Thanks Coach34
- Thread starter MagnificentBastard
- Start date
well it wasn't ray's fault that they were on the roster and not disciplined before he arrived. i'm sure he knew which players had tested positive, but it wasn't "his guys", so yeah, he might have expected that giving them 1 last ultimatum and a fresh start with a new HC might have gotten them to straighten up. they didn't. it also wasn't like he had an opportunity to really replace them on the roster either.
is it possible to think it was time for stans to go and still not have been happy with the ray hire? i view the forced retirement and the bungled coaching search as separate, independent events.
is it always possible to think ray was a questionable hire, but completely understand that a large majority of the roster issues in the 2012-2013 were beyond his control and that this is pretty much a lost year and it's impossible to really gauge his coaching ability this year? (which is really unfortunate for the program because now he likely gets an extra year to turn things around, whether he has the HC ability to do it or not, so it's possible we invest 1 extra year in a dead end hire because his 1st season was such a disaster)
is it always possible to think ray was a questionable hire, but completely understand that a large majority of the roster issues in the 2012-2013 were beyond his control and that this is pretty much a lost year and it's impossible to really gauge his coaching ability this year? (which is really unfortunate for the program because now he likely gets an extra year to turn things around, whether he has the HC ability to do it or not, so it's possible we invest 1 extra year in a dead end hire because his 1st season was such a disaster)
We expected habitual offenders to counted upon to help us through a rough year and renewed their scholarships instead of trying to get other players?
This is sounding more and more intelligent by the minute.
This is sounding more and more intelligent by the minute.
It's very possible to think it was time for Stans to go and still not be happy with the hire we made. However, a lot of people had fooled themselves into thinking that the MSU job was going to be an attractive job an we'd just be able to make a good hire easily. I told everyone on this board for 2 years that we'd have trouble finding good coaches that were interested in our job and I was right about that. For the record, I like Ray and I liked the hire. But I don't think our fanbase is going to give him a legitimate chance to get the job done.
absolutely. Ray was most definitely not my preferred choice. But I am willing to give him a few years to see if he can get the job done. With the attrition and injuries, this year has become a complete freebie for him. And has probably earned him a 4th season regardless.
Ray was brought in to change the entire culture of the program. And he is. Blaming people that can't stop smoking dope on him is the dumbest **** I've ever heard. Stansbury allowing that **** is why we are where we are.
So... I hear a lot of bitching about Ray, but who could we have gotten that would have been better?
Stansbury, despite having a string of winning seasons, ran this program into the ground.
If you want to tell me that you'll take Twitter battles (Ravern), "he didn't return my phone call" BS (Turner), fatasses wearing wifebeaters punching each other in Hawaii (Sidney/Bailey), and losses to East Tennessee State, Rider, Auburn, Miami OH over a loss to Alabama A&M in a rebuilding year, then you're either insane, an *******, a malcontent, an idiot, or some combination of the four.
Stansbury, despite having a string of winning seasons, ran this program into the ground.
If you want to tell me that you'll take Twitter battles (Ravern), "he didn't return my phone call" BS (Turner), fatasses wearing wifebeaters punching each other in Hawaii (Sidney/Bailey), and losses to East Tennessee State, Rider, Auburn, Miami OH over a loss to Alabama A&M in a rebuilding year, then you're either insane, an *******, a malcontent, an idiot, or some combination of the four.
Just so I am clear on this... New coach comes in and clears most of the staff but had keep all the players without question, in spite of their past transgressions that were evidently known about. If that is the case, I will drop it.
what was he supposed to do? he already had a completely depleted roster. there was no way we could cut an extra couple of kids and find even more recruits worth spending a scholarship on. and i think most every coach in CBB would come into a job and give the problem kids a chance to start over with a clean slate to see if they'd straighten out. obviously they didn't and we had to move on. but if you think cutting them in the spring would have magically brought us a couple of major conference caliber recruits to fill in their spots, then you are off your meds.
No, I'm sure they expected the kids to get their heads straight
and actually listen to their coaches. Kids get in trouble all the time, are warned that the next offense will result in suspension or expulsion, and get their **** together.
Congrats, you have now argued both sides: First you think that Ray should not have kicked them off and is too much of a hardass about it. Second you say well maybe he should have kicked them off at the first offense. You could not make a dumber argument on this topic if you asked a three year old to make it for you.
Ray may or may not be the correct hire in the end, but he inherited these issues. These kids did not become trouble makers and malcontents after Ray got here. They were that way because Stansbury didn't give two ***** what these kids did. The inmates have been running the asylum for years now. Even if it sucks this year, its refreshing to see the warden take back control.
and actually listen to their coaches. Kids get in trouble all the time, are warned that the next offense will result in suspension or expulsion, and get their **** together.
Congrats, you have now argued both sides: First you think that Ray should not have kicked them off and is too much of a hardass about it. Second you say well maybe he should have kicked them off at the first offense. You could not make a dumber argument on this topic if you asked a three year old to make it for you.
Ray may or may not be the correct hire in the end, but he inherited these issues. These kids did not become trouble makers and malcontents after Ray got here. They were that way because Stansbury didn't give two ***** what these kids did. The inmates have been running the asylum for years now. Even if it sucks this year, its refreshing to see the warden take back control.
Well, we won't know if we could have found more recruits or not. We have before as have other coaches who have some experience under their belt at the helm.
I will let this drop because I am out numbered here and no one seems to understand my point that you cannot excuse everything for a year for someone you hired to do a job just because his predecessor 17ed it up. This is not like trying to flush and refill a football or baseball team of players. When we lose to Alabama a&m and people tell me to not worry about it, it kinda pisses me off. But that's just me I guess.
I will let this drop because I am out numbered here and no one seems to understand my point that you cannot excuse everything for a year for someone you hired to do a job just because his predecessor 17ed it up. This is not like trying to flush and refill a football or baseball team of players. When we lose to Alabama a&m and people tell me to not worry about it, it kinda pisses me off. But that's just me I guess.
Maybe I need to be a three year old to understand this but exactly where did I say he was a hard *** and should have not kicked them off? Please show me the post in which I said this. I think I made the case over and over again that maybe they should have been shown the door to begin with. If you are hired to take over a job, it is up to you on which people you keep and which you kick.
But I get it, I get it. No matter how low we sink or what happens this season, Ray has no responsibility for running his own ship since it was the ship that Stan left. I sincerely hope if I ever have to get a new job I get to work for one of you guys because I know I won't have to be responsible for anything that happens in the first year since I can just blame it all on that guy that was there before me.
Oh and congrats on getting the C34 seal of approval for your post. You must be proud.
Wow. It is baffling how hard this is to grasp for some people. No one. Let me repeat. No one. Is happy about losing to a SWAC team. It is inexcusable. But you cannot fire a coach you just hired. A coach who inherited as many worthless sacks of **** posing as basketball players as Ray did. A coach who inherited a team full of people who figure it is okay to break the rules because the former coach never did **** to stop them.
My entire point is that he had no reason to come in guns ablazing and kick off everyone just because he's heard that they have issues. He is a new coach. It became a new team when he took over. Every player from the point of his hire on should have, and likely did, get a clean slate. When they **** up after that, then that is on them, not the new coach. He did the right thing by letting them go. Stansbury would have said "aw shucks, you guys are alright, lets go out and play some uninspired basketball and then have a fight in the stands afterwards".
So yes, losing to a SWAC team is on him. But he also has to be given a chance to play the games with a team that has a chance. Right now we do not have a team that has a chance. And its too early to place all that blame on him. Next year it begins to be a different story. I'm not saying he should get forever to turn it around.
My entire point is that he had no reason to come in guns ablazing and kick off everyone just because he's heard that they have issues. He is a new coach. It became a new team when he took over. Every player from the point of his hire on should have, and likely did, get a clean slate. When they **** up after that, then that is on them, not the new coach. He did the right thing by letting them go. Stansbury would have said "aw shucks, you guys are alright, lets go out and play some uninspired basketball and then have a fight in the stands afterwards".
So yes, losing to a SWAC team is on him. But he also has to be given a chance to play the games with a team that has a chance. Right now we do not have a team that has a chance. And its too early to place all that blame on him. Next year it begins to be a different story. I'm not saying he should get forever to turn it around.
Ray chose to save a scholarship for next year. That's straight out of his mouth. Then he chose to kick off 2 more players that most likely he didn't like within the first week or two of meeting them. He could have kicked them off then and had time to replace them for this year. He chose not to and let them kick themselves off later when he had no time to replace them. That's 3 roster spots Ray chose to not have for this season. That's 17ing terrible management right there. Stop excusing Ray for anything that happens this season. We all know we were going to suck bad but Ray gets to wear some of the blame the minute he starts cashing his million dollar salary checks.
So he should not have given all players a clean slate and opportunity to turn themselves and their collegiate careers around when he got there? No? So he should have come in with pre-conceived opinions of the players? And he should have wasted a scholarship on a player he did not believe would help the program in the long haul simply for the sake of having more warm bodies on the court in his first season, one he knows is likely going to be a long season regardless?
That is one hell of a reach. Actually its several ridiculous reaches all in one thought. That's not horrible management. If he thinks/thought he could bring a better player in this year than one he could have gotten at the very end of recruiting last season, then that is his call, and probably the right one. Keep in mind that many basketball players sign LOIs before Christmas of their senior season. It's not like the recruiting tree in the MSU backyard is raining quality ball players in April...
I become more and more amazed by the day that some of the posters on this board are not making millions of dollars coaching big time college and NBA basketball.
That is one hell of a reach. Actually its several ridiculous reaches all in one thought. That's not horrible management. If he thinks/thought he could bring a better player in this year than one he could have gotten at the very end of recruiting last season, then that is his call, and probably the right one. Keep in mind that many basketball players sign LOIs before Christmas of their senior season. It's not like the recruiting tree in the MSU backyard is raining quality ball players in April...
I become more and more amazed by the day that some of the posters on this board are not making millions of dollars coaching big time college and NBA basketball.
Wait, you hadn't heard? The Sanderson Center is so full of talented ball players in college basketball shape that the Hornets talent scouts never go anywhere but Starkville to look for draft picks. Of course, maybe that is why the Hornets are always so bad...
I could find you multiple Roquez Johnsons a hundred Baxter Prices and a few Trivante Bloodmans in the Sanderson, yes. Did you see Roquez's wide *** open air ball yesterday. Pathetic. If Bloodmans is on scholarship I say we use it elsewhere and offer him a walk on spot or a ticket out. He provides nothing; way worse than Tranny Beckham
This. If it was drugs AND they weren't listening in practice, lazy, etc for example then get rid of them. I have a feeling though that when it was time to lace em up an hit the hardwood that Zeikdes and Smith were not the second coming of Big Sidney. A 13-15 win season is more appealing to recruits than our current dumpster fire 6 win one will be.
With just 3 and a half hours to go in 2012, you made the post of the year.
Congratulations. You've hit the nail on the head.
Why are you saying it was one failed test? Nothing official has been said, and the unreliable "word on the street" says multiple failed tests. Do you have any evidence that it was actually just one failed test?
It wasnt just one failed test- they were warned if they failed another they were gone. They made that choice- not Ray
No I have no evidence just that logic says they failed tests before Ray showed up, got warned and then failed another test. Meaning one test failed after Ray took over. Weed doesn't leave the system naturally for a month if I'm not mistaken. They weren't on the team but a few months under Ray rule. Wouldn't make much sense to give multiple tests in a short amount of time if one had been failed. All further tests would also be failed until the drug had time to be flushed out. Ray would have known about previous failed tests and it might just be an MSU rule to kick off players after a certain point so they actually were not starting with a fresh slate. Maybe they were confused and thought they got a fresh start? What should have been considered is the very real possibility they would be kicked off when Ray first took over. Hindsight is 20/20 but he should have kicked them off right away and replaced them in the spring or they should have indeed been given a true fresh slate and not been kicked off at all. Just my opinion. You gotta bring the soldiers to the battlefield.