If I understand his argument, he is saying that you have to discount Athan's stats because that same year one of his wide receivers was ranked in the top 100 statistically, and GW didn't have a top 100 receiver. That's circular logic and that statement by itself means nothing. That's like saying Mike Teel wasn't that good because he had two 1,000 yard receivers to throw to. Those two receivers don't get 1k yards each if Teel isn't good.
FB Recruiting Rutgers Football lands Minnesota QB Athan Kaliakmanis and WR Dino Kaliakmanis
- Thread starter Richie O
- Start date
Ok Mr. “Qb Eyes”. Guess your vision is better than all the college coaches that offered Gavin, Elite 11 evaluators, Greg, Sean, Kirk and opposing BIG coaches. Your mystic powers from the 1960s knows when they see a “real” qb and bygoneit you see it now with a qb that ran away from comp at a fellow BIG school to come and save the position for good ‘Ole RU.Yeah don’t think so, incumbent is a funny word.
I trust my eyesin this case. I know a quarterback when I see one, been watching quarterbacks since 1969.
Also had the pleasure of coaching young Quarterbacks.
The transfer isn’t a world beater, however at least he is a QB
We now have a QB on the roster.
Hopefully GW does himself and the team a favor and moves to receiver. I have zero respect for your opinion, if you are defending Wimsatt, or arguing he can become one, You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Sorry.
Save it. The guy coming in has to compete and will win the job over Gavin if he’s consistently better. Performance will be charted and a starter will or will not be named at the end of spring camp. If not it will be determined over the summer. The loser of the competition has to take it like a big boy whether you’ve been with the program or just came in.
My money is on Gavin to either win the starting position or stay with the program as a second string if he loses out. Athan will either win it, lose it and be a supportive backup or transfer out again because he lost the comp.
May the best qb win.
GO RU
Sure, he was a top recruit but a clear bust as a college QB. How can you overlook his being THE lowest rated FBS passer ?
The team is woefully one-dimensional entirely due to him. With him, they can't even risk 3rd and long passes to the marker. Is there a way to look up what RU's 3rd and 5+ first down conversion rate is ? I'd bet the lowest in the country.
He started every game. They're bringing in who they could get, and it sounds like a good one, a little bit after 2 QB's entered the portal. What really happened I have no idea.
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How can you be so blinded by the fact that RU had one of the lowest performing wr corp in the BIG and don’t get me started on the TE position [nothing worth mentioning]? If Gavin has 4-5 completions more per game he’s in the 53-55 % range. Are you the. still bitching about Gavin being a bust? Probably since you’re complaining about the 2,232 yds that Gavin accomplished with a RU team that just won its bowl game and finished over .500 for the first time in a decade.
Listen, the standards have gone up for RU and most of us like it but you make it sound like RU was a high performing qb away from winning the BIG East.
Get a grip. There’s viable comp now. Better programs have little dropoff between the 1st and 2nd strings. I would argue that the qb room hasn’t been as strong since my days at RU when Lucas and Fortay were going at it for playing time.
May the best qb win.
GO RU
Here’s an interesting way to look at it: if we were bringing in Gavin as a transfer after his performance the past 2 years, would you be super pumped? If the answer is anything short of yes, you should be on board with bringing in AK to compete for the position.
This article does a nice tale of the tape along with pointing out some clarifications:
This quote really stood out to me:
“Both played under head coaches with similar philosophies: Not only does Minnesota coach P.J. Fleck emulate multiple slogans from Rutgers coach Greg Schiano, but he also shares a run-first, risk-adverse offensive philosophy. The Scarlet Knights ran the ball on 61.9% of their plays last season — the eighth-highest rate in FBS football, per TeamRankings — while Minnesota ran it on 60.3% of its plays, good for 13th nationally. Under Ciarrocca in 2022, the Golden Gophers ran it 66% of the time, the highest rate of any team outside of the three academy schools that run the triple option.”
Whoever wins job don’t think Kirk changes his run heavy perspective on play calling.
GO RU
This quote really stood out to me:
“Both played under head coaches with similar philosophies: Not only does Minnesota coach P.J. Fleck emulate multiple slogans from Rutgers coach Greg Schiano, but he also shares a run-first, risk-adverse offensive philosophy. The Scarlet Knights ran the ball on 61.9% of their plays last season — the eighth-highest rate in FBS football, per TeamRankings — while Minnesota ran it on 60.3% of its plays, good for 13th nationally. Under Ciarrocca in 2022, the Golden Gophers ran it 66% of the time, the highest rate of any team outside of the three academy schools that run the triple option.”
Whoever wins job don’t think Kirk changes his run heavy perspective on play calling.
GO RU
4-5 more completions a game would’ve been huge. What are you talking about?
Beyond this, I don’t see how you can blame the WR corp for Gavin’s weak pass performance against Temple and Wagner. For perspective, Sheppard was 2 for 2 in the Wagner game. Last year Evan was 10 for 12 against Wagner. Langhan was 1 for 1. Bottom line is only throwing 63% against Wagner really really sucks and means you are just plain not accurate. Last year Gavin was 4 of 12 against them and a pick. This is a glorified HS game we’re talking about. Even as a true frosh that output is a huge huge red flag. Against Delaware (a better FCS team), Cole Snyder was 2 for 2. NV was 21 for 26 for 323 yards. Lighting it up against an FCS team should be a given for any QB. When that’s not the case you cannot blame wide outs for poor accuracy.
He went 7-15 for 80 yards no TD's and a pick vs Iowa. Which was the 3rd game after PSU. Game before Iowa he was 7-13 for 64 yards, no td's. So I'm not seeing progressive improvement.
Even the bowl game, 7-9, but only 80 yards. No TD's. Split time with the other Minny QB. Which isn't a bad game, but it's not something I'd point to as impressive play.
For the season he threw all of 3 TD's, compared to 4 INT's.
Now the Wisconsin game is one we can look to and say, that is a promising stat line in a victory vs a legit opponent. But the rest of his freshman season is not good. Highlighted by 1TD and 4 int's.
Not ragging on him, I think it's a pretty decent add, I think he does have some potential, competition(and depth) at the position was definitely needed. But the narrative that he had a good season with KC, and then fell off after KC came to RU? I'm not seeing that in the stats.
He’s the reason the WRs were nearly useless.
You compare them to other Big10 receivers. Tell me about Nebraska receivers. Iowa receivers. Purdue receivers. Michigan State receivers. Are our guys the worst of them all ?
Even more relevant, are our guys the worst in all of FBS ? Worse than UConn ? Wyoming ? Fresno ? Arkansas State ? Southern ? Florida A & M ?
Because yes, GW was the worst passer in all of FBS, even compared to QBs on teams with far weaker WRs than we have.
That’s all him.
Definitely agree we will still be run heavy. But if we get better play out of the position, we will be less run heavy then we were this season. Pretty confident in that.
Yea we’d all hope for better from the portal but this is as far as GS would go without jeopardizing GW’s predetermined QB1 promise. It doesn’t move the needle much, but it’s better than nothing
Except that same small and weak WR housed a long TD vs Michigan.The WRs are often ranked by yards in a game.
For good WRs those yards come on long passes and yards after the catch.
RU has minimal deep passing and not many yards after a catch.
RU's best WR (500 yds 3 TDs) often falls down after a catch or gets brought down quick.
These are the "little things" people often miss in RU passing
Falldown...
Falldown....
Falldown...
No contested receptions or YACs from small/weak WRs
Dremel is just fine as slot receiver…especially if you don’t have a dangerous pass catching TE.The lack of an explosive WR on the outside has been obvious since Melton left.
And isn't interesting that when we hit that WR in stride he was able to crease the defense as opposed to being forced to throttle down, leap, reach back, etc., which often robbed him of his advantage.Except that same small and weak WR housed a long TD vs Michigan.
Perfect throw, catch and run vs. Michigan. Dremel is more quick than fast but if he has an opening he sure seems tough for DB’s to turn and catch from behind.
He was a redshirt frosh who took zero snaps the prior season. Thrust into action against 2 back to back ranked teams. After those two games he went a combined 59.0% the rest of the season against all major conference schools. Including strong performances in his last two outings (Wisky and Cuse bowl game).
Guess how many times in his career Gavin matched or exceeded this output that your calling “not promising”? I’ll include Wagner (which isn’t really fair because we’re not including Athan’s 3 for 3 showing against Western Illinois). He broke 59% in 2 games over 2 season - Wagner and PSU.
Except that same small and weak WR housed a long TD vs Michigan.
The lack of an explosive WR on the outside has been obvious since Melton left.
Dremmel has good hands and being a petite WR is an advantage in some areas of the zone/field. A starter will always have some assorted flash plays (and Wimsatt had an 80 yd TD run). I like Dremmel for what he is - a possession/slot receiver. Gavin like his going to Dremmel across the field where he can see him (he cant see him long) for modest yards. After September Dremmel had 0 TDs.
Alas he cant work long and he's lint to B1G DBs as far as contested throws go. Deep balls are about speed and contested throws. If a WR cant outrun a DB he better be ready to fight/leap for catches and RU just cant do that consistently. D3 is full of little guys with hands.
Imagine being a top QB in the portal and seeing RU's top WR is undersized and has total of 500 yds and 3 TDs in 5 years. Nobody good is coming for that. Truth is that despite interesting stats and such, RU and Minnesota's passing games are both weak bottom dwellers. Debating over them is like picking the best swimmer between two jellyfish near the Titanic.
My view of Wimst was that he was raw but young and with ability. First time I saw his HS tape I saw how good a runner he was. The first video of him throwing in practice I saw how rough his passing was (I was pounced on for saying that at the time). At RU he isn't used running as much as he could be, and thats typical GS who really doesn't like QBs running too much aside from scrambles. Wimst will have acres of open field before him on a failing pass play and yet he wont scoot (not his fault). I think he probably better next year and could even surprise people (spesh if GS taks the electric collar off)
Passing Offense = Tweedledum Vs Tweedledee
Dremmel has good hands and being a petite WR is an advantage in some areas of the zone/field. A starter will always have some assorted flash plays (and Wimsatt had an 80 yd TD run). I like Dremmel for what he is - a possession/slot receiver. Gavin like his going to Dremmel across the field where he can see him (he cant see him long) for modest yards. After September Dremmel had 0 TDs.
Alas he cant work long and he's lint to B1G DBs as far as contested throws go. Deep balls are about speed and contested throws. If a WR cant outrun a DB he better be ready to fight/leap for catches and RU just cant do that consistently. D3 is full of little guys with hands.
Imagine being a top QB in the portal and seeing RU's top WR is undersized and has total of 500 yds and 3 TDs in 5 years. Nobody good is coming for that. Truth is that despite interesting stats and such, RU and Minnesota's passing games are both weak bottom dwellers. Debating over them is like picking the best swimmer between two jellyfish near the Titanic.
My view of Wimst was that he was raw but young and with ability. First time I saw his HS tape I saw how good a runner he was. The first video of him throwing in practice I saw how rough his passing was (I was pounced on for saying that at the time). At RU he isn't used running as much as he could be, and thats typical GS who really doesn't like QBs running too much aside from scrambles. Wimst will have acres of open field before him on a failing pass play and yet he wont scoot (not his fault). I think he probably better next year and could even surprise people (spesh if GS taks the electric collar off)
Passing Offense = Tweedledum Vs Tweedledee
KC developed Flacco at UDel. At RU, he was WR coach to Britt and Underwood. At Western Michigan, he helped make Corey Davis into a 1300 yd receiving season star. He knows how to coach football and it’s a fallacy that he doesn’t want to throw the ball, etc.
Here’s the open secret: we don’t throw the ball because our coaches don’t believe that we have a QB who can do it. That’s why we just went and got AK.
Most of us pray that you are right, but I am concerned that Schiano prefers the low risk playcalling mix we saw this year and will have GW do the same next year.
Dremmel has good hands and being a petite WR is an advantage in some areas of the zone/field. A starter will always have some assorted flash plays (and Wimsatt had an 80 yd TD run). I like Dremmel for what he is - a possession/slot receiver. Gavin like his going to Dremmel across the field where he can see him (he cant see him long) for modest yards. After September Dremmel had 0 TDs.
Alas he cant work long and he's lint to B1G DBs as far as contested throws go. Deep balls are about speed and contested throws. If a WR cant outrun a DB he better be ready to fight/leap for catches and RU just cant do that consistently. D3 is full of little guys with hands.
Imagine being a top QB in the portal and seeing RU's top WR is undersized and has total of 500 yds and 3 TDs in 5 years. Nobody good is coming for that. Truth is that despite interesting stats and such, RU and Minnesota's passing games are both weak bottom dwellers. Debating over them is like picking the best swimmer between two jellyfish near the Titanic.
My view of Wimst was that he was raw but young and with ability. First time I saw his HS tape I saw how good a runner he was. The first video of him throwing in practice I saw how rough his passing was (I was pounced on for saying that at the time). At RU he isn't used running as much as he could be, and thats typical GS who really doesn't like QBs running too much aside from scrambles. Wimst will have acres of open field before him on a failing pass play and yet he wont scoot (not his fault). I think he probably better next year and could even surprise people (spesh if GS taks the electric collar off)
Passing Offense = Tweedledum Vs Tweedledee
No - not being able to throw consistently even against terrible teams puts Wimsatt’s passing ability in a category all of its own right now. Even Johnny Langhan as a TRUE FROSH, with a far worse OL threw more accurately in his only action against a non Power conference team (and Liberty was far better than Wagner or Temple). Langhan was 71.4% in that game.
The last really good QB we had was Teel (he got drafted late and made a roster even if he never played). He threw for over 8.5k yards in three seasons with multiple 1,000+ yard receivers.
How many of the DBs those WRs from UConn, Wyoming, Fresno, Arkansas St., Southern and Florida A&M went up against would have started in the Big 10, particularly the Big 10 East? Just a thought.
Just looking at Schiano version 1, looking at 2005 and beyond (when he actually had the team built), it's clear that this ultra conservative, allergic to the passing game, play calling is an anomaly compared to most of GS's career at RU. What could be accounting for that, I wonder?
2023 Total Passing: about 1,800
2005: About 2,800
2006: 2,100
2007: 3,300
2008: 3,500
2009: 2,500
2010: 2,300
2011: 3,100
I mean Langan did have a 166.8 rating in 2021 while completing 66.67% of his passes.
The only issue was he only threw 9 passes all season for a total of 68yds and 31 yds were on one play.
This is comical now. The Athan/Wimsatt competition can’t get here soon enough.
GO RU
What’s your opinion of AJ Surace after the first year? Will he be the starter the following year?Dremmel has good hands and being a petite WR is an advantage in some areas of the zone/field. A starter will always have some assorted flash plays (and Wimsatt had an 80 yd TD run). I like Dremmel for what he is - a possession/slot receiver. Gavin like his going to Dremmel across the field where he can see him (he cant see him long) for modest yards. After September Dremmel had 0 TDs.
Alas he cant work long and he's lint to B1G DBs as far as contested throws go. Deep balls are about speed and contested throws. If a WR cant outrun a DB he better be ready to fight/leap for catches and RU just cant do that consistently. D3 is full of little guys with hands.
Imagine being a top QB in the portal and seeing RU's top WR is undersized and has total of 500 yds and 3 TDs in 5 years. Nobody good is coming for that. Truth is that despite interesting stats and such, RU and Minnesota's passing games are both weak bottom dwellers. Debating over them is like picking the best swimmer between two jellyfish near the Titanic.
My view of Wimst was that he was raw but young and with ability. First time I saw his HS tape I saw how good a runner he was. The first video of him throwing in practice I saw how rough his passing was (I was pounced on for saying that at the time). At RU he isn't used running as much as he could be, and thats typical GS who really doesn't like QBs running too much aside from scrambles. Wimst will have acres of open field before him on a failing pass play and yet he wont scoot (not his fault). I think he probably better next year and could even surprise people (spesh if GS taks the electric collar off)
Passing Offense = Tweedledum Vs Tweedledee
Fair. But the NFL WRs and TE don't account for every year. But don't you agree that it's fair to conclude from that that GS isn't some uber conservative, run only, play caller, and that this year was more of an anomaly?
Similar stats. In those same games what were the rushing stats (as we know the rushing game opens up the passing game)? Also, what were the defensive stats (as we know, playing from behind tips of the D that a pass is coming)?
I don’t have that much free time
. Just presenting facts without add the “adjustments”. I’ll give you another fact. Minnesota was 9-4 in 2022 and RU was 4-8 in 2022.ETA rushing stats are included
I’m not sure why we’re all dancing around this issue. Gavin is a really bad QB — like the worst QB at any P5 school in the country. That doesn’t make him a bad kid, or me a hater. That’s simply what he’s put on the tape the past 2 years. And maybe AK isn’t any good either, but I’m good with trying anything to improve the position.
I never watched him. I see he took 14 visits to RU (a NJ kid) and is ranked 30th QB. Assume he is a project that will be anon for a few years at least.
Agreed. Greg will let it rip when he has the appropriate personnel. I think he’s been on record of saying that he prefers a balanced offense (50/50).
That being said in GS 1.0 he tended to shy away from going on 4th downs deep in the opponents side of the field and would prefer going for a fg or punting. I think in GS 2.0 he would adapt to being more aggressive with a stronger passing attack with an improved wr corp, a TE threat over the middle and more accuracy at the qb position.
GO RU
Ok sure but - What’s your point? He threw 9 design play isolated point in time passes. Not meaningful at all.
I’m talking about a 2019 game where Langhan threw 21 passes which is more than a meaningful sample size to assess performance in a single game against a non-power team. Gavin threw 21 and 19 passes vs Temple and Wagner this year. Langhan was much more accurate in his one outing as a frosh than Gavin was in either of these games. And it’s apples to apples. Full stop.
Irrelevant. Last is last. He’s supposed to be better than QBs on those teams. Sure, he faces better defenses than the FAMU QB but he can only be judged according to his results. He’s a terrible passer and they don’t even let him run RPO.
It’s hard to understand why he plays at all. The other QBs can’t be trusted to hand off ?
Did you see the OSU qb in the Cotton Bowl?
Over 2200 yds of production does not make you the worse P5 QB. I’m not into predictions but here’s one for you: if Gavin wins the qb comp he increases his passing and running #s and will be close to 3,000 total yds of production next season.
GO RU
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Not really. Comparing to 15-20 years ago means nothing. People change. The game changes.
Have you changed ?
Greg wants a balanced everything. Offenses should be reliable machines humming along and not sports cars driven by daredevils. Team Game U
Kirk on Gavin inaccuracy:
"I don't think that's really relevant. I think what -- offensive football is the ultimate team game, and there's 11 guys that are totally interdependent upon each other. That's why when you see really good offensive football, it's a beautiful thing to watch, but one guy is a little off here or one guy is a little off there, I mean, it can be ugly to watch, hard to watch sometimes. So I wouldn't say anything is one particular player's fault that we played a certain way or how we did it. I think that as an offensive coordinator I think one of my strengths is I look at what the strengths and weaknesses are of the players that we have and try to mold things around their strengths and limit their weaknesses. Then you also try to think about what's the whole team?..
.We don't get anything extra for having way more yards than somebody else or anything like that, but it's nice. Believe me, I'm not giving them back. But we have to score one more point than our opponent. And I wouldn't say it was -- every position, every area, everybody needs to grow for us to get to where we want to, including me and our coaching staff..But we have to score one more point than our opponent.."
Gavin "has a ton of ability. So we just need to see how he continues to grow."
He is so bad that we went from 4-8 to 7-5. We saw bad QB play in the bowl games. If he was as bad as you said, no way we win 7 games.