USMNT 2022 World Cup Qualifying Thread

GreggK

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Pepe has been trash. Pefok has been incredible, it makes no sense not picking him.
Berhalter is a trash manager though.
 

CyphaPSU

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This point is not my own, so I won’t take credit for it. But, when you’re allowed an extra three players on the WC roster, there is not much excuse for only including players who fit a certain mold or profile for a position (in a redundant way) when it results in a player, who is actually better than others but lacks the mold the coach likes, is left home. Put such a player on the roster because if what you have tactically planned with these “mold” players doesn’t work out in the first two games, then it may be great to have as an option someone who can do something a little different than the others. But, if that guy is not included, then what is your recourse?

I’m taking about Pefok.
 

Woodpecker

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This point is not my own, so I won’t take credit for it. But, when you’re allowed an extra three players on the WC roster, there is not much excuse for only including players who fit a certain mold or profile for a position (in a redundant way) when it results in a player, who is actually better than others but lacks the mold the coach likes, is left home. Put such a player on the roster because if what you have tactically planned with these “mold” players doesn’t work out in the first two games, then it may be great to have as an option someone who can do something a little different than the others. But, if that guy is not included, then what is your recourse?

I’m taking about Pefok.
I don't know a lot about soccer but I like the way the team played when Pefok was on the pitch.
 
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CyphaPSU

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I don't know a lot about soccer but I like the way the team played when Pefok was on the pitch.
It's an age-old question in coaching team sports: is it better to find a way to get all your best players on the field and then match your tactics to best suit them, or is it better to go with a set of tactics you think will work best and then find the "right" players for each position that are best suited for your system?

In other words, do you fit your coaching system to your players, or do you fit the players to your coaching system? I think Berhalter does more of the latter than he does the former, and I'm not convinced that is the best way to manage a national team with an open pool of players to choose from with limited numbers of times they play together.

I think Berhalter's approach necessarily ends up with scenarios in which a player or two who is actually more talented and productive overall is left out in favor of a player or two who the coach really sees as a good fit for his tactics. I think this is the case with Pefok and Brooks.

While Berhalter has demonstrated that he does have the ability and willingness to adapt and evolve some of his previous ideas about how the team should be constructed and tactically deployed, he still shows quite a bit of the tendency to fill in the roster with player profiles or molds he prefers, thus somewhat disregarding overall player production ability in some of his choices. In other words, we can end up with some players of lesser quality than what we could have chosen and that is what drives some fans crazy.
 
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Woodpecker

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Wow, they look really bad today. Leonard Pinth-Garnell (too ancient of a reference?) will need to review their performance.
 

LaJollaCreek

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Wow, they look really bad today. Leonard Pinth-Garnell (too ancient of a reference?) will need to review their performance.
Bad is too complimentary for that crap performance. There wasn't one single US player that played well. They were turnover machines....back 4 and midfield was awful.
 

Tom McAndrew

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Wow, they look really bad today. Leonard Pinth-Garnell (too ancient of a reference?) will need to review their performance.

Bad is too complimentary for that crap performance. There wasn't one single US player that played well. They were turnover machines....back 4 and midfield was awful.

certainly doesn't inspire much confidence for the World Cup. Their play has improved in the 2nd half, but still isn't stellar.
 
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LaJollaCreek

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certainly doesn't inspire much confidence for the World Cup. Their play has improved in the 2nd half, but still isn't stellar.
The entire midfield and back 4 just keep turning it over. Japan is forcing the US to the sideline, trapping them, and winning the ball back as the US has no answer in the middle of the field. We better pray Musah is healthy for the WC.
 
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GreggK

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Berhalter is trash. People will say, “but he won games and got us qualified”

What really happened is he took the most talented US team ever and had them barely qualify.

Zimmerman? Long? Pepe?!?! Trash.

Calling up Pepe over Pefok and playing Long in front of Carter-Vickers is all you need to know about Berhalter.

He is a disgrace to Gregg’s.
 

CyphaPSU

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Weston McKinnie has not been in form since returning from his injury so far this season and it showed. He was responsible for starting the first goal's counter, and he almost repeated the same feat later. His lack of form is a bigger deal to our squad than many talk about. But, he was not alone. It was amazing how they could not figure out how to pass and move against the press (especially in the first half). A lot of folks are clamoring about Long (and they should), but Zimmerman is just as big of a concern to me now. I lost count how many times he turned it over with errant passing in dangerous spots. This is precisely why it was an error by Berhalter to eliminate John Brooks from the player pool—we just do not have anyone as confident as he in progressive distribution.

Hardly any chance creation. It seems like we've reverted back to the days when our biggest threat to create chances comes from crosses into the box. If that is to be the case now, then why on earth is Pefok sitting home when one of his biggest proven strengths is scoring with his head? Again, another error in needlessly eliminating potential assets that can help in areas of deficiency.
 
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Erial_Lion

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This right here is the heart of the problem with Gregg Berhalter as manager.

I'd think that criticizing that statement is reading too much into it...I'd read that as he wants him to play within himself and not do too much. It's as if Joe said "I don't need Lavar to have 5 sacks tomorrow, I need him to play his role within our defense" (which was an issue that he had).
 

CyphaPSU

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I'd think that criticizing that statement is reading too much into it...I'd read that as he wants him to play within himself and not do too much. It's as if Joe said "I don't need Lavar to have 5 sacks tomorrow, I need him to play his role within our defense" (which was an issue that he had).
It's not simply the statement in and of itself, and it certainly has nothing to do with the hyperbole of five goals. The problem, as I see it and as I have expressed earlier in this thread, is that Berhalter is entirely convinced of a particular way to play—a particular system if you will—and that may not be the best approach for a national team setup. As others have pointed out, Gregg's philosophy is something that has a better chance to work at the club level, where one has the ability to buy new players from the outside to fit said system and the time to train them up, than it does at the national team level in which one lacks the same kind of freedom for roster building. With a national team, you must quickly find a way to maximize the best talent available in the pool. Right now, we seem settled with a set of players who fit profiles within a system. In the two key areas of thinner talent and depth within the pool (center backs and strikers), the system player profile has won out. That leaves us with center backs who are turnover risks with their distribution, and strikers who have either not been in great form or have not demonstrated the ability to finish consistently at this level. It's a bonus to have your strikers work hard to press and to make diagonal runs that can open space in the attack, but ultimately you need someone you can rely on to grab a goal when given just a few chances (because this team's xG is probably going to be low at the WC).
 

Erial_Lion

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It's not simply the statement in and of itself, and it certainly has nothing to do with the hyperbole of five goals. The problem, as I see it and as I have expressed earlier in this thread, is that Berhalter is entirely convinced of a particular way to play—a particular system if you will—and that may not be the best approach for a national team setup. As others have pointed out, Gregg's philosophy is something that has a better chance to work at the club level, where one has the ability to buy new players from the outside to fit said system and the time to train them up, than it does at the national team level in which one lacks the same kind of freedom for roster building. With a national team, you must quickly find a way to maximize the best talent available in the pool. Right now, we seem settled with a set of players who fit profiles within a system. In the two key areas of thinner talent and depth within the pool (center backs and strikers), the system player profile has won out. That leaves us with center backs who are turnover risks with their distribution, and strikers who have either not been in great form or have not demonstrated the ability to finish consistently at this level. It's a bonus to have your strikers work hard to press and to make diagonal runs that can open space in the attack, but ultimately you need someone you can rely on to grab a goal when given just a few chances (because this team's xG is probably going to be low at the WC).
I don't disagree with aspects of this, but I also think that a) we've had a lot of success with this system over the past 24 months, b) I won't be at all surprised if Pefok is in Qatar, and c) much like the "backup QB" syndrome, people are overrating the guys that aren't on the squad today.

When I read comments like "Berhalter is trash. People will say, “but he won games and got us qualified”...What really happened is he took the most talented US team ever and had them barely qualify.", I find it to be complete BS. We've got the youngest team we've ever put on the field at this level, and yet even with the ridiculous number of injuries that we've faced, we've played our way up to 14th in the World, qualified without too much stress and went into the final day knowing we'd all but locked it up, won the big competition that we cared about last year (the Nations League against a full strength Mexico side), and won the Gold Cup with our B team (and B might be generous). Things are heading down a pretty good track at the moment from what I see.

I mean, if Berhalter is holding us back so badly, what would have been the realistic expectation for this group over the past two years with a different coach?
 

LaJollaCreek

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I don't disagree with aspects of this, but I also think that a) we've had a lot of success with this system over the past 24 months, b) I won't be at all surprised if Pefok is in Qatar, and c) much like the "backup QB" syndrome, people are overrating the guys that aren't on the squad today.

When I read comments like "Berhalter is trash. People will say, “but he won games and got us qualified”...What really happened is he took the most talented US team ever and had them barely qualify.", I find it to be complete BS. We've got the youngest team we've ever put on the field at this level, and yet even with the ridiculous number of injuries that we've faced, we've played our way up to 14th in the World, qualified without too much stress and went into the final day knowing we'd all but locked it up, won the big competition that we cared about last year (the Nations League against a full strength Mexico side), and won the Gold Cup with our B team (and B might be generous). Things are heading down a pretty good track at the moment from what I see.

I mean, if Berhalter is holding us back so badly, what would have been the realistic expectation for this group over the past two years with a different coach?

Berhalter has to be a bit more flexible and the match against Japan highlighted that. That being said, he beat El Tri three straight time, won 2 trophies, and did get the team into the World Cup. I'm with you on the Pepi call up as it doesn't mean he has a spot secured and it won't be a surprise if Pefok is there in November or even Sargent if he keeps producing. Yes this is probably the youngest and most talented team the US has had, but the US is still pretty far off from the rest of the world's best. People acting like Carter Vickers is some huge leap up from Zimmerman? If anyone thinks Carter Vickers puts the US defense over the top with or without Berhalter....they're nuts or die hard Celtic fans because the Spurs sent him there for a reason if we want to use that same logic we applied to Pepi.

PSU is lacking true class in certain areas and CB is certainly one of those areas. I love to follow this young team, but some people need an absolute reality check....they will still be lucky to get out of the group stage in the next WC no matter who is coaching. What we consider our best world class players in the US on bigger European clubs are basically role players on most of those clubs. They aren't dominating the EPL, Serie A, or any major club. That is the reality of the situation, but it is a step up from where the US has been and most of them are still under 23 years of age so the future will be brighter. Never mind Berhalter is the coach for this WC so crying about it is a complete and utter waste of time at this moment. I'm enjoying watch our nation grow and start to really make an impact in Europe, but some people need to really take a look at the bigger picture as to where the US is really at right now.
 
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