just a pathetic final 16 mins by all the players and coaches, inexcusable to look that bad.
Game Thread: St. John’s
- Thread starter HallGuy2323
- Start date
Along with missed layups & free throws, not having a legitimate PF killed us in the 2nd half.
They sure did. I was underwhelmed by what I saw from Bryce Hopkins. But we had no answer for keeping him out of the paint. Which just created a free for all on all his missed shots.
They cleaned up the offensive glass during their comeback and it felt like got every 50/50 ball.
Not having a true PF hurt us against USC and it impacted us again tonight.
I've basically refrained from posting post-Maui about stuff basketball related because of the extremes one way or the other. Brought my kid tonight and sat in the upper 200s. Yes, I was one of our 50 fans there. I just don't get the "they paid for a W" tonight. Everyone "pays" for W's now. Period. When we lose to UCONN, or Nova, do we say they "paid" for a W?
This was a winnable game. We mucked it up enough to get them to play more to our style, and it was working. We were shooting like almost 70% from 3 midway through the second half, which is basically a miracle. We get a favorable whistle, especially on two fouls on their best player who didn't play like it tonight but is one of the best at what he does in the league, if not the country. Off-games from some of their guards, which we had a part in no doubt with our usual good defense. Frustrating. Kids played hard, but we are just so offensively limited at times. What surprised me was that St. John's could win that type of game. We know when they are going well offensively they can really be difficult, and that Pitino has already improved them defensively by leaps and bounds. But I wasn't sure they could come back down such a large deficit in a scrappy game where some of their best players are having off-nights and they aren't knocking down 3s.
It’s wasn’t intended to be an excuse.
What Sha and the team has accomplished this season is beyond commendable.
But against the teams that are well funded with NIL and also well coached, we are facing an uphill battle with the raw talent on the floor.
the collective sum has to be better than the individual parts to win. So when Sha can’t institute his style to help even the playing field, we tend to see a lot of one on one matchups we lose, purely based on lack of superior talent.
Tonight was frustrating because doing some of the little things: FTs, rebounding, fast break execution, 50/50 balls could have gotten us to the finish line.
I agree with all your points. But when we beat any one of the mid majors/low major cupcakes, or a Washington State, do we “pay” for those wins? Is that even mentioned in any thread discussing the game?
There has always been an imbalance when it comes to resources, just like there is in professional sports to varying degrees. When my Yanks lost to the Dodgers, my initial reaction wasn’t about how the Dodgers “paid” for that WS because they have deeper coffers or spend more. No, they beat us. Just like pre-NIL, when all these kids were being compensated in various forms, the non-football schools were most always at a disadvantage with few exceptions.
The system is what it is, and as sucky as it is, everyone is now diverting university $$ to pay college players. 20 games into a season it seems odd this is the first win or loss when folks are commenting about a team “paying” for a win. As you point out, this game was eminently winnable. Even more so than last year when I think we were actually leading them at halftime at MSG in the game they clinched the BE title but got beat in the second half.
I’m just saying it would be nice if we actually had a PF on the roster, or a back up PG, or a 3 point shooter.
Even with the imbalance of power back in the day, we still were able to recruit players at their normal positions.
Even with spending upwards of $6m this year we were told starting caliber efficient 3 point shooters cost $2m and so do athletic PFs, plus PGs and Centers are premium positions. So we couldn’t have all of that on the NIL budget we have.
I mean not even too long ago, you could develop a Ro Gil from a JUCO school, have McKnight adjust in year two of the program, have 3 star players like Sandro and Rhoden become all league players, and have a player like Myles Powell stay for his senior season after taking a quantum leap his junior year.
we didn’t have the resources of the football schools back then either. But you could find a way to get the stars to align and have something special.
I am appreciating the season for what it is. After a 7-25 season, I give Sha credit for going after hungry, experienced, defensive minded players, who are buying into his system. He had them playing competitive basketball and honestly above their heads. Now we are seeing some regression to the mean for some of the players. We are seeing some of their limitations at the high D1 level. Does that mean they couldn’t win tonight’s game. NO.
My issue is people moved the bar from don’t be in last, to maybe be .500 in the BE, to maybe be a tournament team, to don’t ever lose a game to a team we believe we are better than, in the blink of an eye. That’s a ridiculously unfair expectation.
Now that they have stumbled, the board is littered with Shaheen is a bad coach, he can’t adjust, or essentially anything to flip the script that he is a failure. I just don’t get it.
Let me ask you this. If Sha had the NIL budget Pitino has, to get his type of player, but at an elite level, how good do you think he could have Seton Hall playing?
On a separate note. As a Yankee fan as well, I don’t complain when the Yankees lose to the Dodgers or Red Sox due to resources.
But to be fair Seton Hall is not the Yankees in this analogy.
Are they the Tampa Bay Rays, Pittsburgh Pirates, or Miami Marlins? Or maybe they are more of a middle market team like the Brewers or Dbacks.
Regardless of who they are comparable to, those fans absolutely complain that the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets etc etc start each year at a competitive advantage due to resources.
this is another reason why this country loves football (besides gambling and fantasy sports
), the salary cap allows for competitive balance and the hope that your franchise can turn things around quicker due to the parity of the league.To answer each of your points above:
1. I appreciate the season as well to date, especially coming off last year's debacle. Immensely. Hence why I paid $$ to go tonight into the proverbial lion's den, despite the freezing cold, with one of my kids.
2. I haven't moved the bar, at least in my mind. This year is a positive to date IMO. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise.
3. I don't agree with that, and haven't posted anything to that effect. As noted, I've barely posted on here since Maui because of the "extremes" in both directions. When things go well -- which anyone here is going to celebrate -- the finger-pointing and snarky comments start being directed to anyone who had an objective, fact-based viewpoint that isn't akin to Carino's state-run media outlook. And, when things aren't going well, things go reactionary in the wrong direction, quickly. There is little nuance from so many, when all of this if filled with nuance.
4. Do I think it is likely Sha would do better with more resources/money? Of course. But the board and everyone else who pulls for Sha (and I do) would do themselves a favor by not comparing him to one of the greatest all time coaches. It is apples and bowling balls. Pitino's career as a HC is nothing short of amazing when you think about where he's won, what he's rebuilt, and how he literally has taken every type of team, in every type of era, to success. Often unprecedented success.
We are on the same page.
Sorry if my comments came across directed at you.
I’m personally frustrated as to how the board turns viral after a loss like tonight.
Everyone is frustrated but the knee jerk reactions get to me.
Well the brewers win and dbacks were recently in the WS…so?On a separate note. As a Yankee fan as well, I don’t complain when the Yankees lose to the Dodgers or Red Sox due to resources.
But to be fair Seton Hall is not the Yankees in this analogy.
Are they the Tampa Bay Rays, Pittsburgh Pirates, or Miami Marlins? Or maybe they are more of a middle market team like the Brewers or Dbacks.
Regardless of who they are comparable to, those fans absolutely complain that the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets etc etc start each year at a competitive advantage due to resources.
this is another reason why this country loves football (besides gambling and fantasy sports
Also your competitive balance=popularity makes no sense. Yes the NFL is king with competitive balance. However the second most popular sport BY FAR is college football which operates in the same system as us
And hasn’t had a new champion (now Indiana) since 1996 and Florida..literal antithesis of competitive balance
Based on tv ratings soccer(international), NFL, NBA, and MLB are superior to college football in this capacity.
lol
Oh so we are going international now? You’re the king of the phrase “moving the goal post”
And you’re pulling that?
Good one
Soccer also is notoriously uncompetitive balance where the rich get richer
Well I couldn’t say most popular because if you Google it, soccer comes up as number one globally.
In America we all know NFL rules and nothing really is a close second.
but yes the NBA and MLB still out pace college football in overall tv ratings. That’s just a fact.
And of course you can still be a major fan of a sport that has competitive imbalance. However, with the old system in CBB you felt that there was a remote outside chance to make a magical final four run.
Part of the ability to make that kind of special run was the continuity a smaller program could assemble by being together for 3-4 years with an upper class laden team. That could be Seton Hall or a mid major.
You watch, you are going to see less and less of the Cinderella stories in the tournament.
It is literally not a fact at all. What?!
Is college football undervalued? America's second-most popular game still leaving billions on the table
Ripe for venture capitalists and mega streaming deals down the line, college football's bottom line is getting astronomical
www.cbssports.com
lol. The new media rights deal for the NBA is valued at approximately $76B and that doesn’t factor in attendance, hype, etc etc like this article mentions for CFB.It is literally not a fact at all. What?!
Is college football undervalued? America's second-most popular game still leaving billions on the table
Ripe for venture capitalists and mega streaming deals down the line, college football's bottom line is getting astronomical
And the article states that the combined media rights deal of the P4 schools plus the playoffs is at just under $20B.
I don’t see how this is remotely close to each other.
for the record the NFL is closer to $100B in total media rights.
Changing goal posts!!!
You said ratings
College football dominates those other sports in ratings and their revenue is split amongst conferences that’s the point of the article
Good one though
I did say ratings. Google it. CFB is not #2
then you shared an article about media revenue and based on that CFB is not number 2.
and just to make my point further, you think that the NBA has a $76B media rights deal (almost 4 times the size of CFB) and the networks paid that kind of money because the rating are worse than CFB.
Commendable????
We have 14 wins against one of the most garbage schedules a power conference team could put together. Just like we lost last night, MU and GU being bad contributed to us winning those games. Those teams crumbled themselves similar to how we crumbled last night. When you lose after being up 15 it's both teams contributiing to the outcome. NC State is a good win. Creighton has turned out to be a mediocre win, Kansas State is a mediocre win. Not sure how long you've been watching big east basketball but the entire bottom half of the league is bad. I can't remember a time that's been true.
You’re right you winI did say ratings. Google it. CFB is not #2
then you shared an article about media revenue and based on that CFB is not number 2.
and just to make my point further, you think that the NBA has a $76B media rights deal (almost 4 times the size of CFB) and the networks paid that kind of money because the rating are worse than CFB.
The NBA gets better ratings than college football