Tyler Russell stuff

[o_hacker]

...

Before the beginning of his 2006 senior season, there was speculation that Leak might not be the Gators' starting quarterback due to the emergence of talented freshman Tim Tebow.[SUP][4][/SUP] Instead, Meyer publicly endorsed Leak as the starting quarterback and confirmed Tim Tebow would be the back-up. Preseason analysis projected that Florida would have the hardest schedule in the country, including back-to-back games against Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, LSU, Auburn and Georgia. The 2006 season proved to be a redemption year for Leak: leading the Gators to their first SEC Championship since 2000, and a spot in the 2007 BCS National Championship Game against Ohio State University (the Gators' first championship game appearance since 1996). Leak also broke many Gators' passing records set by Heisman Trophy-winner Danny Wuerffel, including Wuerffel's record for career passing yards set during the 2006 SEC championship game.
Leak led the Florida Gators to their second consensus national championship with a 41–14 victory over the Ohio State Buckeyes on January 8, 2007, taking home the offensive Most Valuable Player (MVP) award for the game. His performance was solid throughout the BCS championship game, completing his first nine passes at the start of the game, and finishing with twenty-five completions in thirty-six attempts for 213 yards and one touchdown.

 

[Koldfire]

Amen, Brother.

 

[Coach34]

Chris Leak had 4 future NFL WR's and TE's to throw to- we lose every starter at WR and TE

 

[SwingAway]

Chris Leak had 4 future NFL WR's and TE's to throw to- we lose every starter at WR and TE

Now why would you ruin the pass first dreams with those facts. Certainly returning no pass catchers but all runners means we should keep slinging the rock.

10 3rd down conversions in our 4 SEC losses
22% 3rd down rate
2010 had DOUBLE the 3rd down rate as 2012 in the losses
56 rypg in 2012 losses which were blowouts
170 rypg in 2010 losses which were mostly competitive
Tougher schedule in 2010 than 2012
Dak > Relf

How many times must we go through this people? Russell is not elite, Russell does not fit Mullen, Russell was taken out of necessity, Russell is not a good decision maker, Russell holds on to the ball too long.

Mullen realized during Alabama that the Koenning Russell combo would not work. It was too late in the season to change an offense from what you did in camp and the previous 7 games. I think looking forward he knew exactly what was about to unfold and it did. That's why he seemed nonchalant. There was literally nothing offensively that could be done. It was his fault that the offense was so bad because he let other entities take over from his vision.

Changing the D coaches is easy. That's not his arena so "it's 17ed up Chris, you're in charge, get out" was made. Mullen knew it would take a spring and fall to overhaul the system on offense. We ask why didn't Dak play the rest of the Gator Bowl? Why would he. It's not his offense. It was the Tyler offense with the Dak package. No sense in doing that to the kid when he will enjoy a fresh beginning come spring.

I fully believe Mullen, while hesitant, thought he could make it work with Russell. I hope he believed that. That kind of ego in a coach is very healthy. Alabama gave him the pause and A&M sealed the deal on the Tyler Spread. The season was a failure because the Tyler Spread was a failure. Championships could not be won with it so it was pointless.

Dak will be given every chance to win the job in camp and if he is what me Coach and others think then he will win it because it gives us the best chance of success and competeability (my word) against the big boys where the Tyler Spread has no shot

As with Engie if nothing changes I become very skeptical of Dan.

 

[gymdawg.sixpack]

the guy threw like 10 interceptions in the 2 most important games of the yr.

hear a lot of people blaming other's for russell's faults. he had the same offensive line, rbs, tes, coaches, scheme, etc against tsun and nw as he did for bama, ark, txam, etc. and yet he sucked the big one in the important games? so he's not to blame when he throws a fazillion interceptions to defenders nowhere near a reciever, but he gets credit when he does well/ok against teams that were better (bama, lsu, txam)? look, the guy has no balls! he choked when the pressure was really on. either that or he got paid to blow those games. those shpuld be the 2 issues being discussed when it comes to Tyler Russell.
and NO, he should not start next yr. he lost that job when he sucked worse than a retatrded michael henig with no arms! especially when all indications point to having a better qb already in place; who should have played in both the egg bowl and the gator!

idk why these damn posts keep ending up in the wrong spots, and im going to bed and too tired to move it, or have the knowhow to do so. SORRY, smileyface..

 

[Railin Jemmye]

None of that factors in flow of the game, momentum, and other intangibles. I've told you the way I feel about your numbers before. Again, I doubt you ever played football before. But that's OK, you bring another angle to the discussion. Not hating on your numbers, I just don't agree.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Perhaps because you are using those losses to justify benching Russell and to show why our offense sucks. I am using the wins to prove otherwise. You know, the other side of the coin? Seeing how we finished ranked 38 in the BCS out of 120 teams or so, I'd say that means we did OK overall.

 

[Coach 57]

Okay let's try it this way.

Tyler Russell is BY FAR the best "pocket passer" Ed have ever had at MSU. Even with his flaws that I have described in detail....STILL the best (Cookie & Goat that's for you) pocket passer that has ever wore maroon and white.




But with our staff (here ya go engie & Cadaver) as it will remain from last season on offense and the wr core being very young he (Tyler) does NOT give us the best opportunity for success next yr.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Again: Why is benching Russell the only way to have a run oriented offense?

asked that question in the last thread. got crickets. Apparently the answer doesn't fit the agenda of bitching and whining. But would love to see some dubmass ****** try and slant the answer towards that agenda.

 

[Miles4MSU01]

Exactly. For all the harsh critics of a fine young man that great citizen, human being, and has all passing records and by way in first season as full time starter won 8 games in a division thats tougher than most NFL divisions. I have all faith in world cause i expect his finest season next year as i did before this season and watch what happens when he does get to NFL. Saban wanted him bad even after McCarron was committed and actually had said he thought he was better.

 

[Coach 57]

You don't need great receivers to spread a defense. You need a quick decision making qb who can read a defensive coverage. Wr needs to be sure handed and able to make people miss. When u have that type of wr with the offense we ran this year the wr is out of his element.

Look, all of us want Tyler to succeede but if we are more efficient with a lesser qb that can run, that is the way we need to go.

No doubt Gravedigger is 100% accurate on this.

 

[Coach 57]

As stated many times before by myself and C34 bit will gladly do it again. If (and that's a SOLID if) there are no changes to the offensive coaching staff I.e Koenning aren't made the offense's scheme will NOT change. So understanding that we are pretty much going to run the same offensive philosophy we ran last yr. But now we'll do it with MUCH younger WRs. Let me tell you what trams are going to do. They are going to do EXACTLY what they did in the last few games of this yr. Load the box, blitz to stop the run and to put pressure on Tyler (a qb who although accurate holds onto the ball too long) and dare him to throw in man press defense. Couple of things....

When you have Sr WRs like we had this past season, yes they weren't separation demanding WRs like Alshon Jeffrey or like Dez Bryant. But they had been in a D1 weight program for 4 yrs. Their bodies had developed muscle that the WRs who are coming in just don't have. Couple that with the familiarity Tyler had with Chris and Bump and even Ceto. Do you honestly think that we will be BETTER at either with him behind center? Because at the end of the day, Dak doesn't necessarily need the developed WRs as bad as Tyler does as he is not a pocket passer.

Now if our RBs weren't as solid as I think they are, our OL as matured and aggressive in the run game as they seem to be or even (engie here ya go) if we were to hire a TRUE passing game coordinator from an air raid offense (troy type) to coach and implement his system to help Tyler I can tell you this...I would say Tyler needs to be the starter. But the biggest problem with my last point is this....DAN WON'T LET THAT HAPPEN! Because at the end of the day....Les is NOT our OC Dan is!

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

So we need to tailor the play-calling to the strengths of the team?

I agree with that. However, that does not mean that we have to throw it 50 times a game, nor that Dak has to be the QB. If Tyler is the better QB (and he is), then he should play and the offense should be tailored to what our players do best.

I'm not taking fault with the principle that you are discussing. What I'm taking fault with is these posters who keep insisting that Dak is the only way we can win. It is extremely possible to have a good running game based offense without having to play Dak. So if we return an experienced OL, experienced RB group, and experienced QB, why should we not use those strengths and go that route as opposed to scrapping one of those strengths? That does not mean that you have to move to a pro-style offense either.

C34 posted a quote saying that you had to fit your style to the strengths of your players. Somehow that was proof that we have to start Dak. I have no idea, though, how you can skip over the fact that returning an experienced QB is one of our strengths. So lets plan around our strengths, and end this dumbass discussion.

 

[Chesusdog]

We're not going to bench Russell. We shouldn't. Should Dak see more time, though? Yes. What we should do, as many others have stated, is tailor our offense to better suit our personnel. More carries for Robinson and, if he's healthy, Griffin. Use Perkins more in the passing game and as part of the option. He had some great games this year and can run the ball, but we have better runners. They also need to work with Russell on getting through his progressions deeper and having him go to a check down, like Perkins, if the play isn't developing downfield. I saw several opportunities missed this year where Perkins or another one of our backs was open coming out of the backfield and all our wide outs were well covered. The five wide set should be scrapped; it rarely netted us anything positive.

 

[Coach34]

aGAIN- I'm fine with Russell remaining the QB- as long as we make the offensive changes to make him successful. Read my original post again- I didnt designate Dak as being the only way to go. I said we need to identify as and then use our strengths on offense.

You talk about having an experienced QB- and that's fine. He is very accurate up to 20 yards or so, not mobile, and loses all his starting WR's. So either changes need to be made- or we need to lean on the OL and RB's more in my opinion. And if we lean on the RB's and OL more in our current scheme- then you have to put Dak at QB- because Tyler cant handle the running aspect it requires.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Exactly. For all the harsh critics of a fine young man that great citizen, human being, and has all passing records and by way in first season as full time starter won 8 games in a division thats tougher than most NFL divisions. I have all faith in world cause i expect his finest season next year as i did before this season and watch what happens when he does get to NFL. Saban wanted him bad even after McCarron was committed and actually had said he thought he was better.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh {makes sheep noise}

 

[Shmuley]

This is a fine example of some of the finest sheep **** I've ever had the fine opportunity to review finely.

 

[tenureplan]

thhhhhwwwftthhhhhwwwwtthhhhthhhwwwwthhh - That was the sound of coach34 walking around with your nose up his ***

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I do agree with the need to tailor the offense to best suit the players

Perhaps yours was the wrong handle to use. I really only used it because of the quote you posted in the other thread. There have just been so many threads on this recently that its hard to keep up with what has been said by whom.

Just seems that there has been this strong msg board push for Dak, when frankly, that is probably not our best option. The best option is to tailor the offense to fit all of our assets, and Tyler is one of those assets. (Dak as a change of pace is as well)

 

[CadaverDawg]

thhhhhwwwftthhhhhwwwwtthhhhthhhwwwwthhh - That was the sound of coach34 walking around with your nose up his ***

Haha, you pick out the 1 thing I agree with him on?

Trust me, it's painful to be on Coach's side. But this topic is so obvious. By the way, Coach is on MY side. He has nothing to do with my opinion on this. You think I would side with him AND MSDawg34 if they weren't 100% in agreement with me?*

 

[CadaverDawg]

Perhaps yours was the wrong handle to use. I really only used it because of the quote you posted in the other thread. There have just been so many threads on this recently that its hard to keep up with what has been said by whom.

Just seems that there has been this strong msg board push for Dak, when frankly, that is probably not our best option. The best option is to tailor the offense to fit all of our assets, and Tyler is one of those assets. (Dak as a change of pace is as well)

Explain why Tyler is a better option with our current "assets". Seriously...I want to know how you think he can make the offense better next year than it was this year. Keep in mind, we are basing this on having the same coaches and scheme on offense, bc that is most likely.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

If you would read what I said, you'd notice that I keep saying that we need to "tailor the offense to fit our players". That would involve not running the offense the same exact way we did this season. We need to take advantage of a scheme that fits Tyler, uses the RBs properly, uses the OL properly, and utilizes Dak as a change of pace. I believe that is our best strategy.

Simply saying 17 it and just running the GT offense like we did with Relf is in no way shape or form taking advantage of the talent of our players in the best way possible. There are a million ways to tweak the current offense to take advantage of our talent that doesn't involve sitting our best QB on the bench.

It's okay, I don't expect you to be able to wrap your mind around this.

 

[Coach 57]

I might be in the minority on here but I actually think LdP is what we need.
I think he can be an every down back. I also think that with Tyler in the game he provides us with better production for Tyler exclusively though. If Dak is in they need to switch to another set. A healthy Griffin is the best RB we have on the roster.


Chesusdog, Tyler doesn't have great arm strength. Can't go deeper and he is decent enough in reading his progressions to be successful. Our offense's problem is that the routes the WRs run aren't advanced enough to break into separation early enough for Tyler to utilize his ability. That's not a Tyler problem that's not even a personnel issue it's a a problem within the scheme. This is what we are saying. No matter who is at qb either one will face a loaded box and man press coverage. The only difference between the formations they will face is Tyler MIGHT face a nickel coverage and Dak possible face a base look. But regardless both will face man press by the DBs. How you break it is by running combination routes to create proper spacing for Tyler to complete an accurate pass. We aren't running combo routes we are running very basic to intermediate routes.

 

[CadaverDawg]

If you would read what I said, you'd notice that I keep saying that we need to "tailor the offense to fit our players". That would involve not running the offense the same exact way we did this season. We need to take advantage of a scheme that fits Tyler, uses the RBs properly, uses the OL properly, and utilizes Dak as a change of pace. I believe that is our best strategy.

Simply saying 17 it and just running the GT offense like we did with Relf is in no way shape or form taking advantage of the talent of our players in the best way possible. There are a million ways to tweak the current offense to take advantage of our talent that doesn't involve sitting our best QB on the bench.

It's okay, I don't expect you to be able to wrap your mind around this.

No, I read it. But for some reason you can't wrap your head around the fact that IT AIN'T GONNA 17ING HAPPEN. That's what you guys don't understand. Mullen's offense is going to run some version of "the Mullen offense" which is a spread option. They tried to mix in more passing to "fit the personnel(Tyler)", but it led to an average at best offense. So.....Why continue 17ing with an offensive scheme to try and make it work for 1 guy for 1 season, when you have nothing but dual threat guys behind him that are tailored to fit "the Mullen offense"??? It's not that hard.

Everyone seems to want to see this massive scheme change on offense, but that is not only illogical but it's not going to happen and everyone knows it. If that were going to happen, it would have happened last year when we KNEW Tyler was the guy and he was a passing QB.

Once again, this isn't Tyler's fault, it doesn't mean Dak is a "better QB" than Tyler, it just means that he fits the "Mullen offense" far better. Now, for any of you opposing this stance, you have to be able to face the fact that we aren't changing the scheme in order to understand my views on this.

 

[SwingAway]

If you would read what I said, you'd notice that I keep saying that we need to "tailor the offense to fit our players". That would involve not running the offense the same exact way we did this season. We need to take advantage of a scheme that fits Tyler, uses the RBs properly, uses the OL properly, and utilizes Dak as a change of pace. I believe that is our best strategy.

Simply saying 17 it and just running the GT offense like we did with Relf is in no way shape or form taking advantage of the talent of our players in the best way possible. There are a million ways to tweak the current offense to take advantage of our talent that doesn't involve sitting our best QB on the bench.

It's okay, I don't expect you to be able to wrap your mind around this.

It is my opinion that the spread option with Dak would be much more effective than ANYTHING with Russell because of the new band of receivers that will be out there. Also I believe Russell is not as great as many on here think. Look at the RelfCoast in 2010. That is with a QB that could not throw the ball. Dak can, and Dak's offense won't lead to the need to force so many throws resulting in OM and NW embarrassments.

It's really simple. Lets go back to 2010 with a quarterback who is better at running and passing than we had then.

or

We could repeat 2012 with a few tweaks, brand new WR, and playing twice as many teams with heartbeats.

An entirely new team identity is needed people. Do you think anybody wanted a piece of us in 2010? Michigan knew what was coming. The Bears knew what was coming. We are going to line up and smash you. This finesse **** infects everyone. Its not who we are because its not who our leader, Mullen, is. Finesse in Auburn and Fayettenam this year is a guaranteed loser. You people think we have a shot against LSU? Not with that ********. They will be new in many areas coming off a Georgia game. Let's inflict more pain on their young guys, not let them pin their ears back. We need to get mean again and play that nasty Bulldog football that used to be feared.

 

[FISHDAWG]

17em Miles ... I agree .... and so did they back when Relf was struggling .... all the kid wanted to do was to play for MSU and now these bastards have turned on him like he was the antichrist .... he could have transferred but he stuck it out .... I would hate to hear these guys if Russell doesn't have the new passing records .... let me remind these fickled bastards how they at one time clamored for Russell .... the kid has done everything asked of him ... if they want to blame anyone they need to go above Tylers head

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

So what you are saying is that Mullen is incapable of tweaking his system to try and fit his players? Notwithstanding the fact that he did so this past season already. Just because it didn't work as well as we'd hoped this year doesn't mean that additional tweaks would absolutely not produce results next season. That jump to conclusions may be great if printed on a jump to conclusions mat, but is not the absolute truth you seem to think it is.

Nowhere have I said that the entire scheme needs to change. It is possible to tweak things within in an established system. It's like you have locked yourself into this flawed logic loop, where you skip half the steps but can't seem to realize it.

 

[UIUCDog]

Not bad, but on your next attempt, try to throw in some additional verbs and articles.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I just don't understand the proposition that this is an "either/or" deal

EITHER we run the exact same offense as 2012 OR we run the exact same offense as 2010. Where in that logical chain did you decide to leave out everything in between and surrounding those 2 options?

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Agree completely. But remember, we got some idiots up in this fanbase. Every QB we've ever had has gotten booed off the field at one point or another.

 

[SwingAway]

So what you are saying is that Mullen is incapable of tweaking his system to try and fit his players? Notwithstanding the fact that he did so this past season already. Just because it didn't work as well as we'd hoped this year doesn't mean that additional tweaks would absolutely not produce results next season. That jump to conclusions may be great if printed on a jump to conclusions mat, but is not the absolute truth you seem to think it is.

Nowhere have I said that the entire scheme needs to change. It is possible to tweak things within in an established system. It's like you have locked yourself into this flawed logic loop, where you skip half the steps but can't seem to realize it.

Did you watch the Bama game? LSU? A&M? OM? NW? Our offense is not just a few tweaks from a ferrari. It had MAJOR problems. There is no tweak that can fix it. Those on the Russell bandwagon are crutched up by the aura of 8 wins 8 wins. We will not have that luxury this year. We go from playing 4 teams that aren't in naptime to 8. Look at what we accomplished against the teams that cared. Utter and complete humiliation in each one.

Utter and complete humiliation.

Will it really take a bowl-less season to prove to you that I am right?

 

[blacklistedbully]

The vast majority of TR posts I've seen, including my own, related to pulling TR in the Gator Bowl due to his performance. Not many I've read the suggested anything beyond the game itself.

 

[SwingAway]

The vast majority of TR posts I've seen, including my own, related to pulling TR in the Gator Bowl due to his performance. Not many I've read the suggested anything beyond the game itself.

A. What is the point of this post

B. I'm glad we left him in. Let him finish what he started and allow Dak to begin a fresh new offense in the spring. A very good coaching lesson by Mullen.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Now you are just twisting my argument around into a form that fits your argument. I get it. You want so bad to be right. You still don't understand the point that just because the offense needs work does not mean that you have to bench your best QB. Like I said, your personal logic chain is an "either/or" proposition and you completely ignore everything else. Good luck with that.

 

[Indndawg]

MSU Ringtones.....anybody....anybody.... Bueller....Bueller

Exactly. For all the harsh critics of a fine young man that great citizen, human being, and has all passing records and by way in first season as full time starter won 8 games in a division thats tougher than most NFL divisions. I have all faith in world cause i expect his finest season next year as i did before this season and watch what happens when he does get to NFL. Saban wanted him bad even after McCarron was committed and actually had said he thought he was better.

gah I hate the Genes Page crap

 

[FISHDAWG]

I figured you rebs would get a kick out of that .... comp was 35 years ago, I didn't have a clue as to what I was saying but I'm sure it was entertaining (about a post on Nafoom) ... I'm still defending Russell here

 

[Sam Adams Dog]

@swing away, how you're not up for the Oregon opening is amazing with your over the top knowledge. GEeeezzzz
Dont know if you have cable but Alabama, LSU and A&M were pretty good this year
Relf's sr year we won 6 games with that big strong offense you speak of and that was with Mullen just taking Relf out due to we had no hope with him in.

 

[blacklistedbully]

A. What is the point of this post

B. I'm glad we left him in. Let him finish what he started and allow Dak to begin a fresh new offense in the spring. A very good coaching lesson by Mullen.

A. I was responding to the OP, who seems to suggest there is a groundswell of folks who are adamant about TR not being the QB period. I was stating I think the majority of posts I read were not suggesting that, rather only suggesting TR should have been pulled no later than his 3rd INT, when we still had a chance to win.

 

[SwingAway]

@swing away, how you're not up for the Oregon opening is amazing with your over the top knowledge. GEeeezzzz
Dont know if you have cable but Alabama, LSU and A&M were pretty good this year
Relf's sr year we won 6 games with that big strong offense you speak of and that was with Mullen just taking Relf out due to we had no hope with him in.

Oh I get it every decent team that poor ol Mitipi Tate plays gives us a pass to look like horrendous. Horrible poster go back to the lake.

 

[Coach 57]

let me remind these fickled bastards how they at one time clamored for Russell .... the kid has done everything asked of him ... if they want to blame anyone they need to go above Tylers head

Uh are you related to Tyler or something? Besides nobody is saying it's Tyler's fault the problem is you people are so enamerd with stats and apparent feelings a 1 yr player you are failing to see what we are saying. You seem to think we are attacking Tyler the truth is nobody is. And you posting about "he's done every thing we've asked him to do." What does that have to do with anything. You would think he's your kid or something. Calm down. Nobody is attacking him. We (C34, Cadaver and myself) are just saying if Mullen doesn't properly adjust the offense based on personnel then we'll struggle. Not because Tyler sucks, even though apparently that's what you think we're saying bit because our staff and our returning personnel aren't ideal for him to grow and mature which in turn makes our offense better. That's all we're saying. Calm down.