The next two years don’t matter to me because we’re still building the program, as there still is a talent deficit relative to competitors. The ‘24 schedule is particularly daunting, so it will be difficult to demonstrate success. In ‘25, the schedule will be more accommodating, and it should be a Winning season.
The Next Two Years are Free
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The next two years don’t matter to me because we’re still building the program, as there still is a talent deficit relative to competitors. The ‘24 schedule is particularly daunting, so it will be difficult to demonstrate success. In ‘25, the schedule will be more accommodating, and it should be a Winning season.
Yes - but I hope your not suggesting that after 3 years the 2 coaches were in similar spots. Ash was a laughing stock out of the conference. He was coming off blow out losses to Buffalo and a terrible Kansas team from year 3. He lost to Eastern Michigan in year 2. For a BIG school that is embarrassing and OOC performance was receiving national attention. Please don’t twist my words here - I’m not trying to prop up what Schiano 2.0 has done but point out the situation isn’t close and it took horrifically poor performance to get Ash out during his 4th year. Schiano is undefeated out of the conference including wins over BC and Syracuse. No matter how much some of you hate Schiano they are not in the same spot right now. If Temple blows us out this year - let’s talk then. Okay?
You either have the talent or you don’t have the talent. Mora had the talent to beat Fresno State and BC.
We may not have enough talent to beat 50% of the teams on our schedule. Schiano went on the Tiki and Tierney show and admitted he doesn’t have enough talent right now, but that he’s recruiting it.
We are depending on a div 2 transfer (Jackson) and a Maine transfer (Bowman) to carry much of our offense. We all hope it works out.
We have to be perfect in our competitive games just to be .500. That’s a hard position to be in.
Hindsight isn't 20/20.
Nothing in your post mentions ability to coach the team, implement an offense that could have lower ranked players be competitive against elite talent.
Attributes some people were looking for with the next HC. Especially after the dumpster fire of offense the prior HC and OCs predictably were.
Alternatively, we just wasted 3 years twiddling thumbs.
Ironically, which could have been accomplished by any HC. There has been nothing unique that "ONLY Schiano" has accomplished.
Would the next two seasons still not matter to you if we go winless? I understand your point -- that you think we ought to be patient -- but (as is often the case) you carry your point too far.
Is there really "an offense that could have lower ranked players be competitive against elite talent?" Let me quote the cliche: "it isn't the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmies and the Joes."
We will never have an easier OOC schedule then this year, we have three very winnable games. This is year 4 of a rebuild in the transfer portal era, it is not unreasonable, and if fact, it would expected at any other P5 program after 3 years of building a program that the coach would be able to deliver three conference wins in his 4th year. That is all he needs to do, win the three very winnable OOC games and go 3-6 in the conference in year 4. We all know he has a long-term contract, but to be honest, if he can't produce at least 6 wins this year he should be fired.
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The first sentence is all I need to hear to disagree. I am not willing to give up 2 (more) years of my life waiting for this team to turn a corner and maybe win 8 games. To give this much leeway is ridiculous. If this man is such a great rercruiter, whi is it taking him 6 years to build Rutgers into a semi-competitive team? If he's got this secret sauce, why cant' he recruit any of the top 10 NJ kids to their state school? If he's the only one capable of a turnaround, why is a class filled with 3-stars considered a monster? Face it, he's a middling coach and he always has been.
Are you really justifying saying Greg was a program builder and attaching the above records? You make my case for me. You say this was not an elite time for Miami leading up to the 2001 National Championship. Look at their records. Outside of the 5-6 pell grant blip the records are consistent and showing improvement until 2000. I give credit to Schiano for what he did in 1999-2000 but he did not "build" anything like you say. That is a slap in the face to Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnon, Dennis Erickson and Butch Davis.
But I said they were the Alabama, Clemson of the decade 80's-90's. The University of Miami's won four national championships (in 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991,) leading up to the records you posted above. They were already elite.
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He’s not beating last year’s 2 loss teams. That’s 3 automatic losses to start. Winning @ Iowa (8-5) or @ Wisconsin (7-6) is very unlikely too. That puts us in an 0-5 hole off the bat and these are all games where teams like Kansas (Leipold) would be major under dogs too by the way. So to make a bowl game, we’d have to go 4-1 in all the other real games. That’s not so easy to do.
To summarize...
People who think the next 2 years can suck and it's ok: Al
People who don't think the next 2 years can suck and it's ok: everyone else*
*If 2 more years suck, exactly how many great recruits are still going to want to play for Schiano at Rutgers?
People who think the next 2 years can suck and it's ok: Al
People who don't think the next 2 years can suck and it's ok: everyone else*
*If 2 more years suck, exactly how many great recruits are still going to want to play for Schiano at Rutgers?
I think I'm insulted - seriously do I look and/or sound like rutgersal?
Ash was a disaster, he stripped the team of talent almost as bad as under Terry Shea. At year 3 he had had a revolving door at OC, he consistently tried to have his own QB but kept falling back on what he inherited from Flood, he had no depth, he had alienated the fan base, season tickets sales were down to 16.5K in 2019. The team went 1-11 under him in the 3rd year with major WTF losses to Buffalo and Kansas. I don't know if we were close to beating anybody other than Texas State, our warmup scrimmage.
Last year we were 4-8 with a couple of close losses (14-13 Nebraska, 27-21 Mich. State). That is light years ahead of where we were at this point under Ash.
This is a legit question that I would love an answer to. I just can't wrap my head around how some people's minds are so clouded they can't acknowledge real data.
We have more talent than Uconn 's band aid team. We beat BC by 1. They beat them by 10. They also beat the #19 team in the country with a bunch of 2 stars. You have so many excuses that they dont even make sense now.
I think I'm insulted - seriously do I look and/or sound like rutgersal?
Ash was a disaster, he stripped the team of talent almost as bad as under Terry Shea. At year 3 he had had a revolving door at OC, he consistently tried to have his own QB but kept falling back on what he inherited from Flood, he had no depth, he had alienated the fan base, season tickets sales were down to 16.5K in 2019. The team went 1-11 under him in the 3rd year with major WTF losses to Buffalo and Kansas. I don't know if we were close to beating anybody other than Texas State, our warmup scrimmage.
Last year we were 4-8 with a couple of close losses (14-13 Nebraska, 27-21 Mich. State). That is light years ahead of where we were at this point under Ash.
Cool - as long as that much is clear. Because under Hobbs watch, Ash continued as coach at the start of year 4 following a one win season.
Schiano is entering year 4 now (one was a Covid year) and yet so many of our fans don’t think he’s going to get a full 5 years (next 2 seasons) to show real progress? He is and as frustrating as it is as fans to wait, he’s earned that latitude based on his history with Rutgers. As I said - it’s not “free years” it’s a holding pattern. We have to wait and see what happens.
We don’t play the same teams that UConn plays. We get beaten up, when we play a full slate of Big Ten teams, especially Nebraska, Michigan, Ohio State, etc. Injuries rob us of our effectiveness. We are improving our quality depth so that we can have a better chance of maintaining consistent performance.
I completely agree. As I indicated in my prior response, we were seeing incremental improvements last year which might have been greater if we didn't have key injuries (Noah Vedral, Gavin Wimsatt, Sam Brown). Hopefully we see continued improvement this year.
Greg did not build Miami’s program, but he helped take Miami’s defense to the next level, kind of like what Kirk Ciarocca is being asked to do. He improved Miami’s defense and He improved Ohio States defense, until his last year, as he was hit hard by graduation and the draft.
Beat Northwestern, Indiana, Maryland, Temple, Wagner, and Virginia Tech in year 4 of a transfer portal era rebuild. That is not asking too much of any competent P5 coach.
I'm sure political scientists have some answers since it's been seen before all over the world. It seems to be two-fold: we need to be saved from a mortal threat AND he's the only one who can do it. In the second case you have an inexplicable attachment to someone who hasn't proven they're The One yet people latch onto him, probably because he's a great Salesman for himself and a great talker. As a result, they'll overlook his flaws.
With Schiano, he hasn't really proven he can build a great program but lots of Rutgers fans have convinced themselves he did the first time around and so are attached excessively and overlook the obvious shortcomings. Maybe they have PTSD from the bad years.
And that cliche is wrong - and has been proven wrong for going on 4 years now.
What is the plan to improve the "Jimmies and Joes"?
"I know we've been bad for 3 years but trust me.........."
What's the recruiting pitch
That doesn't work after 2 years when the Xs and Os are still terrible and haven't produced results:
Recruiting rankings:
2020: #67 (carryover from Ash)
2021: #32
2022: #40
2023: #65
So our recruiting is getting worse, we aren't producing positive results (not even wins. we are getting blown out by peer schools)
Fix the Xs and Os first. Then as that shows results (proof of concept) - the Jimmies and Joes will follow.
"Look what we did with those crappy players. Think of what we could do with you. You would help us get over the hump."
The alternative is "well we need to wait another 2 years for these magicial elite recruits to pick Rutgers. I don't have a reason why they will but just wait. Only another 2 years and they'll show up".
Im comparing their performance to similar teams. I said nothing about Big 10 play. The voting committee had no problem ranking Liberty 19th at the time. Uconn had no business beating them in the state of their program. Injuries dont happen to just us. Rutgers is not the only team in the planet counter to your beliefs.
Wagner and (let’s hope) Temple should be penciled in. Those other 4 are hardly automatic. You think 4-0 should be a given? Why? Maryland won 8 games last year.
There is no reason to think that if we couldn't get the right talent when Schiano was new we will get them now, after 3 crummy years. Do people think recruits don't follow college football?
We didn’t just have injuries. We lost our quarterback two deep from off season training along with our star RB whom our offensive game plan was built around.
offense sucks with or without Vedral. O line play and scheme was horrendous. I like Brown a lot but he wasnt going to will us to wins. At some point you have to pass the ball to win Big Ten games.
If in year 4 of a rebuild we are still looking up at a Maryland program then that tells you all you need to know about GS 2.0. That's awful, just awful.
actually G2's second year gave hope, his 3rd regressed but recruits do follow football and Schiano still has a reputation of being a program builder
Only Greg has the secret sauce??? No one else could recruit at Rutgers like Greg? You see what prime is doing in Colorado???
Ok, honest question. For your wank material are you using pics of Greg circa 2006 or silver fox greg of today?
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He's imagining the mediocre teams from 2007 to 2011 that couldn't win the Big East and got trashed by Cincinnati regularly and Fresno State were actually playing in the Orange Bowl or the Sun Bowl--or even the Meineke Bowl.
Wait a minute -- BC was our first game and we were lucky to win by one. We weren't beaten up by Big Ten teams then, right? UConn was in mid-season and beat BC by 10. UConn was more beat up when they beat BC by ten than when we beat BC by one.
We're the only team that "gets beaten up." Everyone else has it easy and plays flag football.
Not to pile on here, but if we're getting "beaten up," what does that say about our strength & conditioning program? And what does it say about the guy who hires the people who run that program?
It says we need more money and a fieldhouse! Our talent, according to some of our "super fans" is really bad. It's harder to win at Rutgers than anywhere!
We’re not looking up. We’re looking lateral and if you are suggesting we should be worlds ahead of them or VTech or Michigan State that’s silly. Gong 50% against those teams won’t do it. We need to be 80% against them to make a bowl game.
BC lost some major linemen to injury in our game. It’s not apples to apples. There’s no way to compare. Just as we don’t know if we would’ve beaten Michigan State with Sam Brown.
Fine, but still the argument that we beat BC only by one because we had been beaten up by our Big Ten opponents (none of whom we had played) doesn't hold water.
That was posted in response to the guy who said there’s no excuse and Schiano should easily be able to get to 6 wins. Pointing to that one - I’m saying that its a winnable game and I’m actually throwing the guy a bone and classifying it as a lateral 50/50 game. VTech too. But we can’t go 50/50 in these types of games and make a bowl is the point. We can only afford to lose one of them. 1 out of 5. We need to win 80% of these types of games to get to 6 wins.
That wasn’t the argument. We beat BC in a close game. They became a worse team after that game. Just as we were a worse team after Sutton went down (Michigan game prior season). It’s impossible to say how much. Certainly we were a worse team by the time we played Minnesota as we no longer had Sam Brown.