According to Slive. I'm not looking forward to this. I'm assuming this will mention the Kang's sucky last few years, show the "the only color that matters is maroon" speech 10 times, and step through the '07 season.
SEC "storied" to feature Crooms and MSU
- Thread starter Hump4Hoops
- Start date
According to Slive. I'm not looking forward to this. I'm assuming this will mention the Kang's sucky last few years, show the "the only color that matters is maroon" speech 10 times, and step through the '07 season.
According to Slive. I'm not looking forward to this. I'm assuming this will mention the Kang's sucky last few years, show the "the only color that matters is maroon" speech 10 times, and step through the '07 season.
While the Croom era was bad for the most part, this is something that will be positive for MSU more than likely.
State fans cheering for Ole Miss that last Egg Bowl? Slow motion shots of the golf cart peeling out on the practice field? Maine?
Couple of reminders:
1.) This is favorable, national media for State.
2.) Croom left our program in much better shape than he found it. He wasn't great, but he wasn't the Antichrist as some people think.
1.) This is favorable, national media for State.
2.) Croom left our program in much better shape than he found it. He wasn't great, but he wasn't the Antichrist as some people think.
Did he leave our program better by having one 17ing fluke of a winning season out of 4? Or perhaps by failing to recruit any linemen that should've been our juniors & seniors for depth the last season or so? Or maybe by not recruiting one single WR worth a damn in his entire tenure, forcing us to have to play so many freshmen & sophomores the last 3 seasons? Or maybe it was his sterling QB recruitment that leaving us with 1st team All-Americans in Tyson Lee & Relf? Or maybe it was those impressive Ws over the likes of Maine & Katrina-depleted Tulane?
Mullen has won ins spite of Crxxms "improvement" of the program. And make no mistake, this documentary will be very racial in nature. It'll probably detail the 60s race riots in Mississippi and generally paint the state in the typical redneck racist stereotype the media loves. Other than giving one good press conference, Crxxms didn't do a damn thing to deserve a documentary other than he happened to be black. I don't see why that deserves trumpeting.
Mullen has won ins spite of Crxxms "improvement" of the program. And make no mistake, this documentary will be very racial in nature. It'll probably detail the 60s race riots in Mississippi and generally paint the state in the typical redneck racist stereotype the media loves. Other than giving one good press conference, Crxxms didn't do a damn thing to deserve a documentary other than he happened to be black. I don't see why that deserves trumpeting.
Lot of NFL guys on Croom's first roster, regardless of what that buffoon said about Maine being better. Norwood, Stewart, Culberson, Dockery, Dez Sherrod, Butler, Robinson, Powell, not to mention an all SEC defensive end in Willie Evans, and a QB that in our current system would have been outstanding in Conner.
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(55, 55, 55); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-weight: 300; line-height: 22px; ">The Croom bashing returns by most ignorant posters.
Croom inherited arguably the worst MSU team in history in 2003. The 2002 team and the even worse 2003 team were laughable - it was simply not competitive at all. When Croom was hired in December 2003, MSU had two commitments, both two stars. You have not heard of either one. It was one of the worst recruiting classes ever at MSU. In contrast, when Croom was fired in December 2008, MSU had 21 commitments, and numerous more stellar recruits that were private commitments, were heavily recruited by Croom, and joined the team. It was by the best MSU recruiting class in probably twenty years. That is what Croom did and the difference that Croom made.
Croom first three teams were bad, though his third year team was light years better than his first year team. MSU had the worst talent in the SEC. If you disagree, then why couldn't Jackie win with that talent either? But by his fourth year, Croom had changed that completely. His fourth year, he went 4-4 in the SEC and 8-5 overall with a brutal schedule, beating Alabama and Auburn.
In the spring of 2008, Croom, by no fault of his own, lost the best player on the team, Mike Brown, LT, a starting CB (best CB on team), Anthony Johnson, a starting LB (Jamon Hughes, a stud), a starting DL, Quinten Wesley, and a rotational player on the DL (Rodney Prince). Before the season started, MSU lost its starting TE, Marcus Green, for the season. In the first game of the season, MSU was also without Derek Sherrod, Derek Pegues, and lost the best defensive player on the team, Jamar Chaney, for the entire season to injury.
By dismissals or injury, in just those players, MSU a minimum lost 72 "starts" (would-be starters that missed a start). The highest in DI football that year, by a mile. The total number was greater, and probably at least 80 (I didn't count after those players, but other starters missed starts that year due to injury). That is a staggering number. To put it in perspective, the highest number last year in Division I football was 59 (Maryland). In 2011, by comparison, MSU lost 11 starts - total - for the year to injury or dismissal. (See Phil Steele's blog for all the numbers).
Bear Bryant and Steve Spurrier could not survive those types of losses. It was clear to anyone that knows football that by the end of spring, with those players gone, it was going to be a long season for MSU football. Teams can't survive that. Not even Alabama could survive that.
In 2008, MSU lost to La. Tech with crazy turnovers (without 8 starters - think about that - Mike Brown, Quinten Wesley, Derek Pegues, Derrek Sherrod, Marcus Green, Anthony Johnson, Jamar Chaney). We all know all those players because they were studs - they were not just "average" starters, they were the best on the team. That is incredible. Even then, MSU still won two SEC games (same as Mullen has done in 2 out of 3 seasons!), and lost two other SEC games by 1 point. The team was 3 points from a bowl game.
It was no surprise when 2009 was better, though I believe Croom would have made a bowl in 2009 with an easier schedule. His good recruits were now in the program.
Name one player recruited by Mullen that has been a major contributor to MSU football so far and is considered one of the"best" players at MSU? There is one - JUCO Vic Ballard. Every other player that has made any all SEC 1 to 3rd team has been a Croom recruit, including this year. Every Mullen starting lineup has been dominated with Croom recruits.
Mullen finally had a good recruiting class this year, but it was his first at MSU. I hope he does well when Croom's recruits are out of the program. The schedule is now a cupcake - Croom would have made a bowl in 2008, even with those devastating player losses, with this schedule rather than an OOC top 10 team like he faced every year. He would probably still be the coach today with Greg Byrne's and Scott Stricklin's schedule.
The moaning about Croom not leaving enough players on the OL, but no praise for the talent that he left Mullen? Where have Mullen's stud freshman and sophomores been? Why have so few of his</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(55, 55, 55); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-weight: 300; line-height: 22px; ">players been starting in front of Croom's recuits yet in 3 years?</span>
Croom inherited arguably the worst MSU team in history in 2003. The 2002 team and the even worse 2003 team were laughable - it was simply not competitive at all. When Croom was hired in December 2003, MSU had two commitments, both two stars. You have not heard of either one. It was one of the worst recruiting classes ever at MSU. In contrast, when Croom was fired in December 2008, MSU had 21 commitments, and numerous more stellar recruits that were private commitments, were heavily recruited by Croom, and joined the team. It was by the best MSU recruiting class in probably twenty years. That is what Croom did and the difference that Croom made.
Croom first three teams were bad, though his third year team was light years better than his first year team. MSU had the worst talent in the SEC. If you disagree, then why couldn't Jackie win with that talent either? But by his fourth year, Croom had changed that completely. His fourth year, he went 4-4 in the SEC and 8-5 overall with a brutal schedule, beating Alabama and Auburn.
In the spring of 2008, Croom, by no fault of his own, lost the best player on the team, Mike Brown, LT, a starting CB (best CB on team), Anthony Johnson, a starting LB (Jamon Hughes, a stud), a starting DL, Quinten Wesley, and a rotational player on the DL (Rodney Prince). Before the season started, MSU lost its starting TE, Marcus Green, for the season. In the first game of the season, MSU was also without Derek Sherrod, Derek Pegues, and lost the best defensive player on the team, Jamar Chaney, for the entire season to injury.
By dismissals or injury, in just those players, MSU a minimum lost 72 "starts" (would-be starters that missed a start). The highest in DI football that year, by a mile. The total number was greater, and probably at least 80 (I didn't count after those players, but other starters missed starts that year due to injury). That is a staggering number. To put it in perspective, the highest number last year in Division I football was 59 (Maryland). In 2011, by comparison, MSU lost 11 starts - total - for the year to injury or dismissal. (See Phil Steele's blog for all the numbers).
Bear Bryant and Steve Spurrier could not survive those types of losses. It was clear to anyone that knows football that by the end of spring, with those players gone, it was going to be a long season for MSU football. Teams can't survive that. Not even Alabama could survive that.
In 2008, MSU lost to La. Tech with crazy turnovers (without 8 starters - think about that - Mike Brown, Quinten Wesley, Derek Pegues, Derrek Sherrod, Marcus Green, Anthony Johnson, Jamar Chaney). We all know all those players because they were studs - they were not just "average" starters, they were the best on the team. That is incredible. Even then, MSU still won two SEC games (same as Mullen has done in 2 out of 3 seasons!), and lost two other SEC games by 1 point. The team was 3 points from a bowl game.
It was no surprise when 2009 was better, though I believe Croom would have made a bowl in 2009 with an easier schedule. His good recruits were now in the program.
Name one player recruited by Mullen that has been a major contributor to MSU football so far and is considered one of the"best" players at MSU? There is one - JUCO Vic Ballard. Every other player that has made any all SEC 1 to 3rd team has been a Croom recruit, including this year. Every Mullen starting lineup has been dominated with Croom recruits.
Mullen finally had a good recruiting class this year, but it was his first at MSU. I hope he does well when Croom's recruits are out of the program. The schedule is now a cupcake - Croom would have made a bowl in 2008, even with those devastating player losses, with this schedule rather than an OOC top 10 team like he faced every year. He would probably still be the coach today with Greg Byrne's and Scott Stricklin's schedule.
The moaning about Croom not leaving enough players on the OL, but no praise for the talent that he left Mullen? Where have Mullen's stud freshman and sophomores been? Why have so few of his</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(55, 55, 55); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-weight: 300; line-height: 22px; ">players been starting in front of Croom's recuits yet in 3 years?</span>
Had more players arrested than Jackie. I find that hard to believe mainly because Jackie was here twice as long, but someone had the numbers.
I do agree that Croom didn't leave us in great shape. People forget that we had to start a walk-on, Tyson Lee because of Croom's piss poor recruiting management. We were set at deep snapper though.
I'm glad that we were the school that was willing to take a chance on a black coach. I get the historical significance of that. It would have been an even better story if Croom could have actually coached.
It was a typical lazy LT hire. LT knew that Croom had interviewed with Bama. LT wanted to kiss the SEC's ***. He hires Croom. The bottom line is Croom was in over his head. Our schedule in 2004 was pretty easy for a first year coach. Tulane, Maine, UAB, Vandy, UK, and then a 4-7 Mississippi team. Croom somehow manages to go 2-4 in those games. An average coach could have gone no worse than 5-1 without one of those losses being to Maine. Dan probably would have gotten us seven that year with his first MSU team.
Just so many obvious coaching mistakes- hiring an OC that was his friend who had never run the offense he wanted to run before and then saying he would never fire his head coach, not recruiting Mississippi- including never having anyone on his staff set foot on Madison Central's campus ever, paying more attention to Alabama in general- including kissing the Bear's *** ad nauseum than paying attention to the Egg Bowl, calling out the fans repeatedly- including my favorite all-time quote "I don't care what the fans think" and calling out the fans for "booing Mike Henig", when in fact we were booing Croom for putting Henig in. I could go on.
Croom was basically the black Rockey Felker. Yes, he had some good wins along the way- almost all of which were cancelled out by an equally bad loss. I don't know that he left us in better shape though- I think we kind of stayed the same for the most part with some flashes in the pan from time to time.
I do agree that Croom didn't leave us in great shape. People forget that we had to start a walk-on, Tyson Lee because of Croom's piss poor recruiting management. We were set at deep snapper though.
I'm glad that we were the school that was willing to take a chance on a black coach. I get the historical significance of that. It would have been an even better story if Croom could have actually coached.
It was a typical lazy LT hire. LT knew that Croom had interviewed with Bama. LT wanted to kiss the SEC's ***. He hires Croom. The bottom line is Croom was in over his head. Our schedule in 2004 was pretty easy for a first year coach. Tulane, Maine, UAB, Vandy, UK, and then a 4-7 Mississippi team. Croom somehow manages to go 2-4 in those games. An average coach could have gone no worse than 5-1 without one of those losses being to Maine. Dan probably would have gotten us seven that year with his first MSU team.
Just so many obvious coaching mistakes- hiring an OC that was his friend who had never run the offense he wanted to run before and then saying he would never fire his head coach, not recruiting Mississippi- including never having anyone on his staff set foot on Madison Central's campus ever, paying more attention to Alabama in general- including kissing the Bear's *** ad nauseum than paying attention to the Egg Bowl, calling out the fans repeatedly- including my favorite all-time quote "I don't care what the fans think" and calling out the fans for "booing Mike Henig", when in fact we were booing Croom for putting Henig in. I could go on.
Croom was basically the black Rockey Felker. Yes, he had some good wins along the way- almost all of which were cancelled out by an equally bad loss. I don't know that he left us in better shape though- I think we kind of stayed the same for the most part with some flashes in the pan from time to time.
Seriously, isn't 4 years enough to change the direction of a battleship,
aka a major-college football program?
aka a major-college football program?
Yeah, I don't care how much talent you had to start or how much you left the next coach....when your team is so unprepared that your rival can name the score....and you do nothing during the game to adjust....then post game say you have no idea what happened... You aren't much of a coach. It can be argued he recruited decent for a State head coach. However, he had no idea how to prepare that talent or put together an offensive game plan.
Your and dubmass. If Mullen got to go against Crooms' schedule, he does just as good if not better. The OOC games were still winnable and Alabama and Arkansas obviously weren't the same teams then that they are now.digdawg said:
More importantly, if you have a coach that can't beat Maine or Tulane when his team has vastly superior talent, as a general rule it's probably safe to say that coach will be a disaster in the SEC. Croom was not the exception to this rule.
All the best players were starting to bail by the time he was fired. Pat Patterson decommitted after the awesome 3-2 Auburn game, never to step foot on campus. Russell was on the verge of heading to Bama and playing for Saban. Bumphis was heading to FL. Mullen bailed his *** out of the fire on that class or it would've been a disaster like his other classes. Even a blind man could see no offensive player worth a damn wanted to play for his cluster17 of an offense.digdawg said:
As for a Mullen player that's a major contributor and considered on of the best at MSU? Johnthan Banks. He's only 1st Team All-SEC, a potential All-American, potential first round NFL Draft Pick, and one of the best ever to wear the Maroon & White. Mullen found him, not Crxxms. I'd like to know what alternate reality you Crxxms worshipers escaped from so we can send you back.
Over the years, I've watched ESPN use ESPN prime time slots to assist Mike Krzyzewski in recruiting for Duke; I've seen them use the ESPN airwaves to assist Steve Spurrier in recruiting for South Carolina. I've seen ESPN allow Urban Frank Meyer to use ESPN airwaves to recruit for Florida & Ohio State.
There are more; these are just the ones I can cite off the top of my head.
My point being, I just wish ESPN would have offered the same perks & amenities to Sly Croom when Croom was @ State.
Not after he has left State.
There are more; these are just the ones I can cite off the top of my head.
My point being, I just wish ESPN would have offered the same perks & amenities to Sly Croom when Croom was @ State.
Not after he has left State.
"missed starts" from players that got kicked off the team before the season starts now to justify Croom losing to LaTech and 45-0 to Ole Miss? Mike Brown was a gift to MSU anyway. Croom got fired because he was/is a stubborn bastard that refused to change his offense and his game management strategy. His offense WAS 17ing ATROCIOUS. He never had an offense better than 100 EVER! How is that even 17ing possible when you have Jerious Norwood and Omar Connor? Croom's offense was so 17ing bad he lost 3-2 vs Auburn. Think about that for more than a second. Auburn couldn't do ANYTHING with the ball the entire game and Croom couldn't even luck into a simple field goal in 60 minutes. These are just a few examples of the many many bad to horrible examples that Croom had while he was head coach. Did you forget the time he went for it on 4th and 1 on UGA's 40 got it and then punted 4 minutes later on 4th and 1 from UGA's 30? I am so glad he is gone.
Here is a link:
http://mississippistate.s...54609&fhn=1&pg=7
If you don't have a scout membership:
<span style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:
EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span>Mississippi State picked up its seventh commitment for 2009 as Jonathan Banks has given Sylvester Croom his verbal commitment.
This commitment has been confirmed by Banks and Scout.com will have a complete story in just a few minutes.
Im not saying anything about alternate reality, but Id say as far as Jonathan Banks goes he was more realistic about what happened as opposed to you.
Edited to add:
Before you say he was about to flip before Mullen came to the rescue, here is an interview after Croom resigned/fired:
<br style="font-weight: bold;"><b style="font-weight: bold;"><span id="story-deck">Jonathan
Banks committed to Mississippi State earlier this year fulfilling a
lifelong dream of being a Bulldog. Despite the resignation of Sylvester
Croom, Banks has hit sites set on Starkville.</span>[/b]<span style="font-weight: bold;">
</span>
<span class="storybody">
"I found out yesterday," said Jonathan Banks. "My sister in law told me. I really couldn't believe it. I was watching the Alabama/Auburn game and I saw it on the screen. I just didn't know what to think."
Banks reports that his commitment to Mississippi State has not been effected by the recent news.</p>
"I committed to State and I have to make the best decision for me and my
family and that's Mississippi State," said Jonathan. "I have always
wanted to go there and that is not something that is going to change. I
am just ready to see who the new coach will be."
</p></span>
http://mississippistate.s...54609&fhn=1&pg=7
If you don't have a scout membership:
<span style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:
EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span>Mississippi State picked up its seventh commitment for 2009 as Jonathan Banks has given Sylvester Croom his verbal commitment.
This commitment has been confirmed by Banks and Scout.com will have a complete story in just a few minutes.
Im not saying anything about alternate reality, but Id say as far as Jonathan Banks goes he was more realistic about what happened as opposed to you.
Edited to add:
Before you say he was about to flip before Mullen came to the rescue, here is an interview after Croom resigned/fired:
<br style="font-weight: bold;"><b style="font-weight: bold;"><span id="story-deck">Jonathan
Banks committed to Mississippi State earlier this year fulfilling a
lifelong dream of being a Bulldog. Despite the resignation of Sylvester
Croom, Banks has hit sites set on Starkville.</span>[/b]<span style="font-weight: bold;">
</span>
<span class="storybody">
"I found out yesterday," said Jonathan Banks. "My sister in law told me. I really couldn't believe it. I was watching the Alabama/Auburn game and I saw it on the screen. I just didn't know what to think."
Banks reports that his commitment to Mississippi State has not been effected by the recent news.</p>
"I committed to State and I have to make the best decision for me and my
family and that's Mississippi State," said Jonathan. "I have always
wanted to go there and that is not something that is going to change. I
am just ready to see who the new coach will be."
</p></span>
S
Sauron
Guest
S
Sauron
Guest
So Mullen doesn't get credit and Croom doesn't get credit.
When Banks was offered a scholarship by MSU he committed to MSU.
Why are people so upset when people say that a player committed to Croom instead of Mullen? So he committed to Croom instead of Mullen and was coming to MSU regardless of who MSU hired after Croom was tossed.
Isn't it a good thing that Croom left Mullen a decent recruiting class to hold together? As someone who lived through Tuberville handing a 1 one person recruiting class off to Cutcliffe in 1998, I can tell you that I would rather admit that Tubby left Cut a bunch of really good commits that Cut signed versus what happened at Ole Miss where Cut had to put together a class in about six weeks.
When Banks was offered a scholarship by MSU he committed to MSU.
Why are people so upset when people say that a player committed to Croom instead of Mullen? So he committed to Croom instead of Mullen and was coming to MSU regardless of who MSU hired after Croom was tossed.
Isn't it a good thing that Croom left Mullen a decent recruiting class to hold together? As someone who lived through Tuberville handing a 1 one person recruiting class off to Cutcliffe in 1998, I can tell you that I would rather admit that Tubby left Cut a bunch of really good commits that Cut signed versus what happened at Ole Miss where Cut had to put together a class in about six weeks.
I don't think he was a great coach. I don't even think he was a good coach. But there's a lot of territory between "not good" and "we are renaming our bowel movements after him". That, and I remember how terrible we were in JWS's final years. It went deeper than lack or presence of talent... we had a major culture problem in our program that superseded any talent he did or did not have. I don't think these culture problems existed when Dan took over, hence my claim the program was better off.
I just think this board takes their hatred of Croom to an extreme, that's all.
I just think this board takes their hatred of Croom to an extreme, that's all.
S
Sauron
Guest
Bump was likely headed to UF. Mullen convinced him to stay with him at State. Russell was listening hard to what Spurrier at SC was saying. People don't realize how hard the old ball coach was after Russell once Croom got shown the door. I KNOW this because--believe it nor not--I know people close to his family. Tyler's mom and dad spoke with Tebow's mom and dad who were not huge Mullen fans because Mullen was not a Christian. Tyler, very silently, decommitted from us. Mullen had to bring him back into the fold. For that alone, he needs some credit.
And as far as Croom goes, I don't hate Croom. But Croom never gave a damn about MSU. All he cared about was being the first black head coach in the SEC and how that would be perceived. Croom wanted the Bama job bad. He was in way over his head at a place he didn't want to be at anyway.
And as far as Croom goes, I don't hate Croom. But Croom never gave a damn about MSU. All he cared about was being the first black head coach in the SEC and how that would be perceived. Croom wanted the Bama job bad. He was in way over his head at a place he didn't want to be at anyway.
