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Sustain and retain …Pike’s and Rutgers basketball way forward to rebuilding the program

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Scarlet Shack

Heisman
Feb 3, 2004
26,041
15,433
73
Yes ….its a rebuild, when we only recruit 7 freshmen and three years and have one on the roster (Jmike ).

I’m not gojng to get into how and why we got here ….but to get out of it …pike needs guys in his program to get to their junior and senior year that can play his defensive system :..rebound and be tough on the court

Our system is not built on winning throigh the portal

So simply put …it means SUSTAIN and RETAIN

1.) Sustain recruting . The class of 2024’, even without Ace and Dylan here …has two legit 4 star kids in sommerville and grant , and a 150-200 kid in Dortch .

The class of 2025 has two similar type kids in mark and Nuwili , and two more in the 150/200 range in Powers and ware .

We need to continue to sign classes like this that have 2-3 top 125 prospects per year …and a couple of more solid depth pieces in them. We need two more classes like this …to rebuild a roster .

2.) Retain ….we cannot come into a year again with a completely turned over roster .

We must ….must retain the guys to develop a nucleus and foundation and restabkished continuity . I mean, have of a new team every year …you even after teach them how to practice your way .

Must keep
Lathan
Dylan G
Bryce
JaMichael
Jordan
Emmanuel Ogoble

Then …the year after …derkack and Ogoble are done , and we can return 8 guys ..and we really need to keep at least 6 of them, and preferable 7….to bring a soph /frosh dominated team to a junior /soph teams .



Both sustain and retain take NIL $$$ . That needs to be addressed

But we aren’t going to get it done in the portal….this is how pike and staff get the most out of the program

Sustain and retain ….

Pin that one :…that’s what we gotta do
 
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F

FAT MOON

All-Conference
Mar 27, 2006
3,906
3,596
113
SBP said:
Portal works… if you’re good at filling your needs. Somewhere, someone gave him bad intel on some guys
Click to expand...

I would say Portal works...if you have a ton of NIL.

I like the sustain and retain model myself as well. You have to differentiate yourself. We are obviously not going to outspend people so we need to recruit well and also recruit the right kind of player. They are out there. At RU anyway, if a HS kid is asking about NIL first, second and third...probably best to let him go unless you think he's gonna make a major impact year 1. Because that will probably be the only time you have him.
 
P

Pils86

All-Conference
Sep 21, 2008
1,766
1,315
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When Maryland was warming up I saw Reese's face and thought damn, this guy is still around. Then comes Iowa and I had the same thought with Sandfort. It would be nice if we had one or two quality players each year that had 3 - 4 years in the system.
 
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F

FAT MOON

All-Conference
Mar 27, 2006
3,906
3,596
113
NickRU714 said:
How do you already know we need to retain the 4 incoming freshman for their sophomore year?

What if it turns out they aren't Big Ten caliber players?
Im a broken record but did we need to retain Jalen Miller and Chol until they were seniors?
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blanket statement but with 15 scholarships...i think you retain 100% of your frosh classes**...assuming you can. you can get more cutthroat later but give an 18 year old a full two seasons with your program before finding a shiny new toy

**locker room cancers can be told to GTFO
 
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S

Scarlet Shack

Heisman
Feb 3, 2004
26,041
15,433
73
NickRU714 said:
How do you already know we need to retain the 4 incoming freshman for their sophomore year?

What if it turns out they aren't Big Ten caliber players?
Im a broken record but did we need to retain Jalen Miller and Chol until they were seniors?
Click to expand...
There is an assumption there that because they are reasonable ranked recruits …they are wanted to be retained

Of course , if two or more of the four are not big ten level players …then we are quickly returning to the issue we had with the classes of 2021,2022
And 2023…talent evaluation issues

If that’s the case …and we again took multiple players that are not at the big ten lebel
….then there is no hope that pike will rebuild this here .

Let’s hope that’s not the case.
Pike has a big contract that won’t be swallowed ….
 
R

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
Scarlet Shack said:
There is an assumption there that because they are reasonable ranked recruits …they are wanted to be retained

Of course , if two or more of the four are not big ten level players …then we are quickly returning to the issue we had with the classes of 2021,2022
And 2023…talent evaluation issues

If that’s the case …and we again took multiple players that are not at the big ten lebel
….then there is no hope that pike will rebuild this here .

Let’s hope that’s not the case.
Pike has a big contract that won’t be swallowed ….
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Most players will not be "big ten level" as freshman, especially bigs. Used to be, you'd develop those players over time and have strong contributing upperclassmen. More and more it's expected those players cut their teeth with other programs, but then they have get past an adjustment period with their new team.

I'd much rather have guys who aren't ready as freshmen and build them into contributors than to rely on "ready" portal products and fitting those new pieces together every year.
 
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T

trotter

All-Conference
Jul 30, 2001
3,453
1,620
93
Lathan doesn’t fit Pike’s system of a defensive rebounding big. Hes only a freshman, and I hope he comes back, but I wouldn’t throw a ton of money at him.
 
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RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
Senior: Derkack, Ogbole
Junior: Davis
Soph: Sommerville, Grant, Dortch
Frosh: Ware, Mark, Powers, Nwuli

Grab 2 guys from the portal.

Williams can grad transfer somewhere.

Even with this, we'd be light on upperclassmen
 
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RAC93

All-Conference
Aug 11, 2023
2,594
4,332
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trotter said:
Lathan doesn’t fit Pike’s system of a defensive rebounding big. Hes only a freshman, and I hope he comes back, but I wouldn’t throw a ton of money at him.
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He’s really more of a power forward than a Center, definitely does not fit the mold of a defensive rebounding big. I like his offensive game, not trashing him, just saying that as a Center for Pike he’s not a great fit. Go get a true Center, then move Lathan to Power forward and now we’re talking.
 
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R

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
RAC93 said:
He’s really more of a power forward than a Center, definitely does not fit the mold of a defensive rebounding big. I like his offensive game, not trashing him, just saying that as a Center for Pike he’s not a great fit. Go get a true Center, then move Lathan to Power forward and now we’re talking.
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Rebounding is a skill that can be taught (unless you are Eddie Jordan, I guess). LS is frequently out of position on defense, which can improve with film study and reps.

He needs to improve his body control, positioning, passing, and decision making.... which are more likely to improve with time than things like FT% and offensive touch around the basket (which he already has).
 
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higgins3

All-Conference
Dec 15, 2012
7,318
2,434
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Pikiell did well when he recruited from HS and built a culture of his players. This year he went outside of what he was used to and now the program is where it is. I still have faith in Pikiell.

I do not believe big NIL money, and having a team of transfer portal players equals success at every level. Do what you know best.
 
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Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,768
11,987
82
RUChoppin said:
Rebounding is a skill that can be taught (unless you are Eddie Jordan, I guess). LS is frequently out of position on defense, which can improve with film study and reps.

He needs to improve his body control, positioning, passing, and decision making.... which are more likely to improve with time than things like FT% and offensive touch around the basket (which he already has).
Click to expand...
I guess Pike forgot to teach these kids how to rebound.
 
J

Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,768
11,987
82
trotter said:
Lathan doesn’t fit Pike’s system of a defensive rebounding big. Hes only a freshman, and I hope he comes back, but I wouldn’t throw a ton of money at him.
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System? Pike needs another rim protector. He got lucky with Cliff and Myles. LS is a throw back 5. Not good for today’s game. But it’s still better than our other options.
 
bac2therac

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
236,592
165,923
113
jtung230 said:
Outside of Grant who is better?
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its not a question of better, its a question of fit, he can do alot things right and be a high volume scorer but does he fit with Pikiell will want to do. I dont think a shoot first undersized big is a plus

did people enjoy his step back 3 vs Oregon.

also I suspect he will demand $$$ upgrade, that is the issue, would the money be better off being put elsewhere
 
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Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
18,768
11,987
82
bac2therac said:
its not a question of better, its a question of fit, he can do alot things right and be a high volume scorer but does he fit with Pikiell will want to do. I dont think a shoot first undersized big is a plus

did people enjoy his step back 3 vs Oregon.
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I don’t disagree. He is an old school 5 that doesn’t fit in college bball. But the question is who’s better. He is a plus compared to the rest of the bigs. If you tell me we got a Myles or Cliff coming in, I’m 100% with you. Dortch is not the answer. EO back will help but he only gets 5 fouls.
 
R

RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
27,734
26,030
113
Any decent player with options is going to be significantly concerned about the rest of the roster.

Coaches can usually sell this and ultimately doesn’t become a decision point in a recruits process (see Dylan and Ace). But with the high visibility of this season I suspect it will become a decision point for recruits with any other option than RU on the table. And it will not be an easy sell for the staff to make.
 
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RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
jtung230 said:
I guess Pike forgot to teach these kids how to rebound.
Click to expand...
Any skill requires practice and time to master, and bigs are generally slower than guards to develop. Hamady N'Diaye was not the same player as an upperclassman vs as a freshman.
 
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RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
27,734
26,030
113
bac2therac said:
Im not convinced we need to retain Lathan
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I would 100% retain Lathan but with the intention of finding a 5 man that you intend to play more minutes than Lathan will. This is how I would approach most players and how I had hoped Pike would have been better at in years prior, including this season.

I think your sentiment is he’s not a must keep if he wants to walk or wants more commitment from pike whether that be minutes or money - and I agree with that. I think he has big question marks going forward.

The question will become can Pike navigate the construction of the roster and player expectations to do this well. He has not shown that in the no sitout rule era.
 
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RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
25,924
12,105
113
Based on what has happened in recent seasons I don't see top tier portal transfers choosing Rutgers for 1-2 years.Yes,playing time is important but being part of a winning team that gets a NCAA bid has to matter in their decision making,
 
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goru7

All-American
Dec 12, 2005
6,048
7,042
113
bac2therac said:
its not a question of better, its a question of fit, he can do alot things right and be a high volume scorer but does he fit with Pikiell will want to do. I dont think a shoot first undersized big is a plus

did people enjoy his step back 3 vs Oregon.

also I suspect he will demand $$$ upgrade, that is the issue, would the money be better off being put elsewhere
Click to expand...
Funny you mention his step back as the shot clock was running down which you forgot to mention , but funnier still you did not comment on his blocked shots on Biddle down low or his fight for rebounds. We didn’t lose Oregon because of anything Lathan did, rather the ridiculous defense from our perimeter guys allowing the raining of 3’s. See what you want to see
 
M

Mr Magoo_rivals90743

Heisman
Nov 15, 2001
15,044
15,615
0
RUChoppin said:
Senior: Derkack, Ogbole
Junior: Davis
Soph: Sommerville, Grant, Dortch
Frosh: Ware, Mark, Powers, Nwuli

Grab 2 guys from the portal.

Williams can grad transfer somewhere.

Even with this, we'd be light on upperclassmen
Click to expand...
Two from the portal, regardless of who they are, with this group and Pike will get us last place in the B1G
 
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