We need to come to grips with our offense

[SPMT]

I believe Mullen dictates the bend but don't break philosophy on defense as well. He's mentioned before how we give up yards but we don't give up big plays. That was earlier this year before we played anyone. He was clearly in favor of it then.

Off: We have the best throwing qb we have ever had at State. Let's use his *** and put him in the best position to win.

Everybody loves the backup qb. They are usually backing up and learning for a reason.

 

[engie]

Still not convinced Les gets to stay, at least not in his current capacity. Losing him could hurt our recruiting a bit -- as we are still chasing QBs. I'll choose to believe that's the explanation at this time. I'm telling you, there have GOT to be offensive changes made -- and I won't go beyond that.

I'm just saying...
Louisiana-Lafayette stats: 09, 10 - 11, 12. 2011 and 2012 are Hud's first 2 years there.
Scoring O: 93, 92 - 32, 25
Passing O: 49, 37 - 29, 42
Rush O: 72, 110 - 88, 35
Total O: 76, 81 - 51, 29

And they had very little trouble scoring and moving the ball on Florida's vaunted defense.

 

[diddog]

Mullen was brought in for offense

that was said by Greg Byrne. Like Coach 34 said, he is not going to fire himself. Ever since he arrived, Mullen has generally been much harder on the defensive coaches than the offensive coaches - because it is his offense.
The offense has been better than Croom's for sure. The defense has been worse for sure numerically. Some of that is due to the fact that MSU runs more no huddle and gets off more plays than Croom's offense did.
The big issue guys is that after killer recruiting classes in 2008 and 2009, in Mullen's first two years, recruiting took a big step backward. We are paying the price for those classes and have been living off of Croom's recruits for success. Our OL recruiting has been atrocious. Our best two OL are still Croom recruits - Jackson and Smith.

 

[Coach34]

Off: We have the best throwing qb we have ever had at State. Let's use his *** and put him in the best position to win.

Everybody loves the backup qb. They are usually backing up and learning for a reason.

Nobody is debating that- the problem though is that it's not making the offense any better. And that is what some of us are concerned about.

 

[Coach 57]

Offense sucks *** when you consider results against top teams. We were a half ***, wannabe pro-style offense, and we used a 190 lbs. scatback when we needed a 220 lbs. SEC back. We need to run power football. Run it out of the shotgun but put a big 17ing back in there to do it and then play action off his ***. TR will kill doing that.

Not true. You don't need a 220lb RB as you said. We actually HAD the exact weapons to be a VERY dangerous offense IF we used the "air-raid"! We have a great pass catching RB in LdP, we HAD a very good slot WR in Bump, guys that run routes well with good hands like Ceto and Smith and a versatile guy like Tubby to move around to get mismatches on. Two things our offense needed this yr to have a BREAKOUT season (Tyler could've had close to 4k in my opinion) is 1.) Faster tempo and 2.) The biggest to me ROUTE COMBINATIONS. When a team is playing man press.....it's because they don't respect your speed/ability to create separation....the best way to combat that is trips it out and run route combo to FORCE the separation and FORCE the saftey to guess the incorrect route. You don't have to have size or speed to do this, just guys that take running routes seriously and have it incorporated in your system. We had the first....not the latter. Routes like smash, stick, stop and outs RAN TOGETHER WELL can and (in our case) WILL get that separation!

 

[SwingAway]

The problem with the offense was the idiots coming up with the scheme. I've bitched all year about how we refuse I utilize our personnel. Play calling and scheme was pathetic. Adjustments in game were pathetic. Koenning has to, and according to C34 will, be out. Offense is Mullens baby and he better damn well take care of it. Either Dak or TR pick a guy right now and work spring and summer on plays and schemes that fit. If its TR then Dak will learn it and have his package. If its Dak then Mullen does his thing

 

[SPMT]

Nobody is debating that- the problem though is that it's not making the offense any better. And that is what some of us are concerned about.

My observations on that, and you've said the same but not in this manner:

1. Mullen has some of what we hated about Croom - an arrogance and resistance to adapting, changing, and admitting where he may be wrong.

2. I am fearing he is what i read he was in the book about Urban, Mullen is just not a good recruiter and he only has a few good ones on staff.

 

[Coach 57]

Every good coach is an ego maniac.....EVERY good coach even the nice ones like Dungy. It's what separates good ones from mediocre ones. But a coach that doesn't adapt.....is scheduled to fail!

 

[FirstPoetsThenSunDoggy]

Don't leave out the Johnnie Cooks' era. 1980-81 I think.

 

[121Josey]

If you DID enjoy our offense this year, you are not a true State fan.

Give them a pass? You stats freaks need to get over yourself. I've obviously been watching this God-forsaken indian-cursed program longer than some of you could beat your meat. If you DID NOT enjoy our offense last year, then you aren't a true State fan.

And if you are seriously going to try and use stats for an argument that MSU's defense wasn't the problem, then you just proved that stats are for half-brains.

We couldn't convert a third-down to save our lives. We were notorious for 3-n-outs last year.

 

[121Josey]

Why then, did we fire the DEFENSIVE coordinator.

Last time I checked, we didn't FIRE the defensive coordinator. He was always a CO-defensive coordinator.

 

[thatsbaseball]

It`s just hard for Mullen to coach and sulk at the same time

 

[57stratdawg]

Been saying this for months even posted links on the types of schemes we need to incorporate on offense in order for Tyler to be better on 3rd down and still we're going on about this? We need "AIR-RAID/RUN & SHOOT" or a pro set for Tyler to TRUELY take us WHERE WE NEED TO BE. I'm like engie and C34, we can't be successful with Les as our OC and Tyler at QB. Take your pick one is going to have to go or we'll suffer another disposition like this past season until Tyler graduates. Plain and simple both can't stay and us be where we need to be for our defense to help us. We in fact ARE a finesse football team but we CAN be finesse and still be successful on offense. We'll just need either of those two schemes to get us over the hump. The main problem with this season is 3rd down efficiency KILLED us be we knew it was going to drop. If you didn't you're fooling yourself. Offensive production is based on percentages. There is a higher percentage of a play going south if you pass the ball Vs if you run the ball. Dropped balls, bad snaps, batted passes at the line of scrimmage, INTs, deflected passes by the DB/LB, missed block causes a sack, qb & wr not on the same page presnap, incorrect diagnoses of coverage by qb..etc etc. This is why the read option/zone read qb's are changing the game. Guys like Dak need REPS to get a flow with the RBs. When you run this the offense is actually EASIER to coach from a qb perspective. All he does is read an unblocked DE in the run, play fake off of the dive action for your primary read. If the primary read isn't there then you have 3 quicker options. Secondary if it's covered you have the dump off or the keep. But none of this means a hill of beans if we continue to keep Tyler AND Les together.

I don't agree with the idea that Russell and Keoning can't be successful. Russell is Keonings ideal QB, not Millen's. the two have butted heads over this in the past.

 

[SwingAway]

I don't agree with the idea that Russell and Keoning can't be successful. Russell is Keonings ideal QB, not Millen's. the two have butted heads over this in the past.

If Koenning was calling plays, which he was, then he is Woody McCorvey to me. Unacceptable. He had no clue as to what was going on. I agree with Engie let's go get Troy's guy. At least he knows what a 17ing crossing route and slant looks like.

 

[coach66]

/\/\/\ This times 10, Mullen needs to grow up some and realize he still has

bosses and when they chew his *** out for the way he is treating some of
his employees he needs to correct the problem and move on instead of pouting
like a child, losing focus and letting things fall apart. We all have areas we need
to improve in and he needs to be open to improving himself. He has a lot of great
qualities but a few he needs to clean up as he likes to say. Time to move forward
and get back on track.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

You just proved your ignorance.....

An OL that hadn't fully matured? Are you 17ing kidding me? I could've sworn we started 2 second-year starters, 1 4th-year starter, 1 JUCO player, and 1 All-SEC 3rd- year starter. Then there's Justin Malone who looked VERY good as a 1st-year player.

So this is somehow good when you're playing in the SEC? That All-SEC guy hardly played. And when he did, we moved the ball MUCH better. The rest of that is not exactly ideal. And you're also talking about how playing Malone as a freshman HELPED us.

YOU got take YOUR meds, fella. That's the dumbest **** I've ever heard. But it is the trendy MSU thing to think right now. Sheep.

 

[Spidey.sixpack]

I have asserted all season that offense was the problem. Particularly in the second half of the season when the opposing defenses stiffened. Sure the defense gave up some points, but the only reason we weren't even in those games against A&M, Bama, and LSU was because of all the 3 and outs that the offense had and not even coming close to moving the ball. Lack of offense turned those games into blowouts, not a poor defense.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Everybody else comes with proof- you just spout retarded ********

An injury-riddled OL in 2011 that played 2 R-Fr linemen with both Russell and Relf getting hurt also was 84th in the nation. A healthy TR and a healthy OL in 2012 was 80th

2010 and 2012 are almost identical- except that we traded rushing TD's for passing TD's- and 2010 was much better on 3rd down

The offense is struggling Goat- 80th in the nation. You cant defend that

Please learn how to use statistics. There are so many 17ing variables there. You're trying to compare two different teams who played two different schedules and in two different years. Then you compare them to two different pools (2011 D-I & 2012 D-I). It tells you next to nothing.

Keep selling condoms, leave the stats to people who know what they are doing.

 

[War Machine Dawg]

I'll give you Malone toward your point, however, I was throwing him in for depth purposes.

And by the way, Gabe Jackson was the All-SEC starter, not Tobias. And he's been All-SEC for 2 seasons. He's also a likely NFL draft pick this season.

Last time I checked, an offensive line featuring 4 experienced starters, including 1 who is All-SEC, is a good line in this league. Oh by the way, Alabama is starting a freshman on their line, so maybe they haven't "fully matured" yet either?

 

[SheltonChoked]

^^^ This ^^


This is what I hope for for next year. Either a new coach in a system that has run these route concepts before, or Les/Dan learns them.. If so it will complement what Dan does with the dual threat read option. You can run a triple/Quadruple option off the zone read with a Stick route on the backside. (http://smartfootball.com/spread/quadruple-option-zone-read-with-multiple-pass-options)

 

[ckDOG]

What this guy says. Air Raid works.

Not true. You don't need a 220lb RB as you said. We actually HAD the exact weapons to be a VERY dangerous offense IF we used the "air-raid"! We have a great pass catching RB in LdP, we HAD a very good slot WR in Bump, guys that run routes well with good hands like Ceto and Smith and a versatile guy like Tubby to move around to get mismatches on. Two things our offense needed this yr to have a BREAKOUT season (Tyler could've had close to 4k in my opinion) is 1.) Faster tempo and 2.) The biggest to me ROUTE COMBINATIONS. When a team is playing man press.....it's because they don't respect your speed/ability to create separation....the best way to combat that is trips it out and run route combo to FORCE the separation and FORCE the saftey to guess the incorrect route. You don't have to have size or speed to do this, just guys that take running routes seriously and have it incorporated in your system. We had the first....not the latter. Routes like smash, stick, stop and outs RAN TOGETHER WELL can and (in our case) WILL get that separation!

Every coach in the Mumme/Leach tree is crapping out touchdowns like it's nobody's business. Their systems are proven and work well even with lower talent levels. Good job on our staff realizing that the only way that Tyler is going to be effective is with his arms and not legs. Bad job at designing a scheme that gives him a chance to succeed. Mullen doesn't have to bail on everything he's learned to this point, but whatever the hell it is we schemed this year was total garbage. Mullen either as to get back to what he knows and play Dak or start watching Baylor and West Virginia tape.

 

[SPMT]

You can't run a wannabe pro style offense with. 190 lbs back.

I wasnt referring to air raid philosophies. I was referring to pro style or half *** pro style from shotgun mostly in our case.

 

[SPMT]

Every good coach is an ego maniac.....EVERY good coach even the nice ones like Dungy. It's what separates good ones from mediocre ones. But a coach that doesn't adapt.....is scheduled to fail!

Ego and arrogant and hardheaded are different.

 

[fishwater99]

THIS.......

Every good coach is an ego maniac.....EVERY good coach even the nice ones like Dungy. It's what separates good ones from mediocre ones. But a coach that doesn't adapt.....is scheduled to fail!

Mullen is like the little kid trying to jam a square peg in a round hole, it's not going to work.
TR is not a spread QB and Dan refuses to run a pro-style offense with him.
TR will be our QB next year, get over it. Dak will not start.
Get ready for a 6-6 season...

 

[FISHDAWG]

Disagree. Diaz started the "bend, but don't break" philosophy. Outside of a few stats, the only difference is, we blitzed a lot under Manny. Not so much with Wison. The stats aren't as different as you would think, though. Look at this link:

http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/team/430/index.html

This year, we averaged right at 30 minutes in time of possession. In 2010, we averaged 31 minutes. We also gave up a good many total yards both years (2012- 5,036, 2010- 4,639) and teams had a respectable 3rd down conversion rate against us (2012- 42.08%, 2010- 37%). I'm not making these numbers up. The DIFFERENCE between Manny and Wilson was red-zone success...

This year, our opponents had 44 attempts in the red zone and scored 35 of those 44 attempts (80%). Opponents averaged 23.3 points per game. In 2010, out of 40 attempts in the red zone (only 4 fewer attempts than this year), teams scored only 29 times (65%). Opponents also averaged 19.8 points per game (with a MUCH tougher schedule).

The stats point to the difference between Manny and Wilson. Manny's defense gave up a lot of yards, gave up a lot of 3rd down conversions, and did not force as many punts as you would think. Those of you thinking Manny was some kind of defensive god can give it up, because there wasn't as big a difference as you would think. Manny defined the "bend, but don't break defense." Mullen talked about it when he hired Manny. The difference, I can't stress enough, was that Manny's defense gave up far fewer TOUCHDOWNS than Wilson's. In case you have forgotten, FGs = 3 points, TDs + a try = 7 points.

noticeable difference is Manny was much better at making in-game adjustments than Wilson ..... I only wished I could say something similiar about Koening

 

[Dawgzilla]

The defense is 54th in the Nation, and you think offense is "100% of the problem"??? You can argue the offense is in worse shape than the defense, that would be a reasonable conclusion, but to claim offense is the ONLY problem is just absurd.

I HATE Mullen's offense. I always have. I don't think it works unless you have Tim Tebow at QB, and even then it is a frustrating offense. But State's defense was an embarrassment this year.