According to Bowlesby the loss of of Texas and Oklahoma could result in a 50% reduction in tv revenue. Whether or not that is true we probably will be seeing a much smaller paycheck in the future. The remaining big 12 teams are not really in a position to make more money. Its more about trying to minimize losses at this point. There is nothing we are going to be able to do that can replace what Texas and Oklahoma brought. When it comes to wvu I hope we can find another home in one of the existing power 5 conferences. I would take the acc any day over a newly constructed big 12. The new big 12 revenues will fall below the other conferences once the new deals are finalized. Its about the future at this point. There are some that say the acc is the next conference up on the chopping block. That might be so but I would rather be on the titanic when its still in the docks then be on it when its in the middle of the ocean. Wvu went through this when the jumped from the big east to the big 12. I am sure wvu administrators new the big 12 was only a temporary fix.
WVU Definitely Valuable to the ACC
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The newly constructed big 12 whatever that will be will not be making 10 million more than the acc. If Bowlesby is right it could be up to a 50% reduction. Which would put us under what the acc gets. Its about the future at this point and a future in a newly constructed big 12 isn't that appealing. Any of the existing power 5 conferences would be better paychecks then what were looking at in the future.
I stand corrected, it was most recently about $7 million from IMG including in kind facility improvements. WVU retained Some advertising including United Bank and Ruby? Hospital. The most recent figure I could find for that was about $2 million. I was mistaken about Learfield IMG again, it's now about $7.7 per year due to renegotiation and extension of the contract when ESPN+ entered the deal.
"When the Big 12 announced in April a partnership with ESPN to create a conference channel on a streaming platform, that was the precursor to a second piece of business.
Schools like West Virginia that have multimedia right partners were bundling rights to live events and pushing them over to ESPN+ and the newly formed Big 12 Now. That initiated a logical need for the schools and their partners to assess their existing contracts because their partners suddenly had a thinner inventory. Why would they pay the same for less?
The Mountaineers announced last month that they not only extended their partnership with Learfield IMG College for an additional 10 years and through 2034-25, but they also increased the average annual value. The initial agreement signed in 2013 was for 12 years and $86.5 million and about $7.2 million per year. The new agreement, announced on Dec. 23, is for $125 million over 16 years — the six years remaining on the initial contract plus a 10-year extension — and about $600,000 more per year."
That is very reliable, but came from a competitor in 2020. I will PM the source if you'd like.
It is still the net effect as things currently stand, period. Are they subject to change in a couple of years? Absolutely. But until the contract runs out, that is fact.
The ACCN would see a noticeable jump in subscribers if WVU became a member, but nothing like Notre Dame. But several schools would benefit from increased ticket sales, which are a substantial part of their income. WVU fans are a definite missing piece to the puzzle of competing with the SEC and in some places the B1G when it comes to competing for yes watching conference games.
You are obviously not a fan of WVU, but this is not personal. Do you really think the ACC has NOT yet done a cost/benefit analysis on WVU and probably others?
Most of the extra $10 million comes from Tier 3 income exclusive to WVU which no ACC member any longer has.
I don't see the interest being there at the offices of the BIG, the ACC or the SEC. Much as we wish it wasn't so it looks like the future is either in remaining with the BIG12 or going to the AAC. Can the BIG12 survive in ANY form? I think the future would be better for WVU in the BIG12 plus maybe four AAC teams than it would be in the AAC with some or all of the leftovers of the BIG12. Much of this will be in the hands of execs at Fox and ESPN as to how much money is going to be on the table.
For some weird reason, a lot of people here think that if we don’t get into a another power conference, or the Big12 doesn’t survive, that we will be in the AAC; that is not a given, even if we were invited there, doesn’t mean we accept it. But I wouldn’t be surprised of not getting an invitation in the first place.
How do you come to the conclusion that I am not a WVU fan? I starting going to games when I was a kid in the early early 90's and spent 8 years getting 2 degrees from WVU. My bona-fides aside, I know what WVU is and what it's fan engagement is. Even before all the improvements from 2000 to now, WVU was still far ahead of Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, and Maryland in all the areas you are mentioning. Yet WVU was passed over for all 4 of those schools which makes it pretty clear that something else mattered a hell of a lot more. Unless there has been some cataclysmic shift, other factor(s) must still hold at least some importance to compete with your fan engagement premise. Especially since the other factor(s) completely dominated the importance of fan engagement a decade ago as illustrated by the absolute **** programs that were taken other than WVU. I'm not saying WVU isn't better than most ACC schools in terms of sports quality and fan engagement. I'm not saying that WVU wouldn't pull its financial weight or even bring in more money. I just doubt it's so much of a value add that the ACC couldn't have a legitimate calculation to not invite WVU. Especially seeing as staying put is an option for them just like the Big 12 found out when we looked into expansion a few years ago. It's precisely because I am a WVU fan, which doesn't mean I must be a homer, that I am pessimistic. That's because WVU has gotten spurned more often than not for programs that are clearly inferior in terms of fans and competitiveness.
Well, it is certainly true that the BIG and the ACC and the AAC can already lay claim to some of the geography that we bring. We would only be unique in the PAC and the Big12, in terms of geography. We also don't need to be invited to the BIG12, so that is another reason I hope it can survive and grow. The bottom of the BIG12 isn't as ugly as the bottom of the AAC.
The logical move would be for the Big 12 to raid the top of the AAC as the basement of the Big 12 outside of Kansas is not nearly as ugly as the AAC. If the remaining Big 12 teams do not get lucrative offers, the 8 Big 12 teams would need to add 4 teams. Cincy and UCF makes sense to expand foot print and these are the best programs the AAC currently has. BYU would be the next best option for similar reasons. Last spot is questionable. Houston isn't a bad program, but does the Big 12 need another Texas school?
Agree with your opinion. ..ucf...cincy and Houston for sure. However see Colorado state for all sports in addition to byu for football only. Would expand on that to grab more markets...usf...Memphis...and navy for football o ly. 16 football...14 all sports. Ton of big markets.
You sound just like the ACC, B1G, PAC to just add the "best programs" in their minds. No wonder WVU is getting left out of these discussions.
Very well stated. I am convinced that back then a block of four schools and those in charge still had a problem with June 20, 1863. They are gone now. I've been in South Carolina for 15 years now and I can tell you attitudes of recent generations have changed. I grew up in the 60's when stereotypes were taught as an accepted part of life.
On Jan 4, 2012 WVU's football reputation received a huge boost in the Carolinas by totally humiliating a 10 - 2 Clemson team that had defeated VT in the ACC Championship game by 4 TDS. WVU's 70 - 33 pounding of Dabo Swinney's Tajh Boyd and Sammy Watkins led 14th ranked team gained WVU a lot of too late respect in ACC territory. Swinney even fired his defensive coordinator. WVU officially joined the Big 12 on July 1, 2012 after being invited in October of 2011.
For some reason, the Big 12 even paid $9 million of WVU's $20 million settlement with the Big East. They weren't simply trying to add another team to go with TCU, they wanted the so called 'best of the rest.' The next thing I am going to share with you, most people scoff at but an excellent inside source who played for WVU and became a successful NFL pro swore to me was true.
He stated that hours after WVU immediately accepted the Big 12 official invitation, ACC Commissioner Swofford called to inform AD Luck that although no vote had been taken a 'show of hands' indicated WVU would be offered if they held off on the Big 12 and agreed to accept an invitation if one were offered. That's how it works.
True or not, I believed him and I was an online sportswriter at the time. My point is, things change as well as peoples' attitudes and beliefs. Does that mean I believe the ACC and WVU are currently working out a deal? Not unless it includes Notre Dame going all in with WVU making the 16th member. But Shane Lyons tells us there is nothing to worry about and we have 4 * recruits assisting with recruiting. Shane was the Assistant ACC Commissioner for 10 years up until 2011. I do believe something is going on with someone that will be good for WVU. I'm 68, my friend. I have to.
I hope you are right, but have my doubts as stated above. I also fear that even if WVU lands on its feet after this shift, it's only a matter of time as the college football world consolidates power and tries to move to less and less teams in the "power" conference status.
I don't think we will end up in the acc sec or big 10 either at least not initially. If the big 10 or sec's long term goal is to get to 20 or 24 teams I think there's a chance we end up somewhere in that equation. For now we probably end up in some big 8/ aac hybrid conference which is a bummer. It would be great for wvu to be a member of a conference that isn't a left over conference. It seems like we always get stuck in the left over conferences.
People take this expansion stuff way too personal. I think most respect what wvu has been able to accomplish considering its a small state with no recruiting base and minimal tv market. Its just that expansion is a business decision. why a conference chooses to expand and who they invite is based on what fits there model nothing more nothing less. Its business its not personal.
Big 12 has been very good for us financially and national recognition wise. I think what happens next is up to WVU, starting with VT and MD.
First class facilities are great and necessary but now we need to surprise some folks with some unexpected wins.
If it was about markets in the beginning WVU possibly could have presented an argument to show they control the Pittsburgh media market better than Pitt.
ACC has always added schools without reason. After Florida State there hasn’t been a great add. They changed the how people viewed the ACC. Stuck on being a basketball conference
Hard now because Pitt is already there.
Nobody has a clue of what happens next.
ACC has revenue issues and they are looking to make a statement.
Have to understand. WVU isn’t a statement right now. Pretty much is a move that is predicted because ACC no longer feels like they can compete with the SEC.
Too many schools either involved with SEC schools or rhe SEC is a major threat.
Some people live in Charlotte. Is the SEC really watched more there than the ACC
ACC has always added schools without reason. After Florida State there hasn’t been a great add. They changed the how people viewed the ACC. Stuck on being a basketball conference
Hard now because Pitt is already there.
Nobody has a clue of what happens next.
ACC has revenue issues and they are looking to make a statement.
Have to understand. WVU isn’t a statement right now. Pretty much is a move that is predicted because ACC no longer feels like they can compete with the SEC.
Too many schools either involved with SEC schools or rhe SEC is a major threat.
Some people live in Charlotte. Is the SEC really watched more there than the ACC
Agree--the winning WVU had done prior to the last realignment--especially RR era really helped WVU move along. Its a very important piece of the puzzle for certain.
I'm sure, almost absolutely sure
the Longhorn Network Failure started all this crap because ESPN/Disney/ABC gave Texas an ultimatum...
Hard to believe ESPN owes Texas
$300 million over 10 years.
Dumb
ESPN is willing to destroy others for their own Survival....
the Longhorn Network Failure started all this crap because ESPN/Disney/ABC gave Texas an ultimatum...
Hard to believe ESPN owes Texas
$300 million over 10 years.
Dumb
ESPN is willing to destroy others for their own Survival....
Its possible the B10, PAC and ACC won't expand at all--but its not necessarily "likely".
The Big Ten is probably set financially and will get an SEC like deal no matter what they do, because FOX is probably going to buy all their rights away--if not them then CBS is going to be there.
But the PAC and ACC--both have LOWER tv payouts that are only going to go up with:
A:More inventory--especially in the case of the PAC 12
and/or
B: Expansion. The ACC must reopen their long term contracts to get more money per team from expansion.
The PAC has a new deal set to happen in 2024 so they'll have to try to get something into that contract (or else would have to try to reopen it a little later).
Now of course the desire from some has been to relegate BIG 12 schools down to the AAC because hey! that supposedly gets you off the hook for having to pay people. But BIG 12 schools don't really become unvaluable because they aren't going to play one game vs. UT or one game vs. OU each year. Its a scare tactic orchestrated to get schools to panic and not act in their best interest by waiting things out to make sure they receive all the value they are supposed to receive.
The Big Ten is probably set financially and will get an SEC like deal no matter what they do, because FOX is probably going to buy all their rights away--if not them then CBS is going to be there.
But the PAC and ACC--both have LOWER tv payouts that are only going to go up with:
A:More inventory--especially in the case of the PAC 12
and/or
B: Expansion. The ACC must reopen their long term contracts to get more money per team from expansion.
The PAC has a new deal set to happen in 2024 so they'll have to try to get something into that contract (or else would have to try to reopen it a little later).
Now of course the desire from some has been to relegate BIG 12 schools down to the AAC because hey! that supposedly gets you off the hook for having to pay people. But BIG 12 schools don't really become unvaluable because they aren't going to play one game vs. UT or one game vs. OU each year. Its a scare tactic orchestrated to get schools to panic and not act in their best interest by waiting things out to make sure they receive all the value they are supposed to receive.
This is where I don't understand you logic. Do think the ACC did not do this same cost/benefit analysis the last time they expanded?
The ACC schools do have Tier 3 revenue. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time with this Tier 3 concept.
Yes (I live 22 miles South and worked for Dish Network 3 years) The distance from Charlotte to USCe in Columbia is roughly the same as from Pitt to WVU. This is definitely SEC territory. Charlotte may be just across the border in NC, but the Panthers were named Carolina instead of Charlotte for a reason. In fact, the Panthers are moving everything except Bank of America Stadium to Rock Hill, SC. Construction is underway on a 240 acre site just off I-77. The Gamecocks are just more popular in this area than surrounding schools
There is no doubt that the big 12 has been good to WVU from a financial standpoint. The main concern is how does WVU keep it going after Oklahoma and Texas depart. If Bowlesby is correct that OU and TX are 50% of the value in the conference. Its hard to imagine that any move outside of a long shot invite to the big 10 or sec is going to keep the good times rolling.
Better yet add both usf and navy. Navy is national. Also add byu for the same reason paired with colorado state in the denver market. Go 16 big 12-4=8.