FLO Rankings 12-9-2025 Ohio State #1

HikeNatParks

Senior
May 12, 2023
100
510
53
Less rankings related and more about lineup choice. On the corn board, I was astonished to learn that Kasak’s biggest fan anywhere may be Iowa’s self-anointed oracle of all wrestling knowledge, MSU158.
Guy seems either outraged or primed for a seizure over Duke supplanting Kasak. Calls Tyler a monster who would’ve destroyed the “thin as tissue” weight class. Figures PJ certainly can’t be as good after only beating Sealey 2-1. It vexes their wordy wizard, though clearly not enough to quiet him.
Guessing it’ll take Jan 16 in Carver to accomplish that. ;)
 

JoeBagobagels

Senior
Jun 24, 2025
501
610
92
Less rankings related and more about lineup choice. On the corn board, I was astonished to learn that Kasak’s biggest fan anywhere may be Iowa’s self-anointed oracle of all wrestling knowledge, MSU158.
Guy seems either outraged or primed for a seizure over Duke supplanting Kasak. Calls Tyler a monster who would’ve destroyed the “thin as tissue” weight class. Figures PJ certainly can’t be as good after only beating Sealey 2-1. It vexes their wordy wizard, though clearly not enough to quiet him.
Guessing it’ll take Jan 16 in Carver to accomplish that. ;)
I previously called him here Dr pedantic. I also pointed out the Cael Sanderson knows more about wrestling than him. I didn't even check to see his response, it's probably something retarded.
For whatever reason Penn State and their coaching staff decided that one should red shirt and the other should start this year. Duke of course is starting has five pins out of six matches and the other with medical forfeit. Duke was baby one match in his entire high school career, has won international titles and freestyle, and has beat multiple national championships and freestyle wrestling.

He is pretty good.
 
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SlipperyPete

All-American
May 11, 2021
413
6,892
93
I'd never given much thought to rankings until the early morning hours of silence during a brief bout of insomnia this week. I believed rankings were just something fans talked about, so I never paid much attention to them. When @Kozak said Flo's rankings were used by coaches to determine bids at the NCAA tournament, then I started looking deeper & realized how big of an effect rankings can have on wrestlers. Maybe that's why a rule was created to prevent certain things from being counted on a wrestler's individual season record?

If the NCAA wanted, or didn't care whether exhibition matches, matches against teammates, or the other specified matches counted on a wrestlers record, then there wouldn't be a rule specifically stating those matches should NOT be counted.

This isn't a PSU issue. These rankings affect every wrestler competing on every team. If Flo's rankings impact anything involving the NCAA tournament, then Flo doesn't have the authority to change or ignore the rules set forth by the NCAA.

Even though some wrestlers don't like wearing headgear, there's a reason it's required & a rule requiring its use. Wrestles can't choose to ignore that rule. Wrestlers comply with the rules or they're disqualified. There is no explanation they can provide to justify why the rules don't apply to them.

The manner in which Flo conducts its rankings is like a wrestler refusing to wear headgear. Explaining their current process doesn't address the fact that they're ignoring the rules set forth by the NCAA. It doesn't matter how logical their explanation is if their actions are illogical. If Flo's rankings deviate from the NCAA Rulesbook, then their rankings should be disqualified from use for anything involving the NCAA wrestling season.

@Kozak I've enjoyed reading your posts on this board & you seem like a sharp guy. A rule was created by the NCAA to prevent what you're doing from happening, but you continue along ignoring it's there. Everyone else involved in the sport has to follow the rules & so should you. There is nothing you can say that will justify operating outside of those rules.

Eliminate the problems within your ranking process & everything else will work itself out. The NCAA created rule 9.6.4 for a reason. When you ignore that rule you also ignore the reason why it was created. That disrespects the wrestlers affected & the administrators who put the time, effort & thought into crafting the rules. That disrespects the fans. Why should anyone respect your rankings when you can't even respect the rules set forth by the NCAA?

The solution to your problem hides in the places you're not looking. If you don't fix the core problems within your ranking process, the complaints will remain & you'll continue being disappointed by fans reactions. If you're in compliance with the rules & there are any complaints about your rankings, then you can simply state, "We don't make the rules, we just follow them, like everyone else. If you have a problem contact the NCAA."
 

El_Jefe

All-American
Oct 11, 2021
2,428
8,538
113
Less rankings related and more about lineup choice. On the corn board, I was astonished to learn that Kasak’s biggest fan anywhere may be Iowa’s self-anointed oracle of all wrestling knowledge, MSU158.
Guy seems either outraged or primed for a seizure over Duke supplanting Kasak. Calls Tyler a monster who would’ve destroyed the “thin as tissue” weight class. Figures PJ certainly can’t be as good after only beating Sealey 2-1. It vexes their wordy wizard, though clearly not enough to quiet him.
Guessing it’ll take Jan 16 in Carver to accomplish that. ;)
Somebody over there is about to get put back in his place.
 

Goggles Paisano

All-Conference
Feb 6, 2018
619
1,546
93
Has anyone thought that behind the closed doors of a boardroom somewhere at the Flo offices, they reached the consensus that provocative rankings best serve their business model and the thirst for clicks and controversy?

I think so.

This is all intentional, and getting the desired result. Smart marketing.

Short of an annual ranking of the ranking services (PS this doesn't exist) that might paint Flos expertise and accuracy in a poor light and expose them, their late season rankings will prove pretty accurate and all will be forgotten until next year when we start the cycle all over again.
 

Zacrissy

Sophomore
Feb 13, 2024
99
150
33
lillidahl dec bozakius 3-0
blaze dec Davino 6-0
Mendez mdec Ngao 6-4
SVN dec Stiles 9-4
Duke dec Cannon 12-4
Mitch mdec Paddy 16-4
Levi dec karchla 19-4
Rocco dec Fishback 22-4
Barr mdec Shumate 26-4
Feldman dec Cole 26-7

The best chances beyond that are Davino beating blaze would change the outcome to 23-10
maybe Bozakius could pull off an upset 20-13 would be the worst case scenario

i think a 23-10 score is very realistic and that is a very good Ohio State Team
The only realistic way Ohio State could even come close to winning:

125: Bouzakis 3-0
133: Davino 6-0
141: Mendez 10-0
149: SVN 10-3
157: Duke 10-6
165: Brink 10-10
174: Levi 10-13
184: Fishback 13-13
197: Barr 13-17
HWY: Feldman 17-17

A random pin by say Bouzakis or Mendez could realistically be about the only way there would be a chance, and that’s already on top of the chances of the upsets in those predictions happening as well.

There is also a realistic chance Paddy gets tech’d by Brink, Barr gets bonus at 197, Levi at ‘74.. and so on.

A 23-10 score like you predicted is a way more likely scenario/prediction then mine… that’s for certain and I can easily admit to as a Buckeye fan.
 

Kozak

Sophomore
Jul 1, 2025
31
143
33
Has anyone thought that behind the closed doors of a boardroom somewhere at the Flo offices, they reached the consensus that provocative rankings best serve their business model and the thirst for clicks and controversy?

I think so.

This is all intentional, and getting the desired result. Smart marketing.

Short of an annual ranking of the ranking services (PS this doesn't exist) that might paint Flos expertise and accuracy in a poor light and expose them, their late season rankings will prove pretty accurate and all will be forgotten until next year when we start the cycle all over again.
This is some incredible fan fiction lol

Here's how I do the rankings every week - Every Sunday night/Monday I insert every result in our ranking spreadsheet. That way I can quickly see where upsets occur and all the results are in one place. After that, I usually move wrestlers around based on results from the prior week. Then JD and I get in a room and talk through every change to double-check my work and "debate" any change that requires extra attention. Then I write up the explanations and publish them on the site. I've been doing this for 4 years and we've never involved anyone else in the process or even considered page views in setting a ranking. As I've mentioned, I didn't even know Penn State wouldn't be number 1 until after all of the individual weight classes were set.

@Kozak I've enjoyed reading your posts on this board & you seem like a sharp guy. A rule was created by the NCAA to prevent what you're doing from happening, but you continue along ignoring it's there. Everyone else involved in the sport has to follow the rules & so should you. There is nothing you can say that will justify operating outside of those rules.
You're referencing us dropping Lilledahl because he lost to Desmond? The loss doesn't affect Luke's record but it still happened, just like the all-star matches. They're a piece of data that can be used to analyze a wrestler. If Luke didn't lose to Dean Peterson, Sheldon Seymour, or Brendan McCrone last year, a loss to a teammate would mean little. But Lilledahl is right in the mix with everyone else at the top so he's not the "clear cut" number 1.
 

SlipperyPete

All-American
May 11, 2021
413
6,892
93
You're referencing us dropping Lilledahl because he lost to Desmond? The loss doesn't affect Luke's record but it still happened, just like the all-star matches. They're a piece of data that can be used to analyze a wrestler. If Luke didn't lose to Dean Peterson, Sheldon Seymour, or Brendan McCrone last year, a loss to a teammate would mean little. But Lilledahl is right in the mix with everyone else at the top so he's not the "clear cut" number 1.
No Jon, I'm referring to the fact that your ranking process includes matches the NCAA has determined shall not be counted. Those rankings apply to all wrestlers on all teams.

My post had nothing to do with PSU or any wrestler on their team. It was solely about the fact that you're ignoring rule 9.6.4.

If your rankings are just for fans, then it isn't an issue. But, if your rankings are being used to help determined bids or seeding at the NCAA tournament, then your rankings should comply with the rules set forth by the NCAA. That is what my post is about.

 
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donboy6499

Senior
Jun 9, 2025
554
941
93
No Jon, I'm referring to the fact that your ranking process includes matches the NCAA has determined shall not be counted. Those rankings apply to all wrestlers on all teams.

My post had nothing to do with PSU or any wrestler on their team. It was solely about the fact that you're ignoring rule 9.6.4.

If your rankings are just for fans, then it isn't an issue. But, if your rankings are being used to help determined bids or seeding at the NCAA tournament, then your rankings should comply with the rules set forth by the NCAA. That is what my post is about.

Exactly.

Either they matter or they don't matter. Jon believes they matter, and he's right. But then the rankings use criteria that are supposed to not matter.
 
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Efejle

Senior
Apr 30, 2023
443
946
93
Regarding Luke/Nate and Joe/PJ.... traditionally the matches between two Penn State wrestlers, are very very close, often overtime matches. This is due to the culture and the familiar nature of the team. Bartlett was forced to overtime by David Evans some time ago, and many many other examples. These rankings are using that against our starting guys this year. It will probably sort itself out eventually, but it might take until March because after all it is duck season right now. P.J. is supposed to wrestle the #5 guy this weekend... anyone else think that will actually happen?
 

El_Jefe

All-American
Oct 11, 2021
2,428
8,538
113
Exactly.

Either they matter or they don't matter. Jon believes they matter, and he's right. But then the rankings use criteria that are supposed to not matter.
How do Flo's rankings matter?

Maybe if the coaches (or their interns) are lazy and copy/paste Flo rankings into their own.

But otherwise there is no effect on NCAA seeding. It's purely for entertainment purposes.
 

Corby2

All-Conference
Jul 14, 2025
1,999
4,163
113
Kozak is not saying they take the flo rankings and use them 100% . He's saying in the past when 14 coaches ranked each weight most were lazy and looked at Flo and used those as a guidance to vote. That system has now changed and only a few coaches ranking each weight. They formed a committee for that. And for everyone crying about the rankings bonus points aren't figured and no one scores more of those then Penn st. And guys Penn St is ranked #1 in the dual rankings. It's December this board needs a Kleenex sponsor. See you guys next time I need to explain things 🤙

 

donboy6499

Senior
Jun 9, 2025
554
941
93
Kozak is not saying they take the flo rankings and use them 100% . He's saying in the past when 14 coaches ranked each weight most were lazy and looked at Flo and used those as a guidance to vote. That system has now changed and only a few coaches ranking each weight. They formed a committee for that. And for everyone crying about the rankings bonus points aren't figured and no one scores more of those then Penn st. And guys Penn St is ranked #1 in the dual rankings. It's December this board needs a Kleenex sponsor. See you guys next time I need to explain things 🤙



So do the coaches use it for their coaches rankings or not?

No offense but between Kozak saying one thing and you saying he didn't say what he said, it's clear as mud.
 

PSUbluTX

Senior
Feb 7, 2018
209
903
93
This is some incredible fan fiction lol

Here's how I do the rankings every week ...

Thx @Kozak, but we're going to need video evidence of your alleged process from start to finish. The board will then run the video through our AI deepfake analyzer to confirm the video is real and hasn't been manipulated or unduly influenced by third parties.

We'll then announce our findings on how much evidence of nefarious and sophisticated ranking shenanigans is really going on here.

Until then, please refrain from challenging our elaborate theories about how and why Flo is determined to do Penn State dirty.

Cordially,
The Wrestling Room Staff, Subcommittee for Investigation of Paranormal and Extraterrestrial Phenomena
 

SRATH

All-American
May 29, 2001
2,804
5,505
113
Rule 9-6-4 states "whereupon Iowa wrestlers complete in at least 9 bouts, there will be at least 6 stall warnings but no more than 4 takedowns. All other scoring of other matches, other teams and other nations is irrelevant and will be subject to arbitrary mathematical masturbation via algorithms no human could or should hope to understand."

To paraphrase Metallica: March, nothing else matters.
 

SlipperyPete

All-American
May 11, 2021
413
6,892
93
Kozak is not saying they take the flo rankings and use them 100% . He's saying in the past when 14 coaches ranked each weight most were lazy and looked at Flo and used those as a guidance to vote. That system has now changed and only a few coaches ranking each weight. They formed a committee for that. And for everyone crying about the rankings bonus points aren't figured and no one scores more of those then Penn st. And guys Penn St is ranked #1 in the dual rankings. It's December this board needs a Kleenex sponsor. See you guys next time I need to explain things 🤙

I think you missed the point. It doesn't matter how much or how many committee members are involved. My point was that rankings which deviate from the NCAA rules should not be use in any way during the bid or seeding process for the NCAA tournament. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 🤙
 

Corby2

All-Conference
Jul 14, 2025
1,999
4,163
113
I think you missed the point. It doesn't matter how much or how many committee members are involved. My point was that rankings which deviate from the NCAA rules should not be use in any way during the bid or seeding process for the NCAA tournament. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. 🤙
No rankings from any source are " officially used". We just know that coaches use them to look at. They changed the process from 14 coaches because coaches were asking others to help them. How do I know that because I have been asked to do so in the past. The committee now will all discuss them not like before when coaches just plugged them into a computer and they took the average. You can't explain the process because you don't know it 🤙.
 
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Cstroke

Senior
Feb 10, 2019
332
985
93
Kozak is not saying they take the flo rankings and use them 100% . He's saying in the past when 14 coaches ranked each weight most were lazy and looked at Flo and used those as a guidance to vote. That system has now changed and only a few coaches ranking each weight. They formed a committee for that. And for everyone crying about the rankings bonus points aren't figured and no one scores more of those then Penn st. And guys Penn St is ranked #1 in the dual rankings. It's December this board needs a Kleenex sponsor. See you guys next time I need to explain things 🤙

Check It Out Tim And Eric GIF
 

Goggles Paisano

All-Conference
Feb 6, 2018
619
1,546
93
This is some incredible fan fiction lol

Here's how I do the rankings every week - Every Sunday night/Monday I insert every result in our ranking spreadsheet. That way I can quickly see where upsets occur and all the results are in one place. After that, I usually move wrestlers around based on results from the prior week. Then JD and I get in a room and talk through every change to double-check my work and "debate" any change that requires extra attention. Then I write up the explanations and publish them on the site. I've been doing this for 4 years and we've never involved anyone else in the process or even considered page views in setting a ranking. As I've mentioned, I didn't even know Penn State wouldn't be number 1 until after all of the individual weight classes were set.


You're referencing us dropping Lilledahl because he lost to Desmond? The loss doesn't affect Luke's record but it still happened, just like the all-star matches. They're a piece of data that can be used to analyze a wrestler. If Luke didn't lose to Dean Peterson, Sheldon Seymour, or Brendan McCrone last year, a loss to a teammate would mean little. But Lilledahl is right in the mix with everyone else at the top so he's not the "clear cut" number 1.
I don't believe you

 
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SlipperyPete

All-American
May 11, 2021
413
6,892
93
No rankings from any source are " officially used". We just know that coaches use them to look at. They changed the process from 14 coaches because coaches were asking others to help them. How do I know that because I have been asked to do so in the past. The committee now will all discuss them not like before when coaches just plugged them into a computer and they took the average. You can't explain the process because you don't know it 🤙.
facepalm-really.gif
 

Coastal2

Freshman
Dec 19, 2025
23
79
13
Some people are so full of it their eyes are brown.

Flo doesn't take freestyle into consideration but then ranks Justin Rademacher in the top ten to start the year. Maybe it was his amazing 12-7 freshman year, maybe it was barely wrestling the next year as a redshirt. If he didn't have the impressive freestyle results, he's not even close to being ranked.

Then to claim that they are as pure as the driven snow and there are no shenanigans to get clicks if disengenious at best.
 

BeerLion

Senior
Oct 12, 2021
318
620
93
No rankings from any source are " officially used". We just know that coaches use them to look at. They changed the process from 14 coaches because coaches were asking others to help them. How do I know that because I have been asked to do so in the past. The committee now will all discuss them not like before when coaches just plugged them into a computer and they took the average. You can't explain the process because you don't know it 🤙.
 

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bdoncsecz

Redshirt
Feb 12, 2022
36
35
18
If the Flo algorithm / analysis concludes that the Earth is flat (equal to saying PSU is not #1), then there is something wrong w/ the Flo algorithm / analysis, not the Earth.
And while it all is meaningless, it just makes Flo look silly.
 
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Sportfan2017

Senior
Jun 28, 2017
132
458
63
Has anyone thought that behind the closed doors of a boardroom somewhere at the Flo offices, they reached the consensus that provocative rankings best serve their business model and the thirst for clicks and controversy?

I think so.

This is all intentional, and getting the desired result. Smart marketing.

Short of an annual ranking of the ranking services (PS this doesn't exist) that might paint Flos expertise and accuracy in a poor light and expose them, their late season rankings will prove pretty accurate and all will be forgotten until next year when we start the cycle all over again.
I really have no clue why so many people can't comprehend how and why FLO rates wrestlers like they do. FLO seems to feel the need to explain it ad nauseum because of the backlash from readers and listeners. They state quite clearly that their rankings are based on NCAA Folkstyle mat results....with very few exceptions. Rankings are VERY DIFFERENT that betting odds. It is simple: They do their rankings just like pretty much every sport does....including World Wrestling. There are ranking tournaments, and the world rankings are based on how you placed at those tournaments. There are always instances where everyone knows that the lower ranked guy is a heavy favorite.....but he didn't enter enough tournaments to earn the points. Golf: Tiger Woods was known to be a great golfer but wasn't ranked until he produced on the PGA tour. Amateur results don't count. Tennis: Same story...your ranking improves when you beat higher rated opponents. You don't get ranked based on expectations in most sports. Lyndsay Vonn just came out of retirement and won a World Slalom event......wasn't even ranked. NASCAR and open wheel have points systems. So do Golf and tennis. Rankings are VERY VERY DIFFERENT than betting odds. I guess Kozak just needs to type slower and use bigger Fonts :).
 
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Sportfan2017

Senior
Jun 28, 2017
132
458
63
If the Flo algorithm / analysis concludes that the Earth is flat (equal to saying PSU is not #1), then there is something wrong w/ the Flo algorithm / analysis, not the Earth.
And while it all is meaningless, it just makes Flo look silly.
The Earth was "Ranked" as being flat based on the available data at the time......until Eratosthenes used actual measured data to prove it wasn't. He proved it over 2000 years ago, yet there are many people who still argue it is flat. Measured data ....not expected data.....will almost certainly show that PSU is number ONE.......probably by tomorrow night.
 
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El_Jefe

All-American
Oct 11, 2021
2,428
8,538
113
Some people are so full of it their eyes are brown.

Flo doesn't take freestyle into consideration but then ranks Justin Rademacher in the top ten to start the year. Maybe it was his amazing 12-7 freshman year, maybe it was barely wrestling the next year as a redshirt. If he didn't have the impressive freestyle results, he's not even close to being ranked.

Then to claim that they are as pure as the driven snow and there are no shenanigans to get clicks if disengenious at best.
Rademacher was 15-11 in his FR year, but point taken. Then last year while shirting he beat Merrill.

Otherwise maybe it was a matter of who was left to be ranked.

Of the top 16 seeds last year, only 3 were active at 197 to begin the year: 6 Mac Stout, 15 Novak, and 16 Bates
9 graduated: 1 Cardenas, 2 Buchanan, 5 Beard, 8 Surber, 9 Braunagel, 10 Salazar, 11 Luke Stout, 13 Munoz, 14 Glazier
2 moved up to HWT: 3 Ferrari, 7 Voelker
2 were injured at the start of the year: 4 Barr, 12 Little

Berge replaced Glazier -- and was himself injured to start the year. Elam returned from injury/shirt, and Endene transferred in.

In terms of top returnees, let's swap out Bates (1-2 at nationals) for 20-seed McDanel (finished 8th).

So let's say Barr, Elam, Little, Berge, Endene, Stout, Novak, and McDanel all made Top 10 as the top 8 returnees. Who are the next 2 guys who should've been ranked Top 10 ahead of Rademacher? Merrill, who lost to him? Parker? Sasso? Bechtold?
 
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Wrestleknownothing

All-Conference
Oct 30, 2021
1,036
2,704
113
The Flo rankings are perfect.

It is the Flo scoring that is lacking.

Based on expected points, PSU is still in the pole position.

Barely.

 
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PUR158

Senior
Feb 11, 2025
230
766
93
Less rankings related and more about lineup choice. On the corn board, I was astonished to learn that Kasak’s biggest fan anywhere may be Iowa’s self-anointed oracle of all wrestling knowledge, MSU158.
Guy seems either outraged or primed for a seizure over Duke supplanting Kasak. Calls Tyler a monster who would’ve destroyed the “thin as tissue” weight class. Figures PJ certainly can’t be as good after only beating Sealey 2-1. It vexes their wordy wizard, though clearly not enough to quiet him.
Guessing it’ll take Jan 16 in Carver
to accomplish that. ;)
As a professional cloud yeller, nothing quiets my brother MSU. I will head over there to gas him up a bit, it is good to get his contradictions on record, when called out on them later...that is when he is at his prime.
 

jstross

Sophomore
Oct 28, 2005
84
174
33
Less rankings related and more about lineup choice. On the corn board, I was astonished to learn that Kasak’s biggest fan anywhere may be Iowa’s self-anointed oracle of all wrestling knowledge, MSU158.
Guy seems either outraged or primed for a seizure over Duke supplanting Kasak. Calls Tyler a monster who would’ve destroyed the “thin as tissue” weight class. Figures PJ certainly can’t be as good after only beating Sealey 2-1. It vexes their wordy wizard, though clearly not enough to quiet him.
Guessing it’ll take Jan 16 in Carver to accomplish that. ;)
A nice win over Cardenas today may accomplish that goal, lol.
 
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Sportfan2017

Senior
Jun 28, 2017
132
458
63
Eratosthenes was right.....the Earth is round and PSU wrestling is NUMBER ONE.......AGAIN! All is right with the world (of wrestling anyway) again. Now we can go back to normal.......He's STALLING! Iowa Squaks. Aruba. FULL COURT PRESS! FLO sucks