Look what the 17 did you people expect to beat LSU and Bama? And on top of that we NOW realize that aTm is pretty damned good! Did it ever don on ya'll that these teams are just FLAT OUT BETTER? Better coaches and better players? LSU is the most talented team in the nation BAR NONE (yes even more than Bama) it's just that Bama has better coaching. This game came down to the missed blocks off the edge. Do you have any idea how hard ot is to block a player like Mingo? At the same time we were completely without LdP. Our running game wasn't there because they would be in cover 0 to stop it. I'm gonna be honest with you this is the best I have seen the offensive line play since going to Gainsville a few yrs ago. And that was run blocking it's actually HARDER to pass block (as we did tonight) for 4 qtrs like we did. If you'd have told me yesterday that we were in a nip tuck game with THAT defensive line and Tyler stayed upright throughout the game.......I'd have called you a damned liar! Defensively this is what you people were clamoring for right? Man-to-man coverage using our "strength"? Right? Load the box and say "we're gonna leave JB and Slay on that island" Right? There's a reason we stayed in cover 3 and cover 2 most of the year. Maybe because we JUST AREN'T THAT GOOD in man coverage. Am I happy with the result...NO. We lost. Am I pissed? No, I didn't expect us to beat LSU. If you did go ahead and take another step off that "cliff" you are on right now. It's absurd and idiotic to think we were going to beat LSU tonight. We were competitive, that's what you wanted according to your posts. The score of the game wasn't indicative of the game. With what I saw today there isn't ANY reason to think we can't be 9-3 with the effort I saw tonight.
You people need to calm the 17 down!!!
- Thread starter Coach 57
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Agreed... Good post.
The OL is right on the verge of becoming a special unit. The amount that they were able to neutralize Montgomery and Mingo for all but one series tonight was very impressive. And we have them ALL coming back next year with most coming back for multiple years. Plus if you believe in recruiting rankings, we are consistently upgrading talent at the position from year to year. Just takes 3 years to see that on the field...
The defensive issues are well-known at this point. How much of it is scheme or how much is talent is something we can debate...
The OL is right on the verge of becoming a special unit. The amount that they were able to neutralize Montgomery and Mingo for all but one series tonight was very impressive. And we have them ALL coming back next year with most coming back for multiple years. Plus if you believe in recruiting rankings, we are consistently upgrading talent at the position from year to year. Just takes 3 years to see that on the field...
The defensive issues are well-known at this point. How much of it is scheme or how much is talent is something we can debate...
I know I just posted a rant...
But you can have good units all you want... but I want to win games. We looked better this week than we did last week, but it's the same things week after week that continue to cost us position to win them. Things like: 1. kickoff coverage 2. defense in critical situations (3rd down, end of quarters, red zone... etc.) 3. confidence in big games. It's not simply losing games that frustrate me, it's losing them the same way, week after week, and no steps are being taken to correct those problems.... instead, those same problems continually cost us big games.
But you can have good units all you want... but I want to win games. We looked better this week than we did last week, but it's the same things week after week that continue to cost us position to win them. Things like: 1. kickoff coverage 2. defense in critical situations (3rd down, end of quarters, red zone... etc.) 3. confidence in big games. It's not simply losing games that frustrate me, it's losing them the same way, week after week, and no steps are being taken to correct those problems.... instead, those same problems continually cost us big games.
So in year 4, we're still thankful for moral victories? Don't take this as a Mullen needs to go post or anything of the sort but saying stuff like "we just aren't good in man coverage", who's fault is that when we have 2 of the better corners in college football? As for wins and losses and whether we expect to win or not, when's the last time we upset anybody? LSU, Bama, who? Who have we pulled a major upset on under Dan Mullen since the Florida game that you mentioned and even that wasn't a big time upset. Hell, we were better than Florida that year. That's the source of frustration. That and a defense that is getting physically abused week in and week out. Hats off to the O-Line especially since we were in pass only mode for damn near the final 3 quarters but sooner or later, we have to forget who we're playing and expect to win. It's the only way we'll ever take a step forward one of these days. We're past the point of just wanting to compete. Take away the fumble and we're still a play or 2 away from winning the game despite having a terrible defense. These weren't the 2007 LSU Tigers.
Every once in a while, we will flirt with being in that upper tier and it will take Bama/LSU having a down year to get there.
Think about our SEC WEst losses - we have had one loss where I thought we should have won and it was Auburn last year.
Think about our SEC WEst losses - we have had one loss where I thought we should have won and it was Auburn last year.
We all want to win games. But it's a completely Ole Miss mindset to just expect us to suddenly jump up on a wing and a prayer and start beating top 10 teams who have excellent coaches, outrecruit us yearly, and have solid foundations of winning over decades. We are winning games at the 2nd greatest pace this state has seen in 40 years(to our own 98-00 run). This is fact.
Simply not time to hop off the bandwagon. I'm with you in the "annoyance" of some of our issues. But Mullen has consistently proven that he is willing to evolve and do what it takes to be successful. Remember everyone wanting Hevesy fired last year? I do. Can probably find 30 links in the archives. Last time we had a severely underperforming DC, what happened? We sent him packing. Seems Mullen knew better than most here then, so why do we not trust him to get this done correctly now?
We just do not yet fully have the horses to expect to beat top 10 teams...simple fact. These past 3 games have been rough. But looking at the big picture, we are still right where MOST of us expected to be...
But still, we haven't beaten and SEC team this year that has won a single SEC game... and it's week 10 (granted, I expected Tennessee to beat someone by this point, as well as Auburn to be better than they are now). Nor have we beaten an SEC team, sans OM in '09 and Florida and Georgia in '10, who have finished in the top half of the conference. I'm ready for us to take that next step.
Also, it's the same mistakes that keep costing us these big games... and until we can fix those mistakes, I will continue to be frustrated.
Also, it's the same mistakes that keep costing us these big games... and until we can fix those mistakes, I will continue to be frustrated.
I can flip every bit of that though.
- When was the last time we were UPSET BY anybody? Jackie lost to teams with LOSING records every single year of his career other of 99 and 00. Mullen has never lost to a team outside the top 30. Not one single game. Were you even a fan in the 98 "glory season" when we went down to Baton Rouge to play a terrible 4-7 LSU team? A terrible LSU team that proceeded to beat us 41 to 6? How about getting blown out by a 5-6 Oklahoma State team the same year? And THAT is one of the most memorable football seasons in MSU history!
- You do realize that there is ALOT more to "man coverage" than 2 lock down cornerbacks don't you? Both of those guys have been AS ADVERTISED. Both have played great. Not their fault that our safeties keep missing assignments over the top and making them look bad.
- We will never "expect to win" against top 10 teams. Never going to happen @ MSU. I hope it does, but expect it to simply sets yourself up for a lifetime of heartache. Sorry.
- This team is every bit as good as the 2007 LSU Tigers. They just don't benefit from the wackiest season in college football history getting them into a championship game through the back door with 2 regular season losses. Everything else about them is JUST as good as it was then.
But no one, including myself, expected our defense to be this big of a weakness this year. As a matter of fact, the only unit on defense I expected to struggle was our linebackers, and they have held their ground more than the line or secondary this year.
I'm not ready to hop off the bandwagon, but I expect us to focus on fixing those same mistakes that have cost us these big games since Mullen got here.
Finally, I didn't expect to win tonight, but I want to win games. I'm ready to earn the respect this team deserves... not simply "well, we met expectations and beat who we were supposed to," but I want to see us fight and claw our asses off in these big games... to give opposing teams fits the whole game, and we simply don't do that. We don't intimidate Bama or LSU, and won't until we can show them we deserve to play with them. We do that by executing our gameplan, not giving us more than we have to, and not making stupid mistakes.
I'm not ready to hop off the bandwagon, but I expect us to focus on fixing those same mistakes that have cost us these big games since Mullen got here.
Finally, I didn't expect to win tonight, but I want to win games. I'm ready to earn the respect this team deserves... not simply "well, we met expectations and beat who we were supposed to," but I want to see us fight and claw our asses off in these big games... to give opposing teams fits the whole game, and we simply don't do that. We don't intimidate Bama or LSU, and won't until we can show them we deserve to play with them. We do that by executing our gameplan, not giving us more than we have to, and not making stupid mistakes.
I'll take 9 wins every day of the week year in and year out but I think we can..
Make strides to win these games once every, I don't know, 15 years or so. We're good enough to do that if we shore up a couple things and take away the awful blunders like the fumble tonight. It's all about perception. We can't keep just expecting to lose. To Mullen's credit, he's built a believer (maybe a bad choice of words) but he's built a confidence among the fanbase that wins can be put together here. Now it's time to start beating someone that we aren't supposed to from time to time. Not saying we are supposed to be beating LSU and Bama often or even remotely frequently but it's time to pull an upset over somebody. We've come far enough to start expecting it every once in a while and not just being content on playing hard. We sound just like another team I know with talk like that. Only difference is we're 3 years down the road from them.
Make strides to win these games once every, I don't know, 15 years or so. We're good enough to do that if we shore up a couple things and take away the awful blunders like the fumble tonight. It's all about perception. We can't keep just expecting to lose. To Mullen's credit, he's built a believer (maybe a bad choice of words) but he's built a confidence among the fanbase that wins can be put together here. Now it's time to start beating someone that we aren't supposed to from time to time. Not saying we are supposed to be beating LSU and Bama often or even remotely frequently but it's time to pull an upset over somebody. We've come far enough to start expecting it every once in a while and not just being content on playing hard. We sound just like another team I know with talk like that. Only difference is we're 3 years down the road from them.
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I honestly don't think we will. We will be a consistent 7-8 win team with proper scheduling with a step up year every now and then. And I am happy with that.
And we should be kicked in the head for scheduling OK State next year.
And we should be kicked in the head for scheduling OK State next year.
********. A typically good-to-great MSU defense would have been enough to get a win tonight and LSU isn't in a down year by any means.
Beating a LSU doesn't have to be a once-every-2-decades thing that is dependent on LSU being down. Get that Larry Templeton defeatist crap out of here.
We are losing big games because we are outclassed talent wise.
We have lost to three TOP TEN teams. Honestly probably top 5 teams based on how they were playing when we saw them. You can "be ready for us to take the next step" all you want to. But you haven't been following closely or logically to think we can just snap our fingers and become some powerhouse team that is expected to beat Alabama or LSU on the road.
I could make the case that the Ole Miss loss tonight to Vandy was worse than any single loss that Mullen has had in his 48 games here. It definitely is if you consider the team's ranking at the time the game is played. Vandy received ZERO AP poll votes last week. Outside the top 41. Our only losses that come close are 2009 Houston(27th AP) and 2011 Auburn(27th AP). 2 "unranked" losses in 48 games.
Think we have beaten LSU 6 times in the past 32 years, with 5 of those won by running the wishbone. The other game was given to us by a controversial call at the end. Since we're not as good, big, or fast as they are, maybe we need to try something tricky to beat them. But, considering our weak defense and lack of pass rush to stop them, we would probably still lose.
Only problem with this^ is if we have a good defense, our offense will suck. We can never get that combination of good offense AND good D....not at MSU. I keep thinking we can, but I've come to the conclusion that for one aspect to improve the other must suffer. Sucks
The past 2 weeks have been the most efficient LSU offense I have seen in a very long time. What he did earlier in the year is immaterial at this point. Mettenberger made a couple NFL throws against us tonight, just like he did against Alabama last week. We played pretty well if you compare stat for stat our game vs them and Alabama's game vs them. Everywhere other than points allowed, which was on us for stupid mental mistakes...
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Any resemblance of a defense and this is a winnable game tonight. It's past time we quit treating LSU like the big bad wolf. You either nut up every once in a while or you don't. Period. It's not like they or any of these "teams that outclass us talent wise" are going to be joining other conferences any time soon. The defeatist days have to go. Win lose or draw, I simply cannot expect to lose every time we play someone we are an underdog to.
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Yes, all those times we had a great offense and no defense proves....wait that's not happened until Mullen got here.
I just showed you that we outperformed Alabama's defense in Death Valley. Ignore it if you want to.
LSU is the big bad wolf. Have been for awhile. Doesn't excuse what happened in the 90s. But how many times in the past decade have we been favored over them? That's what I thought. Zero. They are only 50-7 in Baton Rouge in Les Miles' ENTIRE career... Wonder how many they've lost down there after the sun went down? 2 I think?
There is a difference between being a defeatist and a realist. You can keep expecting to beat teams that are favored by two touchdowns over us if you want to, but you are going to be in for a shitload of disappointment. Our recruiting is STILL not back to JWS levels yet. Getting closer, but not there.
Next season in Starkville has potential to be our most favorable "chance" to beat them in since before Saban showed up in Baton Rouge. Just got to do the little things right and get better...
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Starting to like this engie guy. He's got some great points. Was JUST about to say the same thing about Mullen not losing to teams he's supposed to beat. Plus in today's era of college football where MORE talent will and can go to the smaller schools unlike in JWS tenure.
DS is just stating the reality of our situation. And yes, Scheduling OSU was crazy as hell. We will struggle to win 7 next year.
We don't pull upsets b/c other than a handful of games, we have played to our
potential. When we play somebody that is favored over us, they are typically much more athletic than us. Also, a disproportionate number of our games where we're underdogs have been against top 5 teams. A lot of 'huge' upsets happenn b/c the highly ranked team is overrated. Haven't been too many SEC West teams overrated the last few years.
potential. When we play somebody that is favored over us, they are typically much more athletic than us. Also, a disproportionate number of our games where we're underdogs have been against top 5 teams. A lot of 'huge' upsets happenn b/c the highly ranked team is overrated. Haven't been too many SEC West teams overrated the last few years.
paying a coach what we are paying - should give us reason to start upping our expectations at this stage in his career ... I get recruiting, and playing against top tier teams,and building a program takes a little time, but next year we have every right to expect more
All good points. I agree with Engie, there is no magic formula. It is about a process of getting a little better each year. We have gotten better this year namely on offense. Next year we return our entire offensive line, running backs, our NFL QB, and if we get Rumph, and Ro Jo, Lewis, Morrow, and a few others step up, our offense should be even better next year.
Furthermore, we lose Boyd on the d-line next year, but we will also have Quay, Nick James, and Autry with a year of experience under their belt and a year in the weight room. I think the d-line will better next year. We lose Cam at LB, but we also add more talent in the Brown brothers. While they may need to watch a lot of film, our linebackers will be more athletic next year. Finally, our secondary will be the main question mark, Jiles, Cox, Remond, Whitley, Calhoun, and Love will have to step up. However, I am optimistic because, after watching our secondary last night, how much worse could it be?
All this being said, we are getting more athletic as team, and our recruiting is getting better. If we continue this trend, the upsets are on the way.
Mullen doesn't lose to teams that he is better than, and I expect us to win the next two.
Furthermore, we lose Boyd on the d-line next year, but we will also have Quay, Nick James, and Autry with a year of experience under their belt and a year in the weight room. I think the d-line will better next year. We lose Cam at LB, but we also add more talent in the Brown brothers. While they may need to watch a lot of film, our linebackers will be more athletic next year. Finally, our secondary will be the main question mark, Jiles, Cox, Remond, Whitley, Calhoun, and Love will have to step up. However, I am optimistic because, after watching our secondary last night, how much worse could it be?
All this being said, we are getting more athletic as team, and our recruiting is getting better. If we continue this trend, the upsets are on the way.
Mullen doesn't lose to teams that he is better than, and I expect us to win the next two.
3 years ago...
..you would have praised the MSU A.D. for scheduling Oklahoma State because of the "recruiting exposure." If you want MSU to break out of its shell & become a national program, playing Oklahoma State at a neutral site is your first step in that direction. But now suddenly everybody wants to shut things down, remain in our own backyard, & avoid challenging scenarios. When Mullen first arrived, we were going to win a national championship. Now that Mullen has been here 4 years, we're cursing the MSU A.D. for placing us in the spotlight. You people need to decide what you want: To follow Mullen's lead & take chances or shut it down & keep @Troy as our signature OOC away game. In closing, playing Oklahoma State is, indeed, going to be good for recruiting. I don't know why you could freely admit that in 2009 but admitting that in 2012 almost gets you banned.
..you would have praised the MSU A.D. for scheduling Oklahoma State because of the "recruiting exposure." If you want MSU to break out of its shell & become a national program, playing Oklahoma State at a neutral site is your first step in that direction. But now suddenly everybody wants to shut things down, remain in our own backyard, & avoid challenging scenarios. When Mullen first arrived, we were going to win a national championship. Now that Mullen has been here 4 years, we're cursing the MSU A.D. for placing us in the spotlight. You people need to decide what you want: To follow Mullen's lead & take chances or shut it down & keep @Troy as our signature OOC away game. In closing, playing Oklahoma State is, indeed, going to be good for recruiting. I don't know why you could freely admit that in 2009 but admitting that in 2012 almost gets you banned.
He is paid more than Philips, Freeze, Dooley, Smith,and Sumlin(for this year) so he has a better SEC record than everybody he gets paid more than except for Sumlin and add Chizik and Pinkle to the list of better record, paid less.
Mullen is the 8th highest paid coach out of the SEC. And I guarantee you he will be 9th after this year when Sumlin gets his pay raise.
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm
http://www.coacheshotseat.com/SalariesContracts.htm
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I think you are a little off on your assessment of what we are doing schematically in the secondary. There has to be a breaking point. I can count on one hand how many times Banks or Slay have truly been burned this year. That is just a risk you have to take when you play teams that are better than you. If they are truly our best players on defense, which I believe they are, we HAVE to put more responsibility on them. I am ok with running a Cover 2 man and letting the safeties roam, so you arent in full man, but we obviously can't synch up well between our corners and safeties.
I think you are a little off on your assessment of what we are doing schematically in the secondary. There has to be a breaking point. I can count on one hand how many times Banks or Slay have truly been burned this year. That is just a risk you have to take when you play teams that are better than you. If they are truly our best players on defense, which I believe they are, we HAVE to put more responsibility on them. I am ok with running a Cover 2 man and letting the safeties roam, so you arent in full man, but we obviously can't synch up well between our corners and safeties.