Think about how bad our defense would have been without Banks and Slay..

[fishwater99]

I guess we will find out in 2013.

I still don't understand what the Hell Wilson was doing rushing 3 D-lineman all season long and playing so much zone..

 

[hotdigitydog]

That's depressing.....Jut think how bad the "D" could be next year.....We don't

have any pass rushers.....

 

[Railin Jemmye]

I understand the theory......

he was trying to get more speed on the field. But it just didn't work, our DL wasn't good enough and we weren't fast enough to cover anybody. Bad combination. Then on top of that, we missed tackles like crazy and our safeties often made mental errors. Basically we may have been doing the best we could do, though. I don't think many realize that in the past, we've typically put our best talent on defense. With Mullen, that shift is to offense.

At any rate, the answer is to beef up on the DL, which is exactly what Mullen has done. Nasty DLs stop any offense.

To answer your question, we probably lose the Tennessee game without Banks. The rest were blowouts except Troy, and I'm still not sure what happened there.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Autry, James, Evans, Jones, Virges....all a year older and wiser......

Yes we lose Banks but guess what, we did have him this year and the games he played in count. Next year we lose him but everyone else is a year older and better. All players have gotten better under Mullen.

 

[Coach 57]

You people have absolutely no concept of football do you? You do realize that you (as a coach) base what you do scheme wise on the strengths of your personnel. And understanding that concept our strength was what this yr on defense? How about length and atheletic ability on the back end of our defense. And understanding THAT you would do what? Probably allow their length and atheletic ability to transfer into TOs. I will tell you this, Banks is NOT 100% and is still nursing his injury but a 75% Banks is better than "the field" on our roster besides Slay.

Now that those are no longer strengths (as they will graduate) expect a new philosophy next yr. Much like our offense this yr. Most of our fanbase is under the ruse of how "good" we were this yr on offense. When in fact the numbers make that untrue. I expect us next yr to be BETTER (yes I said it and make sure you archive it) next yr as our scheme will change. Sometimes in life when you know you "have" something you lean on it a little too much. Like RG3, Vick they know they can out run almost anybody on the field and so they lean on that too much and it will eventually will shorten their NFL career. We have leaned on Banks & Slay too much this yr. We won't have that luxury next yr and it MIGHT just make our staff be more creative and you will probably be surprised by the results. But I won't.

 

[tenureplan]

You people have absolutely no concept of football do you? You do realize that you (as a coach) base what you do scheme wise on the strengths of your personnel. And understanding that concept our strength was what this yr on defense? How about length and atheletic ability on the back end of our defense. And understanding THAT you would do what? Probably allow their length and atheletic ability to transfer into TOs. I will tell you this, Banks is NOT 100% and is still nursing his injury but a 75% Banks is better than "the field" on our roster besides Slay.

Now that those are no longer strengths (as they will graduate) expect a new philosophy next yr. Much like our offense this yr. Most of our fanbase is under the ruse of how "good" we were this yr on offense. When in fact the numbers make that untrue. I expect us next yr to be BETTER (yes I said it and make sure you archive it) next yr as our scheme will change. Sometimes in life when you know you "have" something you lean on it a little too much. Like RG3, Vick they know they can out run almost anybody on the field and so they lean on that too much and it will eventually will shorten their NFL career. We have leaned on Banks & Slay too much this yr. We won't have that luxury next yr and it MIGHT just make our staff be more creative and you will probably be surprised by the results. But I won't.

Disagree somewhat...We rarely put the two of them on islands man-to-man which would have allowed us to bring additional preasure or do different things inside. I can understand not doing that after Banks got hurt, but we didn't do it prior to either. So I can't agree that we leaned on them, in fact I think for whatever reason, we played away from our strength there.

 

[coach66]

I agree with you, the only scheme I saw consistently was to play soft and bend

but not break but we broke, a lot. I do agree with 57 that there is no reason we can't be better next year but
to do so we are going to have to take chances on defense and mix things up, get aggressive on defense. We were so predictable and soft it really wouldn't have mattered much who was on the field but this can be changed.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Disagree somewhat...We rarely put the two of them on islands man-to-man which would have allowed us to bring additional preasure or do different things inside. I can understand not doing that after Banks got hurt, but we didn't do it prior to either. So I can't agree that we leaned on them, in fact I think for whatever reason, we played away from our strength there.

Agree. I typically agree with 57, and I do about our scheme probably being better next year...it damn well better be. My biggest problem with Wilson is that when something wasn't working, he was rarely if ever able to make an adjustment in game. There is no reason in my mind for us not to put Banks and Slay on an island and bring heat from time to time, but we didn't. You have to adjust, and Wilson can't seem to. And once again, even if he comes out with a great gameplan on Jan 1st, it doesn't mean much to me because you don't get 30 days to prepare for every game. Wilson's numbers have dropped every season, and with this year's schedule that is even more concerning.

 

[CadaverDawg]

but not break but we broke, a lot. I do agree with 57 that there is no reason we can't be better next year but
to do so we are going to have to take chances on defense and mix things up, get aggressive on defense. We were so predictable and soft it really wouldn't have mattered much who was on the field but this can be changed.

The fact that the word "soft" is continually thrown out there to describe our defense, is all I need to see to think we need a DC change. I know it's not going to happen this year, but if we come out pillow fighting next year again, it's time for Wilson to pack his ****. In fact, if Northwestern punches us in the mouth, I think Wilson should be fired. I'm sick of seeing such a talented group on defense be a bunch of softies that can't tackle and just act like a punching bag until the other team gets into the red zone.

 

[engie]

Wilson's numbers have dropped every season, and with this year's schedule that is even more concerning.

2 seasons do not establish a trend. Wilson's first year was better than Diaz's year in most statistical categories, and we had lost a ton on that defense.

The bowl game will tell us a whole heck of a lot about Wilson as a coach... this amount of time is enough to "fix" a scheme to shutdown a run-first spread attack like the one Northwestern is going to throw at us.

 

[CadaverDawg]

2 seasons do not establish a trend. Wilson's first year was better than Diaz's year in most statistical categories, and we had lost a ton on that defense.

The bowl game will tell us a whole heck of a lot about Wilson as a coach... this amount of time is enough to "fix" a scheme to shutdown a run-first spread attack like the one Northwestern is going to throw at us.

I agree with what you're saying, but will it make you feel all warm and fuzzy about us being able to stop teams NOT named Northwestern? Since those are the ones we will have to stop next year. Okie St, A&M, Ole Miss, as spread teams...along with South Carolina, Bama, LSU, etc.....He will not have 30 days to prepare for a different style of team between games next year. Trust me, I hope you're right, because I want Wilson to get his act together because he seems to be a good recruiter...but I just don't see how doing well against NW makes us feel better about next year, since we were unable to make any adjustments week to week, half to half, or series to series. Maybe I'm being too critical too early though.

 

[maroonmania]

And a WTH moment for me all season...

Agree. I typically agree with 57, and I do about our scheme probably being better next year...it damn well better be. My biggest problem with Wilson is that when something wasn't working, he was rarely if ever able to make an adjustment in game. There is no reason in my mind for us not to put Banks and Slay on an island and bring heat from time to time, but we didn't. You have to adjust, and Wilson can't seem to. And once again, even if he comes out with a great gameplan on Jan 1st, it doesn't mean much to me because you don't get 30 days to prepare for every game. Wilson's numbers have dropped every season, and with this year's schedule that is even more concerning.

is why does a good part of our "pressure package" involve corner blitzes? Why did we repeatedly take our best cover guy (Banks) OUT of coverage to put him in a blitz mode only to have our safeties get burned who aren't good enough to be in man to man coverage on WRs anyway? I still am dumbfounded that we gave up a TD to UMiss by blitzing Banks and trying to cover Moncrief with Whitley. I mean what sense does that make? Let the safeties or LBs blitz for pete's sake and leave our cover guys covering!

 

[fishwater99]

I did not see that...

You people have absolutely no concept of football do you? You do realize that you (as a coach) base what you do scheme wise on the strengths of your personnel. And understanding that concept our strength was what this yr on defense? How about length and atheletic ability on the back end of our defense. And understanding THAT you would do what? Probably allow their length and atheletic ability to transfer into TOs. I will tell you this, Banks is NOT 100% and is still nursing his injury but a 75% Banks is better than "the field" on our roster besides Slay.

Why do you not play man coverage with Slay and Banks? That would allow for extra pressure to be put in the QB by rushing 4 or 5.
Where was our safety blitzes? If you don't have NFL caliber players on the D-Line, you can not get pressure on the QB by rushing 3 D-Linemen.. I expect Northwestern to beat us by 10 points, and it will all be on Wilson.
Wilson is not a good coach. What in the Hell will we do different without our two best db's next year, except get lit up for more yards and long passes. We were out-coached in almost every game on defense, especially in the 2nd halfs..

I did not see a new philosophy on offense this year. We did not run a pro-set. Where was the Fullback and the I formation?

You are a coach Fail...There is only on Coach, that's Coach34...

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

It makes perfect sense, once you account for that some coaches 'parrot' what they've seen in the past, but don't really understand the reasons behind it. Wilson is clearly one of those coaches.

 

[jwhdawg]

Why do you not play man coverage with Slay and Banks? That would allow for extra pressure to be put in the QB by rushing 4 or 5.
Where was our safety blitzes? If you don't have NFL caliber players on the D-Line, you can not get pressure on the QB by rushing 3 D-Linemen.. I expect Northwestern to beat us by 10 points, and it will all be on Wilson.
Wilson is not a good coach. What in the Hell will we do different without our two best db's next year, except get lit up for more yards and long passes. We were out-coached in almost every game on defense, especially in the 2nd halfs..

I did not see a new philosophy on offense this year. We did not run a pro-set. Where was the Fullback and the I formation?

You are a coach Fail...There is only on Coach, that's Coach34...

Your right on to me.Wilson might be a good recruiter,but we need a coach that can coach to stop teams from scoring and he is not doing it,and won't. He won't change..The offense is same plays with no suprise plays at all.

 

[engie]

Your right on to me.Wilson might be a good recruiter,but we need a coach that can coach to stop teams from scoring and he is not doing it,and won't. He won't change..

Actually, he was 28th in the country in stopping teams from scoring this year - after being 16th last year. The best Ellis Johnson ever was? Try 35th.

How do you know "he won't change." What evidence do you have to go on?

 

[engie]

Why do you not play man coverage with Slay and Banks? That would allow for extra pressure to be put in the QB by rushing 4 or 5.

What happens when that little bit of additional pressure doesn't get there? You've got your corners on an island while giving qbs way too much time to throw - without additional linebackers and safeties to help - that's a recipe for disaster regardless of how good your corners are.

I agree in that I was unhappy with the scheme this year. Practically all of us feel that way. But it's unfair to FULLY JUDGE it based on the DL's inability to get pressure. How bad did Mullen's offense suck last year after the injuries on the OL? Well, this wasn't much difference on the DL(which I admit is also Wilson's responsibility).

Let's give him the bowl game and see what happens. What I expect is a marked improvement from all his personnel groupings, now that he's had time to modify the scheme somewhat. IF we don't get it, then we can all be pissed about it.

My thoughts are already on the record:

My hypothesis is that Wilson greatly overestimated how good we were going to be on defense(as did many of us). As such, he thought he could line up and beat people the way that Alabama and LSU do, largely by reading the offense and reacting. In that mistake lies the explanation for the vanilla scheme and playcalling. One thing that is for CERTAIN, he definitely overestimated his DL... or the scheme would have brought a bunch more pressure from the linebackers, or at least crowded the line of scrimmage and shut down the run. I fault him somewhat for not making adjustments early in the season after we were exposed by Troy, but it is very difficult to make those wholesale changes during a season. Like I said, I'm judging him closely on this bowl game...

 

[jwhdawg]

Actually, he was 28th in the country in stopping teams from scoring this year - after being 16th last year. The best Ellis Johnson ever was? Try 35th.

How do you know "he won't change." What evidence do you have to go on?

Will,i'm no guru, and far from it, but after watching 12 games of the same thing and almost cost us a few. Seems to me something would change,, by then..

 

[AzzurriDawg4]

I think we can go ahead and be pissed, I don't care to wait until the bowl game. And I do think it is a trend. We had 7 games to start the year to tweak that defense, plus a bye week. If Troy didn't set off the fire alarms, that is even more troubling. Playing vanilla my arse.

Yes, it is all about limiting points, which Wilson/Diaz have done to some extent here, but it is also about getting off the field quickly, it is about field position (which is sacrificed GREATLY in this scheme), it is about momentum - and our defense provides none of that unless a player steps up and overcomes the scheme to make a turnover or big play.

We dont coach our lineman to get upfield. We have tenured safeties that take horrible pursuit angles (including Mitchell last year).

The fact that Wilson is commanding the most poorly coached group on the field (with Safeties being a close 2nd) makes the situation worse.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Actually, he was 28th in the country in stopping teams from scoring this year - after being 16th last year. The best Ellis Johnson ever was? Try 35th.

How do you know "he won't change." What evidence do you have to go on?

Come on now Engie....I think you're a great poster, but you can't make this comment without mentioning Croom's shitastic and outmanned offenses keeping Ellis' D on the field all game. Ellis' Defense consistently kept us in games while staying on the field for damn near 3 out of 4 quarters.

 

[engie]

Come on now Engie....I think you're a great poster, but you can't make this comment without mentioning Croom's shitastic and outmanned offenses keeping Ellis' D on the field all game. Ellis' Defense consistently kept us in games while staying on the field for damn near 3 out of 4 quarters.

I'm aware. Just sick of people making this defense out to be way, WAY worse than we actually were in my opinion. They were a letdown relative to expectations, yes. Bigtime. Disastrously bad they were not. To me, this has a Butch Thompson situation written all over it with the overreaction. I could be wrong... We will see.

Gathering data now to go fully in-depth with our defensive performance this year in a manner that we can put it to rest one way or another, and I'm genuinely curious to see what I come up with.

Going to take awhile because it's fairly complex to analyze defensive performance vs average offensive production of opponents for almost a decade worth of teams...Still haven't quite figured out how I'm going to account for SOS in that...

 

[Todd4State]

This is very different than Butch's situation

I'm aware. Just sick of people making this defense out to be way, WAY worse than we actually were in my opinion. They were a letdown relative to expectations, yes. Bigtime. Disastrously bad they were not. To me, this has a Butch Thompson situation written all over it with the overreaction. I could be wrong... We will see.

Gathering data now to go fully in-depth with our defensive performance this year in a manner that we can put it to rest one way or another, and I'm genuinely curious to see what I come up with.

Going to take awhile because it's fairly complex to analyze defensive performance vs average offensive production of opponents for almost a decade worth of teams...Still haven't quite figured out how I'm going to account for SOS in that...

We didn't have a defense full of either injured players or freshmen. That's what Butch had. Plus, at least Butch at least tried different people throughout the year. He didn't just start the same guys that were getting shelled every week.

Chris has a defense with no less than five guys that are going to play in the NFL, including a first round DB, and some of the guys that probably aren't going to play in the NFL were veterans like Cam Lawrence.

I have to wonder if the points allowed stat is misleading. We either held people down or we gave up a ton of points. And the teams that we held down to 20 or less points were people like Jackson State, South Alabama, MTSU, Auburn, Kentucky, and Arkansas. So, either Sun Belt teams or teams looking for a new coach right now. The other reason I say it's misleading is because we're pretty bad in a lot of other categories- 55th in the country and 8th in the SEC in total defense, near the bottom in sacks, and our yards allowed rushing was pretty bad if I remember correctly. Lot of red flags.

 

[engie]

We didn't have a defense full of either injured players or freshmen. That's what Butch had. Plus, at least Butch at least tried different people throughout the year. He didn't just start the same guys that were getting shelled every week.

Chris has a defense with no less than five guys that are going to play in the NFL, including a first round DB, and some of the guys that probably aren't going to play in the NFL were veterans like Cam Lawrence.

I have to wonder if the points allowed stat is misleading. We either held people down or we gave up a ton of points. And the teams that we held down to 20 or less points were people like Jackson State, South Alabama, MTSU, Auburn, Kentucky, and Arkansas. So, either Sun Belt teams or teams looking for a new coach right now. The other reason I say it's misleading is because we're pretty bad in a lot of other categories- 55th in the country and 8th in the SEC in total defense, near the bottom in sacks, and our yards allowed rushing was pretty bad if I remember correctly. Lot of red flags.

You are trying to make my Thompson comparison far, far too literal... I drew it as a parallel in terms of potential overreaction. It was not a literal point by point comparison, and I thought I made that pretty clear. MOST here wanted Butch's head on a platter for 2.5 years, if not 3 full years. The vitriol toward him was nonstop and brutal - and if I recall correctly, you were also in that group for awhile. Had people gotten their way with that when they wanted it, it would have proven to be a MONUMENTALLY bad mistake, yes? Sure, it's easy to justify the shortcomings in years 1, 2, and most of 3 in hindsight...but the foresight of at least 90% of State fans was lacking in a huge way on that one. I think it is VERY possible that this is a similar knee jerk reaction. I just don't really understand the rush to judgement on this one.

Say the defensive scoring numbers were misleading for how bad we were - maybe they were - but I've yet to see ONE SINGLE person go in-depth enough with the stats to conclusively prove it. I have, however, seen a bunch of people cherrypick data that supported their viewpoint...

People are starting to project me as pro-Wilson simply because I haven't yet joined the groupthink on this one, and nothing could be more wrong. I just refuse to rush my judgement on it. How quickly we turn on the guy that gave us our best scoring defense in 12 years in 2011 - one whole year ago.

 

[Todd4State]

You might want to ask downtowndawg about my stance on Butch

You are trying to make my Thompson comparison far, far too literal... I drew it as a parallel in terms of potential overreaction. It was not a literal point by point comparison, and I thought I made that pretty clear. MOST here wanted Butch's head on a platter for 2.5 years, if not 3 full years. The vitriol toward him was nonstop and brutal - and if I recall correctly, you were also in that group for awhile. Had people gotten their way with that when they wanted it, it would have proven to be a MONUMENTALLY bad mistake, yes? Sure, it's easy to justify the shortcomings in years 1, 2, and most of 3 in hindsight...but the foresight of at least 90% of State fans was lacking in a huge way on that one. I think it is VERY possible that this is a similar knee jerk reaction. I just don't really understand the rush to judgement on this one.

Say the defensive scoring numbers were misleading for how bad we were - maybe they were - but I've yet to see ONE SINGLE person go in-depth enough with the stats to conclusively prove it. I have, however, seen a bunch of people cherrypick data that supported their viewpoint...

People are starting to project me as pro-Wilson simply because I haven't yet joined the groupthink on this one, and nothing could be more wrong. I just refuse to rush my judgement on it. How quickly we turn on the guy that gave us our best scoring defense in 12 years in 2011 - one whole year ago.

I was one of the few that was against firing him after Cohen's second year. I said that we needed to only make a change if we didn't make progress- which we did, so now there's no need to make a change. You may be able to look back in the archives and maybe find a time that I was pissed and said that we needed to get rid of him, but I can guarantee you that over 95% of the time I was for keeping him.

I don't think I'm taking it too literal- I think you made a bad comparison. And I think it's a bad comparison because Wilson has had first round draftable talent and we've seen no action by Chris to try to fix any of it throughout the year- or heck even in a game. And I think that's alarming. We're not rebuilding our football team like we were our baseball team.

I also don't think there is anything knee jerk about replacing him. He has been here two years and his defense has gotten worse. He apparently needs first round talent to make his defense average- and that is scary if you are Mississippi State.

The other thing about data- which is certainly useful, no question about it- there are certain things that I think go beyond that. Things that data doesn't tell you. Like starting Cherry at DT. Like lack of making adjustments. The fact that we constantly had people out of position. The fact that our defense lacked intensity and effort throughout the year.

We may have had "good" stats- I don't really know how in depth you want to go with it- but that doesn't mean that we were playing up to our potential and that doesn't mean that we were as good as we could have and should have been. And I think we just rely on stats and say, "well our stats were good" that's kind of dangerous on our part as a program.

Personally, based on what I saw on the field every Saturday- we were underachieving. Badly. And that's not groupthink on my part- that's my opinion. Others just happen to agree with it.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Actually, he was 28th in the country in stopping teams from scoring this year - after being 16th last year. The best Ellis Johnson ever was? Try 35th.

How do you know "he won't change." What evidence do you have to go on?

You keep saying this and it means almost nothing. We played a SUPER soft schedule which inflates our defensive ranking. Our defense was blown off the field every other time we suited up in conference. In conference, we got to play 3 teams (AUB, UK & ARK) that all fell somewhere between disorganized cluster17 or completely quit on their coach. In our other five conference games, Chris Wilson got his 17ing pants pulled down. We weren't the 28th best defense in the country. We might have scheduled our way to finish there in scoring defense, but if you watch any of our four UGLY losses (average margin of defeat 23 points) it's clear that being 28th in scoring defense doesn't mean a whole helluva lot.

A&M & Bama could have named the score. Ole Miss scored on four of it's first five possessions in the second half of the Egg Bowl (the other was a missed field goal).

Our defense sucked. You can quote that scoring defense ranking til you're blue in the face but anyone who watched all the games knows.

And having watched both of their defenses at State, I would trade Wilson for Ellis Johnson every day of the 17ing week.

Wilson and our defense are 17ing soft.

/rant

 

[Todd4State]

Well, if you ask some of the gurus on here

What happens when that little bit of additional pressure doesn't get there? You've got your corners on an island while giving qbs way too much time to throw - without additional linebackers and safeties to help - that's a recipe for disaster regardless of how good your corners are.

I agree in that I was unhappy with the scheme this year. Practically all of us feel that way. But it's unfair to FULLY JUDGE it based on the DL's inability to get pressure. How bad did Mullen's offense suck last year after the injuries on the OL? Well, this wasn't much difference on the DL(which I admit is also Wilson's responsibility).

Let's give him the bowl game and see what happens. What I expect is a marked improvement from all his personnel groupings, now that he's had time to modify the scheme somewhat. IF we don't get it, then we can all be pissed about it.

My thoughts are already on the record:

The offense was apparently bad enough to get rid of Les. I'm not arguing that it's not. I looked at our total offense stat for the past two years and it was about the same. I think the Dan can't play call with a drop back passer is bunk at least to a degree. Our offensive play calling during Relf's last year was equally as bad- just with more zone read.

I'll be honest- I'll be more shocked if Chris makes changes to our defense than I would be if I woke up in bed with Brooklyn Decker on New Year's Day. At this point, I'm just hoping we win a shoot out. In fact, I don't think Chris could game plan for those ******** if he had Northwestern's playbook and wire tapped their coaches meetings.

 

[engie]

You keep saying this and it means almost nothing. We played a SUPER soft schedule which inflates our defensive ranking. Our defense was blown off the field every other time we suited up in conference. In conference, we got to play 3 teams (AUB, UK & ARK) that all fell somewhere between disorganized cluster17 or completely quit on their coach. In our other five conference games, Chris Wilson got his 17ing pants pulled down. We weren't the 28th best defense in the country. We might have scheduled our way to finish there in scoring defense, but if you watch any of our four UGLY losses (average margin of defeat 23 points) it's clear that being 28th in scoring defense doesn't mean a whole helluva lot.

A&M & Bama could have named the score. Ole Miss scored on four of it's first five possessions in the second half of the Egg Bowl (the other was a missed field goal).

Our defense sucked. You can quote that scoring defense ranking til you're blue in the face but anyone who watched all the games knows.

And having watched both of their defenses at State, I would trade Wilson for Ellis Johnson every day of the 17ing week.

Wilson and our defense are 17ing soft.

/rant

If you don't have enough perspective to take a step back and look at the big picture logically, I can't give it to you.

Last season, we played a TOUGH schedule - and Chris Wilson gave up what, exactly? Oh that's right, his defenses went toe to toe with Alabama, LSU, South Carolina - shutting down all 3 defensively, while our cluster17 offense absolutely killed us until the D wore down late in the 4th. Were you bitching about our scheme when we held Richardson to about 50 yards rushing on 20 carries through 3 quarters? When we basically shut down Lattimore? But all that gets lost in the shuffle over ONE down season defensively - one that we still didn't even manage to fully crash and burn in. But hey, it's fully excusable for our offense to get shut down by elite defenses -- Just not ok for our defense to EVER get torched by elite offenses...

Everyone cries when our hostshot DC leaves us for greener pastures and the recruiting class goes to hell(yes, that recruiting class skull drug us from the opposite sidelines in the Egg Bowl)... but then you get a DC that, in two seasons, has delivered practically every single recruit he's gone after - remained loyal to US when his buddy at Texas 17'ing A&M came calling - and also gave us the best defense in 12 years after losing 3 starters to the NFL(5 total starters) - yet everyone on here are ready to kick him to the curve based on a SINGLE season where he underperformed relative to expectations after losing 2 to the NFL(1 in the first round) and 5 more total starters.

But hey, let's fire the DC who has given us the #16 and #27 scoring defenses... But of course, the offense is fine - nothing to see there...even though it has ranked #72, #48, #72, #55 in these 4 seasons.

Surely, Virginia Tech should fire Bud Foster this year - After all, his defense was much worse than ours, and he plays in a joke ACC!**

 

[engie]

I don't think I'm taking it too literal- I think you made a bad comparison. And I think it's a bad comparison because Wilson has had first round draftable talent and we've seen no action by Chris to try to fix any of it throughout the year- or heck even in a game. And I think that's alarming. We're not rebuilding our football team like we were our baseball team.

Here is my quote, exactly.

To me, this has a Butch Thompson situation written all over it with the overreaction. I could be wrong... We will see.

You make a comparison to how Butch's SITUATION was different at the time. Where did I mention situations? That's right, I didn't. I STRICTLY mentioned fan reaction. You took it too literally the first time, and now you defend that AFTER I spelled out for you exactly what I meant by it, then called the comparison bad? The comparison was fair. It was the comprehension that was lacking.

There are plenty that's alarming about how our defense played this year, how we schemed this year, our personnel decisions, our attitude, etc... Not denying that at all. Just haven't seen what I am confident was a massive enough failure to cost a loyal DC who has been excellent in many aspects his job.

In Joe Lee's first year at State(1996), an 11-game full season, we gave up 1 more point than we gave up this season through our first 11 - including 38 to La Tech(loss), 38 to Georgia, and 49 to Auburn...in a much less prolific offensive time in CFB/the SEC. What if we had fired him at that time and never given him a chance? Our entire expectation structure on the defensive side of the ball would be different. How can anyone logically guarantee me based on what we know RIGHT NOW that firing Wilson wouldn't be every bit as big of mistake? Comes right back to what I've already said about foresight and hindsight.

I trust Dan Mullen to have the foresight to do what is best for our program - He's shown us the 2nd best 3 year stretch in Mississippi in 40 years in terms of wins and losses, and he's shown that he's willing to trim the fat and go out and get the best and brightest. Yet a huge majority of our fanbase do not trust him to make tough personnel decisions to keep moving forward. That is concerning as hell to me at this point.

 

[thf24]

I did not see a new philosophy on offense this year. We did not run a pro-set. Where was the Fullback and the I formation?

If we had made a complete switch and tried to run a pure pro-style offense this year, we would have begged for the numbers we put up with the makeshift Russell spread. We simply don't have the personnel for it. Auburn this year is what happens when you try to run it without the complete personnel it needs. Granted they lack the most important piece (QB) and we don't, but our results wouldn't have been a whole lot better.

 

[Palos verdes]

Our lack of a pass rush has baffled me all season!

I saw red flags with the d-line in the JSU game. We often struggled to get any push at the line and just didn't seem physical at all. My initial reaction was,..there is no way in hell this group is that bad! In hindsight, I suspect complacency creeped into the program, and maybe the staff laid down at some phase of the off-season regimen. Seems crazy, but the defensive line got pushed around in most of their games this season. Schematically, we have had problems on the defense as a group, but getting out-muscled up front, that doesn't make sense.

 

[CadaverDawg]

I was one of the few that was against firing him after Cohen's second year. I said that we needed to only make a change if we didn't make progress- which we did, so now there's no need to make a change. You may be able to look back in the archives and maybe find a time that I was pissed and said that we needed to get rid of him, but I can guarantee you that over 95% of the time I was for keeping him.

I don't think I'm taking it too literal- I think you made a bad comparison. And I think it's a bad comparison because Wilson has had first round draftable talent and we've seen no action by Chris to try to fix any of it throughout the year- or heck even in a game. And I think that's alarming. We're not rebuilding our football team like we were our baseball team.

I also don't think there is anything knee jerk about replacing him. He has been here two years and his defense has gotten worse. He apparently needs first round talent to make his defense average- and that is scary if you are Mississippi State.

The other thing about data- which is certainly useful, no question about it- there are certain things that I think go beyond that. Things that data doesn't tell you. Like starting Cherry at DT. Like lack of making adjustments. The fact that we constantly had people out of position. The fact that our defense lacked intensity and effort throughout the year.

We may have had "good" stats- I don't really know how in depth you want to go with it- but that doesn't mean that we were playing up to our potential and that doesn't mean that we were as good as we could have and should have been. And I think we just rely on stats and say, "well our stats were good" that's kind of dangerous on our part as a program.

Personally, based on what I saw on the field every Saturday- we were underachieving. Badly. And that's not groupthink on my part- that's my opinion. Others just happen to agree with it.

This^^

And Engie, nobody is giving the offense a free pass. Hell, I think they underachieved too, and primarily due to play calling. But, I think the defense was supposed to be a strength this year and it was our biggest weakness. Plus, if you don't have a stout defense in this league, it doesn't matter if you can score a lot of points. MSU has proven that we can win in this league if we have a good defense and a good running game. Unfortunately with Tyler, our running game is limited in Dan's system, so I think you're seeing more patience with that side because when you have the best passer in school history you're kinda handcuffed when it comes to a running system. But the defense had nothing but a ton of talent and experience returning, a soft schedule, and opportunity....but STILL seemed to be clueless at times this year.

I don't give a **** about stats. I didn't need to see that Troy had 600 yards of offense against us on papaer, I WATCHED the **** and it was pathetic. I didn't need to see what A&M's final offensive numbers were, because I saw that we didn't have a 17ing clue on defense! Not a damn clue! We went in to play the #1 team in the country with a 7-0 record and looked like we had not even watched film of them. And never made any adjustments. We had a chance against LSU, but went AWAY from what had been working all game, and into a prevent defense to give up a full length TD in 40 seconds.

That **** is unsettling and it doesn't show up on the stats page. What Wilson did this year was play a weak, Big12 defense against SEC talent....but didn't have a Big12 offense to go with it.

 

[Todd4State]

No, I understand what you are saying

Here is my quote, exactly.


You make a comparison to how Butch's SITUATION was different at the time. Where did I mention situations? That's right, I didn't. I STRICTLY mentioned fan reaction. You took it too literally the first time, and now you defend that AFTER I spelled out for you exactly what I meant by it, then called the comparison bad? The comparison was fair. It was the comprehension that was lacking.

There are plenty that's alarming about how our defense played this year, how we schemed this year, our personnel decisions, our attitude, etc... Not denying that at all. Just haven't seen what I am confident was a massive enough failure to cost a loyal DC who has been excellent in many aspects his job.

In Joe Lee's first year at State(1996), an 11-game full season, we gave up 1 more point than we gave up this season through our first 11 - including 38 to La Tech(loss), 38 to Georgia, and 49 to Auburn...in a much less prolific offensive time in CFB/the SEC. What if we had fired him at that time and never given him a chance? Our entire expectation structure on the defensive side of the ball would be different. How can anyone logically guarantee me based on what we know RIGHT NOW that firing Wilson wouldn't be every bit as big of mistake? Comes right back to what I've already said about foresight and hindsight.

I trust Dan Mullen to have the foresight to do what is best for our program - He's shown us the 2nd best 3 year stretch in Mississippi in 40 years in terms of wins and losses, and he's shown that he's willing to trim the fat and go out and get the best and brightest. Yet a huge majority of our fanbase do not trust him to make tough personnel decisions to keep moving forward. That is concerning as hell to me at this point.

You are saying we should keep Wilson because it might be a mistake to get rid of him because he might be better than we think and turn out to be a great DC. I'm using Butch's situation to show you why it's a bad comparison. I'm saying getting rid of him isn't a fan overreaction.

And I'll tell you why we wouldn't have fired Joe Lee after 1996- it was his first season at MSU. This is Wilson's second. And Joe Lee also improved the defense throughout that year- in fact we held Bama to 16 when we upset them, and we shut out Ole Miss on the road. And we also scored another shutout against Northeast Louisiana. In fact, all three of those games you mentioned were early in the season when we were adjusting to Joe Lee. Please don't accuse anyone of cherry-picking stats after you pulled that card out. We could see improvement and promise with Joe Lee in 1996- something we can't see right now. And I can guarantee you that you had no one MSU AOL or whatever we had at the time being pissed off because the team in 96 lacked effort, looked confused, or lacked making adjustments. Yet another bad comparison.

You can pull stats out all day long and tell me I'm wrong because the stats "say" I'm wrong- or maybe some of them don't, I don't know. But I'll say this- I've watched a LOT of football in my life, and I've watched a LOT of both good and bad teams not just at MSU, but other teams as well. And there are very common themes associated with the teams that win championships and the ones that don't. Good teams play with relentless effort, they are strong on the lines, they are physical, and they have good quarterback play. The parts that Chris is in charge of have shown NO signs of any of that. And because of that- logically- I think we make a change before we get three years of bad data in to tell us he can't do the job when I can already save us a year of ****** football and possibly missing a bowl and ruining our momentum when I can tell right now that he can't do the job.

Just remember- I was right about Butch, and I will be and am right about Chris.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

Really? Comparing this situation to Butch Thompson? Wow. You do realize when Butch came on board, we had a total of 1 guy who could throw a 90 mile an hour fastball. ONE. And even then, you had no clue where it was going. That is recipe for disaster in SEC baseball. 1 wild guy who could throw 90 and that was it for the staff. Witnessing what I witnessed all season, no adjustments made, no consistency at all, and simply not passing the eye test is enough for me. We can spit out stats, numbers, any measurable data we want but the bottom line in my mind is we simply don't look like a good defense. Whether it be from positioning, bad angles taken, missed tackles, whatever, it all goes back to coaching. It wasn't like we were tearing the charts up last year either. Besides, I'm sure Butch would love to have Wilson's salary for his inconsistencies. Or even half of it.

 

[engie]

You are saying we should keep Wilson because it might be a mistake to get rid of him because he might be better than we think and turn out to be a great DC. I'm using Butch's situation to show you why it's a bad comparison. I'm saying getting rid of him isn't a fan overreaction.

And I'll tell you why we wouldn't have fired Joe Lee after 1996- it was his first season at MSU. This is Wilson's second. And Joe Lee also improved the defense throughout that year- in fact we held Bama to 16 when we upset them, and we shut out Ole Miss on the road. And we also scored another shutout against Northeast Louisiana. In fact, all three of those games you mentioned were early in the season when we were adjusting to Joe Lee. Please don't accuse anyone of cherry-picking stats after you pulled that card out. We could see improvement and promise with Joe Lee in 1996- something we can't see right now. And I can guarantee you that you had no one MSU AOL or whatever we had at the time being pissed off because the team in 96 lacked effort, looked confused, or lacked making adjustments. Yet another bad comparison.

You can pull stats out all day long and tell me I'm wrong because the stats "say" I'm wrong- or maybe some of them don't, I don't know. But I'll say this- I've watched a LOT of football in my life, and I've watched a LOT of both good and bad teams not just at MSU, but other teams as well. And there are very common themes associated with the teams that win championships and the ones that don't. Good teams play with relentless effort, they are strong on the lines, they are physical, and they have good quarterback play. The parts that Chris is in charge of have shown NO signs of any of that. And because of that- logically- I think we make a change before we get three years of bad data in to tell us he can't do the job when I can already save us a year of ****** football and possibly missing a bowl and ruining our momentum when I can tell right now that he can't do the job.

Just remember- I was right about Butch, and I will be and am right about Chris.

You refuse to acknowledge anything about Wilson's first defense here - because that throws a monkey wrench in the agenda. "It was Joe Lee's first season at MSU. This is Wilson's second." Seriously? Ok, let's ignore Wilson's first then - when he shut down #1 Alabama, #2 LSU, #8 South Carolina... Gave up 315 TOTAL yards to SECeast champ Georgia on the road, etc. Hell, even the La Tech game - given what we NOW know about Dykes' offense - was a pretty damn good defensive effort.

Basically - you're now refusing to acknowledge that a HUGE portion of the fanbase was wrong about Thompson - and keep trying to make my argument something it was not - a discussion about the situational similarities. It was singularly about fanbase reaction. But you are wanting to turn it into a discussion that you can win - instead of what it was - the difference between foresight and hindsight.

I find this post incredibly ironic though:

I doubt it.

AceLeroy wrote:

---

I wonder if cohen will show the same loyalty to Thompson that Croom showed Woody , and if so , what will it eventually cost cohen?​

Cohen wants to win more than keep his "friends" around, and I'm not sure that Butch and Cohen are best friends, and on top of that I don't ever recall Cohen saying anything about not firing anyone ever.

So, you trusted Cohen to do what was ACTUALLY best for the program - yet you don't trust Mullen. Pretty telling actually.

 

[engie]

Really? Comparing this situation to Butch Thompson? Wow. You do realize when Butch came on board, we had a total of 1 guy who could throw a 90 mile an hour fastball. ONE. And even then, you had no clue where it was going. That is recipe for disaster in SEC baseball. 1 wild guy who could throw 90 and that was it for the staff. Witnessing what I witnessed all season, no adjustments made, no consistency at all, and simply not passing the eye test is enough for me. We can spit out stats, numbers, any measurable data we want but the bottom line in my mind is we simply don't look like a good defense. Whether it be from positioning, bad angles taken, missed tackles, whatever, it all goes back to coaching. It wasn't like we were tearing the charts up last year either. Besides, I'm sure Butch would love to have Wilson's salary for his inconsistencies. Or even half of it.

Once again, where is the reading comprehension? I've explained this 3 times - reread it until you understand it, because no part of this understood ANY part of my comparison.

Prevailing sentiments around these boards were that Thompson HAD to go, starting in early 2010 and lasting until about April 2011, when the pitching staff actually started performing well late in the SEC season. This came after his one year pass from the fanbase. Of course, the sentiment has changed - because people here have the gift of HINDSIGHT now - and that makes it easy to understand what the problems were at the time. What happens when the DL and thus the defense drastically improves next year? People will say "Oh, losing Cox killed us", justify the recruiting gap from him/boyd to quay/nick, losing 4 starting DL the past two years hurt, and jump right back on the Wilson bandwagon while pretending that they never left.

Here's what I mean(and to be fair - in looking back - Todd was mostly a voice of reason when everyone was clamoring for Thompson's head):
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/348645/More-baseball-wool-for-ya#reply-348645
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/46608/Pitching-coach-thoughts-at-2AM
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/336985/MSU-Baseball-2011-does-Cohen-coach-2012#reply-336985
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/335231/think-baseball-board-dont-quite#reply-335231
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/reply/...batters-and-gives-up-3-home-runs#reply-334570
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/46272/Butch-Thompson-Fire-or-Keep
Those were just the first ones I came to - there are literally hundreds.

 

[Todd4State]

My agenda is what is best for MSU

You refuse to acknowledge anything about Wilson's first defense here - because that throws a monkey wrench in the agenda. "It was Joe Lee's first season at MSU. This is Wilson's second." Seriously? Ok, let's ignore Wilson's first then - when he shut down #1 Alabama, #2 LSU, #8 South Carolina... Gave up 315 TOTAL yards to SECeast champ Georgia on the road, etc. Hell, even the La Tech game - given what we NOW know about Dykes' offense - was a pretty damn good defensive effort.

Basically - you're now refusing to acknowledge that a HUGE portion of the fanbase was wrong about Thompson - and keep trying to make my argument something it was not - a discussion about the situational similarities. It was singularly about fanbase reaction. But you are wanting to turn it into a discussion that you can win - instead of what it was - the difference between foresight and hindsight.

I find this post incredibly ironic though:


So, you trusted Cohen to do what was ACTUALLY best for the program - yet you don't trust Mullen. Pretty telling actually.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Not winning some gay Internet "argument". I know that's shocking.

And to tell you the truth, I didn't mention Chris's first season only because it hasn't been brought up by anyone until now. But I'll certainly address it- because we saw a LOT of the same things we are seeing now. Slay at nickleback. The game where we "shut down" South Carolina- we lost in part because we didn't put Banks on Jeffrey near the end zone. We gave up over 40 points to Auburn and Arkansas. Gave up 20 points to a La Tech team that we should have held down. You're definition of shutting someone down is different from mine- allowing 19-24 points is respectable, but not anything to brag about. It's just that now this season, those things have gotten worse. I've seen enough. I don't want to see a third season.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth with the Butch comparison. So, is it about fan reaction or about our fans being right? I'm not saying that a lot of our fans weren't wrong about Butch at all. Anywhere. Heck, I was the main one saying we should keep him, so I think it's crazy that you are even accusing me of saying I was one of the main ones saying he should be gone in the first place. I'm saying it's wrong to compare the two. The only reason you would ever bring up the two is to say "hey, maybe we should be patient with this Chris because we would have screwed up firing our pitching coach"- but I don't think that is the case, and I showed you why I thought that, and why it wasn't a fan overreaction and you simply disagree. Which is your perroggative, but I'll be honest, it's a stupid comparison. And heck, if your stupid comparison was about foresight vs hindsight- based on my opinion of Butch being right, maybe you oughta listen to me even if it throws a monkey wrench in your agenda. Here's a stat for you- Todd4State is 1 out of 1 on whether to keep a coach or not. And 2 for 2 is looking pretty promising right now.

And now for my grand finale- trusting Dan Mullen and you questioning my faith in him. I actually find it the opposite- I find it alarming that you seem to have blind faith in the guy to do everything right. This is the SAME guy that decided to run a jump pass instead of giving it to AD, the SAME guy that ran a failed fake punt against Florida, the SAME guy that almost hired Willie Martinez as our DC, the SAME guy that apparently can't run an offense that doesn't involve a running QB, the SAME guy that allows our DC to put Cherry out there 2 weeks in a row and didn't put his foot down, and the SAME guy that four years in has a bunch of little slot WR's and didn't seem to realize that maybe it would be a good idea to recruit some taller WR's at some point in time. This is the SAME guy that thought that all of our JUCO's should be Dec. graduates no matter what at one time. Now- don't get me wrong- I think Dan is a good coach. In fact, sadly, he is the BEST coach I have ever seen at MSU in my lifetime. I say sadly because he's an above average coach. I'm sure you will tell me all the great and wonderful things he has done. BUT he is not above reproach.

Cohen on the other hand has won a SEC title at Kentucky, he has won the SEC Tournament and taken us to a SR, he is recruiting well, and we are showing progress every year. Whether you like to admit it or not- since our first Gator Bowl with Dan we have regressed. And it started when we hired that assclown that's our 17ing DC that you're trying to defend. And not only that- I have criticized Cohen before plenty of times. Find the post after we lost to Jackson State as exhibit A. So, no Cohen is not above reproach with me either.

 

[engie]

I'm tired of arguing about this. Basically, what it boils down to - you trust Cohen, you don't trust Mullen. Even though in terms of MSU history, Mullen is outperforming his peers by a huge margin. You have to go back to Allyn McKeen to find a comparable. Cohen, on the other hand, has yet to do much to surpass any of the coaches we've had in the previous century in their first 4 years.

We can talk individual mistakes that Mullen has made - there has been a bunch of them - He gets a pass for those until he refuses to fix a recurring problem. We can also talk individual mistakes that Cohen has made - there has certainly been no shortage. I didn't like the Mingione promotion. I accept it because I'm positive Cohen knows better than me, although I reserve the right to ***** about it in the future.

I trust that Cohen has the program going in the right direction - I trust the same thing with Mullen. Cohen's is more tangible, because we EXPECT to be as good as we will be this year. We've proven that we can be that good and sustain it longterm. Football is an entirely different circumstance, with an entirely different set of expectations.

You were right on Butch - So was I.

One thing that was abundantly clear to me - even moreso than scheme - was that we were(at least the personnel we used) TREMENDOUSLY out-athleted most of the season on defense. A scheme can't overcome that, although a good, multiple scheme should have done a better job disguising it.

We thought Manny Diaz was the second coming - his defense at Texas chock full of 5* players and first/second round upperclassman talent - ranked in the 70s this year. He inherited a team with a crapload of defensive talent at MSU - something we didn't realize at the time. Is it not possible that Wilson had less talent this year than we've had the previous two?

We will see IF you are right on Wilson in due time - I've already said that I'm neither in the boat or out of the boat on him yet - I need more data, and I think I get it next year when we upgrade talent at every single spot that we lost guys. Outside of perhaps CB. But the more people that are absolutely sure he's going to fail, the more it makes me seem to support him, when I don't. I support Mullen to make the correct decision when that time comes, and I don't think that time is right now.

 

[lasher8]

Why is this a "gay" internet argument?

 

[Todd4State]

To be clear because now you are putting words in my mouth

I'm tired of arguing about this. Basically, what it boils down to - you trust Cohen, you don't trust Mullen. Even though in terms of MSU history, Mullen is outperforming his peers by a huge margin. You have to go back to Allyn McKeen to find a comparable. Cohen, on the other hand, has yet to do much to surpass any of the coaches we've had in the previous century in their first 4 years.

We can talk individual mistakes that Mullen has made - there has been a bunch of them - He gets a pass for those until he refuses to fix a recurring problem. We can also talk individual mistakes that Cohen has made - there has certainly been no shortage. I didn't like the Mingione promotion. I accept it because I'm positive Cohen knows better than me, although I reserve the right to ***** about it in the future.

I trust that Cohen has the program going in the right direction - I trust the same thing with Mullen. Cohen's is more tangible, because we EXPECT to be as good as we will be this year. We've proven that we can be that good and sustain it longterm. Football is an entirely different circumstance, with an entirely different set of expectations.

You were right on Butch - So was I.

One thing that was abundantly clear to me - even moreso than scheme - was that we were(at least the personnel we used) TREMENDOUSLY out-athleted most of the season on defense. A scheme can't overcome that, although a good, multiple scheme should have done a better job disguising it.

We thought Manny Diaz was the second coming - his defense at Texas chock full of 5* players and first/second round upperclassman talent - ranked in the 70s this year. He inherited a team with a crapload of defensive talent at MSU - something we didn't realize at the time. Is it not possible that Wilson had less talent this year than we've had the previous two?

We will see IF you are right on Wilson in due time - I've already said that I'm neither in the boat or out of the boat on him yet - I need more data, and I think I get it next year when we upgrade talent at every single spot that we lost guys. Outside of perhaps CB. But the more people that are absolutely sure he's going to fail, the more it makes me seem to support him, when I don't. I support Mullen to make the correct decision when that time comes, and I don't think that time is right now.

I do not "trust" a coach that puts a mediocre product on the field- which is exactly what Dan put out there this year. He's the one that hired Chris, and he is going to catch some flak for it as well as our administration to a degree for not having higher assistant coaches salaries. I "trust" a coach more that is performing at a high level. Sports is very much a what have you done for me lately business. Joe Lee Dunn has had a couple of defenses ranked number one in the country in the past. That doesn't mean he should be our DC now. Cohen caught a pretty good bit of flack after year two- and I think rightfully so. You have a losing season, it's going to fall back on that coach.

I think your issue is you're trying to make this into an either you have to be "all in" or "all out" on a coach when you use the word "trust". That doesn't have to be and shouldn't be the case. What it should be about is what is the coach in whatever sport doing to win and get us better, and if they're not- they need to know that they are being held to a higher standard. "Trusting" people like Jackie to turn it all around after 2002 based on past performance is what gets us in situations where we have massive rebuilding projects at MSU. Like I said- my agenda is what is best for MSU.

Now, that said- that doesn't mean a coach can't earn my "trust" back. But understand one thing about me if you understand anything else about me- I do not tolerate mediocrity from myself and I don't tolerate it from anyone else. I may not be good at everything, but I always give 100%. And I expect that from our coaches at MSU. And the **** I saw on the field this year isn't going to cut it. I'm not saying I expect us to win every game, but we can damn well bust our *** every play. And we can damn well line up and not be confused and have a coach that can adjust and adjust to our talent. And I have found in my experience that people that are mediocre- it's just usually a LOT easier to get rid of them rather than ask them to not be mediocre. Who knows? Maybe Chris will learn a lesson from this. You want all this data- well, Chris has given me 12 games of data this year to not 17 up and more often than not, he has. That's enough data for me, and it should be enough for Dan.

Speaking of- we'll see what Dan does. I don't expect him to fire anyone before a bowl. Because it's pointless. I'll give him a chance to fix this, but until he does- he is going to catch flak from fans because that is what happens when you do a mediocre job. I don't really give a **** if he is about to pass Bear Bryant in wins- or what he has done in the past because that is in the past. Because if we want to advance this program, not leaning on the past and being progressive is what it's going to take.

You talk about being out-athleted- we didn't have to start Cherry. Whose decision was that? You put Quay out there, and things look better for the entire d-line. A competent coach would do that, and maybe not wait until the end of the year to move Eulls inside. Heck, Eulls and Boyd would have been better than Cherry and Boyd. I would have probably tried moving Skinner to DE and Cam to MLB and Whitley and McKinney to OLB and then used either Wells, Hughes, or Dee Arrington at safety. We should have seen some major changes on defense after the Texas A&M game and we just didn't see it happen. I just don't buy the "we don't have talent arugment". We start three d-linemen that were at least 4 star guys- and that's with Cherry in the lineup, you replace him with Quay and then it's four, McKinney just made all freshman SEC, Whitley made all freshman his freshman year, and Banks and Slay are NFL guys. Cam, Deontae Skinner, and Broomfield are all solid players as well. Wells and Dee are four star guys and they're usually sitting on the bench.