - Richmond Senior, Charlotte Christian and Wake Forest were included in results for one season that was deleted in error.
Last edited:
Man I like to talk High Scool football but you are taking it to an entirely different level of what ifs.
Driving through the area as much as I have, the bus ride there isn’t too bad of a drive.
The important details of what happened get ignored. The headline is was the streak was snapped. I remember the boards were on fire that Saturday night. I remember the trash talk was “Independence got beat by an average Cincinnati team”. Brutal.
I would like to see Dudley and Grimsley play some out of state competition. I don’t understand why Grimsley won’t play a tougher schedule in relation to their talent.
You have to remember that for many years Grimsley was a doormat, so now that they are above average, they are settled on taking years of frustration out on inferior competition in non-conference. They won't schedule anyone better than them inside the confines of NC, they for sure won't play anyone from outside of the state. If they do, a loss would expose what's sold to all the players who live outside of their district, which is that they are elite and a national power. Which just isn't the case. The past 3 years, they can't even beat teams in our own state (without Page players leading their offense), how are they supposed to hang with competitive teams from outside of NC?
Poor ole Greensboro Senior can't even schedule Dudley if they wanted to. Too many years of disrespect and severed ties. Dudley won't even pick up the phone from them anymore.
This doesn’t warrant a response, but I would seek a cure. You are suffering from GDS - Grimsley Derangement Syndrome.
I think Grimsley is hampered by the 10 game cap on games while playing in an 8 team conference. That leaves three non-conf games: Tabor and Reagan from nearby Winston-Salem with good gates($), and Rolesville (Raleigh). Southern Virginia is the only plausible region for an out of state powerhouse. GW Danville has good history but don’t represent better competition for the Whirlies. Page had a two year with Highland Tech but that is long trip.
Whirlies have reached the Final 4 in four of the last five years and the Finals twice, winning one. They have not lost in the regular season since 2019. Junior QB is #1 player NATIONALLY for ‘26. The Whirlies don’t need out of state competition to validate their program.
Grimsley knows where the Charlotte area schools look when identifying their primary obstacle to a chip outside their outstanding HS football region.
EXTRA CREDIT: What is only team in NC that has beaten Hough2), Weddington, Catholic, Butler, Independence, Mooresville, Sun Valley, Cox Mill and North Meck in the past four years?
Whirlies have reached the Final 4 in four of the last five years and the Finals twice, winning one. They have not lost in the regular season since 2019. Junior QB is #1 player NATIONALLY for ‘26. The Whirlies don’t need out of state competition to validate their program.
Grimsley knows where the Charlotte area schools look when identifying their primary obstacle to a chip outside their outstanding HS football region.
EXTRA CREDIT: What is only team in NC that has beaten Hough2), Weddington, Catholic, Butler, Independence, Mooresville, Sun Valley, Cox Mill and North Meck in the past four years?
At this point it is not about validation but taking the program up a very small level. One state title is special but making a run of two or three in a row is greatness. A bit tougher competition could be the key. The next two years maybe the difference maker even without the scheduling change. 2025 will be the new classifications so at that time state titles are not as much of the barometer for many schools.
He would want RC 97 back too. Think RC 97 more so than Elder IMHO. Then SV 91, RC 08. Those were just inexplicable losses. You know you are the GOAT when people remember your losses more so than your wins.
Indy went with Carrothers at QB, and Devonte Holloman left really hurting Indy. Carrothers was a beast but just couldn't win the big game. Very surprising given Indy's dominance during that time frame. Also remember in 07 Indy had gotten Rod Chisolm from WC and was expected to easily run the table by many. But most football guys that really watched Indy knew that in 06 Indy struggled with WC, Providence, MP, and Butler regular season and the defense was the culprit. In the 06 ships really thought that JH Rose and WC(4A) were better teams than Indy/Riverside(4AA) at ship time. JH Rose was super dominate and would have beaten Indy. WC/Rose both would have beaten Riverside easily IMHO.
07 So with a dominating win over Riverside, an undefeated season, bringing in Chisolm, and Carrothers as big time transfers most folks assumed 07 was a wrap. Indy was rated very high nationally preseason. But those that knew QC football knew Indy would struggle some as the talent level was not the same. WC and Butler were absolutely loaded in 07 and Indy struggled in those games. Had Chisolm stayed at WC they beat Indy in the playoffs. Kyle Rudolph proved to be the best player in the Elder game and it exposed Indy pass defense.
08 Indy ran into the Jamar Bryant split back read option buzzsaw. Despite early season losses this may have been one of RC best teams ever on the field. Absolutely unstoppable in the playoffs.
09 Indy was good, but we knew from the MC game early that the tied had changed. Indy Lost to Butler 2x in the same season. The only other time thats happened to Knotts was in 97/98 to RC and all 3 teams won the state ship. To understand how fragile 09 was you have to look at 10.
10 Indy blown out by MC, WC early. Then lost 4 conference games before getting obliterated by Butler to end the season. Indy 06-09 was not nearly like the 2000 to 2004 teams.
I think you’re missing the point. We are talking about NC football as a collective and why it’s view negatively in the past but somewhat turning the corner as of late.
Grimsley is probably the most talented or at least top two in the state in regard to talent can help improve the reputation and they make the choice to play lesser opposition.
In regard to your extra credit, Grimsley was overall more talented than the teams you beat for the most part. Hough you can make an argument. Not sure how that helps in this discussion but you can have it.
Hopefully new conferences will be more competitive and smaller in 2025 with leverage to play outside opponents. Competition makes you better, no doubt. We can hope Page becomes competitive again!
2005-2006 Indy were good teams but NOT great. Thought 2005 was Knotts' best coaching job ever with 2021 and 2023 being in the mix.
2006 Rose was not that dominate but better than their 2005 squad which many think was their best team.
Think 2006 Indy OL would have pushed Rose D down the field and controlled the game. Also, thought Rose would have struggled with the passing game a bit. Rose would have been able to run the ball but just did not think they were as good as Indy. Nowhere near as athletic on the lines or front seven and DBs would have struggled with the matchups. Take away the fumble at the goal line to end the first half and WC is in it to win it. Not to mention the issues in the hotel the night before.
I think the 1997 Richmond game is his number one along with New Bern in 2007. Those two games were a lot of coaching. 1997 kept going for the big play and 2007 end of half clock management got them. Not to mention 2007 the two best players were on the sideline with injuries. Chisholm from the prior week and the DL took an illegal double team high low on the first play of the game.
South View in 1991 was terrible field conditions. Knuckles, about as good as any have been, was bottled up. Think this was his second best team at WC behind 1997.
2008 Indy lost six starters from the first practice to the last game. Four played in college including one in the NFL and one on several practice squads after being a two time FCS AA. (Another was a college level player but grades were the issues.) One was playing by the end of the season but could not use their dominant hand. Indy got stopped on fourth and goal from the one on a Carrothers keeper up the middle that set the tone. Also, fumbled a punt on about the Richmond 35. This team had a chance to be special but personalities and lost players were the major culprits.
2009 was not a very good team. The offensive line did not have much size unlike the 2001-2006 Indy teams. Thought they did good to finsh with what they had. Could have easily lost to MC, RH SPe, and Providence.
Butler was better than the victory spreads. Remember, Butler was up big in the pre-pay only tickets regular season game at Indy. Indy fumbles the last play of the half going in for a score and Butler nearly returned it for a TD. Unreal Indy had the opportunity to tie near the end.
2010 was the first year of no TK. Should have been much better record. MC was much better but a couple of self inflicted mistakes were huge. RH SPe, Vance/Chambers, SM, and MP could all have been Indy wins. Butler decimated them.
That's the thing... Grimsley (in my opinion) is more worried about trying to win a state championship, that they don't really care about putting on the for state. A loss against a better program would hinder their progress. The only thing that I can think of, is that they just want to win it all, and don't care about anything else. It's just a mission to try and get closer to Page's 5 titles in the modern era. Think about it. They haven't had a dominating run where they beat the best teams in the state and win it all in a full season with a full playoffs against the best. A run that would put them in the top 10 or 25 nationally in all the polls (like Page did in 2011). And Page scheduled teams like Butler and Highland Springs, Va. shortly after. Maybe they don't have the name recognition to schedule against bigger programs??