Two years in a row Roanoke area teams in the finals of 3a. Phoebus goes down to Blackburg at home and Hopewell gets killed by Staunton River. By the way Salem killed Blacksburg and Byrd handily beat Staunton River. Maybe this end of the State is not so bad after all.
What's the deal on 3a with Phoebus and Hopewell?
- Thread starter southbottomU
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Problem is Phoebus simply is not good enough offensively, as 3A has many teams that can score points. You can't always rely on your defense to shut out, or hold your opponent to single digits to get wins...especially with some of the offensive powerhouses 3A has at this point in the playoffs.
And SR is simply a machine offensively. Take a look at the numbers they have put up this year...and look at what they did to a solid Hopewell team today to see how good they are on the offensive side of the ball. In SR's defense, that game against Byrd was played right after a Hurricane(or Tropical Storm...or whatever it was). Byrd was helped out quite a bit as the field conditions slowed down SR more than any defense has come close to doing.
And SR is simply a machine offensively. Take a look at the numbers they have put up this year...and look at what they did to a solid Hopewell team today to see how good they are on the offensive side of the ball. In SR's defense, that game against Byrd was played right after a Hurricane(or Tropical Storm...or whatever it was). Byrd was helped out quite a bit as the field conditions slowed down SR more than any defense has come close to doing.
Even the Byrd defense? Byrd was far better up front... that holds true if the game is played in normal conditions.
I'm not taking away anything from Byrd...simply stating a fact that the field conditions slowed down that SR offense that game. Opinions will vary, and my opinion is if they played again in normal field conditions, they would have a much tougher time stopping that offense.
Again, not taking anything away from Byrd or their defense...but you can also say that SR may have the best offense in the state. They have rushed for over 6,000 yards this season. Aside from the Byrd game, their lowest point total this year was 41 points. Even with the Byrd game, where they scored only 6 points, they have averaged 53 points a game this season, and they have averaged 69 points the last 5 games. So again, not taking anything away from Byrd, but SR's offense is for real, as those numbers don't lie. And the fact that a team that averaged over 50 points a game scored only 6 in the aftermath of Hurricane on a sloppy field...I think it stands to reason that the conditions slowed them down a bit. But again, that's just my opinion.
Perhaps it would behoove them to learn other options for games like that then. If bad weather neutralizes you that much then there's something inherently wrong with your offense.
Hopewell was missing a couple of kids today. Like I alluded to the other day to PhoebusFan the Phantoms weren't that great. Defense was solid but their offense was too one dimensional and mistake prone and it showed digging them a 17-0 hole in the 1q
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Okay, I'm out...try to have educated conversations, and folks have to get salty. Over 6000 yards and averaging over 50 points a game, and there is something wrong with their offense...okay, whatever you say. For the record, my team ran a Wing-T, which means we hardly ever threw the ball...it was tough to stop, but not built well for coming back if we got down. I guess for some that could be looked at as having something inherently wrong with our offense...but we just happened to win 4 state titles in 6 years with that offense. And SR happens to be playing for a state title next week with that offense that has something inherently wrong with it. But what do I know.
Okay, I'm out...try to have educated conversations, and folks have to get salty. Over 6000 yards and averaging over 50 points a game, and there is something wrong with their offense...okay, whatever you say. For the record, my team ran a Wing-T, which means we hardly ever threw the ball...it was tough to stop, but not built well for coming back if we got down. I guess for some that could be looked at as having something inherently wrong with our offense...but we just happened to win 4 state titles in 6 years with that offense. And SR happens to be playing for a state title next week with that offense that has something inherently wrong with it. But what do I know.
If rain hits the ground and suddenly your offensive output drops 80% then something's wrong. Doesn't mean their O isn't good, it means it has flaws. Same deal with VT/UNC this year. One team scored 34, one team scored 3, both played in the same muck. UNC fans lovvvvvvvvved to tell you what would happen if it was played under dry conditions.
You seem hellbent on not taking away anything from Byrd but then ultimately saying the conditions mattered anyway. Forget SR's O, Byrd scored 26, what do you think happens when Bashem is running at them on a dry field?
SR could have named the score this game. Unless they were missing some NFL players, this game would still be a blowout.
EXACTLY...it means their offense didn't handle the elements well. If anyone thinks playing in adverse conditions doesn't affect the game play, you're deluding yourselves. We had a game in 85 in Orange where it was a deluge, and one end of the field was so flooded that you could have stocked it with fish(go look for it on YouTube as they have highlights of it)...no one can tell me that playing in that didn't affect the way the game was played. Byrd handled it well, SR didn't...which is why I said that if they didn't have those elements then Byrd would have had a harder time stopping them. And I've gone back and reread all my posts...and for the life of me, I just can't seem to find where i actually said that SR would have won that game against Byrd if it wasn't in the muck...I've been looking for it, but I just can't seem to find it. I just said it would have been tougher for Byrd, as IMO SR's offense wasn't itself in the elements. If you take that as an insult to Byrd...well, I guess that's on you.
For anyone wanting to see clips of our 'Mud Bowl'...go here:
For anyone wanting to see clips of our 'Mud Bowl'...go here:
I seriously doubted they could have named the score Hopewell wasn't some patsy. They just ran into a hot team and some missing kids. Bad recipe this time of the year.
I mean 55 points in a half tends to indicate exactly that. And they scored their first drive of the second half as well. Their D held well, too, I suspect the last 2-3 TDs were given up by the 2nd string as it was 62-12 at one point, I believe.
No team that gets to the semis is a patsy but this was a serious mismatch from the start.
I don't think anyone thinks it didn't effect the offense. Saying that did more to effect the offense than any defense might be a bit off. Byrd matches up so well with that offense and SR doesn't really have the type of plays to take advantage of where Byrd is weaker defensively.
What are your thoughts on Blacksburg - Staunton River? I actually think the Bruins' D might be able to get enough stops to stay in the game, because their O will present its own challenges for River.
Let me just say that i think Byrd is a really good football team...and Salem's tougest test to get to the finals. They lost twice to Salem this year by a grand total of 10 points...that's pretty good; not to mention that Salem was the only team to beat them this year. I think Byrd was one of the better 4A teams this year, and given SR is one of the better 3A teams...I don't think it's a knock on SR to say that they may have had a hard time against Byrd. Just like it wouldn't be a knock on Salem or Dinwiddie if they had a tough time playing the likes of some top 5A teams, like the Springers or Stone Bridge or Bird or Massaponax. I don't think classifications always parallel talent...and Salem or Bryd would wipe the floor with several 5A/6A teams, and how many teams would not have trouble playing Appomattox this year. They may only be 2A, but that team is stacked. Point being is Byrd is a good enough 4A school that they would maybe have an advantage against most 3A schools.
As for Balcksburg/SR...I give the advantage to SR, but if Blacksburg can score points and keep it close, they could end up having the advantage. Blacksburg has lost several games, and faced a bit of adversity, more than SR. I think Blacksburg has proven that they can handle a bit of adversity...we're not sure how well SR will respond if they end up having to face some adversity in this big of a game. Moving the ball and scoring points against the Phantoms defense is no small feat, so they have confidence. the question will simply be if they can get a few stops, or force a few mistakes by the SR offense. Honestly, if SR wins, I think it may not be close...but if it ends up being a really tight game, i think I may actually give the advantage to the Bruins.
As for Balcksburg/SR...I give the advantage to SR, but if Blacksburg can score points and keep it close, they could end up having the advantage. Blacksburg has lost several games, and faced a bit of adversity, more than SR. I think Blacksburg has proven that they can handle a bit of adversity...we're not sure how well SR will respond if they end up having to face some adversity in this big of a game. Moving the ball and scoring points against the Phantoms defense is no small feat, so they have confidence. the question will simply be if they can get a few stops, or force a few mistakes by the SR offense. Honestly, if SR wins, I think it may not be close...but if it ends up being a really tight game, i think I may actually give the advantage to the Bruins.
@southbottomU I would say that side of the state is better in 1A-2A-&-3A. The east side of the state doesn't have that many teams there. For example the only 3A teams in the Richmond area are Richmond City schools who can barley field a team.
I think 4A & 5A the east is stronger overall. Doesn't mean the east will waltz to a championship. There are PLENTY of STRONG teams in the west in 4A. Most schools in the east are 5A especially the Richmond area. For D6 I would say Northern Va is consistently the best. Maybe 757 if you throw in Oscar Smith and the whole beach district is basically 6A. Richmond only has about five 6A schools.
It wouldn't surprise me in the next few years if the west ON AVERAGE starting being stronger than the east just based on the amount of 4A schools in the west in semi urban areas.
I think 5A stays in the East just because we have about 50 5A schools.
I think you will find that whichever side has the most schools in a classification is generally going to be stronger from top to bottom.
Trust me those of us on the east-side know the west can play ball!
The only reason I put that post up is to push back on what I perceive as an Eastern bias. . I would hope that we could just talk about Virginia football, not regions of Virginia football.
I think you guys out West play the Eastern bias and superiority card to the fullest. Phoebus and Hopewell were two very flawed teams and what you will expect to get from the East region on a yearly basis in 3a because we just don't have that many teams. The other 3a teams like a James Monroe or Park View will lose to 7-3 and 6-4 3a teams from the bigger districts (PD, Central, Eastern) because they are battle tested in the regular season.
The problem lies in the playoffs when these teams have to go through three weeks of playing no one then they play a team from the West that is battle tested in the playoffs. The West has the advantage because by then these Eastern teams are drinking their own Kool-aid as you can see in the Phantoms the last two years. Phoebus and Hopewell are both good programs but they aren't state title worthy yet. The West will continue to dominate 3a because they have established programs that understand what's going on. Phoebus isn't Phoebus of old and I think the final deathblow was the 54-0 Harbor Park game in 2012.
Well, I think that's why 5A and 6A are designated North/South, and not Eadt/West. There are almost no 5A and 6A schools west of Richmond. For 5A, I think it's Orange Co., Albemarle, Halifax Co., and PH (Roanoke). In 6A, it's Franklin Co. That's it. 4A has a few more, but only three by the time you get to the Roanoke area (Byrd, Fleming, Salem), and only Pulaski Co. and Carroll Co. west of that.
Good points. I think part of the problem, from the East's perspective, might be that a lot of people have the perception that Phoebus is still the Phoebus of the late 2000's. Of course, they aren't, but those blue-and-gold colored glasses apparently are proving hard to remove, and are serving as a lens through which many fans view the region as a whole.
Honestly the Phoebus fans are the only ones still believing the hype. No one fears the Phantoms anymore. I saw where one of the fans compared Blacksburg to Gloucester that was disrespectful considering Gloucester hasn't been to the playoffs in forever yet the team you playing the state semifinals reminds you of them. Didn't understand why that was the comparison. Showed the lack of respect they showed for their opponent.
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Yeah, I saw that post, too. As you say, "Disrespect" was the word that immediately came to mind. That's okay. This morning, the person who posted that probably has a little better understanding of how Blacksburg compares to Gloucester.
I see it as this we are not very good in 3a Phoebus, Norcom, and Lakeland will benefit as their competition is Bay Rivers schools and other schools they should beat.
4a is LT and Lafayette will always be the favorites because we schedule hard and are battle tested and Lafayette is well coached and won't lose during the regular season. Everyone else will be chasing these two teams and someone might break through like a Heritage.
5a is very top heavy Hampton, Salem-VB, Indian River, and Norview are the favorites every year. The best thing to happen to them is going back to 4 regions next year because they couldn't win the East because the Richmond schools are very good in 5a that's their strength.
6a is the most competitive but at the end of the day with Chris going to Sullivan it's everyone chasing Oscar Smith. Grassfield is solid Woodside solid on the Pd but Smith is well coached and the kids just know how to win. They might come back to the pack a little next year since they are losing QB Shon Mitchell who has saved their tails this year.
From all this basically you can see our region is top heavy in most cases when it comes to playoff contenders but the regular seasons are grind as these teams know each other well and the kids have grown up with one another. There are schools a couple of miles apart and depending what side of the street you live on decides your school. East has a superiority complex because historically speaking the East has the most state titles. That's a fact. But there are flaws especially in 3a and 5a
4a is LT and Lafayette will always be the favorites because we schedule hard and are battle tested and Lafayette is well coached and won't lose during the regular season. Everyone else will be chasing these two teams and someone might break through like a Heritage.
5a is very top heavy Hampton, Salem-VB, Indian River, and Norview are the favorites every year. The best thing to happen to them is going back to 4 regions next year because they couldn't win the East because the Richmond schools are very good in 5a that's their strength.
6a is the most competitive but at the end of the day with Chris going to Sullivan it's everyone chasing Oscar Smith. Grassfield is solid Woodside solid on the Pd but Smith is well coached and the kids just know how to win. They might come back to the pack a little next year since they are losing QB Shon Mitchell who has saved their tails this year.
From all this basically you can see our region is top heavy in most cases when it comes to playoff contenders but the regular seasons are grind as these teams know each other well and the kids have grown up with one another. There are schools a couple of miles apart and depending what side of the street you live on decides your school. East has a superiority complex because historically speaking the East has the most state titles. That's a fact. But there are flaws especially in 3a and 5a
WOW I misread this at first.. I thought you meant these schools would be moving to 4A classification. That would really change things obviously!