That’s exactly what I thought too. Way too sluggish and dehydrated as a team for a game. Being Hungover will cause that.
Strength and conditioning……
- Thread starter OG Goat Holder
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A generic S&C program would produce strong linemen for a 62 play huddle offense or whatever. But Lebby’s scheme demands linemen who are strong AND most importantly relentlessly conditioned. And that’s why the staff is tailored. That goes for the offense and the defense both, because the defense has to be back out there more because of our style if offense. Because of that they all have to be trained the same way. It’s what comes with the style you wanted and begged for back in 2023. Criticizing it is like blaming the mechanic for using race car parts on a Formula 1 engine.
Again, go back and read my last respond to this. You’re not considering or understanding the NCAA rule changes in 2023 that shortened the game. Lebby’s 77.3 plays stand out way more in today’s game because it’s done in a shorter window. That requires the nations fastest pace or tempo which we have. Other words 77-78 in today’s game is not close to that number before 2023. That’s why we’re at the top in the nation in plays per game and pace.
You couldn't be more wrong. I get that strength is super important, but saying the strongest guy always wins is kinda missing the bigger picture. Being a great athlete isn’t just about how much you can lift....it’s a mix of strength, conditioning, skill, agility, and even mental toughness. If your S&C sessions feel like a high-intensity practice, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Conditioning isn’t just something you do in preseason or practice, it’s about building the right energy systems so you can perform at your best when it counts and specific to your sport... You can’t just rely on practice drills to cover all that.
Also, just because someone’s “genetically gifted” doesn’t mean they don’t need to keep working on skills and conditioning. Even the most talented players improve by putting in the work off the field. So yeah, raw strength is important, but it’s definitely not the whole story.
I dont think our S&C is the best, but I think that's on the work ethic of the team. You can look at KT'S body transformation and how much muscle he put on from joining the team to the end of the season to show that their doing their part in getting them a routine that works. I think the players are just half bootying it all.
I don't recall ever posting that I wanted State to run a hurry up offense that emphasizes more plays on offense even though I enjoyed the Leach years because he knew how to do that and win. But my main interest is quality football and wins and I could care less about the details beyond that. I understand the "modern" game has been geared to encourage the passing game and lots of plays on offense, but I remain in the camp that a strong defense wins games and championships. The fact that the four head coaches in the playoffs are proteges of Saban, who won 6 or 7 nattys emphasizing defense, seems to confirm that in the "modern" game, defense still wins championships.
So here we are in year 2 and nothing is better. Croom's guys never got better. Moorhead's guys were noticeably worse in year 2.
Meanwhile Mullen's and Leach's first year teams immediately appeared more in shape.
You can train athletic ability at around 20%. You can train strength around 80%. Strength is the much bigger factor in this equation. It's not the whole story, but it's most of it.
All this one-legged this and that.......junk. And Shaud Williams is doing a ton of it.
Yes, having a S&C session feel like a high intensity practice is bad, because it is practice, not a S&C session. Never said gifted athletes don't need to work hard, but hell , what do I know? I've only been a S&C Coach for 25 years.
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My last post on the subject because at the end of the day you can clearly see the results on the field brought on by the toughness of the head coach and how it reflects in their S&C coach choices throughout the years. And yes, the quality of some of our athletes has really dropped the last few years too.
-Strength is the one variable amongst all humans that can be consistently improved regardless of age, gender or genetics.
-The single biggest challenge a S&C Coach at the collegiate and pro levels is don’t screw up the god given talent that you been gifted.
-In the offseason your primary focus should be maximizing strength gains with consistent conditioning but not so much that it adversely affects strength gains.
-Preseason and in-season focus will shift to maintaining strength/conditioning without risk of overtraining due to the addition of a full practice schedule.
-Focus on improving “speed” is nonsense. Genetics determine speed more than anything. Any marginal improvement in speed for already fast athletes will be due to strength increases because believe it or not a stronger muscle is more efficient. Taking a badly overweight lineman and improving speed due to a combination of weight loss and strength increases is very achievable but it won’t happen by focusing on “speed” work.
-Having athletes squatting on balance boards and bosus is literally stupid; it improves nothing and proves nothing. They can squat on the damn things because of the fact they are gifted athletes. I can squat on them due to my leg strength because I am most definitely NOT blessed with agility and balance.
-Making your S&C sessions look like a high-speed version of drills performed in football practice is exactly that…practice. That is exactly what is wrong with Head Coaches having input into what a S&C session should entail. I’ve seen baseball coaches want bats rigged up to a cable machine or bands so that it would improve bat speed. Idiotic. It doesn’t improve a damn thing but it definitely screws up the batter’s swing.
-Yes, there is such a thing as too much conditioning because it is very detrimental to strength.
-Mental toughness is instilled by S&C Coaches and the football staff in general. Mullen was a prick but his teams played tough. Moorhead’s were soft. Lebby’s are soft. Mental toughness is critical at the end of hard-fought game and can be just as important as strength. I don’t care how strong you are, if you are a mental ***** then you will get your *** beat every time.
-Genetics are the great limiting factor for athletes but I would much rather have a mediocre athlete who maximizes their physical abilities through hard work and with a very high football IQ because they put in the extra time in the film room studying the game and their opponents then someone who has always gotten by on their natural ability. A middle linebacker who always makes the correct reads and takes the right angles is more valuable to the team then a genetic freak who is always reacting to the play. That is equal parts on the player and the coaching staff to instill that work ethic. We have been sorely lacking in the latter for years. That is very evident when you look at the footwork of our OL and lack of handwork/stunting/etc. from our DL when rushing the QB.
-Strength is the one variable amongst all humans that can be consistently improved regardless of age, gender or genetics.
-The single biggest challenge a S&C Coach at the collegiate and pro levels is don’t screw up the god given talent that you been gifted.
-In the offseason your primary focus should be maximizing strength gains with consistent conditioning but not so much that it adversely affects strength gains.
-Preseason and in-season focus will shift to maintaining strength/conditioning without risk of overtraining due to the addition of a full practice schedule.
-Focus on improving “speed” is nonsense. Genetics determine speed more than anything. Any marginal improvement in speed for already fast athletes will be due to strength increases because believe it or not a stronger muscle is more efficient. Taking a badly overweight lineman and improving speed due to a combination of weight loss and strength increases is very achievable but it won’t happen by focusing on “speed” work.
-Having athletes squatting on balance boards and bosus is literally stupid; it improves nothing and proves nothing. They can squat on the damn things because of the fact they are gifted athletes. I can squat on them due to my leg strength because I am most definitely NOT blessed with agility and balance.
-Making your S&C sessions look like a high-speed version of drills performed in football practice is exactly that…practice. That is exactly what is wrong with Head Coaches having input into what a S&C session should entail. I’ve seen baseball coaches want bats rigged up to a cable machine or bands so that it would improve bat speed. Idiotic. It doesn’t improve a damn thing but it definitely screws up the batter’s swing.
-Yes, there is such a thing as too much conditioning because it is very detrimental to strength.
-Mental toughness is instilled by S&C Coaches and the football staff in general. Mullen was a prick but his teams played tough. Moorhead’s were soft. Lebby’s are soft. Mental toughness is critical at the end of hard-fought game and can be just as important as strength. I don’t care how strong you are, if you are a mental ***** then you will get your *** beat every time.
-Genetics are the great limiting factor for athletes but I would much rather have a mediocre athlete who maximizes their physical abilities through hard work and with a very high football IQ because they put in the extra time in the film room studying the game and their opponents then someone who has always gotten by on their natural ability. A middle linebacker who always makes the correct reads and takes the right angles is more valuable to the team then a genetic freak who is always reacting to the play. That is equal parts on the player and the coaching staff to instill that work ethic. We have been sorely lacking in the latter for years. That is very evident when you look at the footwork of our OL and lack of handwork/stunting/etc. from our DL when rushing the QB.
What happened to Feld at Oregon? I thought he was o e of the top S&C coaches? Didn’t gameday highlight him one time?I’d argue S&C coaching staff is your most important one - they spend the most time with the team and help set the culture
You also have an alum in Birmingham at
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Feld is one of the make S&C sessions look like a high speed football drills session and "you are strong enough we must work on speed" idiots that I was referencing. He is at a private facility in Alabama now.
He went to Miami after Oregon..pretty sure he resigned last year? He might have been caught trying to dip the curly cue at the end of his stupid looking mustache into the wrong hole..??
As far as setting up the timing traps? Nope. Move the weight as fast as you can while maintaining absolute control and form: no need overthinking it. Olympic movements to build explosiveness..Yes.
I get that
My speed days typically revolve around bands - use a lot of Louie Simmons and west side barbell principles
Lots of tools in the tool chest. Definitely nothing wrong with using bands and chains for progressive overload through your range of motion especially if you are having issues locking out. I've pretty much reduced my training to bench, squats/presses, deads three days per week and loaded carries, sled work, strongman wheelbarrow, intervals on air bike,etc for three days.
Shortened the game so much that in 2025 (excluding Alcon due to 2nd half 10 min Qs) the average game length was 3.52hrs long
the change was so dramatic that the average game length in 2014 was 3.48hrs long
edited to add game length is available on hail state site in box score
Game shortening changes were mitigated by allotted advertising time.
It is a 5-10 play per game difference on average overall across the board since the rule changes. This is not referring to time length, commercial breaks, reviews ect
Actually Mullens 2014 team and Leach’s 2021 team ran more plays per game than Lebby this year and Mullens other years were pretty close to equal - I provided the data earlier in the thread from the source you provided
I also provide scoring def for each of those years as well from said source - don’t suck at giving up points and you end up have a good year
Well, I think herein lies the problem - we got too dang many ATHLETES and not enough FOOTBALL PLAYERS!!
There are additional tweaks but main one is the game clock now runs after first downs (except in the final two minutes of each half), aligning with NFL rules. This single rule reduced average game time by 5–7 minutes and cut total offensive plays per game by about 7-8 league-wide. This went into effect in 2023. How are you not comprehending this?
So, if you’re comparing modern high tempo offenses like Lebby’s to older eras, remember: Games are now shorter overall, making 78 plays per game in 2025 even more impressive because the same volume is crammed into less time than in the 2010s or early 2020s.
How the 17 do you not realize Lebby's offense sleeps half of the game when it comes to scoring? Running a **** ton of offensive plays mean jack if you don't score points. Then being a dubmass to not realize that when you happen to end up with a chance to win your brain says let's go full throttle when everyone else's thinking slow it down and we can win this.
Real question is how many of the 80 plays/ game are ran because the D shat the bed and the O couldn't move the ball?
You were one of ones too. Pick one and just admit it:
1. You got exactly what you asked for in an aggressive coach with an extreme tempo explosive play, passing offense, and the growing pains of defense fatigue, depth issues are part of the deal you never thought through.
OR
2. You didn’t actually understand what extreme tempo explosive football requires and now regret asking for it.
Take your head remove from your own ***.... Now breathe a few breaths of O2. Now look back on your last 100 posts the last several days. Noodle arm you left our university, but you act like you know what's right for our school. If don't understand what was said to you then stay in Washington state.
High school weight room here has speedometers built into the barbells. Is this necessary? I wasn't going to criticize it because I don't know enough but seems like overkill. Basically they want hypertrophy in the offseason then summer and in-season (football, I'm talking) is all based on speed. If your speed drops they won't let you go up in weight.
I'm still not sure what hypertrophy means. Is it strength or bigger muscles? Is it both? What is the right rep range for it?
Hypertrophy - focused on muscle building (probably more volume - sets reps)
the VBT (speed) - focused on power production - moving a certain weight at the targeted velocity
I don’t necessarily think it’s overkill - however there are other ways to build speed and power
I happen to think you can likely accomplish both year round if you are disciplined in the training and continue to keep the main thing the main thing - the sport
The issue you will run into is nutrition at the HS level - and fatigue becomes a monster issue
So it’s tailored to offense but the defense strength and conditioning still sucks…