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Sam DuBose Murder

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-LEK-

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Mar 27, 2009
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It looks like he got pissed that the guy wasnt really "respecting" his authority. His first instinct was to go for the gun as the ultimate "cross the line" finisher.

Not sure why he pulled the gun in the first place. Dubose hadnt done anything objectively or subjectively harmful at that point.

I am trying to use the reasonable person test in perspective as the cop. Cant really figure out where the imminent threat of danger begins. Its in that 5 second window. Is it when the guy starts the car? Because it seems like he had a choice to pull his gun or jump back. If his gun was pulled already, why?

Just cant figure out why he shot him. I dont think he woke up saying, I am going to shoot someone today. Was the officer genuinely frightened?
 
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Bill Cosby

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May 1, 2008
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-LEK- said:
Most automatic cars in drive will accelerate by nature of being in that gear, with no foot on the accelerator.
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I guess I was just making an assumption based on the distance the car seemingly traveled in a short period of time based on the videos.

Speed of the car, timing of acceleration, were Dubose's foot was positioned, etc. will be facts that's going to come out at trial.
 
C

cat_chaser

Heisman
Sep 10, 2008
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Bill, not sure the science/physics behind it (should be interesting to hear the experts during the trial), but it appears to be obvious the car doesn't accelerate until after he was shot.

Was the car already in motion? Possibly. Could that motion have caused an accidental discharge? That would be my defense. But, the quick acceleration that put him on the ground was after the shot.
 
J

jwheat

Heisman
Aug 21, 2005
97,626
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Any man that would let an intruder wonder freely in his house when he has kids is not much of a man at all. You have a duty to protect your household not go hide in a room for twenty minutes untl the PD show up. GD what is wrong with some of you.
 
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DaBossIsBack

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Bill Cosby said:
You guys are bitching about it because he's black and was shot by a white cop.

If he was shot by a black cop, you wouldn't give a ****.

If Sam Dubose was white, you wouldn't give a ****.
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No. You clearly didn't read my post before. And you haven't been paying attention to my angle. You have already formed your opinion about why people in this thread are "bitching". I'm not bitching because it's a white cop shooting a black man. I'm even more disturbed and pissed about the white kid that got shot by a white cop in Utah. My problem is with an all powerful incompetent police force and justice system. I don't care what color they are.
 
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DaBossIsBack

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ThroughBlue said:
Any man that would let an intruder wonder freely in his house when he has kids is not much of a man at all. You have a duty to protect your household not go hide in a room for twenty minutes untl the PD show up. GD what is wrong with some of you.
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Not much of a man, be a man, man up, not man enough...these always crack me up.
 
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Bill Cosby

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Oh, ha. Ok.

DaBossIsBack said:
This is about an armed authority force that can do as they please and get away with it.
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You must have missed the part where the cop was charged with murder and the city has already taken steps to disband the UC police department.


But now that you are aware that this isn't an armed force that does as it pleases and gets away with it, I'm sure you'll be happy.
 
G

Get Buckets

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ThroughBlue said:
Any man that would let an intruder wonder freely in his house when he has kids is not much of a man at all. You have a duty to protect your household not go hide in a room for twenty minutes untl the PD show up. GD what is wrong with some of you.
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No kids, hoss.
 
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DaBossIsBack

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Bill Cosby said:
Oh, ha. Ok.



You must have missed the part where the cop was charged with murder and the city has already taken steps to disband the UC police department.


But now that you are aware that this isn't an armed force that does as it pleases and gets away with it, I'm sure you'll be happy.
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Charged and convicted are two different things.
 
J

jwheat

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Aug 21, 2005
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When someone breaks into your house with your kids at home and you hide like a scared little girl then I think that qualifies as not being much of a man. What happens when they find you? They will kill you and then do who knows what to your wife and kids. All because you are a big puss
 
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cbpointblank1979

Sophomore
Nov 28, 2005
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Bill Cosby said:
I don't understand why the video 700 WLW posted edits the video to have a slow mo replay of the shooting, which omits the portion of the video when the officer is knocked over by the car and rolling on the ground.
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The officer is knocked over after shooting the guy in the head. It looked to me like he slumped over dead, and his foot pressed the accelerator - which is why the car peeled out and straight off the road.
 
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jwheat

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No kids? Then just go hide in your safe room and let them have your stuff. Sorry I said anything. Good day, madam
 
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VT/UK Rondo

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Aug 2, 2009
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bigblueinsanity said:
Poor attempt at strawman. I never said DUI was ok. But it surely shouldnt result in an execution by police. If you cant grasp that concept, then just restrain yourself from participation. Actually, youre exactly whats wrong with this picture. Because youve been in law enforcement, you give a blanket pass to ANYTHING a fellow officer does; regardless of how wrong it is. Wrong is wrong, no matter the profession.



Theyre ticket fairies, because they use that to enforce their authority. Better candidates would be more judicious with their authority. Any decent officer wouldve handled this situation without allow this level of escalation, or just not even made the stop at all.
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No, its obvious you have an issue with authority and following the law to include something as simple as a freakin traffic stop. (see your "traffic fairy" reference).This is your platform. The incidents you love to push your disdain for the police over. Almost a million local law enforcement officers alone, doing good every day and you showcase the screwups to blanket an entire group. People are getting shot for resisting and fleeing and your whole solution is pay the police better? Yeah, throw more money at the problem and that will fix it.

I never said one time that the Officer was innocent, quiet the opposite. Police 101 that every Officer knows is YOU CANT SHOOT A FLEEING SUSPECT (see Garner v Tennessee). This Cincy guy is done. The guy in SC that shot the fleeing suspect in the back is done. Murder for them both. The Officer in California that accidently shot the guy thinking he had his tazer in hand is done. Probably just a poor decision but then again prison is full of people that made poor decisions. Thats hardly a "blanket pass" on my part and I didnt need YOUR version of predetermined play by play of the film to come to that conclusion.
 
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Get Buckets

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ThroughBlue said:
When someone breaks into your house with your kids at home and you hide like a scared little girl then I think that qualifies as not being much of a man. What happens when they find you? They will kill you and then do who knows what to your wife and kids. All because you are a big puss
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I think you already said that. Not hiding like a scared girl, just don't feel the need to kill someone if I don't have to. With no kids I'm going to put myself in the best position to survive and I'll give you a hint it's not going and seeking out the person(s) rummaging around in a dark home.
 
B

Bill Cosby

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May 1, 2008
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cbpointblank1979 said:
The officer is knocked over after shooting the guy in the head. It looked to me like he slumped over dead, and his foot pressed the accelerator - which is why the car peeled out and straight off the road.
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How does a dead guy's foot press the accelerator unless it's already on the accelerator? And was he knocked over after, or was he in the process of being knocked over when he fired the shot? The facts will be sorted out at trial.

The shooting shouldn't have happened. BUT. That doesn't mean the cop is guilty of the crime of murder under OH law.

If you listen to half the people in this thread, the cop walked up to the car. Stood there. Put his gun on the guys head and fired. There are lots of other details that go to intent and mindset, including the fact that the guy in the car was in the process of committing a crime.
 
L

-LEK-

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Bill Cosby said:
How does a dead guy's foot press the accelerator unless it's already on the accelerator? And was he knocked over after, or was he in the process of being knocked over when he fired the shot? The facts will be sorted out at trial.

The shooting shouldn't have happened. BUT. That doesn't mean the cop is guilty of the crime of murder under OH law.

If you listen to half the people in this thread, the cop walked up to the car. Stood there. Put his gun on the guys head and fired. There are lots of other details that go to intent and mindset, including the fact that the guy in the car was in the process of committing a crime.
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Where do you see the line of imminent danger for the cop? What point do you think was the moment, he thought, my life is in danger, I should pull the gun.
 
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Phil McKracken

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ThroughBlue said:
When someone breaks into your house with your kids at home and you hide like a scared little girl then I think that qualifies as not being much of a man. What happens when they find you? They will kill you and then do who knows what to your wife and kids. All because you are a big puss
Click to expand...

People that act like this on the internet, are the first people to run and hide in real life.
 
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jwheat

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Phil McKracken said:
People that act like this on the internet, are the first people to run and hide in real life.
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Admittingly I was joking a little with bucket$, but I assure you I would not hide when there is someone in my house that causes danger to my child.
 
B

Bill Cosby

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The officer is charged with:

Murder:

no person shall purposely cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another’s pregnancy; and no person shall cause the death of another as a proximate result of the offender’s committing or attempting to commit an offense of violence that is a felony of the first or second degree (Ohio Revised Code, §2903.02, 1998, available at http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903.02).

And voluntary manslaughter:

no person, while under the influence of sudden passion or in sudden fit of rage, either of which is brought on by serious provocation occasioned by the victim that is reasonably sufficient to incite the person into using deadly force, shall knowingly cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another’s pregnancy (Ohio Revised Code, §2903.03, 1996, available at http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903.03).
 
V

Violent Cuts

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Ron Mehico said:
Literally what you guys are doing (I know that was a totally random effing comparison), and I don't for the life of me know why the hell you're doing it. It doesn't need rationalized. It doesn't need an excuse. A man was shot in the head by a cop. A citizen, just like any of us. Why the hell are you guys rationalizing it?? What the hell is wrong with you guys? You can roll your eyes all you want, I'm rolling them right back at you.
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I can't speak for others, and I haven't tried to "rationalize" anything. I think what we should try to understand what drove that officer to shoot that man. I don't think he woke up that day and decided to shoot a black man. What was his mindset? Did something happen in his background? Was he mentally stable? Was he properly trained? He seemed poorly trained and scared (for no reason).

I think a better understanding of this will help officers and society in the future. But, we'll likely never know the answers to a lot of the above.
 
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*dezyDECO*

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The video I saw---> The prosecution will have a tough time getting a murder conviction.

Looks like the cop could claim the gun went off accidentally, due to the movement of the car/cop losing balance. He'd have to say his official statement was wrong, due to being all shook up about the death.

A "good" lawyer will get a hung jury.

A "great" lawyer will get the guy a not-guilty verdict.

(Though, somehow, there will be "leaks" about certain -possibly sympathetic- jurors, with their home address and family members... so, who knows?)
 
L

-LEK-

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Mar 27, 2009
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dezyDeco said:
The video I saw---> The prosecution will have a tough time getting a murder conviction.

Looks like the cop could claim the gun went off accidentally, due to the movement of the car/cop losing balance. He'd have to say his official statement was wrong, due to being all shook up about the death.

A "good" lawyer will get a hung jury.

A "great" lawyer will get the guy a not-guilty verdict.

(Though, somehow, there will be "leaks" about certain -possibly sympathetic- jurors, with their home address and family members... so, who knows?)
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I am looking for an answer here, but when was the gun drawn, but more importantly why? Trying to figure out cops mindset.
 
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cbpointblank1979

Sophomore
Nov 28, 2005
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The fact that the cop was straight up fired immediately (as opposed to being placed on unpaid leave while the investigation continued) tells me that he's almost certainly getting convicted of something. The PD, in firing him, essentially confirmed that his actions were unjustified.
 
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*dezyDECO*

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-LEK- said:
I am looking for an answer here, but when was the gun drawn, but more importantly why? Trying to figure out cops mindset.
Click to expand...


Hopefully, the cop car's dash-cam will establish the "when" of it. As to the "why"... I don't know, but I'd guess the cop got nervous when the driver's right hand went out of view/to the ignition?
 
L

-LEK-

Heisman
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You can see his hands gestering about 30 seconds before. I think this will be key to the cops mindset.
 
D

*dezyDECO*

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-LEK- said:
You can see his hands gestering about 30 seconds before. I think this will be key to the cops mindset.
Click to expand...


Plus, we are seeing the POV from the position of the body-cam. The actual line of sight from the officer's eyes is a little higher, and might allow for him losing the placement of the driver's right hand... maybe partially blocked by the steering wheel... even for just a split-second. If the dash-cam shows that as the time he pulled out his gun, that's what his lawyer will use as a defense.
 
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