Tyler Russell stuff

Sam Adams Dog

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
134
0
0
After reading many of the post related to Tyler, some very recent and many over the last few years, I think many are way to quick to pounce (mainly all of the collegiate level ex badass internet quarterbacks on here)

Dude isnt fast; he never said he was; He's not an option quarterback; Mullen knew that when he got here and still told him what he needed to to get him in that first signing class. I really doubt Mullen said " we are going to run a spread offense that requires a run oriented quarterback" to get Tyler to stay on board???? Tyler knows his game and he wouldnt have signed up for that with offers from Saban and Spurrier on the table.

Offensive line- below average at best
Running game- ok
Recievers- no one that can spread an offense and we seem to have 10 5'9, 4.6/40 WRs

I think he has done good with his ability and a head coach still trying to figure out how to use him.
 

Railin Jemmye

Redshirt
Oct 29, 2012
1,937
0
0
Good luck trying to spread logic around here on that front. SwingAway and Cadaverdawg to hijack the thread in 3.....2......1........
 

Shmuley

Heisman
Mar 6, 2008
23,794
10,576
113
The fact that Russell signed with us says less about how Mullen "sold" him and more about what options were truly available to him coming into signing day.
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
0
The fact that Russell signed with us says less about how Mullen "sold" him and more about what options were truly available to him coming into signing day.

exactly

Mullen didnt have a choice but to sign Russell- nobody else was on our radar and Mullen had less than a month to find a QB
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
No one is bashing Russell. See my post in the other Tyler Russell spread. Explains it simply...
 

CadaverDawg

Redshirt
Dec 5, 2011
6,409
0
0
Good luck trying to spread logic around here on that front. SwingAway and Cadaverdawg to hijack the thread in 3.....2......1........

No hijack...just discussion.

Coach and Scmuley are right......By the way, none of us are saying Tyler is bad or that we don't like him. We just don't think he gives us the greatest chance of success...due to No fault of his own. I think it would suck to see him ride the bench his Senior year (which he won't), but I never think you play a guy that gives you a lesser chance at success just because he is a Senior or for breaking shitastic passing records.

He will start next year, and I will be a big supporter of him while he's the QB for MSU. That doesn't mean I think it's the right choice, and that's why we discuss it on a message board. It's nothing personal towards Tyler...the timing, personnel, and coaching style just isn't the best fit for Russell in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Aug 5, 2011
1,222
0
0
TR is the best overall QB we've had in many, many years...

I agree with a lot of your points. Our o-line was good at times, but also piss poor at times but average overall. We used the wrong running back most of the season and our wide-receivers and play-calling were suspect at best. Yet, all of this is some how TR's fault? If we used the same scheme we used against TN the entire year and played with the same emotion, we could have won 9-10 games. But couple the already mentioned issues with a soft defense and you get a 1-5 finish. I told this board back in August that Wilson's D was soft but nobody listened.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
Our o-line was fine last year.

Our running game should have been better- we should have seen less a little bit less of Perkins carrying the ball, thrown it to Perkins more in the screen game, and used Griffen and Robinson more.

Our WR's need to get their **** together. Texas Tech, Kentucky, etc. can take WR's with similar talent and find ways to get them open and catch the damn ball.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
No hijack...just discussion.

Coach and Scmuley are right......By the way, none of us are saying Tyler is bad or that we don't like him. We just don't think he gives us the greatest chance of success...due to No fault of his own. I think it would suck to see him ride the bench his Senior year (which he won't), but I never think you play a guy that gives you a lesser chance at success just because he is a Senior or for breaking shitastic passing records.

He will start next year, and I will be a big supporter of him while he's the QB for MSU. That doesn't mean I think it's the right choice,NAND that's why we discuss it on a message board. It's nothing personal towards Tyler...the timing, personnel, and coaching style just isn't the best fit for Russell in my opinion.

I'm in favor of Tyler starting next year. No problem with it whatsoever. I'm not in favor of Koenning calling plays -- we need a pass-first spread OC to complement Mullen's knowledge in the run-first setup.
 

RocketDawg

All-Conference
Oct 21, 2011
18,948
2,067
113
Tyler is not only the best in many years, but he's the best I've ever seen at MSU. He just had a bad day in the Gator Bowl. I look for great things from him next year unless the message boards have completely destroyed his confidence.
 

CadaverDawg

Redshirt
Dec 5, 2011
6,409
0
0
I agree with a lot of your points. Our o-line was good at times, but also piss poor at times but average overall. We used the wrong running back most of the season and our wide-receivers and play-calling were suspect at best. Yet, all of this is some how TR's fault? If we used the same scheme we used against TN the entire year and played with the same emotion, we could have won 9-10 games. But couple the already mentioned issues with a soft defense and you get a 1-5 finish. I told this board back in August that Wilson's D was soft but nobody listened.

First of all, I agree that we used the wrong back most of the year, and our WR's and play calling lacked.

What I disagree with is, nobody said it's Tyler's fault. Why can't any of you guys understand that? Is it because it's the only thing to justify him starting next year? That he played well? Nobody is arguing that. But even with him playing well, we achieved a below average offensive output. And with all his WR's leaving, the writing is on the wall that it will not improve next year.

Also, you say that about the Tennessee scheme...and I agree we had a good offensive gameplan, but we also would have had to play a defense as ****** as Tennessee every game last year, and play them at home. That's a pretty big "if" statement you used there when you said "if we used the Tennessee scheme all year, we could have won 9-10 games"...only because it worked against that D.
 

CadaverDawg

Redshirt
Dec 5, 2011
6,409
0
0
Our o-line was fine last year.

Our running game should have been better- we should have seen less a little bit less of Perkins carrying the ball, thrown it to Perkins more in the screen game, and used Griffen and Robinson more.

Our WR's need to get their **** together. Texas Tech, Kentucky, etc. can take WR's with similar talent and find ways to get them open and catch the damn ball.

Agree 1000% on everything you said.
 

CadaverDawg

Redshirt
Dec 5, 2011
6,409
0
0
I'm in favor of Tyler starting next year. No problem with it whatsoever. I'm not in favor of Koenning calling plays -- we need a pass-first spread OC to complement Mullen's knowledge in the run-first setup.

Exactly. So in other words, "you're not in favor of Tyler starting next year", because Koenning isn't going anywhere it appears.
That's what I'm basing my stance on. If we get a passing brain on our offensive staff then I'm cool with Tyler starting. Otherwise, it makes no sense to start him with the current staff in place.
 

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
0
But couple the already mentioned issues with a soft defense and you get a 1-5 finish. I told this board back in August that Wilson's D was soft but nobody listened.

How about the soft offense that couldnt score until the 3rd quarter vs A&M?
How about the soft offense that couldnt score but 10 points vs Mississippi before garbage time even with the Defense getting them 3 turnovers?
How about the bowl game where the offense gave NW 14 points- which happened to be the margin we lost by?

Our defense has outperformed our offense in every season under Mullen
 
Last edited:

Railin Jemmye

Redshirt
Oct 29, 2012
1,937
0
0
That reading comprehension stumps you again. He was talking about Russell's options, not MSU's. Which, again, would make Schmuley wrong. I will say that Alabama did have McCarron committed at the time, but visiting other schools. Carolina had no one.
 

Railin Jemmye

Redshirt
Oct 29, 2012
1,937
0
0
What little credibility you had left = right out the window......

Our o-line was fine last year.

Good night. I'll give you this....it wasn't as bad as 2011. But still average, that's why it was adequate in the easier games but not in the difficult ones. Duh, even Auburn was putting shots on Russell. You'll see it get better next year.
 

Railin Jemmye

Redshirt
Oct 29, 2012
1,937
0
0
What about the 8 games we won? Defense outperformed offense??? What team were you watching? You're a blithering moron.
 

SidneyBurger

Redshirt
Oct 18, 2012
197
0
0
Agreed. Perkins has shown that he can catch the ball and take off in open space. Is there any reason why he can't be used at the slot and have Nick/whoever in at RB in certain packages?
 

SwingAway

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2012
266
0
0
Tyler is not only the best in many years, but he's the best I've ever seen at MSU. He just had a bad day in the Gator Bowl. I look for great things from him next year unless the message boards have completely destroyed his confidence.

A. Not that hard to accomplish

B. if it does hurt his confidence he shouldn't be there anyway.
 

SwingAway

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2012
266
0
0
What about the 8 games we won? Defense outperformed offense What team were you watching? You're a blithering moron.

So in other words "Why are you people focusing on the games we lost to show what we need to improve on?" That's smart Goat....
 

RocketDawg

All-Conference
Oct 21, 2011
18,948
2,067
113
A. True

B. True, but I was thinking about his Mom's post. The Tyler-bashing seems to be affecting him. I think he'll be OK.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
Exactly. So in other words, "you're not in favor of Tyler starting next year", because Koenning isn't going anywhere it appears.
That's what I'm basing my stance on. If we get a passing brain on our offensive staff then I'm cool with Tyler starting. Otherwise, it makes no sense to start him with the current staff in place.

If Koenning stays, it's a HUGE problem for me PERIOD. I don't care who starts. It's stupid to waste a talent like Tyler to save a retread OC who has been let go 6+ times in his career -- that we rescued from South Alabama(who didn't even have a TEAM YET!!). I'm in favor of Tyler starting next year. I'm just in favor of him doing it with a new OC. Tyler is NOT THE PROBLEM here -- that seems to be the disconnect here among opposing sides -- Koenning is.

I will lose my **** if we sacrifice Russell to save Koenning -- which is essentially what we are doing by keeping him on(and thus everyone preferring to rush in the Dak era). I'm not yet convinced that we are keeping him. I just don't know that we will see the change before signing day.

If we do, honestly my confidence in Mullen overall will be shaken. I'm happy with the moves on the defensive side -- but the lack of an itchy trigger finger on the offensive side is getting ridiculous at this point. THAT is the primary thing holding us back and holding him back as a HC. I'm not satisfied with offenses WELL in the lower half of FBS. Never will be. Address the problem and fix it. Tyler Russell is NOT that problem.
 

thf24

Redshirt
Jan 28, 2011
1,334
3
38
Good night. I'll give you this....it wasn't as bad as 2011. But still average, that's why it was adequate in the easier games but not in the difficult ones. Duh, even Auburn was putting shots on Russell. You'll see it get better next year.

The reason Russell got hit so much is because he held the ball too long. I'll say that despite being a Russell fan; it's simply the truth. But part of the reason he did is because most of the pass plays we ran were designed with nothing but slow-developing intermediate routes, which spells death for a pocket passer without a consistent running game. Our o-line was indeed fine given the scheme and play calls they were expected to block for.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
We tied for 35th in the nation in sacks allowed- allowing only 19 on the entire season. This with a QB that is constantly being criticized for holding onto the ball for too long.

QB's are going to take a few shots a game unless you just are playing a completely inferior opponent. Auburn had one of the best pass rushers in the nation in Lemonior and we held him in check.
 
Aug 5, 2011
1,222
0
0
You can't put this season's slide on the O...

1. A&M Game: The offense, defense, which gave up 38 points, nor coaches showed up to that one.

2. Ole Miss Game: Yes, we blew several opportunities to score, but I blame it more on poor play-calling rather than execution. DAK's pass over the middle? Just keep Tyler in the game and run the 17ing ball.

3. I'll give you the bowl game.
 

CadaverDawg

Redshirt
Dec 5, 2011
6,409
0
0
If Koenning stays, it's a HUGE problem for me PERIOD. I don't care who starts. It's stupid to waste a talent like Tyler to save a retread OC who has been let go 6+ times in his career -- that we rescued from South Alabama(who didn't even have a TEAM YET!!). I'm in favor of Tyler starting next year. I'm just in favor of him doing it with a new OC. Tyler is NOT THE PROBLEM here -- that seems to be the disconnect here among opposing sides -- Koenning is.

I will lose my **** if we sacrifice Russell to save Koenning -- which is essentially what we are doing by keeping him on(and thus everyone preferring to rush in the Dak era). I'm not yet convinced that we are keeping him. I just don't know that we will see the change before signing day.

If we do, honestly my confidence in Mullen overall will be shaken. I'm happy with the moves on the defensive side -- but the lack of an itchy trigger finger on the offensive side is getting ridiculous at this point. THAT is the primary thing holding us back and holding him back as a HC. I'm not satisfied with offenses WELL in the lower half of FBS. Never will be. Address the problem and fix it. Tyler Russell is NOT that problem.

I agree with you that none of it is a Tyler Russell problem...but what happens if we fire Les and get another coach that excels at the running spread?? Do you still think Tyler should start?

What I'm saying is, Mullen is the head guy and he is GOING to run a Spread Option or version of it. The more I think of us hiring a passing spread OC, I don't think it would work because Mullen wants overall control of the offense and he knows nothing about a passing offense.

Do you really think he would bring in a passing OC so that 1 year we could play a decent QB when we have running QB's in the wings?

Mullen wants to run his offense, so that's what he'll do. I have zero problem with him doing that if he has the pieces, which he does. That key piece is Dak Prescott though.

I don't even blame him for trying to use a convertible/hybrid offense this year. I think he did it because Dak was not quite ready, and to show loyalty to Russell by giving him a chance by changing the offense up....I get it. And it worked against the 8 cream puffs, but we don't have those next year, so it's time to abandon the change ups and do what we do best.
 
Last edited:

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
What about the 8 games we won? Defense outperformed offense What team were you watching? You're a blithering moron.

You should really, REALLY punch some numbers before ever calling anyone an idiot. I'll do that for you though.

JUST the 7 games we won(not counting the FCS game against JSU):

Defense
Team: We gave up - they averaged:
Arky: 14 - 23.5
MTSU: 3 - 26.6
UT: 31 - 36.2
UK: 14 - 17.9
USA: 10 - 18.5
Troy: 24 - 30.6
Auburn: 10 - 18.7

Average: 15.14 - 24.57
So, teams scored 9.43ppg less against us than they averaged.

Offense
Team: We scored - they averaged:
Arky: 45 - 30.4
MTSU: 45 - 28.0
UT: 41 - 35.7
UK: 27 - 31.0
USA: 30 - 29.5
Troy: 30 - 30.5
Auburn: 28 - 28.3

Average: 35.14 - 30.49
So, we scored 4.65ppg more than our opposing defenses averaged.

The offense is our bigger problem EVEN IN THE WINS by a margin of about 4.78ppg. Just making up that margin difference takes our scoring offense goes from 30.3ppg to 35.1ppg - enough to move us from 54th to 26th nationally. Keeping in mind, this is with our defense having a down year -- in which we found it necessary to rid ourselves of TWO assistants on that side. In our 2010 and 2011 seasons, you can bet this margin gets much, much wider(not running the math for you right now).
 
Last edited:

Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
0
Sure you can- they are easily as much to blame

Alabama? Our offense was terrible
A&M??? We had what- 2 first downs in the 1st half? How in the hell is that not an offensive problem?
LSU? The entire game changed on the fumble by the offense that set LSU up with field position and momentum
Mississippi??? If we take advantage of the turnovers and build a 14 point lead at half- that game ends differently
Bowl Game??? Can't even be argued
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
I agree with you that none of it is a Tyler Russell problem...but what happens if we fire Les and get another coach that excels at the running spread?? Do you still think Tyler should start?

What I'm saying is, Mullen is the head guy and he is GOING to run a Spread Option or version of it. The more I think of us hiring a passing spread OC, I don't think it would work because Mullen wants overall control of the offense and he knows nothing about a passing offense.

Do you really think he would bring in a passing OC so that 1 year we could play a decent QB when we have running QB's in the wings?

Mullen wants to run his offense, so that's what he'll do. I have zero problem with him doing that if he has the pieces, which he does. That key piece is Dak Prescott though.

I don't even blame him for trying to use a convertible/hybrid offense this year. I think he did it because Dak was not quite ready, and to show loyalty to Russell by giving him a chance by changing the offense up....I get it. And it worked against the 8 cream puffs, but we don't have those next year, so it's time to abandon the change ups and do what we do best.

It's Mullen's job to put his personnel in the best possible situation to succeed. He's failed at that thusfar with Tyler Russell, and if he hired another run-first OC just like him, he'd be failing again. Self-evaluation makes the difference between a good and great coach. Mullen is failing at self-evaluation or offensive evaluation at this point.

Mullen's job is to acquire the best mix of knowledge to make the team as successful as possible -- and ideally as diverse as possible. NOT having a pass-first OC to complement his run-first mentality is failing in that regard. We're not talking about getting a pro-style guy here. Limiting ourselves and failing to adapt is a problem...
 
Last edited:

SwingAway

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2012
266
0
0
Mullen has had an OC not like him recently and it has not worked. As a head coach his duties don't allow 100% control of the offense and doesn't give him time do do things like the necessary hours of game film to watch for preparation.

In my opinion Engie Mullen needs to get another person with the closest brain, philosophy, thoughts, instincts as him to make everything go smoother. Let's go forth with the Dan Mullen offense with the Dan Mullen QB and an OC that can step right into the void without missing a beat when Dan fulfills his head coaching duties. Sort of like a professor and his TA. It's the PhD's course but the TA is the hands on day to day doing the dirty work guy.
 

gravedigger

Redshirt
Feb 6, 2009
1,654
0
0
You don't need great receivers to spread a defense. You need a quick decision making qb who can read a defensive coverage. Wr needs to be sure handed and able to make people miss. When u have that type of wr with the offense we ran this year the wr is out of his element.

Look, all of us want Tyler to succeede but if we are more efficient with a lesser qb that can run, that is the way we need to go.
 

drt7891

Redshirt
Dec 6, 2010
6,727
0
0
Tyler Russell is not the problem... never has been, never will be. Hell, Tyler has 10 fold the talent and football smarts of Chris Relf, and Relf ran the more consistent offense. Everyone who pointed toward coaching hit the nail on the head, particularly cohesion between the OC and the head coach. Here are my thoughts:

1. Mullen's best offense is an option-read, run first scheme. He wants a quarterback that can open the defense up with mobility... see Tim Tebow and Chris Relf.,. coupled with an equally dangerous running-back. Even a 2 star wishbone QB was successful in Mullen's system

2. Russell does not exhibit either of those qualities. Russell could be compared more to Peyton Manning than anyone else in regards to his raw skillset. A quarterback with a great, accurate arm who prefers not to move around in the pocket. Nothing wrong with that.

3. I do not thing Mullen truly UNDERSTANDS the system in which Tyler Russell will be most successful. That is what this offense is missing. Our runs are a simple dive option or handoff, our passes focus on intermediate routes only. There is no variety. A defense knows that a heavy blitz to bring pressure and defending the 5-12 yard passes will mean a successful day against us.

So... what needs to change?

For Russell to be successful, simply look at the Denver Broncos or former Colts. What did Manning and the Colts do during their most successful years? Here's what they had:

1. Lot's of confusion up front. A quarterback who talks a LOT at the line of scrimmage back and forth. Making a defense THINK and be distracted... wondering what's coming next

2. A GREAT deep threat... a WR who was a master at deep post, corner, or fly patterns.... and Manning not afraid to challenge a 1 on 1 matchup. It would also be helpful if he was tall... or could challenge jump-ball or back-shoulder throws. This is a great way to open up the goal line

3. A tight-end who could screen, as well as challenge the middle of the field. This will keep the safeties honest... and make them respect the deep route, as well as the tight-end seam route over the middle

4. And this is what we DON'T have... a true slot receiver... a hot-route go-to guy who would run a quick dig, crossing, hitch, or slant pattern inside. If a team wants to challenge Manning (or Brees, this is also a good comparison), these QBs welcome it, because all they will do is go to their relief valve... who is always conveniently placed on the same side the blitz is coming from. You have no idea how much this simple addition opens up the field. It makes a team think twice about blitzing.

5. Receivers who, when a play breaks down, know exactly when to break into their patterns when a QB scrambles. WE don't do this well, either... partly because Russell will take a sack before he scrambles. this is an area that can greatly open up the field.

6. A running back that can challenge the front 7. Not a world-beater (Joseph Addai was not that good... but the system he was in MADE him good... because defenses had to respect the rest of the field).

Ultimately, we are too predictable. Russell would always settle into the pocket and, just like clockwork, pick his intermediate routes. Couple that with a predictable running-game, and that equals a lot of passing yards, but not really accomplishing scores. Mullen does not understand the deep intricacies of a true, pass-first offense... and personally, I think he is too stubborn to listen and hand over the reigns to someone who does.

Tyler has too much potential and raw talent... he can be coached by someone who can put him in a system that will take advantage of his strengths. Mullen simply can't do that.
 

chew1095

Redshirt
Feb 1, 2009
2,039
0
0
You mean plays are supposed to take 7 minutes to run? We have gone through every problem with the offense ad nauseum. The consensus is thus: **** needs to get fixed. I dont care if it is timely decision making, play calling what-the-17-ever it is, get the **** fixed now. We looked turrible in the last 6 games.

Mullen is making $2.7 to fix these problems and he needs to learn to adapt.