Carino: Seton Hall basketball: Budd Clark looks like a Big East floor general
- Thread starter hbkmyr
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Small correction. It's metered by the newspaper. That means some lucky readers will have access and the rest of us will not.
Unfortunately I am one of the unlucky ones. But for those that cannot read it I have been told that Jerry is very high on the team. Especially Clark. If we stay healthy it's going to be a fun year as long as we have reasonable expectations.
This Saturday at the school, we'll see more.
One player does not make for a winning season. Need 5 studs on the court at the same time. Plus hype on paper is just that. We shall see shortly how it all plays out and what is real and what is hype. We go through this every year at this time with lots of hope!
Encouraging. Jerry isnt going to blast us and he is surely not gonna blow smoke up our kazoo. Having a PG who wants to be in the middle of things and can do it will be huge, assuming Budd can handle the BE. I thnk he will.
Ever the ray of sunshine.
Are you really a Pirate fan, as you seem to take the worst position possible in every positive post?
Halldan,
There is nothing I said that is NOT true! Look at the posts made this time last year! Everyone was optimistic for the upcoming season. Lots of hype and hope all totally off the mark!
So Bud Clark looks like a BE floor general from what? Practice? That is simply hype at this point. No basis in reality.
There is nothing I said that is NOT true! Look at the posts made this time last year! Everyone was optimistic for the upcoming season. Lots of hype and hope all totally off the mark!
So Bud Clark looks like a BE floor general from what? Practice? That is simply hype at this point. No basis in reality.
He's not Sha or Barrett. Probably not Theodore either. But he's a least in their class. Maybe I would call him a poor man's version.
Regarding Richmond...different kind of player. More suited to what Holloway wants in a PG. But again he's not Richmond.
Jerry saw what I saw and posted on the Trove 10 days ago. The team is very athletic and will run, run, run.
What Jerry did see that I did not was the players shot much better from the arc and did so in the flow of the offense.
Now, that's more reasonable than saying we have to surround him with 4 more studs.
This team is much better than last season, but again that's not saying much. We will not finish last, count on that. My guess is between 6-9. 6th if everything goes perfectly and lower if it doesn't.
Pat from the little I saw and talking to Jerry, I think he might be. The question to max his potential is how well the players surrounding him are.
That would be amazing. IMHO NuNu is the most underrated PG we've had since I started paying attention in like 93-94
I would be surprised if Clark isn’t better than Harvey, who was talented but too limited to be an effective BE lead guard. Interestingly, I think the guy who Budd will most resemble is Harvey’s eventually replacement. Jordan Theodore.
This is very encouraging for me, especially the flow of the offense because we did not get to see that last weekend with the play being blown dead after nearly every shot which I think contributed to the bad 3 point shooting we all saw.
Halldan you are now on record that SHU will finish between 6-9 in BE. But then the caveat from you that happens if everything goes perfect. The thing is everything going perfect if wishful thinking. It seldom does. Injuries happen. Players are not up to BE standards. The other teams are better than expected etc..
I have no idea where they will finish and until I see actual games I have them listed as last place. That is the starting point where they left off last season. To move the needle up they have to show something. Practice does NOT count. Real games count. No one even Sha has any idea where this team will land until there are real games with real competition.
I have no idea where they will finish and until I see actual games I have them listed as last place. That is the starting point where they left off last season. To move the needle up they have to show something. Practice does NOT count. Real games count. No one even Sha has any idea where this team will land until there are real games with real competition.
Totally different players. Jordan was tough as nails but not athletic or as quick as Clark. Who is a blur. But Jordan should not have been as good as he was given his physical attributes. He was one of my favs.
One thing about him (Harvey) that amazed me. He had a worse shot than me. He was not a leaper. And he had the moxey and guile to get to and finish at the rim his whole career. The other coach told the guy guarding him to ignore the shot and dont let that that mofo drive, and he drove all day long.
He had great passing instincts and vision and he was a real good finisher at the rim for his size too.
3rd all time in assists at SHU with 576, and tied for 4th in a game with 14.
He's also 7th all time in steals with 203 and had 7 on one game putting him #8 for single game.
I can't read the article, so for someone interested, where does Jerry have this team finishing. I assume "very high" means contending for the top half, or does "very high" mean better than last year, but more likely somewhere in the bottom half.
Saying you need 5 studs to win is an extreme take.
The beauty of college basketball is that *one* stud can carry a team. There are countless examples of good teams that fit this model.
The beauty of college basketball is that *one* stud can carry a team. There are countless examples of good teams that fit this model.
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No, he believes they are a second tier team, but much, much better than last season. Probably in the 7-9 area.
I can see that given the makeup of the BE this year and if Clark is as good as everyone seems to be saying.
Jerry liked Clark a lot after seeing him dominate the RU game last year as he saw him clearly outplay Harper. He raved to me at that time about Clark. And who knew Clark would end up here? So this had nothing to do with SHU bias.
Now, as good as I believe Clark is, we have to rein in expectations a bit. This still is a team game, so he will have to rely on them to maximize his game..
Yesterday he and Hines had it going so Jerry saw the best that the Pirates could be.
Similar to my watching Richmond and Dawes early a couple of years ago and said at the time they just could be the best guard combo in the Big East and one of the best in the country. They played that well for those 2 hours.
Eventually Dawes starting playing as I saw him that day and with Richmond they were indeed a very, very strong backcourt.
Now, as good as I believe Clark is, we have to rein in expectations a bit. This still is a team game, so he will have to rely on them to maximize his game..
Yesterday he and Hines had it going so Jerry saw the best that the Pirates could be.
Similar to my watching Richmond and Dawes early a couple of years ago and said at the time they just could be the best guard combo in the Big East and one of the best in the country. They played that well for those 2 hours.
Eventually Dawes starting playing as I saw him that day and with Richmond they were indeed a very, very strong backcourt.
You want to tell me where 1 stud carried a team? Which team was that?
I recall you saying that before 2023-2024 about Richmond and Dawes. I likewise recall thinking you were a bit optimistic in that projection.
I think you were more “right” than I was on the Dawes-Richmond projection because I hadn’t seen Kadary or Dawes put together the type of complete, sustained season that would put them on the level you projected. They along with Dre became the core of a NCAA bubble team, and I wasn’t sure they could do that over the course of a year.
That said, I don’t think they were anywhere close to the best backcourt in the country. Or that they were even in the upper-shelf of the Big East. Going from memory, I’d put that backcourt combo behind the UConn, Marquette and Creighton groups for sure. We were probably on the next tier on the Big East along with fellow bubble teams like SJU or even a Xavier that had strong guard play that season.
I’m glad about what you said about re: Clark, because it’s never good on here long term when the hype train starts to get out of control.
Well it certainly wasn't Pistol Pete. Or Calvin Murphy. Or Nick Werkman. Just to name a few fossils from my day.
He has Seton Hall ranked 9th in his preseason Big East rankings.
If Clark is all that, that's doable. Be really tough but not impossible to be much higher than that.
Guys - having seen Clark play in person multiple times at Sacred Heart and Fairfield. The dude can flat out ball. He has the "it" factor. I may eat my words, but I see him as a tremendous talent and leader this year. He will be in the Theodore and Harvey level in Year One.
Everyone, could be spot on about Clark. He might also play at a level comparable to Harvey or Theodore. Both of those players were on teams that challenged for an NCAA bid, being squarely in the bubble conversation.
Not saying you have to have 5 studs…but
Harvey Supporting Cast: 2009-10 season
Jeremy Hazell
Herb Pope
Robert Mitchel
Jeff Robinson
Jamel Jackson
John Garcia
Jordan Theodore
Keon Lawrence
Theodore Supporting Cast: 2011-12 season
Herb Pope
Fuquan Edwin
Patrik Auda
Brandon Mobley
Aaron Cosby
2011-12 team wasn’t as deep as the team under Harvey.
But there is nothing about the current supporting cast of the 2025-26 roster that makes you believe Budd Clark can carry a team to have a .500 type record in the BE.
You can get as hyped as you want about an individual player, but the question marks surrounding the rest of this roster still has it as a bottom third finisher in the conference if you are realistically projecting where they finish.
Not saying you have to have 5 studs…but
Harvey Supporting Cast: 2009-10 season
Jeremy Hazell
Herb Pope
Robert Mitchel
Jeff Robinson
Jamel Jackson
John Garcia
Jordan Theodore
Keon Lawrence
Theodore Supporting Cast: 2011-12 season
Herb Pope
Fuquan Edwin
Patrik Auda
Brandon Mobley
Aaron Cosby
2011-12 team wasn’t as deep as the team under Harvey.
But there is nothing about the current supporting cast of the 2025-26 roster that makes you believe Budd Clark can carry a team to have a .500 type record in the BE.
You can get as hyped as you want about an individual player, but the question marks surrounding the rest of this roster still has it as a bottom third finisher in the conference if you are realistically projecting where they finish.
Seton Hall with Kadary Richmond is a pretty recent example.
This aside, are we going to get a few periodic podcasts from the Left Coast again this season?
Frankly they helped at least me, get thru a tough season last year, and I truly enjoy your banter back and forth
Season preview is definitely in the works.
Will most likely stick to our format from last year, where we drop an episode throughout segments of the season. Just don’t have the capacity to do it weekly anymore.
That prediction came out before he saw the team. He's a little more optimistic now.
The Powell team in 2018-19 is a pretty good example. They weren't bereft of talent but they weren't winning much without Powell.
And that team was not heavily experienced since the Carrington, Delgado, Rodriguez, Sanogo class had graduated.
If you want five studs, I'd suggest changing your allegiance to Duke, Kansas or someone similar.
That’s the example I thought of for a guy who carried their team into the postseason. Albeit a first round loss to Wofford.
it was an arguable rebuild year because of everything that went out the door. Still you had Q as a junior coming in as a transfer from a level he excelled at, Ike coming from FSU, Nzei as a senior who showed he could at least play a power spot in the Big East, Cale as a sophomore, Sandro as a sophomore and others. Most of that group probably starts on this team, even if you take out Powell.