I'm convinced Winston did rape that girl after this article
- Thread starter civildawg88
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I'm not trying to say that JW is innocent, but all that did was reinforce to me what I believed the other day - that Mr. Meggs is incompetent, insensitive or both.
I think this article does the opposite for me. I hate saying this for fear of being roasted, but I just don't believe the "victim". It didn't sound like she really tried too hard to stop it. And for the fact that she said she felt sick, she shouldn't have drank so much. I'm not saying that a girl that gets beyond wasted deserves to get raped; rape is obviously hideous no matter what. But what I'm saying is that people need to think before they decide to get **** canned wasted. I know that if there is an opportunity that I may get highly inebriated, I throttle back and mix in some waters or just drink really, really slowly so that I can show a little personal restraint.
Also, I hate thinking about this, but what if she is just a crazy young woman who just wants to get back at Winston? I don't know. I wasn't there, and I sure as hell don't know the truth. We know they had sex, but I have read/heard stories that she was jealous because she was Winston's woman on the side and wanted to be his girlfriend. Is this true? Again, I don't know. But, there is enough out there that causes me to doubt her story.
I absolutely hate hearing stories like this. They are uncomfortable to read/discuss/even contemplate. Unfortunately, it's a big story and probably needs to be talked about in order to shed light on atrocities such as this one may be.
Yeah you're right. I had a crazy girlfriend once and it's scary what some girls can make up and get people to believe them.
If Winston was NOT a D1 athlete for Florida State University, this would have
been filed within 2 to 3 weeks after it was reported. I can GUARANTEE that. And, that's what pisses me off about the whole thing. This public defender gets that too...but she doesn't come right out and say it.
I have seen MANY weaker sex assaults been filed. Some get dismissed. Some plea to misdemeanors. Some go to trial. If this guy was poor and/or not an athlete, his name would be drug through the mud.
been filed within 2 to 3 weeks after it was reported. I can GUARANTEE that. And, that's what pisses me off about the whole thing. This public defender gets that too...but she doesn't come right out and say it.
I have seen MANY weaker sex assaults been filed. Some get dismissed. Some plea to misdemeanors. Some go to trial. If this guy was poor and/or not an athlete, his name would be drug through the mud.
I wil add this.
Attorneys who deal with these type of crimes DO become insensitive. We have to cope with the stress and sometimes disgust of the job.
However, you have to maintain your professionalism. You can't appear to be a crazy, insensitive loon at a press conference the entire country is watching.
Attorneys who deal with these type of crimes DO become insensitive. We have to cope with the stress and sometimes disgust of the job.
However, you have to maintain your professionalism. You can't appear to be a crazy, insensitive loon at a press conference the entire country is watching.
I would urge you to really evaluate your thoughts on this. Of course she may be crazy, and of course she may have something to gain, but she could also potentially be a victim. You absolutely have to consider the possibilities equally, then consult the evidence. Are you searching for the truth or are you looking to shift blame?
I hate for you to think I'm putting you on the spot -- a lot of society needs to consider this, myself included. I think as men, deep down, we blame women in that way because we struggle with the role men play in rape. Do we perpetuate a system which allows men to sexually assault women? Do cops fail to investigate allegations fairly and thoroughly? How do we fix those problems?
I did some work in a police department, and I heard detectives rattle off stats about how many false rape reports there are in their town. Those statistics were confirmed with stories that were comical bordering on absurd. I think the danger is that cops take those stories as an excuse for their dismissive behavior, and therefore become skeptical and blame women -- and that absolutely shades the evidence towards acquittal. I hate to seem like I'm putting down men, I just think it's hard for us to accept that rape is solely our responsibility, reasonably so.
No media organization, legitimate or otherwise has reported this or even insinuated this. This "rumor" entirely comes from Florida State message board conspiracies.
The sad fact is it's real hard to know who to believe in cases like this. My guess has always been that he did rape her. But it would be damn near impossible to prove it. The lesson to be learned is that college girls should be very careful about the parties they go to, the guys they hang around with, and how much they drink. It's not even close to being fair to them, but that's just the way it is.
I am just curious about something
When the opposing attorney admits the first piece of evidence in a trial, do you stand up, throw your hands in the air and scream "17 it! We're going to lose!" and storm out of the courtroom?
When the opposing attorney admits the first piece of evidence in a trial, do you stand up, throw your hands in the air and scream "17 it! We're going to lose!" and storm out of the courtroom?
Shows how much the South has changed.
You had a bunch of white males pleased that a black man wasn't charged with raping a white girl. We are definitely not living in To Kill a Mockingbird times. And this case didn't get near the publicity as the one involving the falsely accused Duke Lacrosse players. Of course it probably helps that the races were reversed here.
You had a bunch of white males pleased that a black man wasn't charged with raping a white girl. We are definitely not living in To Kill a Mockingbird times. And this case didn't get near the publicity as the one involving the falsely accused Duke Lacrosse players. Of course it probably helps that the races were reversed here.
From Wikipedia
There were also 1,336 reported rapes during the first 10 days of the occupation of Kanagawa prefecture after the Japanese surrender.[SUP][86]
Well let's say half of these were crazy women, that still leaves 668, From the first 10 days how many were tried and or found guilty? We are not told. My guess 0.
Will they stand before God, not guilty?
The lady who wrote the article was correct, Had she reported the rape what is the chance anything would have been done. 1%?
[/SUP]
There were also 1,336 reported rapes during the first 10 days of the occupation of Kanagawa prefecture after the Japanese surrender.[SUP][86]
Well let's say half of these were crazy women, that still leaves 668, From the first 10 days how many were tried and or found guilty? We are not told. My guess 0.
Will they stand before God, not guilty?
The lady who wrote the article was correct, Had she reported the rape what is the chance anything would have been done. 1%?
[/SUP]
I completely understand with what you are saying. I didn't really express my personally thoughts on the situation quite clearly (and perhaps what I actually typed is NOT what I meant to say). I should have said that I'm not sure what to believe in this case. I was just trying to say it could have been consensual, but it could have been rape. We simply don't know. I just hate it when we pass judgement when we, in fact, don't know which is 100% true. I shouldn't have exactly said that I don't believe her side. I do slightly tend to think she may be lying, but I definitely am nowhere near certain of that by any means.
Man, this is such an awful subject to discuss.
75 years ago he might have been lynched in the jail, guilty or not. I'm not going to lynch him on this board, because I don't know if he's guilty or not. But I accepted over 10 years ago the fact that black athletes are commonly dating white girls. If your stomach is weak to the idea, don't hang out behind the field house after a game.
Why does that article change anything for you? Just because one person was raped a long time ago and didn't report it? Because otherwise it just seems to repeat what has already been in the news.
A girl claimed she was raped. There were witnesses supporting the story of the accused. The girl's recollection was impaired by alcohol. The reality is there's no way we'll ever know what happened that night. It's a pretty common story and there is no good way to handle these he said/she said cases. If you really apply the beyond reasonable doubt standard, it's basically open season for creeps to take advantage of drunk girls. If you basically allow it to revolve around the credibility of the accuser v. the accused, you get more convictions, but you also send a lot of men to jail for the crime of being less convincing than the crazy woman throwing out false rape accusations. And you either make it brutal on real rape victims to come forward because you put their reputation on trial, or you basically prevent accused men of even presenting an effective defense because the reality is the best you can do to disprove a rape allegation in a he said/she said situation is to show that the accuser does tend to have random sex a lot and that it's not unlikely at all to believe that she voluntarily had sex and then had regrets or is just plain crazy.
I don't know if he is or if he isn't but one thing for sure if he is quilty he will do it again. Any ways six years after he is drafted he will be out of the NFL, broke and most likely addicted to drugs. If he is quilty I believe what goes around come around and he will end up in prison and he himself will be rape multible times.
Nailed it.
I have 2 daughters, young, and will spend the next 10-15 years slowly helping them learn how to act so they can have fun while staying in situations where they are safe.
One of my main points will be that they cant be the girl on the side, since you know, that alone should feel degrading as hell- but back to the point.
It isnt fair that the burden is on the girl to make sure isnt attacked, but its the reality. And all the work to change societal behavior over the last however many decades is great, but until men stop raping(noggana happen), women need to look out for #1...them.
It certainly isnt then the woman's fault when she is raped. It is still the rapist's fault and always will be the rapist's fault.
College girls put themselves in some seriously stupid situations though, at least when I was at MSU. VERY stupid situations. It sucks to think about now that I have kids and perspective.
wow. i read the article and was thinking this would just solidify me with the victim. i don't have a doubt that something sexual happened that night, but there is a whole lot more to the story. i'm very glad they linked the police report and all the test results. interesting stuff. it shows that something sexual did happen. it also shows in her police report she had at least 5 drinks with vodka and possibly several other drinks. was chased around the bar by an indian and the bartender saved her by "buying" her a drink. btw, she's under age but had some way (not indicated as fake id) of getting the drinks she had. her recollection after that gets really muddy.... and then very detailed. in fact, she has cloudy recollection of getting into the cab and yet has really nice ability to text her friend monique -- i'm amazed at this skill because the last time i tried to text while drunk, lets just say what i thought i texted and what was on record is two completely different things. i just don't see how anyone can claim they can't recall major movements and then proclaim detail and control at the same time.
i tried to fish all the details out of the reports and not fall into the message board rumor trap, so i'm having a hard time finding a few things. lets just say, it would have been a hard case to convict in front of a jury in tallahassee, especially considering jameis refusal to be interviewed by the po po.... and his buddies coming in 11 months after the fact.
i tried to fish all the details out of the reports and not fall into the message board rumor trap, so i'm having a hard time finding a few things. lets just say, it would have been a hard case to convict in front of a jury in tallahassee, especially considering jameis refusal to be interviewed by the po po.... and his buddies coming in 11 months after the fact.
Why would someone's stomach be "weak to the idea?" Why would you have to "accept" this fact, as if it's some sort of horrible tragedy?
Those are some really awesome stereotypes you just labeled him with. Please, tell us more about why you believe this.
I'm with you 100%, but as men we have to be conscious that it is illegal to have sex with a legally drunk woman on a one night stand. I'm sure 99.9% of women who do have sex via getting drunk and going home with someone weren't blackout drunk so either don't care or are too embarrassed to say anything, but wasted people can't give consent.
According to Winston and his attorney and all the legal papers, he met her at a bar and took her back home on his scooter. Either he was sober or was DWI. If he was sober, what kind of person bangs a drunk chick he doesn't know?
I don't know (and you don't know) that it was rape or she was getting back at him, but I have a problem with Winston trying to brush off the incident as not being shady what-so-ever.
I saw where she blew like a .04 or something, but come on... DUI 101 is to refuse a breathalizer and take the ride to the station where they'll either make you do it then or take a blood sample, and by then you hope it's dropped below .08. I don't care what they recorded after the fact, I have no doubt she was drunk. Guy deserves the Heisman though. I still think he's a POS.
According to Winston and his attorney and all the legal papers, he met her at a bar and took her back home on his scooter. Either he was sober or was DWI. If he was sober, what kind of person bangs a drunk chick he doesn't know?
I don't know (and you don't know) that it was rape or she was getting back at him, but I have a problem with Winston trying to brush off the incident as not being shady what-so-ever.
I saw where she blew like a .04 or something, but come on... DUI 101 is to refuse a breathalizer and take the ride to the station where they'll either make you do it then or take a blood sample, and by then you hope it's dropped below .08. I don't care what they recorded after the fact, I have no doubt she was drunk. Guy deserves the Heisman though. I still think he's a POS.
Maybe she said don't put it back there...
***** was identified on the anal swabs (Exhibit 2D), the panties (Exhibit 3) and the pink shorts (Exhibit 3A). No ***** was identified on the buccal swabs (Exhibit 2A), the vaginal swabs (Exhibit 2B) or the cervical swabs (Exhibit 2C).
***** was identified on the anal swabs (Exhibit 2D), the panties (Exhibit 3) and the pink shorts (Exhibit 3A). No ***** was identified on the buccal swabs (Exhibit 2A), the vaginal swabs (Exhibit 2B) or the cervical swabs (Exhibit 2C).
Advice to my daughter
When she left for college ... "If you ever find youself in the situation where a man is going to 'take advangtage' of you ... just remember to tell him that 'when your done doing this and when you least expects it, my did is going to find you and 17'n blow your brains out with his 9mm"
And, she knew then & still knows that I wouldn't hesitate.
When she left for college ... "If you ever find youself in the situation where a man is going to 'take advangtage' of you ... just remember to tell him that 'when your done doing this and when you least expects it, my did is going to find you and 17'n blow your brains out with his 9mm"
And, she knew then & still knows that I wouldn't hesitate.
Because we rely on journalists to provide the evidence we read ...
and unless we have the 'whole' story, it is so hard to find the truth.
I read the 'opposite' kind of story over the weekend about the student at Auburn ( http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303615304579157900127017212 )
and I was really glad that I graduated in the '70's when the world was sane.
Intro ...
Joshua Strange will never forget the girl he met in May 2011.
Both were underclassmen at Alabama's Auburn University when a common acquaintance introduced them. "We instantly became attached at the hip and did everything together," she recalled six months later. "I rather quickly moved into his place. . . . Everything was great until pretty much June 29."
That night, an intimate encounter in Mr. Strange's bed went wrong. She called police, who detained him for questioning. She said she had awakened to find him forcing himself on her; he said the sexual activity was consensual and initiated by her. There was no dispute as to the physical acts involved.
and unless we have the 'whole' story, it is so hard to find the truth.
I read the 'opposite' kind of story over the weekend about the student at Auburn ( http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303615304579157900127017212 )
and I was really glad that I graduated in the '70's when the world was sane.
Intro ...
Joshua Strange will never forget the girl he met in May 2011.
Both were underclassmen at Alabama's Auburn University when a common acquaintance introduced them. "We instantly became attached at the hip and did everything together," she recalled six months later. "I rather quickly moved into his place. . . . Everything was great until pretty much June 29."
That night, an intimate encounter in Mr. Strange's bed went wrong. She called police, who detained him for questioning. She said she had awakened to find him forcing himself on her; he said the sexual activity was consensual and initiated by her. There was no dispute as to the physical acts involved.
I'm going to have to disagree on that last part of it being "solely" the responsibility of men. If all rapes were situations where men forced themselves upon women while the victim was vehemently against the act then I'd agree. But since we have occasions where women either don't try to fight back or have become inebriated to the point that they can't properly function, we still need to hold some of these women accountable. That's not to say that I'm for victim bashing because anyone with a functioning brain should be able to see that our culture and our justice system is 17ed beyond belief that perpetuates a lot of the stigma we have currently regarding rape.
So like you said, it's an uncomfortable topic but it's still one that we need to have if we want to see progress in this regard. However, I guess that depends on what we all consider progress. I believe accountability should be something that's upheld on both parties. To me, I think one of the bigger reasons as to why the way we handle rape is so screwed in general goes back to how our society views sex in general. We have a culture that puts sex on a pedestal for men as though men are the only ones that are supposed to enjoy it and slut shames those women that do like to engage in sex casually. This puts an idea of what a "good girl" is supposed to be like. That goes a long way in putting into the minds of both men and women that a particular woman is seen as undesirable if her sex life is made known. This definitely has played a role in a lot of false rape cases which has then hampered investigations on legitimate rape allegations as well.
To me, in order for this to become a more reliable system that goes out to make sure that these cases are properly tried, then we need to go a bit deeper and see just how we're causing a lot of these issues to persist.
So like you said, it's an uncomfortable topic but it's still one that we need to have if we want to see progress in this regard. However, I guess that depends on what we all consider progress. I believe accountability should be something that's upheld on both parties. To me, I think one of the bigger reasons as to why the way we handle rape is so screwed in general goes back to how our society views sex in general. We have a culture that puts sex on a pedestal for men as though men are the only ones that are supposed to enjoy it and slut shames those women that do like to engage in sex casually. This puts an idea of what a "good girl" is supposed to be like. That goes a long way in putting into the minds of both men and women that a particular woman is seen as undesirable if her sex life is made known. This definitely has played a role in a lot of false rape cases which has then hampered investigations on legitimate rape allegations as well.
To me, in order for this to become a more reliable system that goes out to make sure that these cases are properly tried, then we need to go a bit deeper and see just how we're causing a lot of these issues to persist.
That article was interesting until it blamed it all on "Obama's war on men." Bizarre twist into crazyland there...
They didn't prosecute b/c her stories are inconsistent, and the prosecutor said her story "moved around a good bit."
- Her friend at the bar said she was lucid and left willingly, knowing who she was leaving with.
- Her friend also told the cops the accuser told her she "may have been hit in the head," although there were no head injuries and the accuser didn't tell the cops that part of the story.
- Miniscule amounts of alcohol were found in her system, and the prosecutor commented that at most her extrapolated BAC would've been .10, which is not so drunk that you are incoherent and passing out.
- She has a vivid recollection of the design of the sheets on the bed among other details, but completely doesn't remember others?
-The rape kit didn't prove forceful sex
- She had ***** from her boyfriend (who is also black) on her pants, but refused to talk about her relationship w/ him and when they had sex.
That's why they didn't prosecute, but that being said, it still could've been rape. I think there are levels of rape, and this definitely wasn't forceful or her fighting him off kicking and screaming. I think she may have once or twice said something like "let's stop, I feel sick," and since she wasn't that adamant about it and didn't physically resist, then he went ahead. I think that's definitely what happended, because in her 1st interview w/ the cops SHE said that he "rolled her over to put her on top" but she just laid there. What guy that is forcefully raping someone rolls them over to put them on top?
So after they started she probably said "let's stop" and he said "let me finish."
Definitely fishy how his 2 teammates were his witnesses, they almost certainly colluded to get their stories straight.
- Her friend at the bar said she was lucid and left willingly, knowing who she was leaving with.
- Her friend also told the cops the accuser told her she "may have been hit in the head," although there were no head injuries and the accuser didn't tell the cops that part of the story.
- Miniscule amounts of alcohol were found in her system, and the prosecutor commented that at most her extrapolated BAC would've been .10, which is not so drunk that you are incoherent and passing out.
- She has a vivid recollection of the design of the sheets on the bed among other details, but completely doesn't remember others?
-The rape kit didn't prove forceful sex
- She had ***** from her boyfriend (who is also black) on her pants, but refused to talk about her relationship w/ him and when they had sex.
That's why they didn't prosecute, but that being said, it still could've been rape. I think there are levels of rape, and this definitely wasn't forceful or her fighting him off kicking and screaming. I think she may have once or twice said something like "let's stop, I feel sick," and since she wasn't that adamant about it and didn't physically resist, then he went ahead. I think that's definitely what happended, because in her 1st interview w/ the cops SHE said that he "rolled her over to put her on top" but she just laid there. What guy that is forcefully raping someone rolls them over to put them on top?
So after they started she probably said "let's stop" and he said "let me finish."
Definitely fishy how his 2 teammates were his witnesses, they almost certainly colluded to get their stories straight.