Just curious - how far can't Laviano throw now?

[RU4Real]

When we started the season the criticism from some was that Laviano couldn't throw more than 6 yards downfield.

Last week I was reading that he couldn't throw more than 20 yards downfield.

In a thread posted after last night's game he was taking flack for not being able to throw more than "30 - 40" yards down the field.

Given that the 39 yard TD to Carroo was an easy 50 through the air and perfectly placed, I'm wondering how far Laviano can't throw now.

 

[Scarlet5]

laviano played his best game thus far...but to say the long one to Carroo was perfectly placed is incorrect. the ball was under thrown big time. we are lucky the corner stumbled or it would've been picked

 

[RU4Real]

laviano played his best game thus far...but to say the long one to Carroo was perfectly placed is incorrect. the ball was under thrown big time. we are lucky the corner stumbled or it would've been picked

Watching it closely I didn't feel like the ball was accidentally overthrown. I'm starting to get a very strong sense that Laviano and Carroo have a rhythm - it's understood that Leonte will take the coverage deep and then come back for the ball. That's what it looked like.

Regardless, it was a good throw - and he made several good throws last night. Mental miscues aside, I think maybe people should start to cut the kid a break. He's doing well for a 1st year starter.

 

[anon1759798318]

Carroo smoked the MSU d backs all night and had to wait for almost every deep pass Laviano threw.

 

[vkj91]

It's funny, for four years I read how people wanted the opposite of NOVA. Well we got it and people are still bitching. I wish he'd take more chances but it's obvious he won't force the issue and very happy to check down

 

[albanyknight]

I agree that Laviano has been unfairly criticized by the fan base. The guy has only started four college games to date. That being said, I think many posters are saying more that Rettig has the bigger upside and a better arm which may or may not be true. The most loved guy on any football team is the back-up QB.

 

[anon1759798318]

and Laviano has the football IQ of a stump.

 

[Caliknight]

Laviano has an obvious lack of arm strength when you watch him compared to peers.

Does this mean he can't be successful? No, but it sure doesn't help.

 

[RU4Real]

and Laviano has the football IQ of a stump.

It's obvious to me that you and your buddy @Plum Street are diligently working on a banning.

I wish you continued success with that.

 

[ScarletNYC]

Funny, considering he underthew Caroo's 3rd TD.

 

[RUMcMahon]

CL played well yesterday except for a few minor miscues and a major gaffe. But his deep ball is a duck.

 

[S_Janowski]

Laviano played a great game but there's no question his arm lacks zip and strength.

 

[brgossRU90]

Laviano had by far his best game last night but the return of carroo, and the fact that he blew away the msu secondary, played a big part. Take away carroo, or say carroo has a lousy night, and there weren't a lot of great connections to other receivers last night. If osu, michigan or anyone else effectively neutralizes carroo we might see a lot more games like penn state going forward.

 

[theRU]

When we started the season the criticism from some was that Laviano couldn't throw more than 6 yards downfield.

Last week I was reading that he couldn't throw more than 20 yards downfield.

In a thread posted after last night's game he was taking flack for not being able to throw more than "30 - 40" yards down the field.

Given that the 39 yard TD to Carroo was an easy 50 through the air and perfectly placed, I'm wondering how far Laviano can't throw now.

Come on now... you have to admit his arm is not strong. I said this before, Laviano can obviously dial up a fast ball, he can also throw deep if he wants to. The issue is that it take maximum effort to do so, or premeditation. He can't really zip it in there when he is on the move which is why i feel i'd rather take my lumps with Rettig. There is a difference between guys who can effortlessly throw darts, and changes the way a D needs to play against you.

I think that is what the pro rettig crowd sees and you really can't blame them for wanting to plan for the future with the guy who has bigger upside.

If we had a team of veterans and we could survive with a game manager, it might be a different call.

 

[IL Lusciato]

Come on now... you have to admit his arm is not strong. I said this before, Laviano can obviously dial up a fast ball, he can also throw deep if he wants to. The issue is that it take maximum effort to do so, or premeditation. He can't really zip it in there when he is on the move which is why i feel i'd rather take my lumps with Rettig. There is a difference between guys who can effortlessly throw darts, and changes the way a D needs to play against you.

I think that is what the pro rettig crowd sees and you really can't blame them for wanting to plan for the future with the guy who has bigger upside.

If we had a team of veterans and we could survive with a game manager, it might be a different call.

I can deny it and I will. You make generalizations. But ingot proof. 3 TDs no INTs very efficient QB rating. Solid scrambles. You got criticizing TD passes and a kid on the bench with all speculation.

 

[theRU]

I can deny it and I will. You make generalizations. But ingot proof. 3 TDs no INTs very efficient QB rating. Solid scrambles. You got criticizing TD passes and a kid on the bench with all speculation.

stat watching is just as bad.

Subtract carroo and our QB doesn't exist.

 

[NotInRHouse_anon]

The way Laviano locks on to Carroo is going to cause problems against more aggressive defenses.

He had a decent game but he really makes some questionable plays at times.

Like anything else, it's coaching.

 

[theRU]

87 of 124 for 1002 with 9 td and 5 int season totals

carroo 14 rec for 315 and 6 tds... you do the math.

 

[RUChoppin]

There's clearly a reason that the deep ball is almost entirely absent from our playbook. We don't spread the field, and the defense doesn't have to respect that.

 

[theRU]

There's clearly a reason that the deep ball is almost entirely absent from our playbook. We don't spread the field, and the defense doesn't have to respect that.

SHHHHH.... your post is way to logical and you'll be banned for being anti rutgers

 

[ScarletNYC]

I can deny it and I will. You make generalizations. But ingot proof. 3 TDs no INTs very efficient QB rating. Solid scrambles. You got criticizing TD passes and a kid on the bench with all speculation.

It's funny because you disappeared during his really bad games. Now he doesn't have a terrible game and you pop up.

 

[IL Lusciato]

It's funny because you disappeared during his really bad games. Now he doesn't have a terrible game and you pop up.

Haha nah. I been here all along. I just like messing around with you malcontents when your California schoolgirl fantasies are more pronounced such as after performances like this by CL. Seriously ud think CL played for Penn state or f'd your wives.

It's gone from understandable optimism about a transelfer, to down right weird at this point.

 

[IL Lusciato]

87 of 124 for 1002 with 9 td and 5 int season totals

carroo 14 rec for 315 and 6 tds... you do the math.

So the best WR on the team should make less of a contrivution? So Hayden Rettig would have thrown bombs to tsmis maybe?

Best WR in big ten....Laviano sucks.

Best WR big ten....Rettig is a superstar. .

Best WR in the big ten.... Nah its not computing cheif.

 

[BrunswickBob]

Fair point in the original post. But the fact that it was crafted in a way that guarantees another conversation that devolves into mindless drivel makes it fairly suckish. Pardon my French.

The only reason to read this board for the most part is morbid curiosity regarding how dumb and immature people who use message boards are capable of behaving.

 

[RU4Real]

A couple other statistical curiosities (with apologies to those who have declared that such things don't count)...

Laviano is on a pace to just squeak by Ryan Hart's record for number of completions in a season (295). The most Gary Nova had was 221, in 2012 - only 97 more than Laviano has now, after 4 1/2 games.

He's also on a pace to rack up 2400 yards passing, which would put him 8th on the RU all time list for passing yards in a single season.

There are obviously a lot of people who are just never going to be in the kid's camp, but I think it's high time that we start to treat the people who say he's terrible for the obvious miserable trolls that they are.

 

[RutgersRaRa]

Here are the updated B1G stats (defense, offense, STs) in case you want to see. For those still slamming CL, knock it off. The kid has started five games amid turmoil that very few have experienced, so take a minute to check some stats on him. Just as stats don't tell the whole picture, neither does arm strength, and I'll take stats as a more reliable indicator than zip on the ball.

As for those who think that arm strength makes a QB, when Savage, Natale, and D.C. Jefferson were here, D.C. had the strongest arm by far--he could throw it about 80 yards. There's a reason he was moved to TE, and arm strength wasn't the reason.

 

[BrunswickBob]

The funny thing is, treating people who are idiots like trolls is, a) trolling and b) troll inducing. But hey, whatever gives you a sense of satisfaction is a personal decision, I suppose.

 

[Sooner4RU]

Agreed....arm lacks zip, especially after watching Connor Cook last night. Seems like it takes a long time for the ball to get to the receiver.

 

[RU05]

Laviano played a great game but there's no question his arm lacks zip and strength.

1st TD to Carroo lacked zip?

Not a big gun, but people way overplay the lack of arm strength issue.

 

[RU#1fan]

Carroo smoked the MSU d backs all night and had to wait for almost every deep pass Laviano threw.

His passes are continuously underthrown or not on target.
The WRs are bailing him out by making outstanding adjustments to catch the ball. Outstanding ,athletic efforts by Caroo and Patton.

 

[NotInRHouse_anon]

A couple other statistical curiosities (with apologies to those who have declared that such things don't count)...

Laviano is on a pace to just squeak by Ryan Hart's record for number of completions in a season (295). The most Gary Nova had was 221, in 2012 - only 97 more than Laviano has now, after 4 1/2 games.

He's also on a pace to rack up 2400 yards passing, which would put him 8th on the RU all time list for passing yards in a single season.

There are obviously a lot of people who are just never going to be in the kid's camp, but I think it's high time that we start to treat the people who say he's terrible for the obvious miserable trolls that they are.

The problem I think is 1) that is against some really bad competition, last night aside (MSU likely overranked but still a good team) and 2) the costly mistakes in the rest of the games, INTs, fumbles- one last night which he recovered.

For all the complaints about Nova and Teel, they had a few games which were truly outstanding- like Teel against Pitt in 08, Nova in blackouts, where they basically took the team on their shoulders and led.

Perhaps too much to ask of Laviano just yet. I'm not in the camp of it's on all him- there are so many other more glaring problems- but I would like to see what he does next week against a middling team on the road with questionable defense- before I am ready to say he could get this team to 6 wins- which would be quite a feat given the other issues which are not on him at all.

 

[theRU]

So the best WR on the team should make less of a contrivution? So Hayden Rettig would have thrown bombs to tsmis maybe?

Best WR in big ten....Laviano sucks.

Best WR big ten....Rettig is a superstar. .

Best WR in the big ten.... Nah its not computing cheif.

There is no point in trying to have a logical discussion with people on this board.

 

[RUChoppin]

There are obviously a lot of people who are just never going to be in the kid's camp, but I think it's high time that we start to treat the people who say he's terrible for the obvious miserable trolls that they are.

I don't think he's terrible, for the record. I think he's a good QB - and I don't know if Rettig would be any better, to be honest.

What I don't understand is some strange things in the playcalling.

The deep ball is a very rare thing, and that's odd. We have Carroo, who is a superstar WR and established deep threat. We have Agudosi, who is a 6'6" long body with speed. We have Grant, who can very likely get a step on about any CB on a fly route. We have Patton, who's another big body. Yet.... we don't put balls up for our WRs to come down with deep. Lots of deep ball tools in the toolbox, but we don't use them.

Even stranger is the idea that Carroo/Agudosi is an either/or concept. Why don't we have both of them on the field at the same time? Knowing Carroo is a superstar, why aren't we trying to work Agudosi in with him, rather than keeping him on the bench? Is having two deep threats in the game at the same time out of the playbook because it doesn't leave us with enough short range options?

So.... is this on McDaniels just being unable to run an offense that stretches the field? Is it Laviano checking out of deep plays at the line? Is it McDaniels not calling deep plays because he has less confidence in his QB's ability to deliver those balls? Is it something else?

It's obvious the impact of not taking shots down field, though. We limit our big play potential. We let the defenses cheat into the <15 yard range, which makes it harder to throw short passes and slants, and lets the defense get there faster when we throw to the flat. It limits the playbook on third and long (throwing <10 yards when it's 3rd and 15+ means you've already decided to punt, and are just looking for some better field position.)

So again.... Why? Is it some lacking on the part of Laviano, or some lacking on the part of McDaniels? Because it's obvious that it's a lacking on the part of our offense as a whole.

 

[theRU]

1st TD to Carroo lacked zip?

Not a big gun, but people way overplay the lack of arm strength issue.

again its not about 1 throw...

We can debate whether or not CL is a serviceable QB. His arm strength is not debatable. You take a play where he had one read and loaded up to zip that in there, but you ignore countless throws that lack strength. How many outs does he throw with juice on them? How many throws to the flat take too long to get there?

It has to be affecting our play calling...and it has to affect the way a D plays us.

My point about Carroo earlier, was that look at what happens when you take him out of the game. We looked inept against PSU. Maybe thats on the QB, maybe not. But you can't ignore that there some smoke out there...

 

[RU_DIO]

Laviano has done ok. In fact, after the first few series yesterday, he played good.

People that watch practices say that Rettig has star potential while Laviano has a much lower ceiling.

Why wouldn't the fan base want the guy with star potential learning on the job instead of developing the other prospect who has a weak arm?

 

[theRU]

I don't think he's terrible, for the record. I think he's a good QB - and I don't know if Rettig would be any better, to be honest.

What I don't understand is some strange things in the playcalling.

The deep ball is a very rare thing, and that's odd. We have Carroo, who is a superstar WR and established deep threat. We have Agudosi, who is a 6'6" long body with speed. We have Grant, who can very likely get a step on about any CB on a fly route. We have Patton, who's another big body. Yet.... we don't put balls up for our WRs to come down with deep. Lots of deep ball tools in the toolbox, but we don't use them.

Even stranger is the idea that Carroo/Agudosi is an either/or concept. Why don't we have both of them on the field at the same time? Knowing Carroo is a superstar, why aren't we trying to work Agudosi in with him, rather than keeping him on the bench? Is having two deep threats in the game at the same time out of the playbook because it doesn't leave us with enough short range options?

So.... is this on McDaniels just being unable to run an offense that stretches the field? Is it Laviano checking out of deep plays at the line? Is it McDaniels not calling deep plays because he has less confidence in his QB's ability to deliver those balls? Is it something else?

It's obvious the impact of not taking shots down field, though. We limit our big play potential. We let the defenses cheat into the <15 yard range, which makes it harder to throw short passes and slants, and lets the defense get there faster when we throw to the flat. It limits the playbook on third and long (throwing <10 yards when it's 3rd and 15+ means you've already decided to punt, and are just looking for some better field position.)

So again.... Why? Is it some lacking on the part of Laviano, or some lacking on the part of McDaniels? Because it's obvious that it's a lacking on the part of our offense as a whole.

I could not agree more with the above, something is wrong. We can only speculate.

If we had a national champ caliber team that was loaded, could we win with CL? Probably, but when you have weaknesses like we do you have to play the guy who can threaten you. I dont see CL as a threat. As far as Rettig, we'll never know will we? But i would like to at least get him out there and see. Especially in a game like PSU where we were getting smoked.

 

[brgossRU90]

Stats matter but sometimes you have to look deeper than a large and general number. Laviano has a high completion percentage, but how many of those passes are dumped off at or behind the LOS (ultra safe and often for little yardage) versus down field? What is his completion percentage down field at various distances? He might have a high completion percentage 1 to 10 yards out, low 11 to 20 yards out and dismal beyond that--or the numbers might be completely different. Someone has to watch play by play and tabulate the stats that really matter.

 

[RU#1fan]

RU has not won any games because of CL's arm.
Albeit 5 games into his career there is a long way to go.
Mental blunders are numerous and while expected as a RS Frosh they are continuous.

His pass on the first play of the 2nd Qtr (TD pass to Caroo) was probably his best pass as a RU QB to date.

 

[RU05]

again its not about 1 throw...

We can debate whether or not CL is a serviceable QB. His arm strength is not debatable. He take a play where he had one read and loaded up to zip that in there, but you ignore countless throws that lack strength. How many outs does he throw with juice on them? How many throws to the flat take too long to get there?

It has to be affecting our play calling...and it has to affect the way a D plays us.

My point about Carroo earlier, was that look at what happens when you take him out of the game. We looked inept against PSU. Maybe thats on the QB, maybe not. But you can't ignore that there some smoke out there...

But if he shows he can throw the ball with zip, then he can throw ball with zip. Truthfully i'm not seeing all these weak armed butterfly passes people are talking about. We've seen a reluctance to throw the ball down the field, and no question he is not a big armed qb, but I've read a bunch of times where has no zip. It's not true. He can throw the short and intermediate ball with authority.

 

[lighty]

he's had wide open receivers down field every game. If he would have even attempted a few of the long passes he had yesterday, the criticism would have been heavily muted.

He still doesn't look confident throwing long than 7-8 yards, but it's nice to see him try.