The idea that RU is going to be an annual, serious NC contender is a pipe dream imo. That would require an investment in resources and a selling of the soul that is simply not going to happen at RU. This program's goal should be to be in the upper level of the B1G annually and getting to a New Year's Day Bowl ..on a somewhat frequent basis. I think Wisconsin is the model RU should try to follow or get to. To think in terms of Ohio St, Alabama , FSU or USC.....that's not reality.
Rutgers potential
- Thread starter YoucancallmeRay
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PSU hasn't been a 1 this century IMO.....SUPPORT YES ON THE FIELD NO...even with their history and support/money.
Don Bosco manages to beat the Fla/Tex/Cali/Bama NATIONAL level HS teams with basically local kids.
We can become any level we want to become. "Sky's the limit" we just need to get the commitment from the entire RU community of fans, coaches, athletic dept., AD, President, administrators, gov. officials, etc. And it can be done in a relatively short period of time. Just look at Baylor, Duke, TCU, Louisville, etc. I can remember when Miami had poor to mediocre teams.
The problem right now is lack of commitment from all the above plus the cultural climate in NJ seeing big college sports as an anathema to academics. Funny how schools like Stanford, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Duke don't see it that way.
The problem right now is lack of commitment from all the above plus the cultural climate in NJ seeing big college sports as an anathema to academics. Funny how schools like Stanford, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Duke don't see it that way.
In 2006 we were a level 2 program. As well as at least two other seasons where we finished undefeated and ranked in the AP Poll. We were a solid 3 for most of our existence other than the mid 1800's and the infamous late 90's, early 2000's rebuilding years and of course right now during the flood error.
In 2006 we didn't even "win" other than the bowl.
All the 2's mentioned have either a NC or multiple conference championships.
We were 2-ish at best in 2006. I'll give you the solid overall.
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He was just using them as examples, if you look at what they do year in and year out, it is about finishing the season ranked. The Level 1 are the true elites. Level 2 is about finishing ranked and/or being in the mix for a major bowl game or championship, and 2006 meets both. IMHO.
Because it takes more than a great coach. It takes:
* A coach that will stay if Rutgers gets to a Level 2 status, which it did in 2006. Now Schiano stayed but, leaving the argument about how good a coach he was aside, you also need the following:
a) Solid support from the administration
b) Solid financial support, more than what's been given even in the last 15 years, by the boosters,
c) A media environment slightly more positive than what Nixon faced during Watergate
d) HS coaches that look at Rutgers as a 1st or 2nd choice, not someplace to be settled on. Not every 4 star in Ohio goes to Ohio State. Not every 5 star in Florida goes to Miami, UF or FSU. Not every 4 star in Texas goes to UT, A&M, Baylor or TCU. But you can be sure those schools figure prominently in every conversation those recruits have.
You don't get there with one of these components, you need all of them on a consistent basis. And that hasn't happened yet at RU.
Lol. Exaggerate much? 1994 Big Champs, 2005 and 2008 Big Co-Champs; 1982 and 1986 National Champs, and I could run down the other bowl games, ya know, Outback, Orange, Fiesta, Capital One, Sugar, and on and on, those are BCS bowls. Me thinks that is good for 1. Right now, I'd realistically say we're climbing out of 3 on the field, but still an overall 1 program.
How you throw insults at a team with a better overall and even current history than you is beyond me. It wasn't really necessary.
Hold on there Spanky. You quoted my post before even reading it. You quoted it just because you recognized a fellow psu poster being taken to task. No where in my post did I throw insults at your hollow program. How else can anyone explain your program between the period of 1969 to 1999. There I did now, Happy. I simply pointed out that he was not coming here to be constructive. Rather to reiterate how difficult a task our program will have to climb out of the hole it currently exists in. He basically stated we have a 1 in 1,107,143 chance of ever climbing out. Even if we do climb out and attain Oregon levels with a record of 147-46 since 2000 it's still questionable if we will attain psu standards. Because psu in your minds is some hallowed entity that can never be touched. Just pointing out some inaccuracies in his posts that's all. Now your gang is calling you back to the BWI dysfunctional board, time to run along Spanky.
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You guys may like this article, it talks about the sucess of the athletics program has led to growth in not just donations and income but in admissions and academics as well.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/ohio-states-new-president-tackles-football-1447893940
http://www.wsj.com/articles/ohio-states-new-president-tackles-football-1447893940
"...somethings are just more important than FB....."
Especially Rutgers football.
Has anyone ever seen a poll of New Jersey residents as to their interest in Rutgers football ?
Based on what I've seen posted on this site, I'm betting that the numbers would be shocking to many here.
Especially Rutgers football.
Has anyone ever seen a poll of New Jersey residents as to their interest in Rutgers football ?
Based on what I've seen posted on this site, I'm betting that the numbers would be shocking to many here.
I used to buy into the theory that IF Rutgers could keep the state's top players at home, all else would take care of itself and we would be a top program.
I no longer believe much about this.
First, I just don't see us being able to entice the top players to just ignore the nation's best programs knocking at their doors. Second, even if we are somehow able to get a lot of these players, will it be at the expense of not going after a lot of the nation's best players out of state. I just don't think we can say we are equal to the factory state programs like Florida. Their top 100 has to be a lot higher than NJ's top 100.
A major program not only cherry picks its own state, but lots of other state's too.
I no longer believe much about this.
First, I just don't see us being able to entice the top players to just ignore the nation's best programs knocking at their doors. Second, even if we are somehow able to get a lot of these players, will it be at the expense of not going after a lot of the nation's best players out of state. I just don't think we can say we are equal to the factory state programs like Florida. Their top 100 has to be a lot higher than NJ's top 100.
A major program not only cherry picks its own state, but lots of other state's too.
I was talking more in terms of were not willing to go too the lengths of academic cheating some FB FACTORIES in the south are...not general public interest..although i see you're point as to attitude..
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If I may speak for myself for a minute.
The reason I decided to contribute to this thread is because I see posts from some people on this board that suggest RU can become a level 1 program in 10 years. If that is really some of your fans expectations then there is never going to be a coach around long enough to build your program. I'm not suggesting Flood is the right person to lead your program but I've always felt that unless a coach loses the team, i.e. they stop listening to the message, that firing coaches just sets the program back. You can't use Michigan as an example of what's possible with a first year coach. Michigan happened because Hoke recruited at a high level for 3 years before Coach Khaki Pants took the reins. I do believe his coaching and QB guru moniker which led to the Ruddock transfer is a huge part of this years success but there was a lot of other talent in place.
Nothing in my post was inaccurate as if I remember correctly the last team to win their 1st ever national championship was the '91 Washington Huskies. And I certainly wouldn't call them a level 1. What would you say is the last team to make the leap to a level 1 program? I gave my opinion on what is will take for you guys, catching lightening in a bottle with the right coach. I have an opinion on who that could be but who do you realistically think is a coach that can come in and in <4 years have you guys fielding competitive teams against the big boys, as many of your posters put it, while also not having too much success that they move up the coaching ranks?
No where did I suggest I thought PSU was a level 1. You're implications of how I view PSU v Rutgers is on you, not me. Since 2000 I would certainly say we are no better than a level 2. I think we have things in place, are trending in the right direction, to get back to level 1 status but it's not happening overnight (or fast enough for some of our fans). 2017 is really the first year I expect our program to be at full strength and capable of reentering the level 1 talk. 3-4 years after that I think we'll know is PSU is a level 1 program again.
If you define success as becoming a level 1 program then looking at the current state of the program and prospect for the future given the hurdles many posters here cite, support from the state, university, & fanbase, I would say that you do have a 1 in 1,107,143 chance of success in the next decade. If you define success as becoming the next Baylor/TCU then I'd say that is a reasonable goal, but what do they have, lightening in the bottle coaches who are sticking around.
Ok lets analyze your post paragragh by paragraph
1st You came here to set people straight that in no shape, size or form should we believe we can have a good program in the next ten years(didn't see this in the original op where did you get this time frame?). And you never put a timeline in your 1st posts but now we have one as you try and explain your well thought out post.. Got it. So your original intention was to keep us all grounded and squash any thought of hope.
2nd What the hell do I care that Washington was the last to win their 1st ever National Championship in 91. The criteria for level 1 was winning and tradition from the original post(reading comprehension my friend)You just changed the conversation from Oregon. Why, it makes no sense unless your trying to make your point seem valid.
3rd Ah so you do admit that you believe psu is a level 1 school. And even after the bad years you have had the last few years you've only dropped them to level two. Somehow I think your just saying this to try and make a feeble point. Where deep down you still consider them a level 1 school. Hell by next year you already have them back in the conversation to be a level 1. Your words not mine. Only took psu a couple years but RU dash the thought of it ever.
4th Your original post states that becoming one of the top 15 to 20 jobs is considered level 1. So I have 1,107,142 chances to prove you wrong I'll take that bet but I might be struck by lightning first according to statistical probability. What's with this putting a timeline on it of a decade. You didn't in your 1st post. How can you change now. Or perhaps was it to try and make your point.
So basically you changed a lot of things like timeline, actual teams discussed, criteria used to establish level 1, to make it seem like it was a well thoughtful post to help us poor delusional RU fans. Nice try but you know why you came here and it wasn't to help. Why else would you try and defend yourself by changing so many things from your original post. Because basically you had no other defense.
1st You came here to set people straight that in no shape, size or form should we believe we can have a good program in the next ten years(didn't see this in the original op where did you get this time frame?). And you never put a timeline in your 1st posts but now we have one as you try and explain your well thought out post.. Got it. So your original intention was to keep us all grounded and squash any thought of hope.
2nd What the hell do I care that Washington was the last to win their 1st ever National Championship in 91. The criteria for level 1 was winning and tradition from the original post(reading comprehension my friend)You just changed the conversation from Oregon. Why, it makes no sense unless your trying to make your point seem valid.
3rd Ah so you do admit that you believe psu is a level 1 school. And even after the bad years you have had the last few years you've only dropped them to level two. Somehow I think your just saying this to try and make a feeble point. Where deep down you still consider them a level 1 school. Hell by next year you already have them back in the conversation to be a level 1. Your words not mine. Only took psu a couple years but RU dash the thought of it ever.
4th Your original post states that becoming one of the top 15 to 20 jobs is considered level 1. So I have 1,107,142 chances to prove you wrong I'll take that bet but I might be struck by lightning first according to statistical probability. What's with this putting a timeline on it of a decade. You didn't in your 1st post. How can you change now. Or perhaps was it to try and make your point.
So basically you changed a lot of things like timeline, actual teams discussed, criteria used to establish level 1, to make it seem like it was a well thoughtful post to help us poor delusional RU fans. Nice try but you know why you came here and it wasn't to help. Why else would you try and defend yourself by changing so many things from your original post. Because basically you had no other defense.
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Look, I didn't come here to have a pissing match. The time frame is in the OP and was bandied about by other posters. Regardless my point that kicking coaches to the curb after 4 years is no way to build a program, but you also need someone that stick around for more than 4 years. Again this isn't meant to say Flood should be your guy but from what I read here people expect to be competitive yesterday. That's not realistic for any school. You don't consider Baylor/TCU good? I said that was a reasonable expectation.
I'm sorry if I feel like championships are part of winning and tradition. The 5 teams listed in the OP have 14, 8, 10, 13, & 7 National Championships. As stated my original post in this thread was a cut and paste. I don't believe Oregon is a level 1 school yet, given the facilities they have entered destination jobs status and in my opinion will be the next team to win their 1st Natty. That's why I included them in my first post but it's also possible they have seen their high water mark as a program.
A. I said at best level 2.
B. PSU hasn't had losing season in the last 10 years, maybe not level 2 worthy but not too shabby.
C. (I've made this point in different threads on SN before) Since 2005/6, RU's high water mark as a program, PSU and RU have been roughly on par, yet these are PSU's bad years and RU's high water mark. This in my estimation is the biggest reason why most PSU fans won't consider RU a rival, with RU in the B1G east I think it will generally be accepted in the future but right now, not so much.
D. 2017 is not next year/season. If you are going to say words are mine can you please get them correct?
E. If you can't see PSU has a huge head start over RU then I'm not sure what to say.
Again my 1st post was a cut and paste. I'm sorry if it came off as I consider the top 15 to 20 coaching jobs to be level 1 or if you perceive that I'm adding timelines after the fact. FTR - I think there is a difference between the current destination jobs and the level 1's of college football.
If providing outside perspective doesn't add value to the conversation then I'll gladly stop posting here.