It would look like we convinced this 4 star kid to give up his senior year to come here. Kid gets hurt and we push him out the door. We are not Alabama or OSU. Our selling point for top QB recruits has to involve a punch line that we will prioritize him. Greg had to do everything within reason to give Gavin a real shot to develop this year. If we don’t win 6 he will not be the QB next year.
This Game was a Building Block
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It would look like we convinced this 4 star kid to give up his senior year to come here. Kid gets hurt and we push him out the door. We are not Alabama or OSU. Our selling point for top QB recruits has to involve a punch line that we will prioritize him. Greg had to do everything within reason to give Gavin a real shot to develop this year. If we don’t win 6 he will not be the QB next year.
If we can run the ball, these numbers are just fine. If our ground game becomes like VTech’s Gavin isn’t the answer. Not even with a borderline elite defense. If you have to throw often you need a guy who is automatic on routine passes. A guy who struggles with screen routes is really limiting without a run game from the RBs. There are only so many QB draw plays we can call.
I think we need to throw more to Aaron Younf out of the backfield. These seem to be throws Gavin can make. Next two games, we should be able to run the ball. It’s what comes after, which is a big question mark.
100% agree. We will perpetually be in this spot if we are worrying about feelings. Does Texas worry about hurting Ewers feelings when recruiting Manning? In order to improve your roster you need to stock up when you can. **** Wisconsin brought in 4 qb’s (3 transfers) in the off season. They had 6 experienced qbs on the roster. And here we are worrying if a 3rd year qb will get his feelings hurt if we bring in someone else.
Agree with this mindset, even before NIL. You have to have options, the more you have the better. Athletes have options to leave and find playing time (which I support) and the schools have to try to get as many options on the roster as they can as well.
From the article:
Deion Sanders is all about NIL.
But Colorado’s Coach Prime likewise is making sure his players – or college athletes, in general – understand that earning money via endorsement deals and Name, Image and Likeness opportunities also carries extra scrutiny for those athletes.
“They want to be treated like pros, but you’ve got to understand, now there’s scrutiny like the pros,” Deion Sanders told TIME. “There's cuts. There's dissatisfaction. So, you can have a pity-party and want it both ways.
“‘Well, I'm still a kid.’ ‘No, no. You’ve got a Benz parked outside.’”
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We are NOT worried about feelings. From a recruitment standpoint this is about managing perception looking forward. Nothing more.
What we did with bringing in a QB a year early isn’t that common. We want that “family” reputation and kicking Gavin to the curb this off-season by bringing in a portal kid to likely play over him wasn’t the image we were going for after convincing a kid to give up his senior year. This rebuild is about the long haul. I also doubt we had the NIL funds available to bring in a true difference maker from the portal so our staff decided it wasn’t worth the downsides to bring in a graduate kid that might get us an extra win this season.
The decision not to keep Evan in after the TD drive was telling IMO. The only reason to play Gavin again after taking that hit is to avoid the chemistry issues that might come with a QB controversy should Evan drive us the length again for another TD. At least that’s the way I see it. To be clear, I think Evan has limitations and he wouldn’t be my choice against a team with a strong pass rush defense. When Evan has time though he can make throws. We’ve seen that consistently. And Our OL held up in pass protection Saturday so…
But why is bringing in additional talent viewed as “kicking someone to the curb?”
You bring in people to compete. If Gavin is the best option he plays. If he is not he needs to work harder to get on the field. Rewarding someone because they came a year early is the definition of worrying about hurting someone’s feelings. And the story when Gavin came was that it was his idea to come early, not the coaching staff, because there were rumors about his high school not having a full year of football.
That sounds good in theory but it’s not the reality of how things work. No quality transfer was coming to Rutgers to “compete” with Gavin. If we were getting a grad transfer there would’ve been a strong expectation that player would become the starter.
But there were 4 qbs willing to go to Wisconsin to compete? Didn’t say anything about grad transfers. I’m talking about options. We have Evan and Gavin and to a lesser extent Shepard. That is not enough heads in that room
One thing about QBs they all think they can win the job. You bring in talent when you can, not when you have to. And we did neither. We needed to and we had to.
And again I am not saying Gavin can’t make it work here. I think the kid has the tools. I’m mot giving up on him. I think many of the problems this past week were the play call versus execution.
Wisconsin didn’t have an “incumbent” like Gavin to start. So a bunch of guys went there to basically gut it out on even footing.
Gavin wasn’t an incumbent. Vedral was the starter last year. And Wisconsin brought in a multi year starter from SMU and was still able to bring a 4 star transfer a 4 star freshmen and 2 other transfers.
We cannot recruit the way Wisconsin and Texas do because we lack support, tradition of success, and facilities. Furthermore our half to 70% full stadium is hardly a selling point.
The QBs going to Wisconsin are getting paid. Gavin’s our guy, come hell or high water.
Going into this season, Gavin was the incumbent. He finished out last year as our starter.
What’s funny is you say the QBs are getting paid. And the only articles I see online regarding nil and Wisconsin is that they are woefully underfunded and behind in this aspect. The only one I can see that did got paid was Mertz and he left for a pay day in Florida.
Can you show me where these transfers got paid? Interested to find out.
Deals are not publicly available information. Here is an article showing that the starting quarterback is getting paid by Pepsi of Madison.
Wisconsins collective also ran a Times Square billboard.
Most players worth anything these days are getting paid everywhere. That’s not even the point.
The bottom line is we needed to upgrade the trenches more than we needed to bring in an army of Noah Vedral caliber (at best) QBs. We weren’t getting better than that to come to Rutgers given the track record of our OL and our weak WO room. Certainly not to compete with each other for the job. We needed to use most of our scholarships to work on building our lines. Which is exactly what we’ve done. You have no idea that the back ups we would’ve brought in would be better than the 2 guys on the bench anyway.
That was the only article I could find also. And I don’t know many high paying NIL’s that are not advertised. Why would someone pay out large sums and not advertise. Makes zero sense.
Not denying any of that. But the argument you made earlier was we didn’t bring in QBs because we didn’t want to send the wrong message (family was used) and not to alienate Gavin. I’m all for upgrading the OL and other skill positions. But they are not mutually exclusive. Only having 3 heads in the qb room is a recipe for disaster.
Let’s look at this a different way. Does anyone really think swapping QBs in Saturday’s game would’ve flipped the game outcome? If so, that’s just foolish.
Mordecai’s team ran for 213 yards. That was indisputably the difference in the game. Not QB play. When your team is able to run, it chances everything. If nothing else, everyone must realize that with Greg as our coach there’s zero chance of that pick six happening if we were having any success running because we would’ve kept the ball on the ground for sure.
Mordecai’s team ran for 213 yards. That was indisputably the difference in the game. Not QB play. When your team is able to run, it chances everything. If nothing else, everyone must realize that with Greg as our coach there’s zero chance of that pick six happening if we were having any success running because we would’ve kept the ball on the ground for sure.
NIL gets overblown often. It isn't publicly available and many things are just rumor mill and ginning up numbers to make things sound good.
Are there big deals out there and players getting paid good money, for sure but it's not everyone and not everywhere.
I just saw recently a MSU NIL (spartan4life or spartandogs4life I don't remember) stopping and canceling contracts that they had outstanding. Not even sure how they can do that. basically sounded like they ran out of money.
I don't believe everything out there or rumors because too much is behind the curtain to know what is actually real. I'm more likely to believe quite a bit is inflated than reality.
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I agree that NIL is being blown out of proportion. There are very few teams/players getting big pay days with real money changing hands. Most are “in kind” transactions. Use of cars, use of jewelry, use of living accommodation’s etc….
Let me clarify - we were not going all in to recruit one feature QB to be “the guy” who was a stud clear as day starting QB who had starter stats with good numbers somewhere else. From a messenging perspective that would’ve driven Gavin out the door and we weren’t looking to do that.
The reasons in my previous post explain why we didn’t bring in a Noah or two. I don’t think competing to maybe not get the role at RU where you have limited OL protection historically and we don’t have great receivers would’ve been super appealing to anyone who would actually be material upgrades over Evan or our new frosh. That’s why.
For me it's not about what's on the roster currently. If GW is the best of what we have so be it and you do the best you can with what you have.
My issue has always been after year 1. NV wasn't a good enough qb imo, (consistent passing ability and quick thinking are most important imo) and we've never found more reliable options since then. There are players out there and they need to be found or unearthed.
Bailey Zappe came from Houston Baptist and led the country in passing. Austin Reed University of West Florida and up there as well last year. Cam Ward from Incarnate Word did solid last year for WSU and blooming this year. There are qbs out there from lower levels or other G5/P5 schools that are looking for playing time and don't require some big NIL deal. It's the staff's job to find them and see that they fit.
Not everyone you get (transfer or recruit) will pan out and that's part of the point. You need options because the more options you have, the better chance one of them will pan out.
Here's an article related to that MSU NIL cancelling deals. I don't even understand how that is done, unless there are clauses for it. If they can do it, who knows what others are doing too that we don't hear about or how often it happens.
You seem to be missing the point. We weren’t getting a stud FCS QB to come to Rutgers to compete for the starting spot against Gavin Wimsatt (no guarantee at all of playing time) all for the right to get clobbered by OSU. It wasn’t exactly an attractive opportunity. The OL is trending up on pass protection so the QB role may be more appealing next off season. That’s the good news. Now if only we could find ourselves a Caroo type receiver we’d really be in business.
Yes WKU and WSU were very attractive opportunities lol. Freaking Michigan's one time starting qb went to Iowa, an offense that's more hapless than most everyone out there and now he's out for the season.
Don't tell me specifically who can or can't be gotten cause no one knows for sure. I do know for sure potential contributors can be gotten because I see it happen on the landscape.
Look at our history and look whom we gotten as qb transfers. We are last in the pecking order and a last resort. Until shown otherwise, we are better of developing our own QBs and that’s exactly what we’re doing.
The QB who started for us at the end of the season was still on the roster. He also came in as a HS senior (unprecedented at the time) and it was widely viewed as his job to lose. The schools you are talking about were not in that situation. If Gavin had hypothetically decided to transfer we would’ve been able to secure someone like that who’d be thinking the starting job was in the bag. Pretty much anyone else we were getting would be just like the 2 guys we have already on the bench. I hear your point that maybe we hit the Jack pot with the next Bridgewater but the odds of that happening are low and instead we just have a QB room of 4-5 bench guys who aren’t doing much for us even at practice. I’d rather do what we did which was bring in more OL depth with the remaining schollies.
Again - I don’t think there was anyone available who reasonably would’ve considered RU who would be making a difference right now. If Tanner Mordechai was our QB we’d likely be sitting at the same 4-2 record. He’s not much more than a game manager either - Wisky is just better than us in the trenches.
Again I get all of that. Don't necessarily agree but i get it. But you keep glancing over the fact we have 3 qb's, one being a true frosh, on the roster. We lost a qb in the pre season and another within the first 2 weeks of last year. We are 2 snaps away from having a WR as a back up QB. There was a need to add heads to the room last year and we did not do that. That is all I am saying. I am not worried about kumbaya or sending the wrong message. I am worried about not having a sufficient roster.
The way I see it, we always have Langhan to step in as a game manager if we need to dip into 4th string options.
You may disagree - but think about it for a minute. Your suggesting we take a gamble on an FCS hopeful who put up good looking numbers to fill the back up to the back up (and second back up) slot, right?
What makes you think those options are better than Johnny? Before you crap on the kid recall that our OL absolutely stunk in 2019. As far as I’m concerned Johnny’s numbers in the Liberty game (the one game our line wasn’t outmatched) prove his worth as our 4th string. That Liberty team went 8-5 by the way. Johnny went 15-21 for 192 yards and no picks in that game. Good enough for a 4th string game manager in my book any day of the week.
Excuse me, how dare you bring logic to this discussion!
You’re confusing me with someone else regarding FCS. I never suggested anything about FCS. And you infer my opinion on Johnny Langan. I think the kid is all heart and does what is asked of him above and beyond. But if you think someone that has been converted to TE and hasn’t taken a meaningful snap at QB in 3 years outside of wildcat action is a legitimate option tells me all I need to know.
I don’t know how you can deny the fact that there was a need to add heads to that room. The qb room is tremendously under represented. You need a minimum 2 more heads in that room. We needed to increase numbers and we didn’t. Our competition did. Wisconsin did so with a new staff at a new school with no time. We sat around and took 45+ days to hire an OC.
Gavin is playing and I don’t think he is doing a bad job but if he truly was doing a bad job or got hurt where do we go from there? We don’t have many options. And the reason we don’t have options is because we are woefully understaffed in that position room. That is all I am saying.
Watching Kirk for a year at Penn State it was so predictable. Run on first down, short pass/screen on second and then draw or deep pass on third down.
Your goal? Lol good grief.
Gavin is 44/93 on passes this season against every team not named Wagner, good for a 47.3% completion percentage which would rank DEAD LAST in CFB…. That’s not ‘acceptable’ Al
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You don't be come a good team by switching your QB's around when they make a bad play. It happens you move on. Not jump off of the bridge. Man, the kid only has 2 ints on the season. Not many QB's in college football can say that
I think someone who put up those numbers against an 8-5 FBS team is probably a better 4th String option than most non blue blood teams have. But I could be wrong.
You could be right. But that was never the debate! It wasn’t about a 4th string option. You don’t bring someone in to be a 4th string option. That is a waste of time and resources. You bring in someone to compete. It was about not bringing bodies into that room to create additional competition. If that additional competition turned out to be 4th string, great. It means we have the right people in that room. But not going after additional talent because you may hurt someone’s feelings will have a detrimental effect on the program. Not just at qb but across the board.