Big East COY: Week 11

[Halldan]

I'll post this every Sunday

Same as last week

1 Danny Hurley
Looking in the rearview mirror

2 Rick Pitino
Playing better now than Hurley's team

3 Kevin Willard
Has done a great job. but can't lose 4 games to Hurley and Pitino and be expected to win the award.

 

[joeyklings]

Looks to be spot on

 

[Pirate Russ]

Hard to argue with your list, but I almost think coach of the year should be a math exercise - Money Spent on NIL / Total Big East Wins.

 

[shu67]

I'll post this every Sunday

Same as last week

1 Danny Hurley
Looking in the rearview mirror

2 Rick Pitino
Playing better now than Hurley's team

3 Kevin Willard
Has done a great job. but can't lose 4 games to Hurley and Pitino and be expected to win the award.

#1 Willard

Yes he can win the award since it should be based on what you do with what you were expected to do. Everyone expected UConn and St Johns to do well and be 1 2 given their resources and building on last season's success.

No one expected Nova to be in third place. Willard did a great job rebuilding the Nova program and resurrecting it from the dead. Great talent from the portal and meshing all the new players into a winning formula. The biggest surprise outside of what Sha did with the Hall.

 

[Seton75]

KW

 

[Halldan]

#1 Willard

No one expected Nova to be in third place. Willard did a great job rebuilding the Nova program and resurrecting it from the dead. Great talent from the portal and meshing all the new players into a winning formula. The biggest surprise outside of what Sha did with the Hall.

Did anyone expect Holloway to be in 4th place. But he doesn't deserve the award to date either.

 

[HallX2]

I'll post this every Sunday

Same as last week

1 Danny Hurley
Looking in the rearview mirror

2 Rick Pitino
Playing better now than Hurley's team

3 Kevin Willard
Has done a great job. but can't lose 4 games to Hurley and Pitino and be expected to win the award.

Clearly all good coaches. Willard the weakest obviously. But they all have by far the most NIL spend. They literally lap the field. So does that make them truly the COY? Although I will say the more you spend the bigger the job of managing the egos and getting it all to gel. Rutgers last year being exhibit A. So I guess it does make them the candidates.

 

[SHallguy2]

Hard to argue with your list, but I almost think coach of the year should be a math exercise - Money Spent on NIL / Total Big East Wins.

If SHU had Uconn money, I think Sha would be the coach of the year.

 

[SHallguy2]

#1 Willard

Yes he can win the award since it should be based on what you do with what you were expected to do. Everyone expected UConn and St Johns to do well and be 1 2 given their resources and building on last season's success.

No one expected Nova to be in third place. Willard did a great job rebuilding the Nova program and resurrecting it from the dead. Great talent from the portal and meshing all the new players into a winning formula. The biggest surprise outside of what Sha did with the Hall.

Agree 100% 1. Willard 2. Holloway
I would love to see both in Big East championship game! Made for TV story line.

 

[SPK145]

1) Hurley
2) Willard
3) Pitino Sr.

 

[Bud Boomer]

For me, 4 coaches in the Big East have done a good job this year, although I think you can make a case for 6 given Butler's injuries and Creighton's injuries/personal issues. I'd rank them:

1. Willard
2. Hurley
3. Holloway
4. Pitino Sr.

5. Matta
6. Greg

7. Cooley
8. English
9. Holtman
10. Rick Jr.
11. Shaka

 

[dehere23]

Creighton was picked 3rd preseason by a comfortable margin. 23 overall in the AP. Like the others above them had a highly regarded portal/incoming class, with some returnees people thought would make a jump. Three of the newcomers were picked by the coaches to be first, second and third team all league plus McAndrews.

Losing McAndrews after a few games hurt, but I’m not sure at 7-8 in the league (13-13) overall I can put McDermott in any COY discussion. I just think they are one of the many examples we see these days of portal kids not playing how others thought they would or guys not making projected leaps.

I think if Creighton with alll that was coached by certain others, it would be a mix different discussion here. But people like McDermott.

 

[dehere23]

Hard to argue with your list, but I almost think coach of the year should be a math exercise - Money Spent on NIL / Total Big East Wins.

You could say the same thing pre NIL by and large. I get the point, but it’s definitely a factor in how the award is voted on. Otherwise Jay Wright would have won it even more than he did.

Usually it goes to the coach of a dominant team (if there is one) or whose team makes the most unexpected leap if there isn’t a coach/team at the top that separates themselves.

if Hurley goes 19-1, its hard not to give him the award. He will have broke the record that he and Pitino set the prior 2 years. Or if one of them goes 18-2, again it’s hard not to recognize that level of dominance regardless of NIL because we see so many teams with big portal/incoming classes not perform anywhere close to expectations.

If those two don’t get to 18-19 wins, I can see Willard.

 

[dehere23]

For me, 4 coaches in the Big East have done a good job this year, although I think you can make a case for 6 given Butler's injuries and Creighton's injuries/personal issues. I'd rank them:

1. Willard
2. Hurley
3. Holloway
4. Pitino Sr.

5. Matta
6. Greg

7. Cooley
8. English
9. Holtman
10. Rick Jr.
11. Shaka

Also how is English anywhere but last on this list?

 

[joeyklings]

I would have him last or second to last but he was missing his best player for quite a few games

 

[Bud Boomer]

Also how is English anywhere but last on this list?

Providence has been a bit unlucky with their record. 68th at Kenpom. Marquette (who was picked to finish 5th by the coaches) is 103rd. Xavier is 94th. Depaul 113th. All of those guys are doing a sh*t job, though.

 

[SPK145]

Also how is English anywhere but last on this list?

He should be even lower than that.

 

[BrklynGrad]

As of today.....

Willard
Pitino
Hurley
Holloway.

 

[Seton75]

KW

IMO he is way ahead

 

[Pirate Russ]

USA Today ran an article and listed the 10 most disappointing teams in college basketball. The list included Providence, Creighton and Marquette.

 

[dehere23]

USA Today ran an article and listed the 10 most disappointing teams in college basketball. The list included Providence, Creighton and Marquette.

Who were picked 3-5 preseason in the league. Various reasons driving each.

Mac -- very good coach who has established Creighton as a perennial top 25-type team, Success in turning over multiple rosters. Has resources/NIL to compete at the top of the Big East (no one seems to mention this, because of where they are located and because people like McDermott). Had a highly regarded portal/incoming class. So no reason to think they'd drop off or be that different than their preseason top 25 ranking. Hence why they were picked a clear 3rd in the Big East.

Smart - another very good, proven coach, who has established Marquette as a consistent NCAA tournament team, a few times better than that. Won COY a few years back because he surprised everyone year 1 with the Kolek team. Doesn't play portal game, but folks were betting on retention of kids who were all ranked highly out of prep and incoming freshman like James.

English - unproven coach, but with NIL and perhaps the toughest home court in the Big East. Brought in a number of talented players (both portal and out of prep) to supplement a few solid veterans.

 

[Halldan]

USA Today ran an article and listed the 10 most disappointing teams in college basketball. The list included Providence, Creighton and Marquette.

That goes hand in hand on why the Big East is a distant #5 rated conference.

 

[dehere23]

That goes hand in hand on why the Big East is a distant #5 rated conference.

Yup, in the Big East that we want, UCONN and SJU aren't sitting at 1 loss with their respective squads. Hell Pitino is 30-3 over the last 2 years in the Big East. And these aren't his Kentucky or top Louisville teams (or close to that). Think about that for a second.

Likewise, this Nova team isn't sitting at 3 losses in the Big East that we want. And I'm not throwing shade at all on Willard who has done a really good job year 1 in reestablishing Nova. It's just reality.

From a Hall perspective though, this has been a huge benefit, which I guess is the silver lining. No way our record is close to what it is in the Big East we want. So, we've taken advantage of it to the degree we can, just like the others above us have done the same. Selfishly, it is probably just what the doctor ordered for Sha after last year's debacle. It hasn't yet showed in fan turn out, but it has certainly lifted all our collective faith to varying degrees.

 

[Silkcity Pirate]

As of today.....

Willard
Pitino
Hurley
Holloway.

Noway Willard over Hurley or Pitino .

 

[Bud Boomer]

Pitino has underachieved. Honestly, he's lost his fastball. Ranked 5th in the preseason AP, and they're not even top 20 on kenpom. Had his pick of the litter in the transfer portal and signed zero high-level backcourt players. The team is a mashup of guys who do not complement each other at all. It took him 2 months to realize his best lineup involved max minutes for his 3 best players.

Willard, meanwhile, took over a middling program who was losing their best (and only good) player and as them playing like a top 25 team in year 1. With a freshman PG (albeit a very good one) and a bunch of underwhelming transfers.

 

[joeyklings]

Pitino has underachieved. Honestly, he's lost his fastball. Ranked 5th in the preseason AP, and they're not even top 20 on kenpom. Had his pick of the litter in the transfer portal and signed zero high-level backcourt players. The team is a mashup of guys who do not complement each other at all. It took him 2 months to realize his best lineup involved max minutes for his 3 best players.

Willard, meanwhile, took over a middling program who was losing their best (and only good) player and as them playing like a top 25 team in year 1. With a freshman PG (albeit a very good one) and a bunch of underwhelming transfers.

COY is based on conference play only.
Pitino has the best win of anyone, lost the BE POY, and is 12-1

 

[dehere23]

Pitino has underachieved. Honestly, he's lost his fastball. Ranked 5th in the preseason AP, and they're not even top 20 on kenpom. Had his pick of the litter in the transfer portal and signed zero high-level backcourt players. The team is a mashup of guys who do not complement each other at all. It took him 2 months to realize his best lineup involved max minutes for his 3 best players.

Willard, meanwhile, took over a middling program who was losing their best (and only good) player and as them playing like a top 25 team in year 1. With a freshman PG (albeit a very good one) and a bunch of underwhelming transfers.

I agree with about 80-90% of what you post, but I think this is wild. Pitino won Naismith National COY last season. That's losing your fastball?

I also think it is based on flawed assumptions. We don't know who they could or could not get in the portal except what becomes public. By every public account, they lost out on all the lead guards they targeted before landing what they did, including Silas Demary. Did they "miss" on a few of those young guards in the portal? Certainly seems that way. But everyone misses in free agency. Instead of allowing that to ruin the season, he has them sitting at 12-1.

 

[Halldan]

Some of the confusion is that I started this before the conference season began so at one time it included the OOC season performances. .

Now it is strictly Big East play.

 

[Bud Boomer]

I agree with about 80-90% of what you post, but I think this is wild. Pitino won Naismith National COY last season. That's losing your fastball?

I also think it is based on flawed assumptions. We don't know who they could or could not get in the portal except what becomes public. By every public account, they lost out on all the lead guards they targeted before landing what they did, including Silas Demary. Did they "miss" on a few of those young guards in the portal? Certainly seems that way. But everyone misses in free agency. Instead of allowing that to ruin the season, he has them sitting at 12-1.

I'm just saying what I think. And yes, I think he has lost his fastball. Missed the NCAAs in year 1, bounced in the second round in year 2, and a fringe top 25 team in year 3. All with massive resources and investment.

This year's team has a nice streak going but they are feasting on a weak Big East. And they're not even really feasting. Almost lost to X twice. Almost lost to Seton Hall at home. Was losing to Providence before half the arena got ejected.

Again, this is a guy with Cadillac resources. Top 5 team in the preseason. The #1 ranked transfer portal class in the country. And they're a fringe top 25 team. Which is good, but a step or three below where they should be IMO.

 

[dehere23]

I know you are stating your honest opinion. You haven't been infected with #PDS like others. I just disagree with it. I don't see how anyone can look at his body of work, including Naismith COY last year when he took a team picked 5th in the league to a historic season, as being tantamount to losing his fastball because they haven't met preseason expectations.

And I'll give an apples to apples example. Last year, UCONN was unanimously picked 1 in the Big East (more votes than SJU this year). UCONN was picked top 5 nationally preseason. UCONN has "Cadillac resources", as good a fan base as most anyone nationally. They own an entire state and are covered like the Yankees. Coming off 2 back-to-back national titles, UCONN truly has their "pick of the litter" and brings back some terrific players from the title teams, as well as solid rotation pieces.

Hurley goes 14-6 in a down year in the Big East. Not as bad as this year, but certainly not that good either. Some guys don't make the jump he thought. His big portal acquisition (Mahaney) is a total non-factor. Reed takes longer than he thought. The Diarra/Mahaney/Nowell combination at lead guard/point guard falls flat. Even Karaban has a down year for him.

Would you or anyone have said that Dan Hurley is "losing his fastball"? I certainly don't recall anyone saying that. If they did, I would have vehemently disagreed with it.

 

[lloyde dobler]

He should be even lower than that.

With a $10 million roster.

 

[NCAAsorBust]

Did anyone expect Holloway to be in 4th place. But he doesn't deserve the award to date either.

Nope. In a strong big east, he's the clear cut winner coming in 4th place. Not even a close 2nd. Nobody expected the 5th place team to have a NET in the 80s.

 

[lloyde dobler]

COY is based on conference play only.
Pitino has the best win of anyone, lost the BE POY, and is 12-1

Says who?

 

[Save Continental]

I know you are stating your honest opinion. You haven't been infected with #PDS like others. I just disagree with it. I don't see how anyone can look at his body of work, including Naismith COY last year when he took a team picked 5th in the league to a historic season, as being tantamount to losing his fastball because they haven't met preseason expectations.

And I'll give an apples to apples example. Last year, UCONN was unanimously picked 1 in the Big East (more votes than SJU this year). UCONN was picked top 5 nationally preseason. UCONN has "Cadillac resources", as good a fan base as most anyone nationally. They own an entire state and are covered like the Yankees. Coming off 2 back-to-back national titles, UCONN truly has their "pick of the litter" and brings back some terrific players from the title teams, as well as solid rotation pieces.

Hurley goes 14-6 in a down year in the Big East. Not as bad as this year, but certainly not that good either. Some guys don't make the jump he thought. His big portal acquisition (Mahaney) is a total non-factor. Reed takes longer than he thought. The Diarra/Mahaney/Nowell combination at lead guard/point guard falls flat. Even Karaban has a down year for him.

Would you or anyone have said that Dan Hurley is "losing his fastball"? I certainly don't recall anyone saying that. If they did, I would have vehemently disagreed with it.

You’ve taken white knighting to new and bizarre levels. It’s starting to get creepy.

 

[dehere23]

You’ve taken white knighting to new and bizarre levels. It’s starting to get creepy.

No, what's creepy is the preoccupation about this particular topic. Today alone, I've commented on about half the Big East coaches and programs. Something gets raised that interests me, that I agree with, or disagree with, I post about it.

The reality is that one person/program gets discussed 50 times more than any other for some reason, and the things said about said person/program are akin half the time to Al Jazeera commenting on Israel's foreign policy, divorced from facts or reality (and Bud Boomer doesn't do that, so I'm NOT talking about him).

But yes, let's keep up the narrative and trolling someone who has been on here for a decade+, is a long time Trove member, was a fan before we went to the title game in 89, and actually pays money to attend games with his kids. We have so many fans, we can afford to push away yet another one.

 

[Bud Boomer]

I know you are stating your honest opinion. You haven't been infected with #PDS like others. I just disagree with it. I don't see how anyone can look at his body of work, including Naismith COY last year when he took a team picked 5th in the league to a historic season, as being tantamount to losing his fastball because they haven't met preseason expectations.

And I'll give an apples to apples example. Last year, UCONN was unanimously picked 1 in the Big East (more votes than SJU this year). UCONN was picked top 5 nationally preseason. UCONN has "Cadillac resources", as good a fan base as most anyone nationally. They own an entire state and are covered like the Yankees. Coming off 2 back-to-back national titles, UCONN truly has their "pick of the litter" and brings back some terrific players from the title teams, as well as solid rotation pieces.

Hurley goes 14-6 in a down year in the Big East. Not as bad as this year, but certainly not that good either. Some guys don't make the jump he thought. His big portal acquisition (Mahaney) is a total non-factor. Reed takes longer than he thought. The Diarra/Mahaney/Nowell combination at lead guard/point guard falls flat. Even Karaban has a down year for him.

Would you or anyone have said that Dan Hurley is "losing his fastball"? I certainly don't recall anyone saying that. If they did, I would have vehemently disagreed with it.

I mean, Danny has won 2 of the last 3 national championships, so no I would not say he's lost his fastball. Also, Danny Hurley isn't 73 years old. People tend to lose their fastball with age, particularly when the game they are coaching has evolved, and is continuing to evolve, into something that bears little resemblance to one that made Rick a superstar.

The guy is obviously a legend. One of the best to ever do it. I just think he doesn't have the chops (or maybe the drive or maybe both) to hack it with the top-flight coaches in college hoops anymore. I'm sure you aren't the only one who disagrees.

 

[dehere23]

I mean, Danny has won 2 of the last 3 national championships, so no I would not say he's lost his fastball. Also, Danny Hurley isn't 73 years old. People tend to lose their fastball with age, particularly when the game they are coaching has evolved, and is continuing to evolve, into something that bears little resemblance to one that made Rick a superstar.

The guy is obviously a legend. One of the best to ever do it. I just think he doesn't have the chops (or maybe the drive or maybe both) to hack it with the top-flight coaches in college hoops anymore. I'm sure you aren't the only one who disagrees.

I actually agree with your last point in that I don't think he is peak Kentucky/Louisville Pitino, nor can he be because of various factors, including age, the new landscape, and what those programs can be at their ceilings compared to where he is now. I still think he's better than most, and what he's done their to rebuild a program that was mediocre to bad for a long, long time is remarkable when you consider what he's accomplished in 3 years on and off the court (the latter being perhaps even more impressive).

 

[NIL BAD]

St Johns success is more due to Repole than Pitino.

It's going to take Creighton a few years to rebuild. So much of their recent success was built on Kalkbrenner's defense.

 

[joeyklings]

Says who?

I believe @Halldan posted the exact information from the big east website

 

[Gohall129]

If we finish 4-1 then Sha deserves to be in the conversation for COY. But 8 conference losses for COY is not reality