Love Neal Brown but

[Woodie_rivals56930]

Not to crazy about the play calling. One coach calling plays outside the red zone and another calling plays inside the red zone. Maybe my recollection is somewhat fuzzy but we were terrible on our 3 and 4 and one attempts ie, Brown off right side
for no gain. IMHO like to see someone a little more creative doing the play calling. I realize dropped passes often put us in a just needing a yard position but running basically the same play won’t get the job done when needed. Believe we converted several 4th and ones but I just
remember the ones we didn’t.

 

[SeronimusPratt]

Not to crazy about the play calling. One coach calling plays outside the red zone and another calling plays inside the red zone. Maybe my recollection is somewhat fuzzy but we were terrible on our 3 and 4 and one attempts ie, Brown off right side
for no gain. IMHO like to see someone a little more creative doing the play calling. I realize dropped passes often put us in a just needing a yard position but running basically the same play won’t get the job done when needed. Believe we converted several 4th and ones but I just
remember the ones we didn’t.

agree with this, however it seemed like some of his players couldn't master the basics like catching and blocking so why get fancy.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Not to crazy about the play calling. One coach calling plays outside the red zone and another calling plays inside the red zone. Maybe my recollection is somewhat fuzzy but we were terrible on our 3 and 4 and one attempts ie, Brown off right side
for no gain. IMHO like to see someone a little more creative doing the play calling. I realize dropped passes often put us in a just needing a yard position but running basically the same play won’t get the job done when needed. Believe we converted several 4th and ones but I just
remember the ones we didn’t.

Perhaps you should apply for OC and put that couch coaching to good use.

 

[Woodie_rivals56930]

Perhaps you should apply for OC and put that couch coaching to good use.

There we go raining on some one’s parade. Gee guess any opinion qualifies to make a poster a couch coach. Do you have any thing positive to offer or just want to get in a spitting contest which l’m sure you would win?

 

[Nova Mountaineer]

Not to crazy about the play calling. One coach calling plays outside the red zone and another calling plays inside the red zone. Maybe my recollection is somewhat fuzzy but we were terrible on our 3 and 4 and one attempts ie, Brown off right side
for no gain. IMHO like to see someone a little more creative doing the play calling. I realize dropped passes often put us in a just needing a yard position but running basically the same play won’t get the job done when needed. Believe we converted several 4th and ones but I just
remember the ones we didn’t.

agree play calling often as boring as a fart in the desert.

 

[WVUALLEN]

There we go raining on some one’s parade. Gee guess any opinion qualifies to make a poster a couch coach. Do you have any thing positive to offer or just want to get in a spitting contest which l’m sure you would win?

Do you think you're smart enough to give a college coach advice on how to coach?

You gave your opinion. I gave mine. Or does that only work one side?

 

[Woodie_rivals56930]

Do you think you're smart enough to give a college coach advice on how to coach?

You gave your opinion. I gave mine. Or does that only work one side?

Sorry told the coach “how not to coach” yes on 3rd and long I could not do any worst. Again my recall was having to settle for FGs in the red zone which I’m sure didn’t help the cause. Believe you were somewhat in agreement with your 1st reply and then things went down hill. Oh well!

 

[WVUALLEN]

Sorry told the coach “how not to coach” yes on 3rd and long I could not do any worst. Again my recall was having to settle for FGs in the red zone which I’m sure didn’t help the cause. Believe you were somewhat in agreement with your 1st reply and then things went down hill. Oh well!

Thanks. Your opinion is appreciated. I'll try not to be defensive. So many times critique is misunderstood by the way it is written.

 

[locustwv]

Just call the “draw”. Works every time

 

[spartansstink]

Just call the “draw”. Works every time

Don, is that you?

Don Nehlen's in the house!:fistbump:

 

[Woodie_rivals56930]

Thanks. Your opinion is appreciated. I'll try not to be defensive. So many times critique is misunderstood by the way it is written.

Fair Enough

 

[SeronimusPratt]

anybody old enough to remember the Don Nehlen "up the middle-o-meter" lol believe it was always in the corner of the stadium, lower level across from section 121 I believe when we sat in 124

 

[LHANDSDC]

Don, is that you?

Don Nehlen's in the house!:fistbump:

Lol. Nice

 

[Mountain Man_rivals148431]

Do you think you're smart enough to give a college coach advice on how to coach?

You gave your opinion. I gave mine. Or does that only work one side?

I'm not a coach either, but it doesn't take a Vince Lombardi or a Knute Rockne to see simple adjustments one can make and mismatches to take advantage of.

 

[WVUALLEN]

I'm not a coach either, but it doesn't take a Vince Lombardi or a Knute Rockne to see simple adjustments one can make and mismatches to take advantage of.

Yeah because it's so easy to do right. We should higher anyone off the streets and save ourselves millions. The AD should think of this next time we hire.

 

[Buckaineer]

Offensive play calling is the problem. WVU is not going to be successful very often scoring under 20 pts.

11 of 22 games, 50% WVU has scored only 20 pts or less under Brown so far.

WVU lost 9 of those 11 games.

 

[LHANDSDC]

Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that a poster here does have a good idea for play calling. It is an entire different world on that field with the stadium, the behind the scenes pressure, self induced pressure, and all the potential revenue staring at you to make the correct calls. This is where things change... drastically. Like the spring practice hero's who disappear during the season.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

I'm not a coach either, but it doesn't take a Vince Lombardi or a Knute Rockne to see simple adjustments one can make and mismatches to take advantage of.

THE KEY ALWAYS ... ALWAYS ... TO CALL A PLAY THAT THE DEFENSE SET UP IS WEAKEST FOR. YOU NEED COACHES SMART ENOUGH TO DO THAT. EVERY PLAY IS STARTING FROM GROUND ZERO, TOO. FOOTBALL IS A CHESS GAME WITH HUMAN BODIES.

 

[spartansstink]

Offensive play calling is the problem. WVU is not going to be successful very often scoring under 20 pts.

11 of 22 games, 50% WVU has scored only 20 pts or less under Brown so far.

WVU lost 9 of those 11 games.

I wouldn't necessarily say the play calling is the problem. Sure, there are times when coaches call plays that defy logic. Nehlen, Rod, Stewart, Holgorsen, they all did.

Mostly though, its more with the execution. For example, we have a QB who has shown he can't take the top off the defense so nobody respects that play. Everyone lines up within12 yards of the LOS and crashes down. That limits your play calling to quick slants, flares to the back, back shoulder hitches, and downhill running plays. Our WR get board hands after a while. It just goes on and on...

Until a QB comes in that the defense respects, either with down field passing or mobility, not much is going to change. It's nickel and dime it down the field and hope you don't make a mistake or get a penalty.

 

[Buckaineer]

I wouldn't necessarily say the play calling is the problem. Sure, there are times when coaches call plays that defy logic. Nehlen, Rod, Stewart, Holgorsen, they all did.

Mostly though, its more with the execution. For example, we have a QB who has shown he can't take the top off the defense so nobody respects that play. Everyone lines up within12 yards of the LOS and crashes down. That limits your play calling to quick slants, flares to the back, back shoulder hitches, and downhill running plays. Our WR get board hands after a while. It just goes on and on...

Until a QB comes in that the defense respects, either with down field passing or mobility, not much is going to change. It's nickel and dime it down the field and hope you don't make a mistake or get a penalty.

When you have the worst rushing attack in D1 year 1 and the 8th most drops in all of college football year two, clearly something is not being coached properly. WVU players ability didn't just suddenly go out the window. Coaching changed.

 

[spartansstink]

See, now you're moving the goalposts.

Still about execution. Didn't execute on the LOS. Linemen were too weak and couldn't sustain blocks. Improved last year but still have a ways to go. Not having a high caliber QB like a Will Grier or Geno Smith has something to do with it also.

Didn't catch the ball. True, has some to do with coaching but also with QB's not able to put ball on the money some also. Throwing too high or low or behind receivers. Still, need some WR's to concentrate a little more because with the QB we have, they are going to get hit.

 

[WVUALLEN]

When you have the worst rushing attack in D1 year 1 and the 8th most drops in all of college football year two, clearly something is not being coached properly. WVU players ability didn't just suddenly go out the window. Coaching changed.

When former staff leaves a dog pile of **** to work with and you still go 5-7 with that crap pile. That's called coaching up.

 

[Rootmaster]

When former staff leaves a dog pile of **** to work with and you still go 5-7 with that crap pile. That's called coaching up.

Excuse file...number 132.

 

[RichardCranium1]

Excuse file...number 132.

#1 clown

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

I’d like to see a bigger emphasis on a vertical TE threat with the offense. I remember Texas tech dominating WVU back with a vertical TE game when Brown was the OC there and they had Jace Amaro back in 2013.

 

[westsiderSJHS77]

Well let’s remember what he has to work with. Nehlen with Major Harris, talented wide receivers, deep stable of running backs and experienced O-line was able to run: option, power I, throw deep and no huddle. They could do practically anything because Nehlen had recruited every position and they all came together.

Doege is no Major Harris. Brown is good, but he is only one. We had AB Brown, Neopolean (sp) and I can’t remember the other guy at RB.

I am willing to let coach Brown build his program with his players and not fault him for not having anything to work with when he arrived.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Excuse file...number 132.

Lame and negativity fan 101
Take your bullahit and leave.

 

[Rootmaster]

Lame and negativity fan 101
Take your bullahit and leave.

Screw you

 

[SeronimusPratt]

Screw you

its gonna take a steak dinner before that happens lol

 

[Rootmaster]

its gonna take a steak dinner before that happens lol

Hilarious....

 

[Mountain Man_rivals148431]

Yeah because it's so easy to do right. We should higher anyone off the streets and save ourselves millions. The AD should think of this next time we hire.

I never said it was easy. I'm saying anyone with football knowledge can see obvious mismatches and how long it takes the coordinators or HC to adjust to them. Coaching is more than playcalling, it's about teaching technique, developing talent, recruiting, conditioning, prepperation, etc. Most AD's usually make the right choice.

 

[WVUALLEN]

I never said it was easy. I'm saying anyone with football knowledge can see obvious mismatches and how long it takes the coordinators or HC to adjust to them. Coaching is more than playcalling, it's about teaching technique, developing talent, recruiting, conditioning, prepperation, etc. Most AD's usually make the right choice.

Who do you think is making the adjustments after a switch? It's not always the coach everytime. Changing plays on an adjustment is about watching hour after hour of game film of the opponent.

The rest has to do with repetition after coaching instruction. In practice.

It's a team game. The fault is 50% coach 50% player.

This coaching staff and players worked their asses off to go 5-7 first year on a team that was projected to go 2-10 with only 1 Big 12 win.

Making adjustments doesn't always mean execution will still be there.

 

[Buckaineer]

See, now you're moving the goalposts.

Still about execution. Didn't execute on the LOS. Linemen were too weak and couldn't sustain blocks. Improved last year but still have a ways to go. Not having a high caliber QB like a Will Grier or Geno Smith has something to do with it also.

Didn't catch the ball. True, has some to do with coaching but also with QB's not able to put ball on the money some also. Throwing too high or low or behind receivers. Still, need some WR's to concentrate a little more because with the QB we have, they are going to get hit.

Having the worst rushing attack in D1 overnight is a problem with coaching, not execution. The coaches coached the players to do things that didn't work.

Same with dropping balls. The coaches were unable to coach the players how to catch it--some of whom had been catching it just fine before.

Ignoring the problems with coaching and trying to transfer it to the players isn't going to win any ballgames.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Having the worst rushing attack in D1 overnight is a problem with coaching, not execution. The coaches coached the players to do things that didn't work.

Same with dropping balls. The coaches were unable to coach the players how to catch it--some of whom had been catching it just fine before.

Ignoring the problems with coaching and trying to transfer it to the players isn't going to win any ballgames.

How's Holgs doing these days with his awesomeness?

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Having the worst rushing attack in D1 overnight is a problem with coaching, not execution. The coaches coached the players to do things that didn't work.

Same with dropping balls. The coaches were unable to coach the players how to catch it--some of whom had been catching it just fine before.

Ignoring the problems with coaching and trying to transfer it to the players isn't going to win any ballgames.

So in 2018 when wvu gave up 45 points to a weak Oklahoma state team that finished 6-6 and then gave up 59 points the following week to Oklahoma is that a problem with coaching? Brown has made vast improvements in wvu's defense.

 

[spartansstink]

Having the worst rushing attack in D1 overnight is a problem with coaching, not execution. The coaches coached the players to do things that didn't work.

Same with dropping balls. The coaches were unable to coach the players how to catch it--some of whom had been catching it just fine before.

Ignoring the problems with coaching and trying to transfer it to the players isn't going to win any ballgames.

Those thoughts are quite right.

There is a lot more that goes into a rushing attack than just coaching.

When you go from Will Grier, an NFL level QB, to one that isn't. That plays a part. One who could pick apart a defense. One that commands respect of the pass on any set of downs. One that threw to upper-classmen who are naturally more productive.

Now, go to not having an NFL level QB on the roster. A roster that didn't develop one but instead relied on transfers from career backups. QB's, who were backups for a reason, who had glaring weaknesses that defenses didn't have to respect.

On top of all that, add in a receiving corps made up of youngsters getting their first starts and experience on the field.

Not much you can rely on as a coach, wouldn't you say?

Now, we agree on the WR coaching. Some drops, such as when you get clobbered going over the middle, are understandable. Happens to everyone. The others, and there were too many, aren't. All things that need to be addressed, from both a player and coach perspective.

But, one area that coaching did improve was on the defensive side. WVU lost two games last year on scoop and scores from the opponents. That's a lot better record and a lot better bowl.

 

[Buckaineer]

So in 2018 when wvu gave up 45 points to a weak Oklahoma state team that finished 6-6 and then gave up 59 points the following week to Oklahoma is that a problem with coaching? Brown has made vast improvements in wvu's defense.

Yes, the defensive coaching was not good in those games.

Wasn't good during Brown's tenure either when WVU gave up 42 to ISU last year, or 34 to a third or fourth string QB from Texas Tech. Wasn't good in 2019 when Brown's team gave up 38 to Missouri, 42 to Texas, 38 to ISU, 52 to Oklahoma in consecutive weeks, and 38 to Texas Tech a couple games later.

Wasn't good when Browns WVU had 5 straight losses either.

But when you only focus on the previous coaches misteps I guess you can ignore those sorts of things.

BTW who really believes Brown wouldn't have given up 50 + against OU last year? Luckily the game was cancelled. Difference with DH, his team also SCORED 41 against @OK State and 45 against playoff bound OU in narrow losses.

 

[spartansstink]

Yes, the defensive coaching was not good in those games.

Wasn't good during Brown's tenure either when WVU gave up 42 to ISU last year, or 34 to a third or fourth string QB from Texas Tech. Wasn't good in 2019 when Brown's team gave up 38 to Missouri, 42 to Texas, 38 to ISU, 52 to Oklahoma in consecutive weeks, and 38 to Texas Tech a couple games later.

Wasn't good when Browns WVU had 5 straight losses either.

But when you only focus on the previous coaches misteps I guess you can ignore those sorts of things.

BTW who really believes Brown wouldn't have given up 50 + against OU last year? Luckily the game was cancelled. Difference with DH, his team also SCORED 41 against @OK State and 45 against playoff bound OU in narrow losses.

You and I have had this discussion before.

You act as if Holgerson's defenses giving up major points was an anomaly. You want to hold Brown to a higher standard than what you held Dana. Completely wrong for you to do that.

You set the standard at 27 points in our last conversation.

Let's get to the numbers, as they say.

1) Brown, in two years, already has half the number of bowl wins as Dana did in 8 years. With weeks to prepare, results show that Dana was ill-equipped to beat a team. One big bowl win, in his first year, (Clemson) wasn't enough to help him keep his job.

2) Holgerson's offenses were, on the average, pretty good most years. For every not so good year there was a great year.

3) Yet, his defenses were just plain awful - year after year.

So, using the standard of 27 points per game (roughly giving up a TD a quarter), Holgerson's defenses gave up more than 27 points per game :

2011 - 5 times (10-3 and Orange Bowl win)

2012 - 9 times ( 7-6 Generally considered the worst WVU defense in recent history)

2013 - 8 times (4-8)

2014 - 8 times (7-6)

2015 - 5 times (8-5 and Cactus Bowl win)

2016 - 4 times (10-3)

2017 - 9 times (7-6)

2018 - 6 times (8-4)

All together, a total of 54 times in 8 years.

This is why Dana isn't still the coach at WVU - he couldn't coach, or bring in one, a defense worthy of winning anything big. Almosts, a few points here or there, etc. etc. obviously didn't cut it. Usually Dana against FBS opponents, had narrow wins and blowout losses.

(These numbers may be off @ 1-2 per year as they do not account for scoop and scores or pick 6's. However, same would also apply to offensive scores so they reasonably would even out)

 

[Euell]

Well let’s remember what he has to work with. Nehlen with Major Harris, talented wide receivers, deep stable of running backs and experienced O-line was able to run: option, power I, throw deep and no huddle. They could do practically anything because Nehlen had recruited every position and they all came together.

Doege is no Major Harris. Brown is good, but he is only one. We had AB Brown, Neopolean (sp) and I can’t remember the other guy at RB.

I am willing to let coach Brown build his program with his players and not fault him for not having anything to work with when he arrived.

Eugene Napolean was 3rd string on the '88 team and was probably good enough to start at most schools in the country. The guy you are not remembering was Undra Johnson. That was one helluva set of tailbacks. Brown transferred to WVU from Pitt which made it all that much sweeter!

 

[Gotadeere]

Eugene Napolean was 3rd string on the '88 team and was probably good enough to start at most schools in the country. The guy you are not remembering was Undra Johnson. That was one helluva set of tailbacks. Brown transferred to WVU from Pitt which made it all that much sweeter!

Add Taylor to that group, all 4 RB’s rushed for a total of 2437 yards with 31 TD’s and no less than 4.9 yards per carry in the 88 season, I was a sophomore in high school that year and was blessed to see every home game, I remember the Penn State game like it was yesterday.