You could just type "I'm a dubmass" and save everyone a bunch of time.
Selmon said the quiet part out loud ….
- Thread starter Shmuley
- Start date
Yall complaining about Leach but forget about Joe Mo…that’s where Cohen blew it. Most talented team we’ve ever had and Moorehead blew it ..Leach might not have been the answer long term but we won’t know. We do know his last team won 9 and had virtually the entire team coming back. We also know Cohen went all in on Jo Mo and baseball….i love baseball but it won’t keep you in the super league when it get formed. Football will. Cohen was and is a dipshit.
Exactly. And back to back crappy performances at UK and at home when Mullen came back with UF. Absolutely terrible games that had we won could have potentially re-written our recent football history. But instead, we were the victim of two hard-headed know-it-alls, first with Moorhead unwilling to play to his qb’s strengths in year 1 and 2nd Arnett completely blowing up the offense when he took over.
Dan Mullen wanted out in 2012. Coincidence?
So now we know it had more to do with out athletic department than the lack of a Target.
Dan may have been a grinder as a player developer. His staff recruited well enough at first. But then Freeze and a confederate gunboatload of money showed up in Oxford.
The smartest decision Dan ever made as a Coach was letting Dak decide if he wanted to come in and play the last quarter of the 2013 Egg Bowl. Fortunately for us Dak wanted in and 2014 happened.
Maybe Dan would have wanted to be here to build a real legacy here if Stricklin and Cohen would have gone all in like OM did.
We can only imagine.
So now we know it had more to do with out athletic department than the lack of a Target.
Dan may have been a grinder as a player developer. His staff recruited well enough at first. But then Freeze and a confederate gunboatload of money showed up in Oxford.
The smartest decision Dan ever made as a Coach was letting Dak decide if he wanted to come in and play the last quarter of the 2013 Egg Bowl. Fortunately for us Dak wanted in and 2014 happened.
Maybe Dan would have wanted to be here to build a real legacy here if Stricklin and Cohen would have gone all in like OM did.
We can only imagine.
No, I'm not forgetting about Jomo. His Jomo screwup led to him doing something splashy and short sighted with Leach. If Jomo had worked out like he was supposed to, we wouldn't be where we are today.
How do you know? You don't read my arguments. You just put words in my mouth and argue with those.
You're incapable of objectivity in this discussion. So you need to take a seat and let the grownups talk.
Right. We went woe is me Mississippi State and made a typical Mississippi State hire at the peak of our football success. A competent AD would have hired a reasonably experienced HC to take that situation over. Instead, we went coordinator and tried to convince the fans he was a genius that nobody else wanted as their HC. That was the moment we decided we didn't want to be successful at football. We actively rejected it with that stupid hire.
It's almost like we hit the spending cap in the Dak-era then had to start shedding investing in nice things in the following years to keep it all under control. Does that sound accurate?
Before we get too excited about what Selmon said, let's remember that this is the same guy who hired his buddy from Oklahoma with zero head coaching experience, and really only 2 years of mixed results at Oklahoma of running his own offense. He's talking big, but he hired real lazy and cheap. That was a Mississippi State hire if there every was one.
When you have no logical reply for your false assertions you name call. That usually means you’ve lost the argument.
modern transfer portal , lack of nil funds, arnett and the boosters blowing up the program ? You avoided those elephants in the room when trying to pin the current shat show on a guy who passed away three years ago.
Classy*
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Maybe you can post your way out of it. I'm sure if you keep looking for other things to blame, there are plenty to find.
Mike Leach nor Zack Arnett had anything to do with money.
We paid Mike well but its not like we just broke the bank. Arnett was paid well for his experience but we didn't hire him to save money. We hired him b/c of timing.
Wait wait wait. I thought there were people on here saying Selmon was too focused on baseball and not enough on football?
Per the article, he inherited an NIL collective with 500k in it for all sports. He now has 15 million just for football. That's the investment. He also secured funds for the new IPF, put up LED lights, and is about to announce a SEZ project and speaker upgrades in the near future (this is not not in the article but it is what he's working on).
Thats not really your theory is it?
Its pretty well known that Cohen interviewed with Auburn and then approached Keenum about a raise. Keenum told him he should probably take the job.
Leach is gone man. Its kind of weird that you are a necrophiliac.
Leach made his system work and he recruited talented players for his system. Moorhead took already talented players and imposed a system not best suited to their talents and athleticism.
No one is bashing leach you moron.
But when he died we were screwed. Only leach can do leach. What he left us with couldn't be carried on very easily. But but muh muh coach spurrier!!!
He also wasn't going to be head coach long term due to health, age, NIL, etc.
But you've been called out on this multiple times. Even with leaches recruits not transferring we still had terrible talent.
That hire was always going to be a hard one. I refer you to the Deboar thread the other day, where pretty much everyone agreed that Bama did not do the right thing. Just like I said the other day, I would have just hired from within, and let that ride, then start over. Cohen was determined to try a passing offense, and I get it. He saw the trends, and the rule changes - he was looking for that 'different' offense. But he did sacrifice the 2018 season, no question about that.
Then obviously Leach was an extension of that. So I do agree with you @Drebin that Leach was a quick fix at the time, but also part of the broader plan. But I do think everyone expected to get about 5-7 years out of Leach (i.e. two recruiting cycles) before he died. And we'd be just fine had he lived, portal/NIL or not, he was doing fine there. But he didn't live.
Now, we all need someone to blame for the current situation. The answer is, it's no one's fault. We are a smaller, less committed (in many ways, one of which is financially) fanbase. We were late to the party in NIL like we are in every facet of football. Cohen just didn't put on a smiling face about that....he actually said it. And people didn't like that, and then, when he went to Auburn.....well yeah, he's the perfect guy on which to drop all the blame.
Either way, we've still got to figure out the riddle that is Mississippi State football. But good luck, our dubmass fanbase can't even figure out how to properly support the school logo. That's why we have no tradition except a damned cowbell.
If we want to figure out some basics, we actually might want to start with looking at the one athletic thing on our campus we have consistently done right.....the baseball program. We damn near wrecked that too.
No one is complaining about leach.
Its been stated very clearly. Cohen made a huge mistake with Slo Joe. He followed that up making a quick fix hire that had little chance of lasting long term.
Everyone seems to forget that Cohen wanted to hire Joe Judge to replace Moorhead.
I dont know if Sarkisian was seriously interested in the job, but Joe Judge would have been our head coach if the Giants had not panicked after Matt Rhule went to the Panthers.
Mike Leach was next up after Sark and Judge. I was never a fan of Leach, but I think Cohen did okay hiring him under the circumstances.
Leach's passing was tragic enough, but it also could not have come at a worse time for our program. No AD, no leadership, and the NIL collectives had just started operating at full speed.
I dont know if Sarkisian was seriously interested in the job, but Joe Judge would have been our head coach if the Giants had not panicked after Matt Rhule went to the Panthers.
Mike Leach was next up after Sark and Judge. I was never a fan of Leach, but I think Cohen did okay hiring him under the circumstances.
Leach's passing was tragic enough, but it also could not have come at a worse time for our program. No AD, no leadership, and the NIL collectives had just started operating at full speed.
Whether Leach was a disastrous hire due to him not being a long term candidate, or Leach was a smart hire that would have successfully bridged the gap until someone long term was ready to take the reigns in 5 years, one thing is true.
1- blaming where we are now on Leach's hiring or Leach's offense is wildly stupid. In an age where about 25% of college FBS players entered the portal in one year(fall '23) and about 33% of players have transferred more than once in their college career, rebuilding a team to fit the new coach's system is easier and faster than ever.
There have been 3 Spring Portal windows since Leach died, and 2 full HS recruiting seasons.
1- blaming where we are now on Leach's hiring or Leach's offense is wildly stupid. In an age where about 25% of college FBS players entered the portal in one year(fall '23) and about 33% of players have transferred more than once in their college career, rebuilding a team to fit the new coach's system is easier and faster than ever.
There have been 3 Spring Portal windows since Leach died, and 2 full HS recruiting seasons.
Sorry but I don’t want to hear excuses for Cohen’s incompetence. The height of MSU football was heading into 2018 season. The most talented roster we’ve ever had. And Cohen threw it all away.
Cohen should be public enemy #1 for MSU fans
You can point this out until you're blue in the face but they won't get it. Heavy completely swapped the roster last year, and again this year. I won't even comment on whether it was good or bad, but it's true.
Program builder? 80-90% of head coaching hires aren’t going to last longer than 5 years at one school….for one reason or another. Especially at schools like MSU. Program building over the long haul is also a myth, and therefore people need to stop using the length of the tenure as some kind of pass / fail criteria as to the quality of the hire. Mullen was at MSU for 9 years, and more or less underachieved for the last 7 of those 9 years. The “built program” lost 4 of the last 6 Egg Bowls - 2 of them at home, and 3 of them to vastly inferior OM teams in 2012, 2014, and 2017. The “built program” also delivered the biggest gut punch, choke job month of football in program history in November-December 2014, lost at home to a Sun Belt team and went 5-7 (in Year 8) and totally squandered Years 4 and 5 of the only generational QB talent we’ve ever had.
The program and the culture are a direct result of the man in charge at the time. Look no further than how quickly the “Mullen culture” disappeared under Moorhead, and also how quickly the Saban culture disappeared under DeBoer. Both were instantaneous.
All that being said, if you can come up with a better hire for MSU in mid-January 2020 than Mike Leach that was realistic, I’d love to know who it was. Even with the gift of hindsight, I doubt you can. The fact is that the only thing keeping the Leach tenure from being a huge success was that he died. If he doesn’t die, and he coaches us to 7-5 in 2023 and 8-4 last year, then retires, its a huge success by any measure.
The talent Lebby took over was terrible. FACT.
you can decide who to blame that on. Doesn’t matter to me but it doesn’t change the FACT that Lebby was hired into probably the worst situation in college football especially P4 as far as rebuilding talent.
How many players did he lose or force out that leach recruited that would be honorable mention all sec?
name them
You can’t you arrogant ignorant 17
We make this team out like they were going to make the playoff. They weren't. 10-2 was the max. But yeah we should have at least gotten to experience that.
I agree he overspent on a stadium, with a lot of agreement on the part of a lot of others.
However, I'm not sure how he overspent on baseball itself though, especially considering there was a National Championship in there that was the first in the big 3 sports. Our chances of many more of those is debatable in this day and age.
Wait, are you talking about Cohen or Selmon, it could be either.......,
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I'm gonna push back here. Was it not a reaction to making what we thought was a strategic hire that blew up in our faces (Moorhead)? I think we were set on getting a proven commodity and Leach checked all the boxes (gettable, success at "have-not" schools, culturally popular). Not exactly a lazy hire. Just safer than a hot coordinator lottery ticket. As @Perd Hapley posted, I'm not sure Cohen could've done any better than Leach.
1. Everyone is looking for program builders. It's part of the job requirement for just about any program. At State, that's the type of coach you need, and what we're living through right now is proof of that.
2. Are you really suggesting that Mike Leach was the only realistic coach we could hire? We were an SEC program with an active bowl streak. We could have hired any number of good coaches. If your argument is "we couldn't have hired Saban," ok. But we could've had just about anyone we wanted from the G5 and there were a lot of good coaches that have now stepped into bigger jobs.
3. The problem wasn't Leach the coach. The problem is what happens to the program when Leach the coach leaves. Because the program was built so uniquely for Leach the coach that it will require a complete rebuild when he left. That's what would've happened in your scenario if he had retired, and it's what happened in actuality when he died. It was a short-sighted hire, a splashy hire, with no continuity plan.
I didn’t hate cohen making the leach hire, but in hindsight it was a mistake.
Im not blaming cohen for that necessarily but he was the guy who made the hire.
The transfer portal makes your leach rebuild argument moot. UNC had 70 new players on their roster. We are three years out from Leachs passing. This is grasping at straws
And by objective measures, his last team was among the 10 best in MSU history. Haters gonna hate. It's what they do.