like the football camps that the coaches put on for women so they can learn a little about the game. Yes, we suck. But the incessant amount of bitching would be cut in half if some folks understood that if you take ball four on a hit and run, the runner going to second is forced to second base. I have a feeling that a few here don't really understand what being forced to second means though. I remember back in the golden days of MSU baseball, announcers would mention our "knowledgable fan base". That seems to be another facet of MSU baseball that has died.