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paindonthurt

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Yes, I agree there have been a lot of 'sky is falling' articles written about the cuts.
Some of those claims have come true and we are worse off as a result.
Name one where we are worse off besides we fired a few people and had to rehire them.
Some of those claims have not yet come true but will with time.
Name one and be very specific on what it is and why.
I do want to make a distinction here and point out that the DOGE chaos I have had in mind was covered by media on both sides, but the chaos was created by DOGE itself. DOGE chose how information would be released and chose to release it in haphazard and incomplete ways. DOGE chose to release incomplete information to the general public and allowed the general public to run wild with guesses, interpretations, and conclusions.
It didn't matter what DOGE said or how they released it Libs gonna Lib. Proof? building a wall was only bad under trump. Kids in cages was terrible under trump until they found out Obama did it.
 

paindonthurt

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You need someone to explain to you what the word "income" means. Rich people pay most of the annual tax receipts, and are taxed at a higher rate based on income.

If you are rich but have no income, you won't pay tax.

View attachment 874705

If you are making money off of dividends, those are taxed differently.

View attachment 874711


There's plenty of nuance because the tax code is too complex. Yes, there are tax shelters that rich people can take advantage of to lower their tax bill. But this old left wing trope of rich people "not paying their fair share" is stupid. If they're reporting income, they're paying tax on it, and likely at a much higher rate than what you're paying on your income.
For @horshack.sixpack top 1% pays 40% of income tax revenue received by the federal government. MUH FAIR SHARE!!!
 

paindonthurt

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Triggered. Oh noes. Next up is TDS and maybe even cry more.
C'mon dude. Quit relying on simplistic, juvenile, predictable MAGA talking points and slogans. Save that for a Catturd post. And you didn't, or perhaps couldn't, answer my question. You just pointed out a few things the IRS did that you didn't like and I agree it shouldn't have done. Glfer is right your ability to confuse opinions, complaints and facts and then make some Dale Gribble type of assertion. Again you said it's what employees are focused on but couldn't provide some legit study. Plus that happened years again, it was a small number of employees and not the focus of the IRS, and I suspect the IRS is no longer behaving that way. Does that mean you're cool with it now with the number of employees it has? Y'all have a habit of taking something that happens rarely and exaggerating it. Are there idiotic K-12 teachers pushing gender theory in some classrooms? Sure but it's likely no more than 1%. Should it happen, no, but people then claim Marxist K-12 teachers are transing kids everywhere when it's a small number. Perspective
You can start here

Timeline of the IRS’s Abuse of Conservatives – Ways and Means

ETA since you idiots love NPR - IRS Apologizes For Aggressive Scrutiny Of Conservative Groups : NPR
 

Podgy

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Go Ahead Reaction GIF
Clever indeed. Here are some additional, useful slogans for you to totally boss online discussions: Any questions? I'll wait, Fixed it for you! Try harder, Do better, But you do you, You're so close, Period, Do your homework, Next, Cope, Cope and seethe, Full stop, Hope that helps, Cry more/harder, Read the room, Take the L, Try again, Not gonna read all that, You're new at this, aren't you? Thanks for playing, Cool story,
 

paindonthurt

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I said I'm aware of that and that it happened years ago. I really have no interested in arguing about things we agree on that's why I ask other questions or challenge other opinions.
Well you sure as he11 picked a weird one to challenge. The government spends too much money!!!
 

paindonthurt

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Are there idiotic K-12 teachers pushing gender theory in some classrooms? Sure but it's likely no more than 1%. Should it happen, no, but people then claim Marxist K-12 teachers are transing kids everywhere when it's a small number. Perspective
Ok so lets take this talking point. Lets say this is true. Why are liberals fighting against it so hard?

Why can't they just say ->> Yes this is dumb and stupid and we agree. We agree with you and we'll make it simple to stop it from ever happening.

You know what happens more? K-12 teachers teaching about trans and LGTBQ vs cops unjustly killing someone but which one is covered more about by the media? Remind me again when you last saw a white guy being killed by the cops and it covered ad nauseum by the media and riots occuring and such? NEVER HAPPENED.
 

Podgy

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I said I'm aware of that and that it happened years ago. I really have no interested in arguing about things we agree on that's why I ask other questions or challenge other opinions.

Well you sure as he11 picked a weird one to challenge. The government spends too much money!!!
Dude. Just read better and closer. No one ever challenged that. It's like I pointed out earlier. The police kill around 20 unarmed black Americans annually. That shouldn't happen but it does. But I'd be dumb to say "The Police should stop focusing on killing black people." Notice the word focus and think about what it means.
 

Podgy

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When's the first game and why the eff is it at noon, a time when I'm not about to sit in a stadium in Hattiesburg? you can't even get in a good tailgate by kickoff, well unless you're LSU fans then and you start drinking the night before and pull and all-nighter.
 

mstateglfr

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God you are so insufferable.

Yes I don't want someone gutting our military if they aren't going to look through other places for waste b/c that doesn't benefit the country as a whole.
I pointed out a clear inconsistency in your claim of wanting to eliminate waste, fraud, and abused...and you called me insufferable.
 

horshack.sixpack

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For @horshack.sixpack top 1% pays 40% of income tax revenue received by the federal government. MUH FAIR SHARE!!!
I'm unsure what you are yelling about. Rich folks typically find ways to avoid having much "income". Of course they pay on their reported income. Are you suggesting that there aren't loopholes?

Copilot seems to think there are ways...honestly can't believe we are arguing about whether rich people avoid taxes through various strategies...

Here are some of the top examples of how ultra-wealthy individuals legally reduce their tax burdens using various tax shelters and strategies:

1. Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Warren Buffett – The “Buy, Borrow, Die” Strategy

These billionaires avoid selling their stock holdings, which would trigger capital gains taxes. Instead, they borrow against their assets to fund their lifestyles. Loans aren’t considered taxable income, so they can access cash without paying taxes. Upon death, heirs inherit the assets with a stepped-up basis, erasing capital gains [1] [2].

2. Peter Thiel – $5 Billion Roth IRA

Thiel placed undervalued shares of PayPal into a Roth IRA in 1999. As the shares appreciated, the gains remained tax-free. Roth IRAs are designed for middle-class retirement savings, but Thiel’s maneuver allowed him to shield billions from taxes [1].

3. Steve Ballmer – Sports Team Ownership

Ballmer, owner of the LA Clippers, benefits from tax deductions associated with owning a sports franchise. The IRS allows depreciation of player contracts and other assets, even as the team’s value increases. This lets owners report losses and reduce taxable income[1].

4. Real Estate Moguls – Depreciation and Cost Segregation

Wealthy individuals like Donald Trump and Stephen Ross use real estate depreciation to offset income. Cost segregation studies allow accelerated depreciation of building components (e.g., HVAC, lighting), creating large upfront deductions [3] [2].

5. Charitable Foundations – Tax-Efficient Giving

Billionaires often create private foundations. They get immediate tax deductions (up to 30% of AGI) and avoid capital gains taxes by donating appreciated stock. Foundations only need to distribute 5% annually, allowing the rest to grow tax-free[3] [2].

6. Family Offices – Business Deductions

Families with $100M+ in assets can form family offices to manage wealth. These structures allow deductions for investment management, estate planning, and even salaries paid to family members, converting personal expenses into business write-offs [3].

7. Changing Residency – Puerto Rico Tax Benefits

Some wealthy individuals, like Jake and Logan Paul, moved to Puerto Rico to benefit from its unique tax laws. Bona fide residents can avoid U.S. federal income tax on capital gains and pay minimal taxes on dividends and interest [3].

8. Oil & Gas Investments – Massive Deductions

Investing in oil and gas allows billionaires to deduct intangible drilling costs and depletion. These deductions can offset income entirely, making the sector a powerful tax shelter [2].

References
[1] Ten Ways Billionaires Avoid Taxes on an Epic Scale - ProPublica
[2] 5 Ways Billionaires Avoid Taxes: Strategies and Examples
[3] How the rich avoid taxes using loopholes available only to them
 
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Drebin

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Clever indeed. Here are some additional, useful slogans for you to totally boss online discussions: Any questions? I'll wait, Fixed it for you! Try harder, Do better, But you do you, You're so close, Period, Do your homework, Next, Cope, Cope and seethe, Full stop, Hope that helps, Cry more/harder, Read the room, Take the L, Try again, Not gonna read all that, You're new at this, aren't you? Thanks for playing, Cool story,
Jim Carrey Ok GIF
 

mstateglfr

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Name one where we are worse off besides we fired a few people and had to rehire them.

Name one and be very specific on what it is and why.

It didn't matter what DOGE said or how they released it Libs gonna Lib. Proof? building a wall was only bad under trump. Kids in cages was terrible under trump until they found out Obama did it.
A wall that can't be fully built or managed or patrolled is a waste. It is a waste under an R and it is a waste under a D.
Promising another country will pay for the wall is doubling down on the dumb.

Kids in cages is bad under an R or a D.
 

paindonthurt

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I'm unsure what you are yelling about. Rich folks typically find ways to avoid having much "income". Of course they pay on their reported income. Are you suggesting that there aren't loopholes?
Sure there are loop holes. I'd like to eliminate them. THEY STILL PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE. TOP 1% PAYS 45% of all federal tax income revenue.
Copilot seems to think there are ways...honestly can't believe we are arguing about whether rich people avoid taxes through various strategies...

Here are some of the top examples of how ultra-wealthy individuals legally reduce their tax burdens using various tax shelters and strategies:

1. Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Warren Buffett – The “Buy, Borrow, Die” Strategy

These billionaires avoid selling their stock holdings, which would trigger capital gains taxes. Instead, they borrow against their assets to fund their lifestyles. Loans aren’t considered taxable income, so they can access cash without paying taxes. Upon death, heirs inherit the assets with a stepped-up basis, erasing capital gains [1] [2].
How do they pay that loan off? They sell stock to pay it and then they pay taxes. You can't avoid the tax. You can kick the can down the road but you can't avoid it.

2. Peter Thiel – $5 Billion Roth IRA

Thiel placed undervalued shares of PayPal into a Roth IRA in 1999. As the shares appreciated, the gains remained tax-free. Roth IRAs are designed for middle-class retirement savings, but Thiel’s maneuver allowed him to shield billions from taxes [1].
I get to do this too. Its not just rich people. There is a very low limit of what you can put in a roth IRA also.

8. Oil & Gas Investments – Massive Deductions

Investing in oil and gas allows billionaires to deduct intangible drilling costs and depletion. These deductions can offset income entirely, making the sector a powerful tax shelter [2].
This isn't really true. Either you make money on the deal or you don't If you make money you pay taxes. I'm invested in several oil and gas deals. Its not just for rich people. Its no different than if i go build a spec home for $200,000 and sell it for $250,000. I pay taxes on $50,000. Not $250,000.
 

OG Goat Holder

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We haven't fired enough of them.

The problem isn't number of employees. It's what those employees are focused on.
Their job is review tax returns and make sure everybody pays the correct amount, according to the law.

Your quarrel is not with the employees.
 

paindonthurt

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A wall that can't be fully built or managed or patrolled is a waste. It is a waste under an R and it is a waste under a D.
Promising another country will pay for the wall is doubling down on the dumb.

Kids in cages is bad under an R or a D.
Except none of you said anything when the Ds were doing the kids in cages and building the same GD wall but it was non stop 24/7 when trump did it.

And mexico did help pay for the wall. When Mexico starts securing the border and it eliminates the need for some of the the US border patrol expenses you save money. That money helps fund a wall. Do you get it now?

Like in manufacturing when I say this new equipment will pay for itself. I don't really mean the new piece of equipment is going to cut a check to the company. Do you understand that?
 

paindonthurt

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Their job is review tax returns and make sure everybody pays the correct amount, according to the law.

Your quarrel is not with the employees.
If they aren't doing their job and dont get fired for not doing it, my quarrel is absolutely with them.
 

mstateglfr

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Because you are.
OK.

I am insufferable for pointing out a clear inconsistency in your claim of supporting a reduction in waste, fraud, and abuse.

Your views on social, economic, and political issues are are consistently inconsistent and arbitrary.
 

mstateglfr

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Except none of you said anything when the Ds were doing the kids in cages and building the same GD wall but it was non stop 24/7 when trump did it.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

I am not responsible for and do not speak for some massive group of people.
All I can say is that I view a wall which can never be completed nor staffed dumb. And I do not think it should be putting cages.

And mexico did help pay for the wall. When Mexico starts securing the border and it eliminates the need for some of the the US border patrol expenses you save money. That money helps fund a wall. Do you get it now?

Like in manufacturing when I say this new equipment will pay for itself. I don't really mean the new piece of equipment is going to cut a check to the company. Do you understand that?
This is some very impressive, mental, gymnastics, and creative accounting.

You missed your calling. You should have been running audits for Enron and WorldCom. they never would have been caught if you had been in charge and use this sort of reasoning.

Trump promised Mexico would pay for the wall 9 years ago.
Mexico did not pay for the wall.
Claiming that a reduction in patrol costs now, is proof Mexico payed for the wall, is one of the dumbest things you have claimed this week.
 

paindonthurt

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OK.

I am insufferable for pointing out a clear inconsistency in your claim of supporting a reduction in waste, fraud, and abuse.

Your views on social, economic, and political issues are are consistently inconsistent and arbitrary.
Sure
 

paindonthurt

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Two wrongs don't make a right.

I am not responsible for and do not speak for some massive group of people.
All I can say is that I view a wall which can never be completed nor staffed dumb. And I do not think it should be putting cages.
But you didn't care when it was done by other people. Only when Orange man did it.
This is some very impressive, mental, gymnastics, and creative accounting.
Actual its the way a lot of things get paid for in everyday life. You invest in something that saves you money so therefore it pays for itself. We used leverage against Mexico so they started helping us secure the border which saved us money which helped pay for the wall. Its really not a hard concept.

It was also a campaign slogan. OH THE HORROR!!
Trump promised Mexico would pay for the wall 9 years ago.
Mexico did not pay for the wall.
Claiming that a reduction in patrol costs now, is proof Mexico payed for the wall, is one of the dumbest things you have claimed this week.
Obama claimed you'd be able to keep your current insurance and your current doctor. Did you get your ****** as chapped about that?
 

mstateglfr

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But you didn't care when it was done by other people. Only when Orange man did it.
Clown. I have said multiple times now that a wall was dumb and caged kids is bad. That holds true for an R or D in the WH. You claimed 'none of you' care, I told you I dont speak for others, and I reiterated my view. Despite that reiteration, you now just claimed I dont care.

I will say this yet again- a wall is dumb and caged kids is bad, regardless of who is in office.

Actual its the way a lot of things get paid for in everyday life. You invest in something that saves you money so therefore it pays for itself. We used leverage against Mexico so they started helping us secure the border which saved us money which helped pay for the wall. Its really not a hard concept.

It was also a campaign slogan. OH THE HORROR!!
Trump did not promise that Mexico would pay for the wall through passive reduction in US border security costs 8-9 years later.
You should feel shame for even typing this stupid attempt at a point.

Additionally, $3.715B was for border security in 2017. $4.899B was for border security in 2024.
Adjusted for inflation, that is an increase of $180MM.

Seeing as how we are in the middle of 2025 so actual costs for this year cant be known, what data are you using to support your claim that border patrol costs have dropped and Mexico is therefore paying for the wall?
I am not sure where to even find a breakdown of the overall border security into the various borders that are secured...yet you have confidently claimed costs are down, therefore Mexico paid.

Obama claimed you'd be able to keep your current insurance and your current doctor. Did you get your ****** as chapped about that?
What in the absolutely 17 are you talking about? This has nothing to do with the IRS, Border security, or any of the other stuff you have ranted about.
You have once again totally lost the plot.

Since you brought it up though, I was firmly against the ACA due to the requirement that individuals are forced to participated in the stream of economics as a result. I hated that and I still hate that. I think it is a fundamentally flawed concept. To my core, I do not think people should be forced, by law, to participate in the stream of economics and financially support for-profit companies.

Oh, and I kept my insurance and doctor, for what that is worth.
 

paindonthurt

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Clown. I have said multiple times now that a wall was dumb and caged kids is bad. That holds true for an R or D in the WH. You claimed 'none of you' care, I told you I dont speak for others, and I reiterated my view. Despite that reiteration, you now just claimed I dont care.
Clown, pipe up sooner next time.
You know whats worse than kids in cages getting 3 meals a day and being safe? 17ing child rape.

Trump did not promise that Mexico would pay for the wall through passive reduction in US border security costs 8-9 years later.You should feel shame for even typing this stupid attempt at a point.
You should feel ashamed that you said trump PROMISED. Since you are trying to be extremely literal find anywhere he is quoting as PROMISING IT.

Rest of it TLDR.
 

Podgy

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Obama claimed you'd be able to keep your current insurance and your current doctor. Did you get your ****** as chapped about that?
That really is MAGA. Loyalty to a man because whatabout that dude. No one should really wonder why Bernie Thompson has strong support from a segment of the electorate. He's their guy no matter what. After all, there was slavery and Jim Crow segregation so that's why he's there guy and maybe some other things. Anyone can make up reasons for doing something.
 
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paindonthurt

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That really is MAGA. Loyalty to a man because whatabout that dude. No one should really wonder why Bernie Thompson has strong support from a segment of the electorate. He's their guy.
You know what is really TDS.

Hating someone regardless of the positive things he's done b/c orangeman bad. Name the exact policies you don't like.
 

Podgy

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Clown, pipe up sooner next time.
You know whats worse than kids in cages getting 3 meals a day and being safe? 17ing child rape.


You should feel ashamed that you said trump PROMISED. Since you are trying to be extremely literal find anywhere he is quoting as PROMISING IT.

Rest of it TLDR.
Are you saying Trump lied about something? I don't believe that. He's not the type of person who would ever lie about something important.***
Cue: What about Obama, Biden, Harris lying about yada, yada, yada.
 

paindonthurt

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Are you saying Trump lied about something? I don't believe that. He's not the type of person who would ever lie about something important.***
Cue: What about Obama, Biden, Harris lying about yada, yada, yada.
Go ahead and name the policy you don't like. Be specific on the policy and why.

We'll wait.
 

mstateglfr

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Rest of it TLDR.
That means you chose to not read my comments about Obamacare. I stated that I fundamentally disagreed with the ACA when it was set up, and I still disagree with it.

You get all pissed off and assume stuff, and that is important because you aren’t willing to read.

The other part you chose not to read is me questioning how you know that order patrol cost are down
 

paindonthurt

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That means you chose to not read my comments about Obamacare. I stated that I fundamentally disagreed with the ACA when it was set up, and I still disagree with it.

You get all pissed off and assume stuff, and that is important because you aren’t willing to read.

The other part you chose not to read is me questioning how you know that order patrol cost are down
I'm not pissed off at all. I think its hilarious how hypocritcal you all are.
 

Podgy

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You know what is really TDS.

Hating someone regardless of the positive things he's done b/c orangeman bad. Name the exact policies you don't like.
TDS, Cry Harder...Fart

His economy was good for the first three years of his first term, Operation Warp Speed was great, he's generally anti-war and he's anti-woke, I like that as well. He's not the only Republican Party so it's not like he's essential. DeSantis would have beaten Kamala. Trump appointed a bunch of incompetent toadies who just genuflect before him and cabinet meetings look like something out of North Korea with Dear Leader being effusively praised.

Trump is also incredibly corrupt, he lies just about everything, his behavior is reprehensible, it's worse than any prominent Dem which is why he doesn't want the Epstein stuff released (Dems were protecting Clinton but they no longer need to), he treats our allies disrespectfully, he's got some weird fascination with tariffs and he's old AF. In 2016 he was alert. Now he's moving into Biden territory and speaks like a middle schooler but he rambles more and can't maintain focus on an idea. You can also deal with wokeness, government downsizing and illegal immigration without the harshness of ICE. Obama deported millions and Clinton reduced the size of the govt rationally instead the idiocy of DOGE (FYI, I know veterans who use the VA and people and docs who work for the VA. DOGE is FOS).

And MAGA is a bizarre personality cult of Dale Gribbles who buy all sorts of tasteless swag and don't know anything. I suspect they don't own many books. They advertise themselves in MAGA swag just like blue-haired feminists on college campuses do. When you see them you already know 99% of their political beliefs.

You'd have gotten all the good stuff with DeSantis without the nonsense and reputation damage Trump is doing. Trump won because the Dems ran two unlikeable candidates: Hillary and the utterly clueless Kamala. But his strongest supporters somehow things he's Godlike because being anti-lib and owning the libz is what's important.

I'd actually like a president who addresses the nation as "My fellow Americans" instead "Dear MAGA Patriots and even you loser scum..."
 

paindonthurt

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TDS, Cry Harder...Fart

His economy was good for the first three years of his first term, Operation Warp Speed was great, he's generally anti-war and he's anti-woke, I like that as well. He's not the only Republican Party so it's not like he's essential. DeSantis would have beaten Kamala. Trump appointed a bunch of incompetent toadies who just genuflect before him and cabinet meetings look like something out of North Korea with Dear Leader being effusively praised.

Trump is also incredibly corrupt, he lies just about everything, his behavior is reprehensible, it's worse than any prominent Dem which is why he doesn't want the Epstein stuff released (Dems were protecting Clinton but they no longer need to), he treats our allies disrespectfully, he's got some weird fascination with tariffs and he's old AF. In 2016 he was alert. Now he's moving into Biden territory and speaks like a middle schooler but he rambles more and can't maintain focus on an idea. You can also deal with wokeness, government downsizing and illegal immigration without the harshness of ICE. Obama deported millions and Clinton reduced the size of the govt rationally instead the idiocy of DOGE (FYI, I know veterans who use the VA and people and docs who work for the VA. DOGE is FOS).

And MAGA is a bizarre personality cult of Dale Gribbles who buy all sorts of tasteless swag and don't know anything. I suspect they don't own many books. They advertise themselves in MAGA swag just like blue-haired feminists on college campuses do. When you see them you already know 99% of their political beliefs.

You'd have gotten all the good stuff with DeSantis without the nonsense and reputation damage Trump is doing. Trump won because the Dems ran two unlikeable candidates: Hillary and the utterly clueless Kamala. But his strongest supporters somehow things he's Godlike because being anti-lib and owning the libz is what's important.

I'd actually like a president who addresses the nation as "My fellow Americans" instead "Dear MAGA Patriots and even you loser scum..."
TLDR

one policy you don’t like and why. Just one!!
 

Podgy

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TLDR

one policy you don’t like and why. Just one!!
Tariffs although he constantly caves, ICE raids, anti-science stand against Harvard and other universities, appt of that anti-science ree tard RFK, BBE is gonna increase the national debt, DOGE, pardoning all Jan 6ers, cronyism... just getting starting. All of the things I like could have been done by a less reprehensible person. At least Trump has made the Republicans stop acting like they're the party of family values.

I get that he's given some ordinary Americans and some white working class folks a boost of self-confidence after years of being denigrated by white liberals. I understand the emotional part of Trump's appeal for certain white Americans who've been shite on by their college-educated co-ethnics and have been routinely called racists and blamed for America's ills. I know white liberals genuinely hate the white working class and MAGA so supporting Trump is one way to get back at them.
 
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paindonthurt

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Tariffs although he constantly caves, ICE raids, anti-science stand against Harvard and other universities, appt of that anti-science ree tard RFK, BBE is gonna increase the national debt, DOGE, pardoning all Jan 6ers, cronyism... just getting starting. All of the things I like could have been done by a less reprehensible person. At least Trump has made the Republicans stop acting like they're the party of family values.

I get that he's given some ordinary Americans and some white working class folks a boost of self-confidence after years of being denigrated by white liberals. I understand the emotional part of Trump's appeal for certain white Americans who've been shite on by their college-educated co-ethnics and have been routinely called racists and blamed for America's ills. I know white liberals genuinely hate the white working class and MAGA so supporting Trump is one way to get back at them.
TLDR

ONE
O
N
E
1

and WHY!!
 

Podgy

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Dude, you don't have to type that. I already know you barely read.
 

Podgy

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Uh, I don't care for tariffs because it makes my butt itch. Do you not know what tariffs are and what they do?
 

Jacknut

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I love the ASSumption that just six months ago the IRS was a well oiled machine and now it's a shambles because Orange Man Bad. Please go on.
 

Podgy

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I love the ASSumption that just six months ago the IRS was a well oiled machine and now it's a shambles because Orange Man Bad. Please go on.
Who wrote that the IRS was a well oiled machine? I didn't see that in any post.