I assume he's talking about people who work(ed) for agencies he believes are wasteful and unnecessary.
LOVE THE COMING DEMOCRATIC SHUMER GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN
- Thread starter PalmettoTiger1
- Start date
At what point is an extremely ridiculous interpretation become the same as making stuff up?
I don't understand the nuclear option and it's legality but I'm confident that dems would lose their minds if republicans used it.
In the post directly above, sounds like you're coming around to the same conclusion that I did and if this isn't proof enough, you're just fooling yourself.
Agencies are not the same as people who didn't vote for him.
I don't know what's in the man's head but here's a good example. The Rural Electrification Administration (REA) was created in 1935 to help bring electricity to rural areas at a time when 90% of farms didn't have access. There are dozens (if not hundreds) of agencies like this and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting that a lot of republicans oppose. I assume those are the ones he would close if he had the authority. But there is ZERO chance that he would pick though the employees based on who they voted for.
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there are some benefits to following the rules. Democrats learned the consequence of changing the rules on approving federal judges: republicans returned the favor in changing the rule for supreme court justices. Now there is a conservative court. I'm not sure either party's efforts were better for the country.
I don't know the legality or advisability of taking that option. If I was a republican congressman I would pass a bill that would fund military and air traffic control wages and let the democrats vote against it.
republicans already passed such a bill - the continuing resolution. Democrats voted against it.
In fact, democrat senators have voted against it 9 times
When faced with a decision and two sides want different things, either one has the power to cave to the other, right?
Having said you never make stuff up
Please work harder to convince me
I am not buying what you are selling
It is an interpretation. You give Trump the benefit of the doubt and read it a way that fits your thoughts of the man. Dpic does not, and read it a way that fits his thoughts of the man.
It is what it is.
absolutely, but isn't "caving" part of the problem? What we're doing right now is creating a situation where one side wins and the other loses. Wouldn't it be better if we created a win-win situation? I'd be willing to wager that you and I could sit down and in about 1/2 hour come to an agreement on most issues. You want subsidies, I want subsidies, so now let's discuss something that makes sense for the American people. Does it make sense to continue total subsidies that were created for the pandemic or does it make sense to approve less than that amount? for how long? How do we "program" the American people so they understand the terms of the subsidy continuation and allow them to plan accordingly
Oh, and what about all these other things thrown in, like PBS, funding for social programs in afrika etc? If I undersatnd, and admittedly, reports are both conflicting and not clear, the subsidies make up $350billion out of the $1.5trillion being demanded. And, again if I understand it, that $350billion is over 10 years. In federal government terms that's "crumbs".
This is not a massive issue in the DC world. It's political. And we've been back and forth on that no benefit in just regurgitating the same thing. Now if democrats are obfuscating their real goal by only highlighting the ACA, that's a different story.
Finally, maybe we need to relook the ACA, It doesn't seem to be accomplishing what we thought it would
To have a win-win, you would have to negotiate. Which I only have seen one side willing to do right now.
At the end of the day, my main point was that we actually agree on this, that they could negotiate, they could agree on something like just the subsidies being extended, but not the rest, and both sides could feel like they won something in the compromise. Which is the goal of government in a lot of ways. Compromise and representing the most American's we can in the process. We have discussed before and you agreed with that. But then every time it is talked about, you then make it a democrat shutdown like you did in the post I was responding to.
Well, from my viewpoint, it's a federal government shutdown. Yes there should have been negotiation at the CR level before we got to this point. And, I'll violate the "whataboutism" that I don't like to do - but only as a rationalization, not as a belief - democrats have done exactly the same thing to republicans in the past and yes republicans have done the same thing to democrats. So both sides have used the same verbiage to blast each other. There is very little civility or comity in the Congress anymore at the political level. These guys have lunch with each other, laugh at each others jokes and go before the TV cameras and tell the American people that members of the other party can't be trusted. I used to lobby at the federal level, I've seen the game.
Right now each side believes they are winning the PR battle with the American people. When that changes, they will negotiate.
One thing that no one has discussed yet is the impact of the Trump voter on this issue. Trump won with votes from the "little guy", the working man. The elites, the masters degree holders have switched from Republican to democrats (Generalization, I know). It's the working man - the Trump voter - are the ones most likely to be impacted by a total end to the extended subsidies. That's why they won't stop. Republicans know it and democrats know it. That's why I've said this is a game. We all know the outcome especially because republicans have already said they intend to renew the subsidies (devil will be in the details).
If the Democrats trusted the Republicans -they don't - they'd just pass the CR and move on to negotiations on the subsidies. If the Republicans/democrats were smart they'd find a way to become "the bigger person" and find a way to open negotiations, letting the American people that they care about the military pay, the airline showdowns and the services important to the American people.
Now just to give my perspective again on why this is a democrat shutdown.
In DC everything is about votes. Right now, republicans have voted to pass the CR. Democrats have not. So, from a strictly vote perspective, the Democrats are the critical path. They hold the power. They have decided to vote 'No". so logically they are not funding the government because they vote "no" on funding the government.
Now I understand the other perspective, and in the past, as I said, republicans have used exactly the same verbiage when they held the government hostage as the Democrats are using now, and vice versa. One side does not have a lock on the "we need negotiation" demand. And I'm sure that democrat supporters know they have the power of the vote and see the critical path as negotiation.
Both sides are at fault, but we are in a who will "cave" first scenario.
sorry for the long post
If you and ned want to start thowing haymakers at each other, let me know and I'll but out,m but I dont' think that statement is completely accurate.
The CR is clean repubs aren't adding new stuff from my understanding. Just keeping the government open for a few more weeks to hash out a true budget. Repubs are saying approve it, keep the gov't open, then we can negotiate. A position that Dems normally agree on. But now they are trying to call out republicans for not "negotiating" over a clean CR when before when the shoe was on the other foot they pinned blame on the republican minority for any shutdowns.
Dems are putting the pain to the american people on purpose as a tactic to try and get additions. It is what it is.
With that said, passing a budget is like the MAIN JOB of congress. One thing that hast be done every year. Not that it would really hurt the entrenched congressmen and senators of either party, but they literally should not be paid nor get back pay anytime they can't do that and the government shuts down.
Edit: I came up with this post all on my own. I didn't cheat and use ned's!
lol I hold no ill will towards Ned at all. Think he knows that. I've only truly been upset on this site once, and it was related to my autistic son.
And I understand all that. I think there is time before the subsidies expire, but insurance companies/etc plan in advance, so it makes sense to take care of it now. And they don't want to kick the can down the road.
Do agree it is also partly political. I know Mike Johnson/McConnell before aren't the only ones to play political games (just cringed thinking of Booker's grandstanding). And I am sure that part of addressing it now is if they get this concession now, they won't have to fight for it in the next budget battle.
It has been 29 years since the federal government passed a complete budget - according to google
we have to remember this CR is only for 7 weeks..we get to go through this again unless they can pass a budget
I am 100% on sunsetting and closing a pile of agencies that no longer have any legitimate reason to exist if private businesses are filling that need
You mentioned REA
Close it down
Public broadcasting close it down as the internet has more than enough people reporting truth and lies
There are plenty more
Just go through the list and cut them out
Nothing to do with who did you vote for but what benefit do you bring to the American people
The Democratic Senators are voting NOT TO FUND THE GOVERNMENT ROUGHLY EVERY FEW DAYS ON A CLEAN CR
I am in favor of staying shutdown till we pass the budgets in regular order
the interesting thing is there are regulations/laws that set out timelines for budget building. Congress, who makes the laws, just ignores them. It's been decades since we had a complete budget
You are totally right
Problem is Congress makes the laws and if they violate the very laws they make they do not put in consequences
For example I did lots of long term multiple phase projects in which we had milestones we had to hit
If Congress were to for example have a Gannt Chart with tasks listed and dates and such that would be a start
To build compliance then there would need to have built in penalties such as shutting off payments to elected officials
I cannot remember all the different laws that Congress exempt themself from but it was or is substantial
That’s the missing magic words consequences and compliance
In theory the American voter is in charge of those two words but problem is what you see on this site every day
There’s the constant bickering and deflection along with public ignorance and apathy
Hopefully we will have more Statesman Democrats like John Fetterman whom i greatly respect now despite my initial reservations.
I don’t claim to be a total independent and lean Republican but try to vote best for America and not best for a party.
And do try to be accurate in any statements I make.
There is a group on here that at the hint of anything Trump go off on a wild rant.
Don’t always like choices of Trump . The question then becomes what IS the BEST CHOICE.
In general Trump’s policies and choices agree with me.
Back to the mob that rants on Trump. There are laws in America as you mentioned. These mad dog ranters are screaming when Trump complies with laws or enforces the laws. The enforcement of laws is under the interpretation and discretion of the duly elected chief law officer of the US which is Trump
We had a vote Trump won Elections have consequences
Nothing wrong with voicing one’s opinion from the
malcontents
Just learn to live with the cards dealt you till the next deal
I cannot remember all the different laws that Congress exempt themself from but it was or is substantial. If I am not mistaken (and correct me if you find otherwise) they don't subject themselves to any of the laws that us "common folks" live by outside of possible felonies.
Hopefully we will have more Statesman Democrats like John Fetterman whom i greatly respect now despite my initial reservations. I could have never saw myself agreeing with you on this but he's the only Dem senator with a brain at this point. Maybe it's because he is trying to ensure he will get re-elected and they have enough folks that will already vote against him. I dunno. Either way he seems like he is the only one with sense.
The political mob on here mock snd make fun of my posts and positions
If I were a crazy person then one would have to ask the question why does he like Fetterman
The answer is because I like making the world a better place for everyone
The message I teach or even preach gets under the ranting mobs skin
Just saw a post mocking me for grammatical style
The bus has really gone off the cliff when they mock the messenger, but fail totally in beating the value of the message
So to give the dogs some red meat to chew on
LOVE THE JOB TRUMP/MAGA/CHRISTIANS AND CONSERVATIVES ARE DOING
LONG LIVE THE LEGACY OF CHARLIE KIRK
MORE COWBELL AND MORE TRUMP
You like to pretend that your gobbled gibberish makes sense but it's just a convoluted ode to a hate-filled mafioso.
And LOL, that you like making the world a better place for everyone while you blindly support a monster who is actively trying to destroy half of the population.
Here's a hint - your undying loyalty to that creature proves you're not the good and godly man you pretend to be.
Some folks are beyond help. IT is one of them. You shouldn't waste your time or your words on IT. Just my humble opinion.
Just to be grammatically correct Please when referring to God as in the BIG GUY use the capital G in Godly Man.
The use of god is when we mortal beings are being referred to.
BTW Trump foes not need to destroy half the population which I am sure you include yourself in.
You are doing a far better job than God would do to you on self destruction.
Proud to be part of the resistance to the most divisive, disordered, vengeful POS that has ever held political office.
Hey why don't you tag me or address me directly if you want to talk ****? The only people that need help are the ones who fool themselves into believing they support a good and godly man while he dismantles everything that makes America a great country. His hardcore supporters who willingly overlook his treason, corruption and divisiveness are the ones who need to take inventory of their moral compass. I could never live with myself if I was like them.