Fraud, here’s another example. Just how big is this problem?

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dawgman42

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DerHntr

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I don’t think enough people understand the scale of just one of these fraud cases. I prompted ChatGPT to estimate total federal income tax paid by a person making $100k a year for 40 years of their career. With the assumptions posted below, the estimated tax paid is $600k. When I think about these fraud cases, I recognize that they can totally negate my entire neighborhood’s lifetime federal income tax payments with a single case. The scale of it should really piss people off, but there seems to be a ho-hum reaction.
 

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skip dog

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I don’t think enough people understand the scale of just one of these fraud cases. I prompted ChatGPT to estimate total federal income tax paid by a person making $100k a year for 40 years of their career. With the assumptions posted below, the estimated tax paid is $600k. When I think about these fraud cases, I recognize that they can totally negate my entire neighborhood’s lifetime federal income tax payments with a single case. The scale of it should really piss people off, but there seems to be a ho-hum reaction.
as to the "ho-hum" reaction, I'm livid, and I know that it is so much more widespread than we even think we know today (I do not think this stuff is a conspiracy at all)......but I think the ho-hum stuff we are seeing is that the proof will be in the pudding when we see big time public officials going to jail and major whistle-blowing exposure.

*I firmly believe as I sit here today that the greatest threat to our country is Congress......not every member, but definitely north of 70% of them (what we see today is nothing but theater)....*
 

aTotal360

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Nov 12, 2009
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as to the "ho-hum" reaction, I'm livid, and I know that it is so much more widespread than we even think we know today (I do not think this stuff is a conspiracy at all)......but I think the ho-hum stuff we are seeing is that the proof will be in the pudding when we see big time public officials going to jail and major whistle-blowing exposure.

*I firmly believe as I sit here today that the greatest threat to our country is Congress......not every member, but definitely north of 70% of them (what we see today is nothing but theater)....*
LOTS of bureaucrats and politicians from both sides of the aisle need to go to jail.
 

wasabaka

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Speaking of fraud. A friend just posted something on Facebook that claims 18% of all the home health billing to the govt comes from Los Angeles County. If true, that is a massive amount of fraud.
So you believe everything posted or copy/pasted on FB as long as they are your friend? Check.
 

00Dawg

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So you believe everything posted or copy/pasted on FB as long as they are your friend? Check.
Not quite sure of the monetary scope offhand, but the hospice fraud problem in California is real.
State auditors found 210 hospice providers within one square mile with 112 in a single building, and the state put a moratorium on new licenses in 2021.
Republicans and Democrats are fighting a bit over who gets credit for finding/fixing the problem, when the real question is why this only now became sort-of-national news. Newsome touts revoking 280 licenses while the total count in LA county is still almost 2,000.
 

mstateglfr

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Speaking of fraud. A friend just posted something on Facebook that claims 18% of all the home health billing to the govt comes from Los Angeles County. If true, that is a massive amount of fraud.
LA County has 3% of the US population.
- The county apparently has more hospice facilities than 36 states combined. If that is stat is true, and they are legit facilities, then that could help explain some of the difference between population and billing.
- If some doctors/facilities are billing noticeably more than what their practice can possibly handle, then hopefully they are investigated and convicted if guilty.
 
Nov 16, 2005
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So you believe everything posted or copy/pasted on FB as long as they are your friend? Check.
From ChatGPT because I’m not spending hours trying to find this. Again, it’s AI so take it with a grain of salt but here’s what it found.

Here’s how Los Angeles County’s share of U.S. population and Medicare enrollment compares with its share of U.S. home health billing (about 18 %) — to give you better context:

📍 Population Share

  • Los Angeles County had an estimated ~9.76 million people in 2024.
  • The total U.S. population was about 342 million in 2024.
  • So Los Angeles County’s share of the U.S. population is roughly:
    9.76 M ÷ 342 M ≈ 2.9 % of the total U.S. population.
    That means LA County produces about ~18 % of home health billing while having under 3 % of the U.S. population — a far larger share than you’d expect based on population alone.

🧓 Medicare Enrollment Share

Getting exact Medicare enrollment by county vs. national totals is trickier because up-to-date county-level Medicare totals aren’t always published in a centralized national breakdown. But we do know:

  • In Los Angeles County, approximately 14.1 % of the county’s population was enrolled in Medicare (about 1.41 million people).
  • Nationally, roughly ~20 % of the U.S. population is enrolled in Medicare (about 68 million beneficiaries out of ~342 million total population).
From that:

  • LA County’s Medicare enrollment (~1.4 M) as a share of all Medicare beneficiaries nationwide (~68 M) would be:
    1.4 M ÷ 68 M ≈ ~2 % of all U.S. Medicare beneficiaries — again much smaller than the county’s home health billing share.

 

thatsbaseball

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There has never been and hopefully will never be another event to ever rival the amount of fraud and waste associated with the covid pandemic. Republicans and Democrats litterally seemed to be competing to see who could print the most money and give it away for mostly bogus programs. We are still feeling the effects and will for some time to come.
 

DawgNsuds

Junior
Jun 4, 2007
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From ChatGPT because I’m not spending hours trying to find this. Again, it’s AI so take it with a grain of salt but here’s what it found.

Here’s how Los Angeles County’s share of U.S. population and Medicare enrollment compares with its share of U.S. home health billing (about 18 %) — to give you better context:

📍 Population Share

  • Los Angeles County had an estimated ~9.76 million people in 2024.
  • The total U.S. population was about 342 million in 2024.
  • So Los Angeles County’s share of the U.S. population is roughly:
    9.76 M ÷ 342 M ≈ 2.9 % of the total U.S. population.
    That means LA County produces about ~18 % of home health billing while having under 3 % of the U.S. population — a far larger share than you’d expect based on population alone.

🧓 Medicare Enrollment Share

Getting exact Medicare enrollment by county vs. national totals is trickier because up-to-date county-level Medicare totals aren’t always published in a centralized national breakdown. But we do know:

  • In Los Angeles County, approximately 14.1 % of the county’s population was enrolled in Medicare (about 1.41 million people).
  • Nationally, roughly ~20 % of the U.S. population is enrolled in Medicare (about 68 million beneficiaries out of ~342 million total population).
From that:

  • LA County’s Medicare enrollment (~1.4 M) as a share of all Medicare beneficiaries nationwide (~68 M) would be:
    1.4 M ÷ 68 M ≈ ~2 % of all U.S. Medicare beneficiaries — again much smaller than the county’s home health billing share.

with my back of the napkin math, percentage of population 65 and above is 15.7%, unless you meet a criteria, you sign up for Medicare at 65. I believe this matches your 1.4 million. Just looking at it with a different set of data to match your point
 

OG Goat Holder

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LOTS of bureaucrats and politicians from both sides of the aisle need to go to jail.
80% politicians, 20% bureaucrats.

Bureaucrats don't create the programs or make the rules, they just enforce them. In a select few cases, perhaps there could have been more oversight, but most of the fraudulent programs were created in such a way to curtail any 'checks'.
 

OG Goat Holder

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There has never been and hopefully will never be another event to ever rival the amount of fraud and waste associated with the covid pandemic. Republicans and Democrats litterally seemed to be competing to see who could print the most money and give it away for mostly bogus programs. We are still feeling the effects and will for some time to come.
Agree. But remember, Donald J started all that nonsense.
 

ckDOG

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as to the "ho-hum" reaction, I'm livid, and I know that it is so much more widespread than we even think we know today (I do not think this stuff is a conspiracy at all)......but I think the ho-hum stuff we are seeing is that the proof will be in the pudding when we see big time public officials going to jail and major whistle-blowing exposure.

*I firmly believe as I sit here today that the greatest threat to our country is Congress......not every member, but definitely north of 70% of them (what we see today is nothing but theater)....*
We are too busy convincing ourselves that whatever tribe we vote for is great and will fix the everything and make things awesome and that the other is the devil. While distracted with that, we miss the forest for the trees as criminals and elites loot the common man's taxes, hobnob with known child/sex traffickers, maintain the war machine, bail themselves out (for you!), and on....

The folks benefiting off this are truly masters at manipulating us. But it's nothing new...just a bigger scale now.
 

horshack.sixpack

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Oct 30, 2012
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as to the "ho-hum" reaction, I'm livid, and I know that it is so much more widespread than we even think we know today (I do not think this stuff is a conspiracy at all)......but I think the ho-hum stuff we are seeing is that the proof will be in the pudding when we see big time public officials going to jail and major whistle-blowing exposure.

*I firmly believe as I sit here today that the greatest threat to our country is Congress......not every member, but definitely north of 70% of them (what we see today is nothing but theater)....*
I've long held the belief that if you do what it takes to get elected to a national office, you probably don't have the character to be someone I want representing me.
 

OG Goat Holder

Heisman
Sep 30, 2022
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We are too busy convincing ourselves that whatever tribe we vote for is great and will fix the everything and make things awesome and that the other is the devil. While distracted with that, we miss the forest for the trees as criminals and elites loot the common man's taxes, hobnob with known child/sex traffickers, maintain the war machine, bail themselves out (for you!), and on....

The folks benefiting off this are truly masters at manipulating us. But it's nothing new...just a bigger scale now.
Problem is, there's no fixing it. It's human nature.
 
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goindhoo

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I was having a similar conversation with my wife last night. Trump campaigned on cutting all the waste and needless spending, yet congress just passed another budget bill sending millions to foreign countries and BS programs. Thomas Massie had a good tweet about it all with citations to the provisions in the bill. It is very disappointing. Trump, and most other republicans, just go along with the washington swamp. It is one big racket that will never change. I assume that is why Elon/Doge made a quick exit.
 
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mcdawg22

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as to the "ho-hum" reaction, I'm livid, and I know that it is so much more widespread than we even think we know today (I do not think this stuff is a conspiracy at all)......but I think the ho-hum stuff we are seeing is that the proof will be in the pudding when we see big time public officials going to jail and major whistle-blowing exposure.

*I firmly believe as I sit here today that the greatest threat to our country is Congress......not every member, but definitely north of 70% of them (what we see today is nothing but theater)....*
You are 100% correct on Congress. A sitting senator was CEO of a company that commited 1.7 billion dollars (in 2003 dollars) worth of Medicare fraud.
 

OG Goat Holder

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Sep 30, 2022
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I was having a similar conversation with my wife last night. Trump campaigned on cutting all the waste and needless spending, yet congress just passed another budget bill sending millions to foreign countries and BS programs. Thomas Massie had a good tweet about it all with citations to the provisions in the bill. It is very disappointing. Trump, and most other republicans, just go along with the washington swamp. It is one big racket that will never change. I assume that is why Elon/Doge made a quick exit.
It can't change, because everyone who comes in and tries, finds out there's a reason for most of it. And the 'waste' in terms of government personnel was incredibly overstated. The government needs people to perform its functions. As far as aid to other countries? Who really knows, there.

Now, where there IS waste, is from PEOPLE defrauding the government. The Minnesota thing for example. Every now and again you'll find a bureaucrat on the take, but not often. There's just too many checks and too much oversight for someone to risk their job. The bureaucrats carry out Congress' law.

Comes back to ICE too. Even if you don't like the extreme lengths ICE is going to now, why you blaming them? Blame the administration and the political appointees who gave the orders and mandates. The dudes in uniform on the ground are just doing what they are told to do.
 

paindonthurt

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That is some form of fraud in every level of government.

The bigger the government the bigger the fraud. Wayyy too much money for there not to be fraud. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 

paindonthurt

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LA County has 3% of the US population.
- The county apparently has more hospice facilities than 36 states combined. If that is stat is true, and they are legit facilities, then that could help explain some of the difference between population and billing.
- If some doctors/facilities are billing noticeably more than what their practice can possibly handle, then hopefully they are investigated and convicted if guilty.
How could one county have more hospice facilities than 36 states combined unless that ratio goes along with population?

If it does go along with population ratio, then 3% and 18% are way 17ing off.
 

horshack.sixpack

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It can't change, because everyone who comes in and tries, finds out there's a reason for most of it. And the 'waste' in terms of government personnel was incredibly overstated. The government needs people to perform its functions. As far as aid to other countries? Who really knows, there.

Now, where there IS waste, is from PEOPLE defrauding the government. The Minnesota thing for example. Every now and again you'll find a bureaucrat on the take, but not often. There's just too many checks and too much oversight for someone to risk their job. The bureaucrats carry out Congress' law.

Comes back to ICE too. Even if you don't like the extreme lengths ICE is going to now, why you blaming them? Blame the administration and the political appointees who gave the orders and mandates. The dudes in uniform on the ground are just doing what they are told to do.
rebuttal:

Adolf Eichmann: Claimed he was a "little cog" carrying out orders, not making policy.
Rudolf Höss: Stated he was trained to obey without thinking.
Wilhelm Keitel & Alfred Jodl: Argued that while they knew Hitler's orders were unlawful, they were obliged to follow them.
Otto Ohlendorf: Claimed his role in mass murder was just following orders.
Erich Priebke: Argued it was impossible to disobey orders during a massacre.
 
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paindonthurt

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Apr 7, 2025
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It can't change, because everyone who comes in and tries, finds out there's a reason for most of it. And the 'waste' in terms of government personnel was incredibly overstated. The government needs people to perform its functions. As far as aid to other countries? Who really knows, there.

Now, where there IS waste, is from PEOPLE defrauding the government. The Minnesota thing for example. Every now and again you'll find a bureaucrat on the take, but not often. There's just too many checks and too much oversight for someone to risk their job. The bureaucrats carry out Congress' law.

Comes back to ICE too. Even if you don't like the extreme lengths ICE is going to now, why you blaming them? Blame the administration and the political appointees who gave the orders and mandates. The dudes in uniform on the ground are just doing what they are told to do.
You are an absolute moron if you think there is a reason for a lot of the stuff we spend.

We could cut our budget by 5% easily. I know this b/c we are spending 40% more per person after adjusting for inflation since mid 1990. What in the actual 17 has happened since 1999 or early 2000s that would cause us to spend 40% more per person? NOTHING!!!
 

horshack.sixpack

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LOTS of bureaucrats and politicians from both sides of the aisle need to go to jail.
We don't care when our politicians do unscrupulous things. That's been proven over and over again. Co-pilot (disclaimer) reminds us that grifters are everywhere.

Sen. Markwayne Mullin (R‑OK) — Senate HELP (Health, Education, Labor & Pensions) & Armed Services
• Trade: Bought Stride, Inc. (LRN), a for‑profit education company.
• Outcome: The position was flagged after a ~35% gain; coverage explicitly tied the position to Mullin’s role on the Education side of HELP.


Sen. Tina Smith (D‑MN) — Senate HELP (Health)
• Trade: Bought Tactile Systems (TCMD), a medical device firm.
• Outcome: Independent trackers show her 11/2023 buy up ~75% by late‑2024/early‑2025 and the 11/2024 add up ~13% within weeks; another write‑up noted a 40%+ surge shortly after purchase—squarely in her committee’s health domain.


Rep. Julie Johnson (D‑TX) — House Homeland Security (Border Security; Emergency Management & Technology)
• Trade: Bought and later sold Palantir (PLTR), a government contractor used by DHS/ICE.
• Outcome: Her 2025 sales disclosed profits in the $1,001–$15,000 range per sale. Coverage also underlined that she sits on Homeland Security subcommittees that oversee the same department Palantir serves.


Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R‑GA) — House Homeland Security; Oversight & Accountability
• Trade: Reported buys in Palantir (PLTR) and Impinj (PI) (RFID/IoT with defense & security applications).
• Outcome: A Capitol Trades roundup highlighted these as profitable tech trades that more than doubled, noting her oversight role touching DHS/Pentagon contractors.


Rep. Ro Khanna (D‑CA) — House Armed Services (Cyber, Innovative Technologies & Information Systems subcommittee); Oversight
• Trade: Repeated purchases of CrowdStrike (CRWD) and other cybersecurity/IT names.
• Outcome: A detailed review of his 2024 transactions showed double‑digit gains on CRWD within weeks; Khanna’s committee work centers on cyber and emerging tech—the sector these firms operate in. (Khanna’s household often files trades; House rules require members to disclose spouse/dependent trades as well.)
 
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