Tariffs....so what now ?

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Aug 15, 2006
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I will leave the what’s legal arguments to others, but from someone that worked in American manufacturing for almost 45 years, some sort of tariffs or road blocks are desperately needed to help American manufacturing survive and hopefully prosper. I could write a book about Companies in China and other places coping our designs and stealing our customers with much cheaper products and prices. We had cases in 2 different companies I worked for where the Chinese Companies actually used our Company name and part numbers on their products. Today’s decision will significantly hurt opportunities for local companies to compete and hire additional employees. Long term, the situation we find ourselves in today is bad for manufacturing and bad for the Country.
You're incorrect. Talk to ANY auto worker that works in the factory, especially how tariffs have affected them.
I have two Ford worker buds that are now on unemployment because of the tariffs damage to Ford specfically.
They have worked at Ford for over 20 yrs and have told me countless stories of them being sent home because of delays in products due to tariffs. IT's been a total clusterphuck.
 
Aug 15, 2006
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I agree with Clarence Thomas on this matter. Congress granted the president the authority to control importation. This control includes the power to impose duties. Duties and tariffs are the same. Eta Any honest person would read the statutes and agree that those words mean what they say. Typically some people would say here you control it. Oh wait not like that. Im fairly pleased with falling inflation and growing GDP as well as the Dow Jones. But hey let's do our best to 17 that up
Falling inflation!??!
WHERE THE PHUCK DO YOU LIVE?
 

L4Dawg

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I agree with Clarence Thomas on this matter. Congress granted the president the authority to control importation. This control includes the power to impose duties. Duties and tariffs are the same. Eta Any honest person would read the statutes and agree that those words mean what they say. Typically some people would say here you control it. Oh wait not like that. Im fairly pleased with falling inflation and growing GDP as well as the Dow Jones. But hey let's do our best to 17 that up
The Constitution specifically assigns the power of taxation to Congress. Tariffs are taxes.
 

paindonthurt

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The damage has been done already.
So, yay.
This is worse than Germany, we have a sitting president stealing money from us, taxpayers. See tariffs, see $10B lawsuit that he "won" against himself, see $10B for the Board of Dictators aka Peace Board.
It's all a ruse...and yet morons STILL don't see it.
🙄🤣
 
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paindonthurt

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I dont think tariffs are the answer for the problems you are describing. US and international trade and IP laws address that type of copying.

Perhaps Tariffs do help "local companies to compete and hire additional employees". Today's decision does not stop that from happening. Today's decision confirms the tariff power belongs to Congress.

If you support these broad tariffs (and Im not arguing against tariffs at all here) then write your congressman and get the ball rolling.
IP laws mean nothing to China. FACT.
 
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L4Dawg

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So you are saying the law says something about the scale?
Yes. That's the way it has ALWAYS been interpreted. This was blatantly illegal and unconstitutional. It was known from the start by almost everyone that it wouldn't stand up in court.
 

3407Dewey

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Trump has talked about the US being ripped off by other countries for decades. We have been on the underside of every trade deal going all the way back to the early 90's. Why should the US fund the world? It has contributed to the massive national debt....that, and being sneaky corrupt with our tax dollars.
Yes, he talked about it and people ate it up. But somehow we're both simultaneously always getting ripped off and the most prosperous country in the world ever.
 

Willow Grove Dawg

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If we are being honest the GOP has been infiltrated by MAGA. One man's brand. MAGA doesn't stand on traditional GOP values, nor promote the GOP in any way. They simply use the power that controlling one of two parties affords. They don't even pretend any more to hold traditional conservative values. I would argue that Republicans are not in favor, but the Republican party doesn't currently contain enough Republicans to matter...
I am lifelong GOP and could not agree with you more.

Likewise the Democrats have been infiltrated/infected by radical leftists

Unfortunately a large portion of this country resides in the middle probably more middle right than true middle and neither party serves this group. We need a movement by Radical Moderates with some common sense.
 
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HRMSU

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all branches of the government have pure motives and trustworthy people in place, 100%
No, that's Socialism and Communism.....it's perfect with good hearted honest government officials that are pure as angels just wanting to help the workers and not really interested in the absolute power they have.
 

HRMSU

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If we are being honest the GOP has been infiltrated by MAGA. One man's brand. MAGA doesn't stand on traditional GOP values, nor promote the GOP in any way. They simply use the power that controlling one of two parties affords. They don't even pretend any more to hold traditional conservative values. I would argue that Republicans are not in favor, but the Republican party doesn't currently contain enough Republicans to matter...
I think that is somewhat fair but man have you seen who has taken over the Democratic party? Geesh they don't even hide it as they are proud Socialists....Democratic Socialists. I say throw both groups out and let's move back to the center with very few major differences in the parties....those days are probably over.
 

HRMSU

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Trump has talked about the US being ripped off by other countries for decades. We have been on the underside of every trade deal going all the way back to the early 90's. Why should the US fund the world? It has contributed to the massive national debt....that, and being sneaky corrupt with our tax dollars.
The Globalist religion started in the 90s under the guise of economic efficiency. Along with all the jobs we exported our prosperity while contributing to building up China. What a disaster. Wall Street chased the profits and the cultural globalists types chased the one world con.
 

00Dawg

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We rip ourselves off when we believe that it is possible to manufacture certain commodity items in the US affordably and it is not. The entire US population votes with their wallet when pushed to consider an expensive US product vs a cheap Chinese one, when the cost difference is significant.
Entire is a strong word. I regularly am willing to pay 25-40% more for a number of items just to avoid buying Chinese crap, and have done so every time I can....Speed Queen washing machine, Braun shavers, and specific brands of tech hardware jump immediately to mind. However, most of the time there is simply no other option.

As far as tariffs go, this is one of those subjects where modern technology has rendered a traditional approach obsolete. In a perfect world, sure, Congress should control tariff policy. However, that system is not capable of responding in a timely manner to a topic that needs to change in a matter of days, not months. Would be best if they went ahead and delegated to the Executive, but we know that's not happening, either.
 

L4Dawg

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Yes, he talked about it and people ate it up. But somehow we're both simultaneously always getting ripped off and the most prosperous country in the world ever.
Yep. Trump is trying to blow up the economic system that made this country the richest and most prosperous the world has ever seen. It was set up greatly to our benefit. My biggest question is WHY is he doing it? It makes no sense whatsoever.
 

ckDOG

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So you are saying the law says something about the scale?
IEEPA doesn't have a scale for tariffs. It's not meant for tariffs and why no previous president used it for such. There are other ways that Congress has delegated tariffing powers to the President but there are restrictions and involve Congress as a sign off to an extent.

Don wanted the power to tariff whomever for however long for whatever rate for any reason. That doesn't exist for the President via constitution nor had it been delegated to him. So he pretended IEEPA did in a Hail Mary and hoped the courts would validate him. He got rightly checked here. He still has other options but he's been reigned in back to where he needs to be.

Just plain stupid that he went through all these motions creating the mess that it did on a long shot legal theory. Tariffs impact everyone.
 

mstateglfr

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There are three other sections in the constitution that will allow the tariffs to go forth. That's why Trump wasn't worried.
Why werent those other sections used then? Seems foolish to use a controversial(and clearly improper to many) justification when there are three legitimate ways for the tariffs to 'go forth'.
 

horshack.sixpack

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Entire is a strong word. I regularly am willing to pay 25-40% more for a number of items just to avoid buying Chinese crap, and have done so every time I can....Speed Queen washing machine, Braun shavers, and specific brands of tech hardware jump immediately to mind. However, most of the time there is simply no other option.

As far as tariffs go, this is one of those subjects where modern technology has rendered a traditional approach obsolete. In a perfect world, sure, Congress should control tariff policy. However, that system is not capable of responding in a timely manner to a topic that needs to change in a matter of days, not months. Would be best if they went ahead and delegated to the Executive, but we know that's not happening, either.
Agree. Some higher priced items are quality and worth it. Some are commodity and difficult to even approach the overseas price.
 

mstateglfr

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Too bad that if the money is refunded it won't go to the people who actually spent the money on them .....US .
I was repeatedly told the other countries pay tariffs. So US consumers and businesses shouldnt get refunds since US consumers and businesses havent paid for the tariffs.
Refunds should go to the companies in other countries that paid the tariffs, right?...right?!?!
 

mstateglfr

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The ongoing problem is how cozy the legislative branch usually is with the executive. When both are under control of the same party, there is no separation. The legislature becomes a bill factory for the executive to sign.
I agree with your post's point, but the red part doesnt align with what has happened here. The legislature and executive are the same party, yet the legislature hasnt been a 'bill factory'. The legislature has actually been anything but a bill factory. If the legislature had set these tariffs, we wouldnt be talking about this SCOTUS decision right now.
 
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thatsbaseball

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Why werent those other sections used then? Seems foolish to use a controversial(and clearly improper to many) justification when there are three legitimate ways for the tariffs to 'go forth'.
"Why werent those other sections used then?"
Because they aren't flexible enough to allow the president to enact tariffs and change them on a whim .
 
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maroonmania

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Feb 23, 2008
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Interesting. I would argue our judicial branch has possibly overstepped its purview, not in this particular instance, but in others. Imagine a world where judges just applied the law and legislators made the law. Seems like they each would rather do the other's job sometimes.
The judicial branch of government is the one that seems to have no checks. See the NCAA rulings as a prime example. Lifetime appointments on the Supreme Court are ridiculous. And a lot them refuse to retire even when well up into their 80s.
 

mstateglfr

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Trump has talked about the US being ripped off by other countries for decades. We have been on the underside of every trade deal going all the way back to the early 90's. Why should the US fund the world? It has contributed to the massive national debt....that, and being sneaky corrupt with our tax dollars.

A trade deficit is different from a subsidy. This goes back to prior to Trump taking office when he claimed multiple times that we are subsidizing various countries due to having a trade deficit.

- A subsidy can be us giving money away for nothing. That is funding another country.
- A trade deficit is when we purchase more goods from a country than we sell to that country. We are getting something for that money...the goods that have been purchased. And when those goods are raw materials, we then produce finished goods and sell those for higher value which more than justifies that initial trade deficit(crude from Canada, for example).


I have a trade deficit with my grocer, but that doesnt mean I am funding/subsidizing my grocer- it just means I buy more from the grocer than I sell to the grocer. I am not being ripped off by the grocer due to having that trade deficit because I have gained food in the transaction. The grocer gained money and I gained food. Both of us benefit, yet a trade deficit exists.
 

JackShephard

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I just don't understand why it's so hard for so many of you all to understand that this is a sports message board and not a politics board. If yall love talking politics so much, there are plenty of places where you can go and discuss it. 95% of us come here for.....gasp....SPORTS. Leave the garbage at the door.

I also don't understand why it gets allowed so much. Every political thread eventually gets locked anyway, so why don't the mods just lock them as soon as they pop up and set the tone?
 
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ckDOG

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The judicial branch of government is the one that seems to have no checks. See the NCAA rulings as a prime example. Lifetime appointments on the Supreme Court are ridiculous. And a lot them refuse to retire even when well up into their 80s.
Congress can impeach or write new laws. We can amend the constitution. Those are excellent checks against the judicial. Bigger problem is we elect a bunch of do-nothings in Congress so the checks are less likely to ever be used. That's not a design flaw though. It's people problem (garbage in garbage out).
 

L4Dawg

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I just don't understand why it's so hard for so many of you all to understand that this is a sports message board and not a politics board. If yall love talking politics so much, there are plenty of places where you can go and discuss it. 95% of us come here for.....gasp....SPORTS. Leave the garbage at the door.

I also don't understand why it gets allowed so much. Every political thread eventually gets locked anyway, so why don't the mods just lock them as soon as they pop up and set the tone?
You don’t have to read it if you don’t want to.
 

Dawgzilla2

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I agree with Clarence Thomas on this matter. Congress granted the president the authority to control importation. This control includes the power to impose duties. Duties and tariffs are the same. Eta Any honest person would read the statutes and agree that those words mean what they say. Typically some people would say here you control it. Oh wait not like that. Im fairly pleased with falling inflation and growing GDP as well as the Dow Jones. But hey let's do our best to 17 that up
What some "honest people" disagree with is the assumption that the power to regulate importation inherently includes the power to impose duties. The crux of the opinion is that Congress does not delegate the power to impose duties without saying so.

It may seem weird that POTUS can completely halt imports, but cannot charge fees, but thats the interpretation

Just FYI IEEPA gives POTUS the power to
"investigate, block during the pendency of an investigation, regulate, direct and compel, nullify, void, prevent or prohibit, any acquisition, holding, withholding, use, transfer, withdrawal, transportation, importation or exportation of, or dealing in, or exercising any right, power, or privilege with respect to, or transactions involving, any property in which any foreign country or a national thereof has any interest"
 

Howiefeltersnstch

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Wha
The Constitution specifically assigns the power of taxation to Congress. Tariffs are taxes.
What are duties then ? I guess since they are a tax paid by the American consumer after they are eliminated instead of 2.4% inflation we will be a -3% deflation ?? Explain that for me
 

GloryDawg

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Why werent those other sections used then? Seems foolish to use a controversial(and clearly improper to many) justification when there are three legitimate ways for the tariffs to 'go forth'
Dragging it out. Get the one that would most likely not get past the supreme court out of the way first. My guess.
 

ckDOG

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It's really hard to follow this ranting and rambling in his presser, but I think he said we are going to do 10% global tariffs under another statute. Which is his right to use that statute. Probably the trade act of 1974. If it is, those expire after 150 days. So, great job making a 10% tax a mid term issue. Bold move. Let's see how that works out.
 

mstateglfr

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Dragging it out. Get the one that would most likely not get past the supreme court out of the way first. My guess.
I am not arguing with you, please know. I am just not understanding the strategy you are guessing they are following.

- Why drag it out?...I dont understand how that is beneficial for the Administration, US companies, or US consumers.
- Why not just utilize and cite the approach that would most likely be defensible and hold up to scrutiny? It seems wildly inefficient and chaotic to do anything other than citing the most defensible justification.


Starting with the least defensible option causes chaos, uncertainty, countless millions in legal work, and social division. I dont see the upside to doing this.
 

Howiefeltersnstch

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Falling inflation!??!
WHERE THE PHUCK DO YOU LIVE?
Do you not watch the news ? Try reading some economic reports on inflation and the GDP. Do you expect prices to drop ?? That would be negative growth. 2.4% is much better than 9% we had 2 years ago. Maybe you need to learn some fiscal responsibility.
 

Barkman Turner Overdrive

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If we are being honest the GOP has been infiltrated by MAGA. One man's brand. MAGA doesn't stand on traditional GOP values, nor promote the GOP in any way. They simply use the power that controlling one of two parties affords. They don't even pretend any more to hold traditional conservative values. I would argue that Republicans are not in favor, but the Republican party doesn't currently contain enough Republicans to matter...
Wait until we get into another disastrous Middle East war. The Republican Party may become so unpopular it will become a minor party (not to be confused with the minority party/party of opposition) or will have to totally rebrand itself like it did between the end Bush 43's second term and 2015.
 

L4Dawg

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It's really hard to follow this ranting and rambling in his presser, but I think he said we are going to do 10% global tariffs under another statute. Which is his right to use that statute. Probably the trade act of 1974. If it is, those expire after 150 days. So, great job making a 10% tax a mid term issue. Bold move. Let's see how that works out.


That will likely be struck down too if he does it repeatedly.
 

ckDOG

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Why werent those other sections used then? Seems foolish to use a controversial(and clearly improper to many) justification when there are three legitimate ways for the tariffs to 'go forth'.
He wanted no restrictions. The others statutes have stipulations and can require Congress to extend after a period of time. IEEPA was a Hail Mary to remove Congress or restrictions entirely. He's surrounded by yes men or people that have very aggressive (some say crackpot) legal theories. Apparently, nobody explained this route was a bad idea.
 
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