We are incredibly defended!

[MiloTalon13]

The play there was to corners. Corners cutting to the basket. The down low defender covered the middle and the corner. He picked up Cliff on the roll. The corner was wide open. These guys need to know to go to the basket w/o the ball. Cliff never looked for ball on roll.

But it was either to cliff or corners. If they just moved the ball there were lots of layups to be had. It wasnt a great defense but doesnt have to be when the corners possess zero playmaking ability and just stay in the corners.
PM is tall enough to hit the cutters to the hoop.

When they doubled ball screens, they have a 6'9" to 7'0" guy running at the ball handler with hands either on the ball handler or up - it is difficult to make a pass to a corner against that. I agree that is what's open, the defense leaves that open for a reason, it's a tough pass to make.

On those aggressive doubles on the ball screen, two good options are for the screener to leave early and get the ball in the middle of the court and have a quick opportunity to play 4v3 (I love watching Draymond Green in this role) Cliff can't do this. Another solid option for the aggressive double off the ball screen is pick and pop, that's a much easier pass to make for the doubled player - nobody wants to see Cliff pick and pop.

If we're going to focus on ball screens so much, I'd love to see Cam set some of them. He could be good in the middle of the court or pick and pop.

 

[greenknight]

The 2 easiest guys on the court to defend are AH & OP. They both are soft, OP 100% 1 dimension and AH goes up soft every single time when he does go to hoop. As a defender I would hate covering them 2 guys as you would not be involved in the game. All you are doing is sitting on 3's. If you are sitting on them your taken out on defensive RB's and your not doing a whole lot of moving your feet. Didnt realize how much Mag brought until he was gone. He made D's work

 

[DHajekRC84]

Couple of things.... the scouting report is to get out on our guards and pressure them, because they aren't penetrating ball handlers who can punish defenses for extending well beyond the arc. We are more easily disrupted because we don't have multi-dimensional scorers who can exploit you if you sell out against one aspect of their game.

I don't exactly disagree with Zap but you are SO RIGHT on this. Last night I just watched our offense back further and further away from the 3 point line by the other team's guarding our guards. It was horrible to watch.

Where I agree is that we don't exactly coach a system that helps address our weaknesses. I watched NW move and pass, move and pass all night. They didn't dribble mindlessly and didn't put the ball on the floor until they needed to. Most of the time our guys get the ball, immediately dribble three times, pick it up and get stuck then double teamed and then a mess.

 

[greenknight]

I see no lack of effort for the most part anywhere.
Pike has created a culture where that isn’t the case…imo.
As I said free throws are we result of an incompetent offense that leads directly to no confidence.
No confidence and pressure because we can’t make field goals is why we’re struggling at the line

Effort is there they do not quit

 

[MiloTalon13]

Where I agree is that we don't exactly coach a system that helps address our weaknesses. I watched NW move and pass, move and pass all night. They didn't dribble mindlessly and didn't put the ball on the floor until they needed to. Most of the time our guys get the ball, immediately dribble three times, pick it up and get stuck then double teamed and then a mess.

Just like I'm sure Cliff, Caleb, SImpson etc work on being better 3 point shooters, I'm sure the coaches work on getting players to catch the ball, make a read and move the ball quickly.
Just like becoming a good 3-point shooter, It's not that easy.

Frustrating to watch though, because it looks easy to fans, especially when it seems like all our opponents do those things better than we do.

 

[DHajekRC84]

I will say this. We have pretty much everyone in this thread nailing the issues with a couple of different reasons and approaches as to why. But this offense has been bad for years and the constant has been the HC. You all aren't really disagreeing and its a REALLY BAD JOB IMO that we can all see this and he isn't willing to address it. Either is getting the players who have offensive ability to do it themselves or changing your system to address your weaknesses.

Now having said that I am certainly aware that he is bring in some guys that HOPEFULLY will. But I'm not banking on true frosh to come in and fix things day one and I still think our sets need an overhaul.

 

[Shell21]

It doesn't have to be rocket science. If something is working like a ball screen and roll and replace and the D is struggling to stop it, keep running it. However just ball and player movement like above is necessary for our team who doesn't have a lot of creators. There isn't a lot of complicated actions in this set but the players are constantly moving and the ball moves quickly from side to side. How many times have we seen this recently with us? Guys are cutting backdoor, we see multiple ball screens after the ball is swung, we see a ball screen into a pindown, a few ball screen and slips to the basket. Again, not complicated stuff but when you have to defend 2 or 3 different actions in a row with constant player movement, its tough on the d and will create looks. The players still have to make the looks as we know, but this is more of what our offense should look like at times.

 

[greenknight]

There are so many problems everywhere; Cliff cannot get position last night was a perfect example there was one play I was watching where Cliff had somewhat decent position and Nicholson literally pushed him 5 feet out from where he set up; there are so many issues with just Cliff; he has very low BBall IQ cannot get position because he is not strong and when he does have position and doesn't get double teamed he has zero moves and of course we all know if it is not a dunk has very poor touch on his shot
second when he does get double teamed he is completely lost as twice last night he had the ball stolen it may have been more not 100% his fault as players have to cut and move when he is doubled but he is also an awful passer this is the main aspect of our offense and it is not good don't have time to go into the rest of the offense and this has nothing to do with athleticism we don't have anyone who can shoot consistently except Cam and you run an offense where he gets only 5 shots that is not acceptable

Cliffs problem I've been s aying it since his HS days weak hands & weak base with little basketball acumen. He works extremely hard but it's tough to overcome weak hands & weak base & no natural basketball instincts Hes not nor will he ever be a post up player. He can be a very special player if you utilize him the right way...getting him going down hill tonthe basket for layups & dunks. That's what he did the last couple years..... but Pike would be doing him a disservice by not putting him in position to expand his game. Hes 6'11 and wants to play pro ball. Needs post time to get there

 

[DHajekRC84]

Just like I'm sure Cliff, Caleb, SImpson etc work on being better 3 point shooters, I'm sure the coaches work on getting players to catch the ball, make a read and move the ball quickly.
Just like becoming a good 3-point shooter, It's not that easy.

Frustrating to watch though, because it looks easy to fans, especially when it seems like all our opponents do those things better than we do.

Well I guess some do it A LOT better than others. First thing NW does is warm-ups is the three player pass, move, to shoot layup drills. Then they have individual guard on Guard dribbling/defending drills.

Rutgers comes out dunking then shooting.

 

[DHajekRC84]

It doesn't have to be rocket science. If something is working like a ball screen and roll and replace and the D is struggling to stop it, keep running it. However just ball and player movement like above is necessary for our team who doesn't have a lot of creators. There isn't a lot of complicated actions in this set but the players are constantly moving and the ball moves quickly from side to side. How many times have we seen this recently with us? Guys are cutting backdoor, we see multiple ball screens after the ball is swung, we see a ball screen into a pindown, a few ball screen and slips to the basket. Again, not complicated stuff but when you have to defend 2 or 3 different actions in a row with constant player movement, its tough on the d and will create looks. The players still have to make the looks as we know, but this is more of what our offense should look like at times.

Nice example. The only critique in that video is that the other team isn't exactly playing tight defense. But the concept, yes.

 

[RUChoppin]

I will say this. We have pretty much everyone in this thread nailing the issues with a couple of different reasons and approaches as to why. But this offense has been bad for years and the constant has been the HC. You all aren't really disagreeing and its a REALLY BAD JOB IMO that we can all see this and he isn't willing to address it. Either is getting the players who have offensive ability to do it themselves or changing your system to address your weaknesses.

Now having said that I am certainly aware that he is bring in some guys that HOPEFULLY will. But I'm not banking on true frosh to come in and fix things day one and I still think our sets need an overhaul.

The depth problem has been there for a while but does look to be brighter on the horizon.

 

[DHajekRC84]

Just like I'm sure Cliff, Caleb, SImpson etc work on being better 3 point shooters,

PS. If THIS is what coach is working on with these three guys it is a waste of time. He should be working on the other things we need from them right now. The game plan shouldn't be them jacking up threes.

Cliff's finishes down low, Caleb's penetration and mid-range, Simpson's decision making. oh and FOUL SHOOTING< FOUL SHOOTING< AND MORE FOUL SHOOTING.

 

[greenknight]

When they doubled ball screens, they have a 6'9" to 7'0" guy running at the ball handler with hands either on the ball handler or up - it is difficult to make a pass to a corner against that. I agree that is what's open, the defense leaves that open for a reason, it's a tough pass to make.

On those aggressive doubles on the ball screen, two good options are for the screener to leave early and get the ball in the middle of the court and have a quick opportunity to play 4v3 (I love watching Draymond Green in this role) Cliff can't do this. Another solid option for the aggressive double off the ball screen is pick and pop, that's a much easier pass to make for the doubled player - nobody wants to see Cliff pick and pop.

If we're going to focus on ball screens so much, I'd love to see Cam set some of them. He could be good in the middle of the court or pick and pop.

Dont disagree totally because I think cliff could have got lob on the roll at about the foul line always look opposite corner. And the guys need to CUT w/o the ball. They did not play a tight trap plenty of space to split defenders. Any time you dribble into a trap you have an opportunity to split defender or sidestepp dribble back to gain space and one move blow by or pass. The passing was there for the corners, CO rolling and corners cutting to the hoop. As a ball receiver you never stand there for the ball you always ho meet it. The ball handlee needs to throw to spot andcreceiver needs tongonget it

 

[RU89]

We are well defended because we are easy to defend.

Exactly!

 

[MiloTalon13]

It doesn't have to be rocket science. If something is working like a ball screen and roll and replace and the D is struggling to stop it, keep running it. However just ball and player movement like above is necessary for our team who doesn't have a lot of creators. There isn't a lot of complicated actions in this set but the players are constantly moving and the ball moves quickly from side to side. How many times have we seen this recently with us? Guys are cutting backdoor, we see multiple ball screens after the ball is swung, we see a ball screen into a pindown, a few ball screen and slips to the basket. Again, not complicated stuff but when you have to defend 2 or 3 different actions in a row with constant player movement, its tough on the d and will create looks. The players still have to make the looks as we know, but this is more of what our offense should look like at times.

In that clip, St John's defense is in a different world than Northwestern's last night.
Drop coverage on ball screens, physicality level 2 maybe on a scale of 1-10. Guys dribble the ball wherever they want to go.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Well I guess some do it A LOT better than others. First thing NW does is warm-ups is the three player pass, move, to shoot layup drills. Then they have individual guard on Guard dribbling/defending drills.

Rutgers comes out dunking then shooting.

It is sad/funny to see Caleb staying out on the court shooting 3's after his teammates go into the locker room.
Just a few more reps and he might have a good shooting game.

 

[Shell21]

In that clip, St John's defense is in a different world than Northwestern's last night.
Drop coverage on ball screens, physicality level 2 maybe on a scale of 1-10. Guys dribble the ball wherever they want to go.

this is true; I get that, but this is just one example. The more actions you run, especially in succession and while having player movement, the harder you are to guard. Also you wear down the defense too.

 

[MiloTalon13]

this is true; I get that, but this is just one example. The more actions you run, especially in succession and while having player movement, the harder you are to guard. Also you wear down the defense too.

I agree we seemed to do the same thing over and over again last night - middle of court ball screen and it almost never worked.
If I was a reporter, that would be my first question - why so many high middle ball screens with Cliff, they seemed to have that figured out, what was plan B?
It didn't seem like there was one - maybe there is a reason for that?

 

[Ru-baby]

Cliff gets double teamed down low and has nowhere to go with the ball, there’s no pass for him to make because we have no one in position to receive a pass, it makes Cliff and all our players look far worse than they really are.

Disagree that the double issues are others cause. The double issues are on Cliff. Big Cliff proponent, but there are some significant issues to address with his game, and this is a current major one.

Regarding the double team issues: Teams are now doubling him almost always when he receives the ball because it works. The issues: he (1) retreats when the double comes taking himself to corners or more difficult passing lanes (2) Doesnt quickly pass out of the double but holds the ball increasing the pressure (3) gets small instead of big making passing lanes less available (4) more than half the time telegraphs a pass and/or gets a pass blocked or throws it to an uncatchable area/location. (5) Never seems to attack the hoop when pressure is coming but lets it arrive.

This double Cliff issue has contributed to the stalled offense significantly, and has been getting worse. Staff needs to tell him to pass out of the double quicker or attack it. Retreating, getting small and looking straight at receiver has been a nightmare.

Cliff's hands issue isn't a coaching thing-it's just his skill set. The crossing of the feet on D and positioning is a coaching/teaching thing. He would greatly benefit from big man training and could be a monster with some skill acquisition and bball IQ development to go with the amazing atheticism (although his burst and spring have certainly receded as the season has gone on). Seems like last off season the 3 ball was his focus as opposed to paint moves and paint positioning/knowledge. This off season he could make himself a possible nba candiate (dont think he is now) by working on these things.

 

[DHajekRC84]

It is sad/funny to see Caleb staying out on the court shooting 3's after his teammates go into the locker room.
Just a few more reps and he might have a good shooting game.

Totally different shot technique. Not working. Back or somebody coaching him to improve it for NBA chance..didn't work if so.
He had a nice high release last year and now this "from the chest" thing..

But he did play his A$$ off again yesterday. 6 steals! And rebounded too. 8 (vs. Cliff's 6)

 

[jOmega]

There’s a reason our players seem lost with no one to receive a pass

This exactly! When Cliff gets the ball in the post, everyone just stands and watches. With the defense focused on Cliff, we should be cutting across the lane looking for passes from him. Unfortunately he has a hard time delivering good passes. I love Cliff but he has weak fundamental basketball skills that need to improve. He doesn't have the skill to score with any consistency with his back to the basket. but when the defense shows the double team coming, he needs to hit the cutters. Problem is everyone else just watches.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Totally different shot technique. Not working. Back or somebody coaching him to improve it for NBA chance..didn't work if so.
He had a nice high release last year and now this "from the chest" thing..

But he did play his A$$ off again yesterday. 6 steals! And rebounded too. 8 (vs. Cliff's 6)

and don't forget that diving play for a loose ball
He's a warrior, he's a bad offensive player, but he gives it everything he's got for sure

 

[goru7]

You know why Mag was so valuable?? He moved a ton without the ball. Those double teams on Cliff created another spot to pass to because Mag would flash into the paint creating another outlet to pass to. Now, all we get is 2 guards standing outside the 3pt line waiting for the pass while being completed pasted by the defense as they know they will not move. How can you NOT defend this??

Question is this coaching or execution?

Go back and watch the tape. Hyatt stands on the exact opposite 3pt line from where Cliff is without moving an inch. Now you have 5 on 4 on one side of the ball. The minute I see a backdoor pass from this team is the minute I know we will turn things around. Every team is defending us up close bc we dribble way too much and become stagnant on offense. It is NOT for a lack of offensive sets but due to players IMO

This is a great post especially after last night. NW scouted us very well. Their philosophy is to double the post and rotate. Pike knew this going in. Why , like when MAG played , didn’t we have Hyatt or Caleb cutting down the lane immediately ? Cliff has a tremendous wing span. Why hasn’t he been told to bring the ball with 1 hand over his head as high as possible to pass out of double team? They would have to foul him to get it. He has turned the ball over 1/2 times after every hard double team in multiple games.

Also , Audige jumped the screens and took Cam away when we tried to set him up with a Cliff screen 3-4 times . Cam unfortunately is not a catch and shoot 3 point shooter ( our luck ) but he needs to take a dribble to get confident to release the ball. This is something he has to correct for next year. He has to become catch and shoot as he has turned down too many looks where he was open for a split second when he should have let it go. When teams know your sets and blow everything up, you have to go back door with better spacing , cut off the ball non stop and not stand as instructed during the normal play call and you have to crash the glass. We did nothing to counteract NW’s defense. Unfortunately that is on Pike. He cannot continue to run things that the defense is taking away and has to make the adjustment.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

So we have no chance to beat Michigan is what you’re saying

Michigan is a winnable game if RU attacks their smaller guards and scores and Cliff does a good job against Dickinson. I would rather play Michigan, instead of Iowa, Nebraska or even Penn State.

I know fans are scared of their own shadows, but someone has to take the ball to the basket and stop being afraid to take shots. Fans have written this team off at least 5 separate times already.

If Paul Mulcahy goes 38 minutes without a basket made, is RU going to win the game?? Not going to happen.

Simpson playing 26 to 28 minutes under the assumption that the goal is to actually win and face Purdue has to be the mindset.

 

[zappaa]

Michigan is a winnable game if RU attacks their smaller guards and scores and Cliff does a good job against Dickinson. I would rather play Michigan, instead of Iowa, Nebraska or even Penn State.

I know fans are scared of their own shadows, but someone has to take the ball to the basket and stop being afraid to take shots. Fans have written this team off at least 5 separate times already.

If Paul Mulcahy goes 38 minutes without a basket made, is RU going to win the game?? Not going to happen.

Simpson playing 26 to 28 minutes under the assumption that the goal is to actually win and face Purdue has to be the mindset.

Why you talking about fans for gods sake.
I love the way you say take the ball to the basket?
We have numerous guys try it every game, run head long into basket protectors and get the hell stuffed out of them.
Fans being afraid is if that’s a Friggen issue

 

[DHajekRC84]

and don't forget that diving play for a loose ball
He's a warrior, he's a bad offensive player, but he gives it everything he's got for sure

I don't think he's a bad offensive player at all. I'm not saying he's great but he can be solid when playing in his space. Same for the entire team and why I find it frustrating.

Caleb's effort last night under the circumstances is either a total BS release on his condition or just a selfless effort boosted by ESPNs award. And being senior night.

Since he was grounded a few games prior and has history of back issues I choose the latter. I gained even more respect for him yesterday.

 

[rudad02]

The foul line lack of success is the culmination of a complete collapse and failure of the offense.
It’s called lack of confidence in game situations and it’s contagious

Really like Pike, but a lot of this is on Pike & the other coaches. As you said their job is to put these kids in positions to succeed.
These guys didn't all of a sudden forget how to play basketball. Their lack of success has caused a complete lack of confidence. Hard to overstate the importance of confidence. It allows you & a team to play loose. And when you're loose you play quicker, more instinctively, your stroke is smother, you execute better, & you're more successful.

 

[jerseybird]

He’s friggen enveloped by defenders

Catch & pass, or catch, pivot & shoot.

 

[Caliknight]

Cliffs problem I've been s aying it since his HS days weak hands & weak base with little basketball acumen. He works extremely hard but it's tough to overcome weak hands & weak base & no natural basketball instincts Hes not nor will he ever be a post up player. He can be a very special player if you utilize him the right way...getting him going down hill tonthe basket for layups & dunks. That's what he did the last couple years..... but Pike would be doing him a disservice by not putting him in position to expand his game. Hes 6'11 and wants to play pro ball. Needs post time to get there

The NBA has little value for post games. 6'11 guys are on the perimeter. Cliff can't shoot.

He can make money playing pro hoops but it's not going to be in the NBA.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

PS. If THIS is what coach is working on with these three guys it is a waste of time. He should be working on the other things we need from them right now. The game plan shouldn't be them jacking up threes.

Cliff's finishes down low, Caleb's penetration and mid-range, Simpson's decision making. oh and FOUL SHOOTING< FOUL SHOOTING< AND MORE FOUL SHOOTING.

In the offseason, wasn't there articles about how Reiber was about to become a 3-point shooting secret weapon? I'm starting to think these guys are coaching themselves on offense (ie, tons of 3 pointers in practice, zero foul shots).

 

[zappaa]

Catch & pass, or catch, pivot & shoot.

Ok

 

[OriginalKnight]

Please don’t come at me with all due respect. I am well aware of what is going on with the team. You state that the team was well defended. That we agree on. That was not the only problem. My point is that has little to do with going after loose balls, playing our tough D, hitting FTs.

Bird you really don’t understand basketball.

 

[RUChoppin]

Ok

One of the challenges Omoruyi has is that he sometimes takes too long in the post and gives the defense time to decide what they're going to do to defend him. The double comes over, and then he takes too long to get rid of the ball.

He should start his move a bit sooner and give the ball up immediately when he feels the double coming - and his teammates have to help him out by being in a position to receive that pass.

 

[RuBird]

Bird you really don’t understand basketball.

You continue to show your ignorance and know very little about me. Caleb has already said they are still going thru “Mental Stuff”

 

[fluoxetine]

Missing FTs is not about effort.

 

[richthedentist]

Cliffs problem I've been s aying it since his HS days weak hands & weak base with little basketball acumen. He works extremely hard but it's tough to overcome weak hands & weak base & no natural basketball instincts Hes not nor will he ever be a post up player. He can be a very special player if you utilize him the right way...getting him going down hill tonthe basket for layups & dunks. That's what he did the last couple years..... but Pike would be doing him a disservice by not putting him in position to expand his game. Hes 6'11 and wants to play pro ball. Needs post time to get there

You're not kidding about the weak part there was one possession where he had position at the side of the key in the first half and Nicholson came and literally pushed him out 5 feet

 

[richthedentist]

One of the challenges Omoruyi has is that he sometimes takes too long in the post and gives the defense time to decide what they're going to do to defend him. The double comes over, and then he takes too long to get rid of the ball.

He should start his move a bit sooner and give the ball up immediately when he feels the double coming - and his teammates have to help him out by being in a position to receive that pass.

He has no post moves and also is a terrible passer as much as he has done for us and how gifted he is athletically he just has so many short comings; I hope he can play somewhere overseas because there is no chance he ever plays in the NBA; I don't even think he sniffs the G league

 

[zappaa]

Missing FTs is not about effort.

Actually it’s the opposite, you try to hard.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

These kids are strong D1 athletes, I beg to disagree.
Very few could perform under the constant duress and pressure they face.
They are not in position to succeed and have no idea how to use 2nd or 3rd options, it’s obvious.

Your excuse is WAY to easy to use

I think maybe we put so much effort into defense.. for the long season.. that players take breaks on offense. That would explain little moving without teh ball.. not swinging the ball side to side.. few, if any, set plays to get guys often.

We have an offensive assistant coach.. right? As much as everyone likes the guy.. might be time to find someone else.

 

[Kbee3]

I think maybe we put so much effort into defense.. for the long season.. that players take breaks on offense. That would explain little moving without teh ball.. not swinging the ball side to side.. few, if any, set plays to get guys often.

We have an offensive assistant coach.. right? As much as everyone likes the guy.. might be time to find someone else.

Please tell me our offensive assistant coach isn't named Gleeson.