Taking Simon Out

Shelby65

All-Conference
Apr 1, 2008
7,895
4,357
66
If Simon won the game coach could still start Gavin the next game, saying he won the spot in the week practice

Coach can do what ever he wants

Again I would have let Simon have the next drive if it were me
Yes, he could give the job back to GW but it could be challenged publicly and in the locker room. That’s my point. Safer to prevent the possibility of having to deal with that.

Small possibility, but still too much risk for the most risk-averse HC around.
 

RobertG

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
12,810
11,534
113
Is not. Savage was demoted to the ‘third and long’ QB when the Wildcat offense left us too far behind the sticks for another Wildcat run.
Your argument is that Schiano wouldn't bench a 4* because it looks bad. But Schiano did indeed bench a 4* and as the article I posted shows that he benched him for 2* Dodd.

Your argument really doesn't make any sense either historically or logically.
 

yesrutgers01

Heisman
Nov 9, 2008
121,600
37,253
113
No, he benched Savage for the Sanu Wildcat. That’s why Savage left.

That's completely made up ********.
DJ- the guy likes to talk just to talk. And has no clue about the SHAT he throws out there.
Savage got hurt and CD had a couple of good games. Savage never won his job back.

There is also the huge backstory about Tom's personal life that also got into the kid's head and not only messed up his play but caused a big riff with the coach and team. As well as with Tom's Dad getting involved.

The other issue- the OL SUCKED! and TS was a sack maker with a good OL and d was able to escape the rush.

BTW- some of those snaps by the Wisc Center reminded me of Howie's snaps in 2010.
 

DJ Spanky

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
46,411
56,328
113
No, he benched Savage for the Sanu Wildcat. That’s why Savage left.
Is not. Savage was demoted to the ‘third and long’ QB when the Wildcat offense left us too far behind the sticks for another Wildcat run.

Savage's problems were of his own making, he even admitted as much fairly recently. But you keep trying to rewrite history to support your visceral hatred of Schiano.
 

Shelby65

All-Conference
Apr 1, 2008
7,895
4,357
66
Is not only that it looks bad (for future recruits and his own judgment & credibility as a losing coach). Also that there’s the potential to alienate GW if Simon plays well. He’s got too much invested…

Also, consider my RHJ point above. Sometimes other factors….

I think Simon deserved to stay in the game. But Schiano has bigger issues to deal with.
 

RobertG

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
12,810
11,534
113
Is not only that it looks bad (for future recruits and his own judgment & credibility as a losing coach). Also that there’s the potential to alienate GW if Simon plays well. He’s got too much invested…

Also, consider my RHJ point above. Sometimes other factors….

I think Simon deserved to stay in the game. But Schiano has bigger issues to deal with.
Winning solves all. Coaches don't give up wins for other issues.
 

Big boy stan

All-Conference
Oct 9, 2017
950
1,286
93
I dont pretend to say I have more information on either QB or more football knowledge than GS. I do know that I was disappointed as a fan when Gavin came back out as I really wanted to see what Simon could do. If we are basing Simon strictly on last year's play then Gavin shouldn't be out there either based on 2022.

As far as QB controversies go, Schiano could easily pull Gavin for safety reason after that hit and put him back in this week.
 
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RUfromNJ

All-Conference
Oct 23, 2007
4,449
3,141
0
Am I the only one who attended the Nebraska game last year?

Could have sworn there were other people there.
Exactly. Simon led a nice, abbreviated TD drive, but let's not re-write history either.

In games not against Wagner in '22, he was 69/125 for 626 yards, 2 TDs and 6 INTs.

I get that we live in a constant state of QB shellshock here, but unless Wimsatt couldn't go, Simon should not be in the game.
 

Bagarocks

Heisman
Jun 25, 2006
12,273
12,869
113
Don’t be naive. is fact. you think a coach will ever bench the new contract 20 million dollar player in favor of the minimum pay guy ? It’s the same idea here. Too much invested in one player to risk credibility and judgment attacks.

Do I think Simon deserved another series ? Yes. But I have no skin in the decision. That’s just not how coaching works. Fact. There’s a lot more to PT decisions than meets the eye.

For example…a very bad look for a coach desperate to attract 4* then bench him. Might scare the next one off. Or let’s say RHJ was slumping. With Dylan a major target, do think Pikiell would ever not start Ron ? Of course not.

Now, if this were Year 7 Schiano might be more desperate but he doesn’t have any pressure to win now. It’s why Simon didn’t get another snap.

Schiano doubled-down and nipped that possibility in the bud. Plain and simple.

Imagine the stain if GW were to transfer out.
You cant have an NFL mindset to explain what a college coach does, its apples and oranges.
 

yesrutgers01

Heisman
Nov 9, 2008
121,600
37,253
113
I see the jokes in this thread .
But schiano has a long history of choosing the wrong quarterback .
05- nice transition from Hart to Teel
06 - I guess you were calling for Jabu?
07 - Dammit- why won't he start Jabu? WTF?
08- Teel again. He hates Jabu- but why isn't he starting the big time transfer out of MST
09 - See- Finally, he started the right guy- go Dominick - WTF? Why did he start this bum, I knew all along Savage should be the starter!
10- Savage sucks- why didn't he give Dodd a shot?
11 - Finally, my boy Dodd. Wow- wait- why is he starting this bum Nova?

Yep- always the wrong guy
 

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
11,743
10,866
78
I see the jokes in this thread .
But schiano has a long history of choosing the wrong quarterback .

I don’t think this was a case of right or wrong. We all saw the Nebraska game and there is absolutely no reason to believe based on Evan’s performance Saturday that his ability to cleanly throw the ball away in the face of pressure has improved since that game. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t improved, but nothing about Saturday gave any hint of that. Evan had all day to complete those throws. The problem is, Gavin also had ample time to make his throws in this particular game and still struggled with accuracy. So the question to mull over is this - maybe something has changed since Nebraska. I’m not talking about Evan - I’m talking about our pass blocking improving year over year. With better pass blocking, Evan could be a lot more effective. Now he still can’t run, or run the RPOs. So there are trade offs for sure.
 
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Samson1975!!!

Junior
Nov 22, 2022
300
296
63
To me the problem was Kyle ran 8 times for 16 yards. ND could not run ball on Saturday and Hartman looked terrible. Need to run better.
Being able to pass at the start of the game would open things up for the run. Remember fans claiming 46 yards against VT was the game plan? Opponents are going to stack the box now and dare Rutgers to pass for the rest of the season.
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

Heisman
Sep 11, 2006
123,974
19,585
0
We have seen Simon look good before.. then throw the head-scratcher. That said, he should have been given the rest of the game because Wimsatt went out hurt and, I think, the game was mostly out of reach and the way both played.. I would think Simon gave us the better shot at that point.

So why bring Wimsatt back? Two possibilities... Wimsatt was scared that Simon did well and wanted back in. And/or the coaches truly believe in Wimsatt and want him here next year... and if they opened the possibilities of a QB controversy at this point, then we'd see some kind of transfer portal activity at the end of the year.

Tough to be a coach these days.
 

Extra Point_rivals157299

All-Conference
Aug 9, 2001
13,169
4,691
0
I would have kept Wimsatt out for another series, just to be sure he was okay. As far as QB play, Wimsatt gives us the best chance to win. He played a good game for the most part.
 

RUTGERS95

Heisman
Sep 28, 2005
26,501
35,721
113
We had the decision to put Sitkowski back in booed, after he missed a play or two with an injury
I doubt that would have happened here, had the game been at home, but there may have been a bit of it

And as I have said in the past, it should be ok to boo a coaching decision, but not a player. But you can’t separate the intention of the booing from the player or coach, so it looks bad in all cases, therefore, you can’t do it
of course you can boo, we're all adults playing/paying/earning at a sport event

team is well compensated, Greg is incredibly overpaid, and their only job is to win. Boo away, I don't care what you or anyone else does.
 
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MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
30,630
15,607
113
of course you can boo, we're all adults playing/paying/earning at a sport event

team is well compensated, Greg is incredibly overpaid, and their only job is to win. Boo away, I don't care what you or anyone else does.

Big Ten football coach salary rankings 2023​

  • Ryan Day, Ohio State: $10,196,250
  • Mel Tucker, Michigan State: $10,015,350*
  • James Franklin, Penn State: $8,500,000
  • Jim Harbaugh, Michigan: $8,194,000
  • Luke Fickell, Wisconsin: $7,625,000
  • Kirk Ferentz, Iowa: $7,000,000
  • Bret Bielema, Illinois: $6,500,000
  • P.J. Fleck, Minnesota: $6,000,000
  • Matt Rhule, Nebraska: $5,500,000
  • Mike Locksley, Maryland: $5,500,000
  • Tom Allen, Indiana: $4,510,000
  • Ryan Walters, Purdue: $4,000,000
  • Greg Schiano, Rutgers: $4,000,000
  • David Braun, Northwestern: unknown*
 
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Nov 9, 2016
164
285
0
I wonder if GW would possibly leave if he was not given the starting job in the summer. I think neither of them are good enough, but if GW leaves, then it is REALLL thin at QB. Just speculation of course. Top programs do not take 3 seasons to develop a QB. They either have it or they don’t.
 
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wheezer

Heisman
Jun 3, 2001
169,150
24,757
113
of course you can boo, we're all adults playing/paying/earning at a sport event

team is well compensated, Greg is incredibly overpaid, and their only job is to win. Boo away, I don't care what you or anyone else does.
There was the controversy when it came to Art, that he came back into a game after a temporary injury,
Many fans booed, and it was directed at the coaching staff, fans wanted the backup to get a chance
But, of course , some fans thought it was directed at Art, which I contend, it was not
Fans have not booed individual players

But you could not convince the negative attitude posters

This is why booing can be misinterpreted
and should be avoided as best it can
 
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Pils86

All-Conference
Sep 21, 2008
1,766
1,315
0
Exactly. Simon led a nice, abbreviated TD drive, but let's not re-write history either.

In games not against Wagner in '22, he was 69/125 for 626 yards, 2 TDs and 6 INTs.

I get that we live in a constant state of QB shellshock here, but unless Wimsatt couldn't go, Simon should not be in the game.
Simon and Wimsatt both threw 12 times against Wagner last year, Simon was good in that game and Wimsatt was not. For the year Simon QB rating was 106.2, Wimsatt 90.4. Simon had a bad game against Nebraska and I don't feel he has been given a fair chance since, and there was some questionable playcalling in that game. I also hear others parroting Simon cannot help with his legs, while not considered a dual threat he is not a statue either, I think he has at least the athleticism as Mordecai who torched us.
 

RUTGERS95

Heisman
Sep 28, 2005
26,501
35,721
113
There was the controversy when it came to Art, that he came back into a game after a temporary injury,
Many fans booed, and it was directed at the coaching staff, fans wanted the backup to get a chance
But, of course , some fans thought it was directed at Art, which I contend, it was not
Fans have not booed individual players

But you could not convince the negative attitude posters

This is why booing can be misinterpreted
and should be avoided as best it can
well you do you and I'll do me and he'll do him and she'll do her. Booing serves a purpose, like it or not

as I said, I don't care what anyone else does. Boo away if that is what you want to do
 
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Pils86

All-Conference
Sep 21, 2008
1,766
1,315
0
I don’t think this was a case of right or wrong. We all saw the Nebraska game and there is absolutely no reason to believe based on Evan’s performance Saturday that his ability to cleanly throw the ball away in the face of pressure has improved since that game. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t improved, but nothing about Saturday gave any hint of that. Evan had all day to complete those throws. The problem is, Gavin also had ample time to make his throws in this particular game and still struggled with accuracy. So the question to mull over is this - maybe something has changed since Nebraska. I’m not talking about Evan - I’m talking about our pass blocking improving year over year. With better pass blocking, Evan could be a lot more effective. Now he still can’t run, or run the RPOs. So there are trade offs for sure.
You need to rewatch the TD throw, he had a DL charging and properly slid over to get a throwing lane and hit Young in stride.
 

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
11,743
10,866
78
Simon and Wimsatt both threw 12 times against Wagner last year, Simon was good in that game and Wimsatt was not. For the year Simon QB rating was 106.2, Wimsatt 90.4. Simon had a bad game against Nebraska and I don't feel he has been given a fair chance since, and there was some questionable playcalling in that game. I also hear others parroting Simon cannot help with his legs, while not considered a dual threat he is not a statue either, I think he has at least the athleticism as Mordecai who torched us.
Simon is not a running QB. He’s not going to be as good as Gavin at scrambling for yards to avoid sacks. He’s not who you want running RPOs either. Nebraska was his only all round “bad game” but he consistently struggled when teams were able to apply pressure in other games too. Some of our fans blamed the OL for his and Wimsatt’s issues last year. Some of it was on the OL, but the line was improved in pass protection from prior years. A decent QB would’ve been able to manage the game - even a pre injury Vedral level decision maker. We didn’t have that. It seems like Wimsatt might be there now. I have no idea where Evan is at with decision making under pressure. I’d like to believe that if he’s much improved with that he’d be starting because he clearly has the more accurate arm when he has time. That’s not based on only Saturday but also last year.
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

Heisman
Sep 11, 2006
123,974
19,585
0
DJ- the guy likes to talk just to talk. And has no clue about the SHAT he throws out there.
Savage got hurt and CD had a couple of good games. Savage never won his job back.

There is also the huge backstory about Tom's personal life that also got into the kid's head and not only messed up his play but caused a big riff with the coach and team. As well as with Tom's Dad getting involved.

The other issue- the OL SUCKED! and TS was a sack maker with a good OL and d was able to escape the rush.

BTW- some of those snaps by the Wisc Center reminded me of Howie's snaps in 2010.
Truth.. Savage.. like Sitkowski later.. got ROCKED by blitzes and to their credit, they would step into a rusher while making throws. It was rough. Both saw many drops after they sacrificed their bodies as well. BTW.. Sanu's breakout year as a WR, and last, was 2011 after Savage had left. I'm glad Savage eventually got a taste of the NFL.
 
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GoodOl'Rutgers

Heisman
Sep 11, 2006
123,974
19,585
0
Simon is not a running QB. He’s not going to be as good as Gavin at scrambling for yards to avoid sacks. He’s not who you want running RPOs either. Nebraska was his only all round “bad game” but he consistently struggled when teams were able to apply pressure in other games too. Some of our fans blamed the OL for his and Wimsatt’s issues last year. Some of it was on the OL, but the line was improved in pass protection from prior years. A decent QB would’ve been able to manage the game - even a pre injury Vedral level decision maker. We didn’t have that. It seems like Wimsatt might be there now. I have no idea where Evan is at with decision making under pressure. I’d like to believe that if he’s much improved with that he’d be starting because he clearly has the more accurate arm when he has time. That’s not based on only Saturday but also last year.
Hmm.. maybe we need to run Simon in a traditional QB run way.. draws, bootlegs... and see if he can be the one Rutgers QB in the last 10 years who could complete a screen pass... to the right team. Find ways to slow down pass rushes aimed at a pocket passer.

As it is, we do not run Wimsatt in a way that might fool the defense and slow down a pass rush. This baffles me to no end. If he ALWAYS hands off.. then the DE or OLB can just crash down the LOS and ignore the QB once it looks like a handoff. Really.. we have to be more deceptive.. we are giving away leverage and the initiative over to the defense.
 

Dadiofadio

Redshirt
Sep 22, 2008
6
7
0
Not sure how anyone can sit here and confidently say that GW is the better QB. After two years playing together in the same offense, for the same coach and behind the same line Simon has the better numbers. GWs completion % is horrible and he remains in the bottom third of the big10 QB rankings. He has been in the system for three years and has not show any real improvement. Yes he may be a better runner, but not enough to over shadow his deficiencies.
 

cRURah

All-Conference
Nov 13, 2004
4,845
3,800
62
Don’t be naive. is fact. you think a coach will ever bench the new contract 20 million dollar player in favor of the minimum pay guy ? It’s the same idea here. Too much invested in one player to risk credibility and judgment attacks.

Do I think Simon deserved another series ? Yes. But I have no skin in the decision. That’s just not how coaching works. Fact. There’s a lot more to PT decisions than meets the eye.

For example…a very bad look for a coach desperate to attract 4* then bench him. Might scare the next one off. Or let’s say RHJ was slumping. With Dylan a major target, do think Pikiell would ever not start Ron ? Of course not.

Now, if this were Year 7 Schiano might be more desperate but he doesn’t have any pressure to win now. It’s why Simon didn’t get another snap.

Schiano doubled-down and nipped that possibility in the bud. Plain and simple.

Imagine the stain if GW were to transfer out.
please see SF 49er’s. not only did they bench their first round slot #4 qb in favor of a nobody, they basically gave him away to another team.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,271
0
Ledger was beyond brilliant in that movie. I was blown away by his performance and I'm pretty jaded about movies having seen so many now.

And then he had to off himself. Very sad.
 
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