Do you agree with Jerry?
- Thread starter Halldan
- Start date
Absolutely not. I was just texting to friends last night that it is nice to see the "Madness" back in March.
It is bad enough with NIL and full-on transfers, but to basically rule out the mid majors (who the majors wont schedule now...imagine after they become totally irrelevant?) would cook the golden goose...in my opinion.
Now the football schools are already used to a "watered down" pool of teams to compete against, so their vision for whittling down the field isn't surprising...but that doesn't make it right for basketball.
This is the whole point behind all this BS...march Madness is an expensive pie, and it should be all ours. Think Don Ameche and Ralph Belamy and frozen OJ in Trading Places.
And they are damned sure that the fans of the schools whose balls were cut off will be dialing in, as they always have
And they are damned sure that the fans of the schools whose balls were cut off will be dialing in, as they always have
You’re right, of course. But I have a pretty strong feeling that if they do this, squeezing out good mid-major teams in favor of more crappy 16-15 SEC or Big Ten programs, I will not be tuning in, short of Seton Hall being there. I already know my attention wanes once all the Cinderella teams are out and the chances at true upsets have been eliminated. Then, I flip over to the Final Four and the championship while watching something else. And if I’m streaming, I’ll look in once that is over.
These guys will really kill the golden goose for missing the entire charm of this tournament. People will still watch, but it won’t grow it, since new fans — who often come to this through the George Masons, Butlers, and Loyola Chicagos — won’t see the same appeal.
Madness is back? Where? There were 2 out 32 games that were shocking upsets, HP and VCU. If they go home today we’re left with no mid majors other than Gonzaga. Yesterdays games were all chalk except the 9s beat the 8s
100000% with Jerry. The mid-majors make this fun and keep casual fans engaged with the Cinderella story. Happy Miami of Ohio and High Point won games. Happy Hofstra kept things interesting with Bama for a stint, and same with Akron and TT and Furman with UConn though I was obviously pulling for UConn in that one. Loved the VCU and St Louis outcomes (though I don’t consider either mid majors). Siena of course.
And unlike what happens in the football playoffs now, these mid majors can hang or win against big boys, at least sometimes.
And unlike what happens in the football playoffs now, these mid majors can hang or win against big boys, at least sometimes.
I agree and disagree. Everyone knows that the mid major winning is what everyone loved and got people talking for 40 years since it expanded to 64 teams. There's a good chance after today there's no mid majors left other than Gonzaga. Although the P4 people may say Gonzaga, SJU, and UConn. With that they've already eliminated the mid major in the new system. As long as these rules exist I'm ok with getting rid of the mid major because the rules have made it so it happens anyway. Now if someone comes back with any semblance of reasoning, logic or understanding on what's made this tournament great and players can't change schools every year, then the mid major becomes a must have.
Jerry is spot on and this is not new. The big 4 have been getting a bigger piece of the pie for a number of years. I would not be surprised if KenPom and the NET has big 4 bias as well. And you can define bias in a lot of ways if you get my drift.
I’m sure this isn’t a new idea. But how about having the mid major regular season conference champions get the bid. Not their conference tournament. That way they still get in but there’s no bid stealing.
Hard part is that would kill those conference tourneys to some degree if not entirely in some cases, and unless you expand the field (which I don’t like) you will have too many teams for too few slots if both the tourney winner and league winner got in.
The league winner is obviously more of a reflection of a teams strength and season than the tourney winner but those mid major tourney games generate lots of excitement because what’s at stake.
It's why I have this anger and hate towards what these football schools especially SEC since NIL has begun. Think about it does anyone in Alabama care for their now good basketball program? Lmao I actually feel for Nate Oats cause he seems he would be perfect fort a school like Nova, UNC, or Syracuse, basketball schools with real tradition and history unlike the forced success of football schools like Alabama, Texas A&M, etc. SEC, Big 12, and even Big 10 arrogantly putting 17-19 wins teams just because they beat like 1-2 top 20 teams and think them being like 6-7 wins in the conference shouldn't be a blackhole.
It's why I can't get over 2024. That was a true robbery cause how can a team go 13-7, beat the eventual champions and beat another ranked team in Marquette, easily get left off. All excuse about weak non-con and BE not being great, but we had three quality BE team along with us and St Johns in 2024.
SEC schools represent this soulless and fake pursuit for money over passion and integrity of that NCAA basketball used to have even with corruption.
F them and their arrogant football culture where college football is terrible quality while I can actually watch CBB and enjoy it as much as an NBA game even better many times.
They are trying to turn NCAA basketball into the joke glorified quality of NCAA football where top teams win 70-10 against trash football programs. And still F MWC. They wanted to force them cause that golden boy SDSU team the year prior and also they have their annoying football schools so they wanted to force their agenda and hurt Big east and mid tier conferences.
It's why I can't get over 2024. That was a true robbery cause how can a team go 13-7, beat the eventual champions and beat another ranked team in Marquette, easily get left off. All excuse about weak non-con and BE not being great, but we had three quality BE team along with us and St Johns in 2024.
SEC schools represent this soulless and fake pursuit for money over passion and integrity of that NCAA basketball used to have even with corruption.
F them and their arrogant football culture where college football is terrible quality while I can actually watch CBB and enjoy it as much as an NBA game even better many times.
They are trying to turn NCAA basketball into the joke glorified quality of NCAA football where top teams win 70-10 against trash football programs. And still F MWC. They wanted to force them cause that golden boy SDSU team the year prior and also they have their annoying football schools so they wanted to force their agenda and hurt Big east and mid tier conferences.
My wife cares about sports less than anyone I know. (She does ask about SH and the Dodgers.)
One time she came into the family room and asked me who won a game..."did St Peters win last night?" Not sure she knew the coach was a SH guy, but that story won her over.
We need more Jerrys and we need them with a bigger media reach.
yeah there were a few double digit seed winners, but there were also some great games, that even though the higher seed won, were great to watch ( ie Kentucky/Santa Clara).
But yes, could use another upset or two
I'd like to see more mid majors rather than #6 and #7 teams from the big conferences even if that hurts our chances.
Yes, This makes the whole season valuable. Not just league tournament The league fans will still support their
conference tournament. Tournament winners are important to the league fans, but season recognition should go
to the First place team of the season. This gives an incentive to thousands of student-athletes, their fans , boosters, and
their schools,
I like the conference tournament getting the bid that way you're giving 360 teams something to play for in late February and March. 200 or so teams will have nothing to play for come February 1 if the automatic bid goes the regular season champ.
How many uosets do expect? Theres a few every year but never many. However a few could have been major. Siena was very close. Santa clara if they just fouled would have been another
Agreed. Thats why im in favor of expanding tournament a bit. The mid major regular season champ should be in. Not just the conf champ
4 years ago there were 4 double digit seeds in the sweet 16. we have 4 in the second round.
Another theory I’ve read (albeit not one I’ve evaluated) is that “more accurate” seeding by committee (relying on efficiency metrics etc.) means fewer upsets.
Great way to justify it as a coach with elite money. And if you say it loud enough people might believe you. The real answer is you'd take a player in the past knowing full well he wouldn't be elite for 2 years. Now if you got money you let him go to a Seton Hall, then once they develop him you buy him away without a thank you or a Christmas card.
Confernces can choose to have the regular season champion or the conference tournament champions get the automatic bid. I like the season champions getting the bid . This way more of the best 38 at large teams get in. Hell no to the SEC. And the B10 has to be behind this too just like they want 24 teams on the CFP with mostly automatic bid for them.
Many mid major conference tournaments have nobody there and I bet dont make money. They even move early round games to campuses. MAAC moving around and A10 in Brooklyn was a joke. Now in football they do make a to of money but with CFP actually get in the way.
They don’t make any money from espn televising almost all these tournaments?
We barely have people at our games and we say we make money
After costs and no or low guarantees from the sites it could. I don't think the tournament airing are a separate media deal. The old A10 said nobody watched or went in AC when the Philadelphia schools were not in contention. And that was when teams like VCU and Temple were in the conference.
Jerry's correct. The upsets and potential for upsets are what makes the NCAAT great.
Would definitely like to see more very good mid-major teams rather than below .500 P4 teams. Would also like to see them more than below or near .500 low-level conference teams also.
I think there should be a distinction when the term Mid-Major is used. There are 31 D-1 Conferences and everyone besides the 5 Power Conferences is often lumped as "Mid-Major". The difference between the A-10 and the NEC is immense yet both are often labeled Mid-Majors. In reality A-10 is much closer to the SEC than they are to the bottom conferences.
I would like to see strong teams from true mid-major schools (like conferences 6 thru16) get in more but that has to come at the expense of other teams. I think you would have to make it harder for the very low D1 conference (the bottom 8-12 conferences). Force more of those conference championship teams to playoff in a First 4 type of environment against each other and/or more at-large teams from true mid-majors.
In 2024, Indiana State at 28-6 and #40 in KP should have gotten at least the same opportunity as a team like Wagner who was 13-15 with a KP of #311 in the regular season but won 3 games in the NEC Tournament to get a bid.
However, unless you change how the NET is calculated, how OOC scheduling is done or NCAAT selection criteria, you are likely to get more mediocre P5 teams if you expand the number of at-large bids. Have to change something so good teams from non-power conferences can improve how their resumes are viewed.
Would definitely like to see more very good mid-major teams rather than below .500 P4 teams. Would also like to see them more than below or near .500 low-level conference teams also.
I think there should be a distinction when the term Mid-Major is used. There are 31 D-1 Conferences and everyone besides the 5 Power Conferences is often lumped as "Mid-Major". The difference between the A-10 and the NEC is immense yet both are often labeled Mid-Majors. In reality A-10 is much closer to the SEC than they are to the bottom conferences.
I would like to see strong teams from true mid-major schools (like conferences 6 thru16) get in more but that has to come at the expense of other teams. I think you would have to make it harder for the very low D1 conference (the bottom 8-12 conferences). Force more of those conference championship teams to playoff in a First 4 type of environment against each other and/or more at-large teams from true mid-majors.
In 2024, Indiana State at 28-6 and #40 in KP should have gotten at least the same opportunity as a team like Wagner who was 13-15 with a KP of #311 in the regular season but won 3 games in the NEC Tournament to get a bid.
However, unless you change how the NET is calculated, how OOC scheduling is done or NCAAT selection criteria, you are likely to get more mediocre P5 teams if you expand the number of at-large bids. Have to change something so good teams from non-power conferences can improve how their resumes are viewed.
And this is why I’m ok with less mid majors in this transfer crazy era. 1 double digit seed in S16, no mid majors left and this is the new norm even though we all want the ncaa tournament to be as good as it once was.
There is no doubt the P4 wants to bury the BE. We are the only Conference that can consistently rival them on the floor and potentially "steal" the most money from them through NCAAT credits.
The Big East needs to fight for itself. Not only does Val need to be more vocal and tougher but the clowns we send to represent us on the NCAAT Committee have to be even tougher. Stop sending old ADs who are only thinking about their retirement and don't do anything to fight for the Conference.
This year it's Lee Reed from Georgetown. He's been AD for 17 years at GT and is in his mid-60s. He has 3 more years on his 5-year term so will be close to 70 when his term ends. How hard did he fight when the committee put our top 2 teams - both 30-win teams in the same friggin bracket out West?!?
Prior to Reed, 72-year old Butler AD Barry Collier served the last of his 5-year term in 2024 when Seton Hall was snubbed and the BE only got 3 bids. After serving on the Committee that year, Collier retired after 18 years as AD in April 2024. Was this good old boy battling for the Big East or counting down his last month until retirement?