Zach Edey Crushing People & Refs Swallow Whistle

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
You can't watch single plays in isolation and get a sense of "good" or "bad" calls. My wife will sometimes come in midway through the second half and say something was a missed call or a ticky tack call, but it's something that made sense in the larger context of how the game had been called to that point. "They haven't called that all game" or "they've been sticklers for that today" etc

Games should make sense if you watch all the way through, and calls should establish what is and isn't acceptable in a consistent way. I'd say most do, with a smattering of "missed" calls. But many are just a mess of inconsistency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TC4THREE

GoodOl'Rutgers

Heisman
Sep 11, 2006
123,974
19,584
0
Because many of those happen when his defender is in his cylinder and therefore technically should be fouls on the defense.
He uses his elbows and forearms to claim a much wider "cylinder" than he deserves. He sticks them out to make space. If you want to talk cylinder, think of Palmquist's offensive foul. The defender clearly jumped into his cylinder and all he did was try to straighten himself after receiving the ball from his left side. The defender humped his knee and somehow got the call. Now THAT is a cylinder.
 

TC4THREE

All-Conference
Mar 20, 2002
44,402
2,447
113
Will be interesting to see if the refs in the tourney let Edey get away with what he does in Big10 play
This narrative always makes me laugh. If only there were a portion of our schedule where we weren't playing in the Big Ten to be able to judge that.....
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

Heisman
Sep 11, 2006
123,974
19,584
0
You can't watch single plays in isolation and get a sense of "good" or "bad" calls. My wife will sometimes come in midway through the second half and say something was a missed call or a ticky tack call, but it's something that made sense in the larger context of how the game had been called to that point. "They haven't called that all game" or "they've been sticklers for that today" etc

Games should make sense if you watch all the way through, and calls should establish what is and isn't acceptable in a consistent way. I'd say most do, with a smattering of "missed" calls. But many are just a mess of inconsistency.
You can assess during the game. Are the same calls made on both ends of the court or not. While you see palms and travels all over teh court these days, when you see one team called and the other not.. nearly back-to-back.. there is something odd about that.

Also, you can account for the possession calls made in lieu of a foul call. Those, too, happen all the time. Then in the final two minutes that fails to work to even things up because they can go to videoreview where they cannot then call a foul because that would have been the right call at the time.

You also see some situations where one team gets "continuation" or a delayed foul call until they shoot and another team gets the call "on-the-floor".. not a shooting foul.

You see refs making late calls based on "no harm, no foul".. or so it seems. You see them watching if the shot is altered or will go miss before they whistle.. or if the ball is retained or lost.

I cannot say if it would be a better game to WATCH if they made more calls and instantly do so. I think they could easily justify doing so because they are out there to enforce the rules of the game. The more they allow the more that encourages teams to do more of the same... more pushing and shoving and grabbing and reaching in and palming etc etc etc. I suspect if there were constant calls then after some time, players would play more cleanly.. like the old days.

But, clearly, the more they allow the more infractions occur (with or without calls) and the more CONTROL the refs can have re: the outcomes by choosing which calls to make or not.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TC4THREE

rupop2

Senior
Aug 4, 2014
1,092
999
113
Yeah damn forgot that. I get that they are super long and may inadvertently smack guys but this is next level.

Edey's entire offense is 3 feet and cheap free throws when a mini human touches him at all. He complains a shitload though.
I think he complains as much as Paul but w/o the theatrics.
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

Heisman
Sep 11, 2006
123,974
19,584
0
I think he complains as much as Paul but w/o the theatrics.
I do think Edey plays D more cleanly this year than last and prior. They mentioned he is in better condition this year, perhaps that is the reason. But, yeah, he complains and he fouls a lot.
 

DC8690

All-Conference
Feb 8, 2017
902
1,464
93
He gets a lot of calls. I don’t care how “cleanly” he plays defense, you play over 30 games and the guy has never been called for more than 3 fouls in a game (and that only happened a handful of times). I don’t get why the refs swallow their whistle and it was the same with Garza. The funny thing is there is a thread on their board with an article that quotes a former NCAA former official saying how he gets “the living crap beat out of him”.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RUChoppin

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
You can assess during the game. Are the same calls made on both ends of the court or not. While you see palms and travels all over teh court these days, when you see one team called and the other not.. nearly back-to-back.. there is something odd about that.

Also, you can account for the possession calls made in lieu of a foul call. Those, too, happen all the time. Then in the final two minutes that fails to work to even things up because they can go to videoreview where they cannot then call a foul because that would have been the right call at the time.

You also see some situations where one team gets "continuation" or a delayed foul call until they shoot and another team gets the call "on-the-floor".. not a shooting foul.

You see refs making late calls based on "no harm, no foul".. or so it seems. You see them watching if the shot is altered or will go miss before they whistle.. or if the ball is retained or lost.

I cannot say if it would be a better game to WATCH if they made more calls and instantly do so. I think they could easily justify doing so because they are out there to enforce the rules of the game. The more they allow the more that encourages teams to do more of the same... more pushing and shoving and grabbing and reaching in and palming etc etc etc. I suspect if there were constant calls then after some time, players would play more cleanly.. like the old days.

But, clearly, the more they allow the more infractions occur (with or without calls) and the more CONTROL the refs can have re: the outcomes by choosing which calls to make or not.

The "same calls made on both ends" is one part of it, and speaks to some level of bias - but that's more rare, in my experience. Usually it's just gross inconsistency - which may impact one team a bit more than the other, but it's not an intentional slanting of the table.

One ref might get it in his head partway through a game that he's going to "clean up" the banging underneath - and call a couple of quick fouls. Now, one is a fluke - players might easily think it's just a one-off call that's inconsistent with the tenor of the game - but two back-to-back is generally the ref sending some sort of message that the way the game is called is changing going forward. However, if the officiating goes right back afterwards to allowing that sort of banging - it's just sloppy and bad officiating.

Same with things like hand-checking, palming, moving screens, push offs, block/charge, etc - players get a sense of what is and isn't allowed early on in the game (and having seen a lot of these refs before, they know their tendencies) and adjust their style of play accordingly. Sudden, jarring shifts can cause significant impacts as players scramble to keep up with the ever-changing officiating landscape play-to-play... which is just poor officiating, and we see it far more often than we should at this level, imo.

Of course black-and-white things like out of bounds, goal tending, back court/shot clock violations, etc aren't judgement calls and should always be consistent game to game (but sometimes aren't - frequently in the same games as the other inconsistent officiating, which speaks more to incompetence than just "being human").
 

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
He gets a lot of calls. I don’t care how “cleanly” he plays defense, you play over 30 games and the guy has never been called for more than 3 fouls in a game (and that only happened a handful of times). I don’t get why the refs swallow their whistle and it was the same with Garza. The funny thing is there is a thread on their board with an article that quotes a former NCAA former official saying how he gets “the living crap beat out of him”.

This is the same sort of thing Shaq faced, and the reason why Lebron started flopping.

Big guys get officiated differently. You hit Edey and Simpson with the same amount of force, and you're going to see very different physical results. If Edey and Simpson leaned on/pushed the same player with the same % of their strength/weight, you'll see very different results. If Simpson/Edey each moved their arm, their elbows line up in very different places on opposing players.

Refs obviously try to account for this - but they usually end up allowing more contact than they would had it been a smaller player, and frequently err on the side of swallowing their whistle even when fouls are obvious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TC4THREE

rob kight

All-American
Oct 22, 2020
4,771
5,959
113
This narrative always makes me laugh. If only there were a portion of our schedule where we weren't playing in the Big Ten to be able to judge that.....
Maybe we will get a final four matchup with Purdue and have non Big refs and see what happens!
 

rob kight

All-American
Oct 22, 2020
4,771
5,959
113
This is the same sort of thing Shaq faced, and the reason why Lebron started flopping.

Big guys get officiated differently. You hit Edey and Simpson with the same amount of force, and you're going to see very different physical results. If Edey and Simpson leaned on/pushed the same player with the same % of their strength/weight, you'll see very different results. If Simpson/Edey each moved their arm, their elbows line up in very different places on opposing players.

Refs obviously try to account for this - but they usually end up allowing more contact than they would had it been a smaller player, and frequently err on the side of swallowing their whistle even when fouls are obvious.
2 consecutive push offs on Wolf’s back had nothing to do with elbows, but were clearly offensive fouls. The non call resulted in east points for Edey.
 

RUChoppin

Heisman
Dec 1, 2006
19,270
13,695
0
2 consecutive push offs on Wolf’s back had nothing to do with elbows, but were clearly offensive fouls. The non call resulted in east points for Edey.
I didn't say they weren't?

Just saying big guys get different calls than regular size guys, and frequently refs allow more contact both ways. Edey benefits from getting away with a lot that other centers get whistled for, but he also probably could go to the free throw line twice as often as he does. On balance, I personally think he gets more far benefit than he should, and he will very likely see different officiating in the tournament.