Coaching change: It maybe wise to wait another year.

[Bamm Bamm Rubble]

I said it. :grimace: Trust me, I didn't want to. Trust me, it's this is not where my madness stops. There are far too many openings and too many schools to compete with right now. We've got a lot of options but little money to work with. I don't want to see The Block R scraping the bottom or the barrel for anything.

Rutgers can get very lucky this year and hire Scott Frost at a cheap rate and while his value has cooled. Rutgers can hire a football savvy and self made millionaire Joe Moglia, that'll hire a great staff and help the school raise money. Or Rutgers can go for a home run hire, empty the tank and chase Chip Kelly.

I'm afraid to give Flood another year. I fear that Coach Flood is an average coach at best (with a talented under achieving staff) and he's due for a big year. The administration could treat that same big year as if it's 06 all over again. The Rutgers fans will be stuck with an average coach for another 4 years. I don't want average... I want to dominance.

 

[RUns_w/scissors]

I want to dominance.

I want to dominance also! I put them on my Christmas list.

I read something the other day that said that the number of head coach openings this year is not really unusual, it's just that a higher number of them were opened during the season and not after. I'm one of the majority who has no idea if Flood is staying or going but I'm hoping that the decision wouldn't be made based on the number of other job openings and competition for filling our vacancy.

 

[RUsilencer]

He has to go this year for many reasons.

1. After the suspension and all off field issues, what explanation can you give to donors and season ticket holders for his return upon a 4-8 record?

2. The amount of revenue that will be lost next year will pale in comparison to the cost of changing the staff. If the administration keeps him they are sending a message that not being competitive is ok. Running a flawed and lawless program is ok so long as you are doing it on the cheap. We have not run a clean or competitive program these last few years. We have beaten less than 5 times in 4 years with winning records.

3. It is not going to get any better next year with this staff. Forget the loss of Carroo. The preparation, fundamentals and technique of this team are down right dreadful. So what will the excuse about the secondary be next year? They are all sophs and young?

I can give you 10 more points but will stop here. Just remember this. 15 years ago the RAC was almost sold out every game. Now less than 3000 show up. The same will happen on the Busch Campus and that bond for expansion wont pay itself.

 

[MozRU]

I've thought about this for awhile. Flood has to go NOW. But with the lack of funds, why sign a hack for 5yr? Put Norries Willson in as a coach for 1yr (or two). It can't get worse for us. State that RU needs to wait for B1G funds to start rolling in before it can compete.

Hey, grab a little compassion from the country. At least they will understand and recognize we at least have a plan and are being proactive and not "content with a clown as a coach."

I am serious about this is plan that I laid out.

 

[lighty]

Why do people think better coaches or more options will be available next year?

There always are a lot of jobs open each year. The difference is schools firing people midseason and before their final games.

Waiting does not save any money does it?

 

[MikeRU09]

I want to dominance also! I put them on my Christmas list.

I read something the other day that said that the number of head coach openings this year is not really unusual, it's just that a higher number of them were opened during the season and not after. I'm one of the majority who has no idea if Flood is staying or going but I'm hoping that the decision wouldn't be made based on the number of other job openings and competition for filling our vacancy.

Why wait? Let a bunch of new staffs get locked in to contracts? pull the trigger now! No one will come to work for a lame duck coach!

 

[MozRU]

Why do people think better coaches or more options will be available next year?

There always are a lot of jobs open each year. The difference is schools firing people midseason and before their final games.

Waiting does not save any money does it?

This is by far the most vacancies we have ever seen and the season isn't over yet.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

1. The guy who follows this stuff here (@rutgersguy1 ) has repeatedly said that there are not "more openings than usual" this year. This year is average.

2. Who is to say an entirely new bunch of schools are not looking next year? You can't retain an employee because you are trying to time the candidate market.

3. If you are the BOG, you either think you have an attractive situation to sell a candidate or you don't.

4. Financially, the revenue lost will greatly exceed the money saved by keeping him. Take a look around the stands Saturday, especially if it rains, for confirmation of that.

 

[lighty]

This is by far the most vacancies we have ever seen and the season isn't over yet.

It could wind up being but it's not the most as of now.

 

[G- RUnit]

Or just hire Schiano back or even get a great recruitor and proven winner like Wanny and start anew ASAP.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Cut the cord Sunday/Monday.

 

[RU#1fan]

He has to go this year for many reasons.

1. After the suspension and all off field issues, what explanation can you give to donors and season ticket holders for his return upon a 4-8 record?

2. The amount of revenue that will be lost next year will pale in comparison to the cost of changing the staff. If the administration keeps him they are sending a message that not being competitive is ok. Running a flawed and lawless program is ok so long as you are doing it on the cheap. We have not run a clean or competitive program these last few years. We have beaten less than 5 times in 4 years with winning records.

3. It is not going to get any better next year with this staff. Forget the loss of Carroo. The preparation, fundamentals and technique of this team are down right dreadful. So what will the excuse about the secondary be next year? They are all sophs and young?

I can give you 10 more points but will stop here. Just remember this. 15 years ago the RAC was almost sold out every game. Now less than 3000 show up. The same will happen on the Busch Campus and that bond for expansion wont pay itself.

This. If Fudd is retained RU will be in a bigger Financial hole and the Program will be set back a further year. It will took longer to recover and the fanbase will be further disenfranchised going forward. Next year will be g-d awful with Elmer being the Coach and RU having a 3 win season in front of 25,000 fans at High Point Solution Stadium.

 

[lighty]

If you haven't read it, check out this article. http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...an-florida-st-fisher-coaching-carousel-112215

There's about 50 coaches listed - all would be upgrades from Flood.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

1. The guy who follows this stuff here (@rutgersguy1 ) has repeatedly said that there are not "more openings than usual" this year. This year is average.

2. Who is to say an entirely new bunch of schools are not looking next year? You can't retain an employee because you are trying to time the candidate market.

3. If you are the BOG, you either think you have an attractive situation to sell a candidate or you don't.

4. Financially, the revenue lost will greatly exceed the money saved by keeping him. Take a look around the stands Saturday, especially if it rains, for confirmation of that.

I repeat things here many times but it always seems to take awhile to seep into the full board's consciousness. But it's hundreds even a thousand people so I get it, lol. Agree with what you wrote.

Actually I was like everyone else at first, it was @sherrane that alerted me to the fact that it isn't all that unusual. So as I do I tried to look it up to see if I could verify it and he was right. Back to 2001 17 was the high once and 4 was the low twice. Most years were around 11-13. Last couple years were towards the lower end with 7.

With a couple of these larger programs like LSU possibly opening, I do think this year could reach that high end, maybe towards that 17 even with trickle down effects from larger programs if everything fell into place. Regardless, you can't let unpredictable what ifs dictate to you. You do your due diligence, come to a conclusion and then take the appropriate course of action.

Here's the link to the place where I counted up the P5 openings each year and the the thread from late October discussing it, page 4 on the thread has the appropriate posts.

http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/coaching_changes.html

http://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/not-the-year-to-be-looking-for-a-coach.43922/page-4

 

[kupuna133]

I've thought about this for awhile. Flood has to go NOW. But with the lack of funds, why sign a hack for 5yr? Put Norries Willson in as a coach for 1yr (or two). It can't get worse for us. State that RU needs to wait for B1G funds to start rolling in before it can compete.

Hey, grab a little compassion from the country. At least they will understand and recognize we at least have a plan and are being proactive and not "content with a clown as a coach."

I am serious about this is plan that I laid out.

This is genius. Continue to reward incompetence. This is the exact plan that got us in the mess in the first place. If I am a recruit or a recruits parent I would run for the hills if this is the message from the University.

What about the kids that are already in the program? What does the wait and see approach show them? They are expendable and their success is not a priority.

 

[MoobyCow]

This is by far the most vacancies we have ever seen and the season isn't over yet.

That is simply, flatly untrue. All this is just the normal thinking at RU and why we can't have nice things. We're scared of damn near everything.

 

[j10oreo]

Truth is, as many coach openings there are this offseason, there's no guarantee we won't see the same thing next year in terms of vacancies.

 

[derleider]

I said it. :grimace: Trust me, I didn't want to. Trust me, it's this is not where my madness stops. There are far too many openings and too many schools to compete with right now. We've got a lot of options but little money to work with. I don't want to see The Block R scraping the bottom or the barrel for anything.

Rutgers can get very lucky this year and hire Scott Frost at a cheap rate and while his value has cooled. Rutgers can hire a football savvy and self made millionaire Joe Moglia, that'll hire a great staff and help the school raise money. Or Rutgers can go for a home run hire, empty the tank and chase Chip Kelly.

I'm afraid to give Flood another year. I fear that Coach Flood is an average coach at best (with a talented under achieving staff) and he's due for a big year. The administration could treat that same big year as if it's 06 all over again. The Rutgers fans will be stuck with an average coach for another 4 years. I don't want average... I want to dominance.

Its not.

Heres why

Lets say there are 10 good coaches this year. In a normal year maybe 6 of them get hired, and 4 more on to next year. Instead, this year, all 10 will be hired, then 3-4 not so great coaches.

But coaches don't just magically appear. If a coach is available next year, but not this year, its likely because he's a flash in the pan - a MAC coach who was alright this year (or even bad) and gets hot next year. A coordinator who suddenly has the hottest offense in the sport. And we dont want those guys.

So either we overpay this year before all of the good coaches go off the market, or we over pay next year for a less desirable coach.

By the way - how has Coastal Carolina's fundraising been under Moglia? I assume its gone up alot since this board is convinced the guy is just going to have people dumping money on us if we give him the privilege of being a P5 coach.

Stop with the Chip Kelly. Thats nonsense. If we empty the tank it wont matter, because other teams have bigger tanks.

 

[NickKnight 1]

This is genius. Continue to reward incompetence. This is the exact plan that got us in the mess in the first place. If I am a recruit or a recruits parent I would run for the hills if this is the message from the University.

What about the kids that are already in the program? What does the wait and see approach show them? They are expendable and their success is not a priority.

Yes, Like the parents who fly in from California just to see there kid (QB) and gets one set of downs
in mop up. Wow can't you just imagine what Rettig's parents must feel about the decision
to come to Rutgers. We can not go another year like this no way.

 

[RU1977]

He's not going anywhere....

 

[RUfinal4]

I doubt Julie would be able to do this on the down low but maybe she should have unofficial conversations with representatives for Chip Kelly, Greg Schiano, Rob Ryan, or anyone else on the so called dream list to see if they would be interested in Rutgers and would kind of money they would look for if interested. This way Julie can make an informed decision on Flood based on who the replacement potentially can be and the finances behind it.

The worst thing to do would be to fire Flood without knowledge of the potential replacements and their costs. This may lead to firing Flood and eating $1.4 mil in his buyout only to have to pay $3 mil for a proven coach or $1.5 mil for a coordinator but not the top 2-3 available coordinators but more of a top 8 to 10 available coordinator.


Top Coordinators from Oct:
http://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-top-10-coordinators-rise-2015

 

[ruhudsonfan]

ROB RYAN?

You just picked the ONE GUY IN AMERICA I would take Flood over...

 

[DHajekRC84]

Actually I was like everyone else at first, it was @sherrane that alerted me to the fact that it isn't all that unusual. So as I do I tried to look it up to see if I could verify it and he was right. Back to 2001 17 was the high once and 4 was the low twice. Most years were around 11-13. Last couple years were towards the lower end with 7.

I think the difference (and no, have not fact checked and wouldn't know how) is how early these openings have happened and the number of High Quality positions open. So perhaps not so much a quantity thing but much more of a quality thing?

Then again RU is not competing with the top but more the Cuse, Maryland level.

 

[derleider]

I think the difference (and no, have not fact checked and wouldn't know how) is how early these openings have happened and the number of High Quality positions open. So perhaps not so much a quantity thing but much more of a quality thing?

Then again RU is not competing with the top but more the Cuse, Maryland level.

The top jobs are a blessing in disguise. They INCREASE the chance that we will get a better coach.

For example - LSU fires Les Miles. VT hires Les Miles. LSU probably doesnt hire a coach RU was going to get - they will go after say an NFL guy - someone above RUs level. So now VT is off the table. LSU is off the table. Coach X has one fewer choice before getting to RU. Same with Strong and Richt were they to get fired.

Realistically - we arent getting a substantially better coach next year than this year. But in the meantime our fan base will drop off, costing us far more than the extra cost of buying a coach in a hot market.

 

[brodo_rivals]

... Put Norries Willson in as a coach for 1yr (or two). It can't get worse for us....

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[DHajekRC84]

The top jobs are a blessing in disguise. They INCREASE the chance that we will get a better coach.

For example - LSU fires Les Miles. VT hires Les Miles. LSU probably doesnt hire a coach RU was going to get - they will go after say an NFL guy - someone above RUs level. So now VT is off the table. LSU is off the table. Coach X has one fewer choice before getting to RU. Same with Strong and Richt were they to get fired.

interesting POV...works for me.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

I think the difference (and no, have not fact checked and wouldn't know how) is how early these openings have happened and the number of High Quality positions open. So perhaps not so much a quantity thing but much more of a quality thing?

Then again RU is not competing with the top but more the Cuse, Maryland level.

That's what I've said. The in season movement is the only difference and makes it seem like more up til now.

Now with LSU opening and possible domino to FSU and then possibly Georgia being open, that could cause a ripple effect to shoot at that high end of 17 P5 openings but as of now I think it's 10 and Minnesota has already filled theirs.

Minnesota - Tracy Claeys (filled)
USC, South Carolina, Mizzou, Miami, VT, Maryland, Illinois, Syracuse, Iowa State (open)

possibles (UVA, Georgia, LSU, Rutgers)

So right now 10 openings with a possible of 14 and then add a 2-3 for trickle down effect. So like I said the high end of 17 is in reach with everything falling into place.

But out of these who are really our peers and will be true competition for candidates?

Illinois, Syracuse, ISU, UVA you could throw in Miami, Mizzou, Maryland, VT if you want but I tend to think their won't be too much overlap there.

So really we're competing with anywhere from 4-8 other schools for candidates. That's not so bad to me.

 

[rutgersguy1_rivals]

The top jobs are a blessing in disguise. They INCREASE the chance that we will get a better coach.

For example - LSU fires Les Miles. VT hires Les Miles. LSU probably doesnt hire a coach RU was going to get - they will go after say an NFL guy - someone above RUs level. So now VT is off the table. LSU is off the table. Coach X has one fewer choice before getting to RU. Same with Strong and Richt were they to get fired.

Realistically - we arent getting a substantially better coach next year than this year. But in the meantime our fan base will drop off, costing us far more than the extra cost of buying a coach in a hot market.

Well if it plays out like that, it's one way to look at it. But I could just as easily see Miles or Richt take the year off so you could get the trickle down effect without filling openings with the guys who were just fired.

 

[RUClassof67]

The top jobs are a blessing in disguise. They INCREASE the chance that we will get a better coach.

For example - LSU fires Les Miles. VT hires Les Miles. LSU probably doesnt hire a coach RU was going to get - they will go after say an NFL guy - someone above RUs level. So now VT is off the table. LSU is off the table. Coach X has one fewer choice before getting to RU. Same with Strong and Richt were they to get fired.

Realistically - we arent getting a substantially better coach next year than this year. But in the meantime our fan base will drop off, costing us far more than the extra cost of buying a coach in a hot market.

Sort of like a Ponzi scheme. Hey wait! Is Bernie Madoff available?

 

[scarletKNIGHT07]

I posted this in another thread. Tried to summarize some of the rumors out there along with some logical guesses.

Current openings

USC - whittingham / Chip Kelly / frost / NFL dude / Brian Kelly
South Carolina - Herman / rich Rod / dantonio / fuente / Campbell / doc Holliday / holgerson / Brohm
Missouri - babers / fuente / campbell / Brohm / internal
Miami - butch Davis / cristobal / schiano / Richt / doc Holliday
Virginia tech - bud foster / Venables / doc Holliday / Kirby smart / Schiano / dan Mullen / Larry Fedora
Maryland - bill obrien / chip Kelly / les miles / doc holliday / Babers / Brohm / frost / Rhule
Illinois - fleck / Carey / Schiano / Todd Monken
Syracuse - Mike Sanford / orgeron / Edsall / kiffin / golden / Schiano
Iowa state - frost / Meacham / Brohm / ash / option guy / Monken / Lincoln Riley
UCF - Geoff Collins / kiffin / Brohm / strong / Schiano / doc Holliday
Hawaii - Ken Niumatutolo / June Jones / Aranda
North Texas - Kendal Briles

Will probably be open and backfilled by P5 coordinators or top FBS guys.

Houston - Sonny Dykes/ Major Applewhite/ Kendal Briles / Lincoln Riley / Meacham
Memphis - Barry Odom
Temple - Jedd Fisch
Toledo -
Bowling Green - DJ Durkin
Western Kentucky -
NIU -


Not open yet
Alabama - if Saban leaves for NFL or Texas
Texas a&m - if Sumlin leaves for NFL
Stanford - if Shaw leaves for NFL
LSU - chip Kelly / Herman / Jimbo fisher
Georgia - obrien / Fuente / Kirby smart / Dan Mullen
Texas - Saban / Herman / chip Kelly / brian kelly / Gary Patterson
Miss State - ?? Todd Monken / SEC coordinator
Arizona - Aranda / norvell / frost / sonny dykes
Utah - Aranda / norvell / frost
Colorado - Bob Stitt
Virginia - Rhule / Al Golden
WVU - doc Holliday
Kansas State - Venables
Penn State - Rhule

Names for next year (or this year) Brohl, lance leipold, bob stitt, Willie Fritz.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Here is my question for those with a better understanding of the finances...
Flood stays and we pay him and his staff about 4mil and lose 3-4mil in revenue.
Let him go and have to pay out about 2mil in buyout(though, maybe not if our booster lives up to his word and or the investigation gives us cause)
Why not drop big bucks and a coach and staff(let's say 5.5-6mil for all. We end up not losing the 3-4mil in revenue and actually the excitement brings in more fans.
For the life of me, I can't figure out any business reason not to make this investment now.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

State that RU needs to wait for B1G funds to start rolling in before it can compete.

???? you are joking right ??? please let this be sarcasm ...
- so, until the B1G $$$ comes in, why not just call them "exhibition games" ??

Unfortunately it seems that there is a lot of the 'we can't compete yet' attitude surrounding the program already - that ... and the plodding vision-less Tao of Flood
... and while in a very pure analytical analysis, it is true that the B1G funds will be a huge financial boost, if the dismal mentality lingers, the B1G funds will make little difference in the W-L record - Purdue & others have been getting a full share ... and while more $$$ is better than less $$$, it is the leadership of the coaching staff that will get things rolling.

In many ways, if RU is waiting for B1G $$$ before making a major coaching change, it may be that RU is just waiting until it can make a really, really, really expensive mistake. No matter how long RU waits, there will always be a handful of coaches who would be a super fantastic match and one or two who could become legendary at RU - and there will be a huge number who will perform like crap and cause no end of agony - the challenge is sorting them out - and huge $$$ does not always provide the answer. Yes, more $$$ will enable the hiring of a staff with a longer resume - but there are no guarantees of success.
The real difference will be when the right match is found - and it is abundantly clear that Flood is not that match... so, time to make a move ...

 

[MoobyCow]

Here is my question for those with a better understanding of the finances...
Flood stays and we pay him and his staff about 4mil and lose 3-4mil in revenue.
Let him go and have to pay out about 2mil in buyout(though, maybe not if our booster lives up to his word and or the investigation gives us cause)
Why not drop big bucks and a coach and staff(let's say 5.5-6mil for all. We end up not losing the 3-4mil in revenue and actually the excitement brings in more fans.
For the life of me, I can't figure out any business reason not to make this investment now.

Neither can anyone else. A big name, means big ticket sales, bigger donations, more 'free' advertising for the school on sports programs... It is a no brainer. The problem is our BOG is scared of spending the money because, what if the new coach highly paid coach fails? We are a very, very risk adverse university, and our sports programs are exactly what you get when you are scared to invest.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I've thought about this for awhile. Flood has to go NOW. But with the lack of funds, why sign a hack for 5yr? Put Norries Willson in as a coach for 1yr (or two). It can't get worse for us. State that RU needs to wait for B1G funds to start rolling in before it can compete.

Hey, grab a little compassion from the country. At least they will understand and recognize we at least have a plan and are being proactive and not "content with a clown as a coach."

I am serious about this is plan that I laid out.

I am not saying this is the way to go, but it was my exact solution to basketball. Hire the assistant, david cox, to a 1-2 year deal. Let some of the stench go away and the hiring could be easier and the transition for the new coach easier.

This is a different situation though...PLUS the payment of the stadium.

 

[Pritz99]

Chip Kelly ?? Really?? You lost me there. Joe Moglia? Regardless of whether he's a good coach, he's 66!!! He'll be 71 coaching his first recruiting class of 5th year seniors! How is he going to recruit?

How's this for a weird idea: Schiano with Fleck as his OC? Greg's gotta have a lot of respect for him, maybe enough to hand over the offensive reins. Fleck's gotta like Schiano, has been mention for our HC vacancy and very well may like it here. Success can mean one of two things: schiano moves up and out in a couple of years (Fleck steps in); Fleck gets offered big time P5 HC job;

 

[MoobyCow]

I've thought about this for awhile. Flood has to go NOW. But with the lack of funds, why sign a hack for 5yr? Put Norries Willson in as a coach for 1yr (or two). It can't get worse for us. State that RU needs to wait for B1G funds to start rolling in before it can compete.

Hey, grab a little compassion from the country. At least they will understand and recognize we at least have a plan and are being proactive and not "content with a clown as a coach."

I am serious about this is plan that I laid out.

It could get worse. If we keep Flood you can at least make the argument that you think it was one bad year and he deserves a bit of time. It is transparent, but marginally defensible. If you hire Norries you have flat out signaled that, even though you know the program stinks, you are not going to invest any money in it and you're just going to sit back and wait a few years. It can't get worse? That is worse, no one in their right mind would come play fora school in that situation. We would be Kansas in two years.

 

[derleider]

Well if it plays out like that, it's one way to look at it. But I could just as easily see Miles or Richt take the year off so you could get the trickle down effect without filling openings with the guys who were just fired.

Its going to be a hot coaching market - those guys are going to get in while the cash is flowing.

 

[RU2055]

Yep, keep him one more year, so that we can change assistant coaches with longer contracts and Flood can get extended again. In Dec 2016, we can then claim it will be cheaper to get rid of him in 2017 and on and on and on ..... ground hog day at it's finest. The same exact GAME OF THRONES play in 2013 and people are buying it hook line and sinker. SMH.

 

[derleider]

It could get worse. If we keep Flood you can at least make the argument that you think it was one bad year and he deserves a bit of time. It is transparent, but marginally defensible. If you hire Norries you have flat out signaled that, even though you know the program stinks, you are not going to invest any money in it and you're just going to sit back and wait a few years. It can't get worse? That is worse, no one in their right mind would come play fora school in that situation. We would be Kansas in two years.

This is correcty. You think recruiting is bad now. Wait until we have NO head coach. Now instead of trying to find a coach to rebuild with at least marginal talent, you are taking about finding a coach to do a full out redo - top to bottom. Its not a good look.

 

[JMORC2003]

The best to fire Flood... Two years ago
The second best time to fire Flood? Now.