Supposedly the guy who coaches defense. Is he gone yet? There were rumors he was stepping down.
Mark Fox
- Thread starter JPFisher
- Start date
There’s a movement to get rid of all the assistants to give an impression they’re the problem when reality it’s Pope.
I'm glad you have such conviction, but I'm not so sure it's that simple. Pope has a lot of issues, of course, but defense with a team this talented should've gotten shored up quickly. Fox was the defense guy, and none of us were impressed with his work as a head coach at UGA. Just putting 2 and 2 together.
Assistants matter.
The assistants aren’t going to do a whole lot with a HC that has a 63% winning record, most of those wins were over unranked and lower level teams.
Mark Fox is a career loser. It is unfortunate that he was ever associated with the Kentucky program. His hiring was the first sign than Pope didn't really "understand the assignment".
The sooner he is shown the door, the better.
The sooner he is shown the door, the better.
I'm not gonna convince you, I know. A lot of fans are hating to hate right now and I get it. I was calling for Pope's job this season too.
But, Gonzaga last year, Florida, Arkansas at Arkansas, Tennessee, St. Johns, and other big wins against ranked opponents. Pope is here for another year, so might as well watch and see what he can do to right the train, if anything. I think the first step is to switch out assistants that can't complement Pope's lack of recruiting ability or coach defense.
JMO.
Pope's problems were never the assistants. He had a grade A staff. I really think he has a problem delegating or allowing them to contribute.
Ab3 was right there in the conversation for best recruiter in college basketball. I don't recall ever seeing him in these recruiting photo ops. It was always Pope. Same thing with any discussion about recruits talking on the phone - always pope.
I suspect both he and Hart will both start reeling in guys now.
Fueger seems to be the only one he let have any room to operate at all and even that seemed to take a backseat this year.
Ab3 was right there in the conversation for best recruiter in college basketball. I don't recall ever seeing him in these recruiting photo ops. It was always Pope. Same thing with any discussion about recruits talking on the phone - always pope.
I suspect both he and Hart will both start reeling in guys now.
Fueger seems to be the only one he let have any room to operate at all and even that seemed to take a backseat this year.
I agree with you in theory. We need assistants who can hide Pope's weaknesses and complement his strengths. But I would ask: what are his strengths???
Defense? Obviously not.
Offense? I'd argue no. We had several 5-10 minute FG droughts in games this season. Not the mark of an elite offensive coach.
Player development? Nada
Game prep? No.
Dealing with the media/representing the program? Nope
Recruiting? LOL
The one thing I'll say he's been elite at is halftime adjustments. And even that, he got totally outcoached in that department by Otz in the elimination game.
The recruitment of Kerr Kriisa had me questioning some things. I really liked the other players in that first class though.
Some thoughts below. No smoke, just trying to be objective based on what I know about his BYU teams (not much) as well as his first two years.
Pope has never claimed to be a defensive mind, to my knowledge. He comes from the Pitino line, though, so we know he wants to be aggressive by trapping, stealing, and cutting into passing lanes. I feel like that's completely on his assistants and their expertise, or lack thereof. He definitely needs a new coach to get defense in shape.
I'm gonna default to last season (when healthy) to give us a realistic look at what he can do offensively. Against the best conference maybe in the history of college basketball, Williams, Brea, Butler, and Co. orchestrated amazing offensive performances all year long. Losing a PG is going to kneecap anyone's offense, so yeah, while it sucks that this year was a wash offensively, Pope and his guys were able to pull 23 wins out their asses. That's not great, and the roster issues need addressing in future season(s), but that first year was fun to watch.
Hard to tell with this one. Chandler has improved. Noah was never going to get major minutes until he was way into his career, of then. Garrison doesn't work hard in practice according to the guy I chat with at work, so that's not entirely on Pope. Oweh just kinda did his own thing.
MoD came along as the year progressed. Chandler's improvement needs to be mentioned. Aberdeen started coming into his own. Again, it's hard to pick out what went well and what went poorly since our PG went down and none of our CG backups really took that position by the reins.
Again, hard to tell.
Completely with you there.
Agree. Needs a media literacy coach to help him not throw gaffs out left and right and call out former coaches, which I don't think he does intentionally.
Agree, but Mo Williams and whomever else he brings in should be improvements there. Keegan Brown, from scuttlebutt I've heard, is already adjusting player valuations for guys on our roster and was critical in finding Amari Williams for Pope. Maybe we can right the ship with these guys. I dunno. Hope springs eternal.
I won't disagree there. To that point, his substitution patterns are just horrendous.
What Pope has going for him is that he's a younger coach who's willing to bust his *** for this program. He wants to run modern, high-powered offenses. He wants to use analytics (which can be too much of a good thing in high doses). He wants to have an aggressive defense.
The fact that there are shakeups, to me, tells me he is aware of these deficits and is doing everything he can to find assistants that jive with him and his style.
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Mark Fox is a veteran college basketball coach with an overall head coaching record of 324–263 (.552) over 18 seasons. Known for successful stints at Nevada and Georgia, as well as four years at California, Fox has five NCAA Tournament appearances and four regular-season conference titles to his credit.
Guy has won over 300 games. Probably 200 more than Pope will ever win.
Mark Fox is a veteran college basketball coach with an overall head coaching record of 324–263 (.552) over 18 seasons. Known for successful stints at Nevada and Georgia, as well as four years at California, Fox has five NCAA Tournament appearances and four regular-season conference titles to his credit.
Guy has won over 300 games. Probably 200 more than Pope will ever win.
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Mark, stop posting on Rafters and get back on the recruiting trail
This. I never understood that hire. I know he gave pope his first job, but that’s not why you hire a guy. He seems nice enough, but nice doesn’t coach defense.
I get it, honestly. It's a respect thing. I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same with a mentor of my own. That said, the niceties can be dispensed with. We need results if Pope's job is going to survive.
I think the two of them are closer than people think, and Pope really trusts Fox's judgment and leadership.
Everybody talks about all the greats Pope played for, like Rick, Larry Bird, George Karl. But they just coached him. I'm sure they influenced him in ways, but do Pope teams play hyper-aggressive D like Pitino teams? Do they constantly push the pace like Karl teams? Not really.
Mark Fox was Pope's mentor. He's more of a Mark Fox disciple than a Pitino disciple.
That's not only a cause for firing Pope but also a cause for putting Pope in Charter Ridge for an involuntary psychiatric hold.
A question I have had is that, if Mark Pope is not connected enough in the coaching community to attract excellent and recognizable assistant coaches, then what is it about him that will allow him to attract quality, high-level recruits ?? It seems to me that kinda goes hand-in-hand. ?????
I've been saying since year one I want Pope to hire a "defensive coordinator" and turn over 90% of the defensive game plan and coaching to them. Perhaps someone in the Chris Beard, TJ Otzelberger, or Rick Barnes trees. Or even someone Mark may know from the Pitino pipeline. I love to watch the teams that are clearly coached how to play physically without fouling/getting called for fouls. Beard in particular has adapted really well after they basically removed charges from the game, because his teams took charges maybe more than anyone. It seems like so often a team that isn't coached that way gets into those games and tries to match the physicality, and starts racking up fouls and getting frustrated.
When phil stat is on a thread you know he will say pope is awful. It's like the easiest prediction to make. Instead of saying like we need to work on getting one more assistant. Players didn't pan out last year and injuries, it could change maybe not. I can never be a doom and gloomer
I feel the exact same way brother, our defense only improved from year 1 to year 2 because of the players, if what Fox teaches on defense was worth a **** then they would've been better. His Georgia teams never were good on defense. Yes, assistant coaches do matter. Every time Kentucky is on defense you see Fox standing up shouting instructions.
I've said it over & over on this board, I just cannot understand a player that played for Rick Pitino doesn't preach hard defense. It's mind boggling to me.
If I was in charge of "post of the year" brother you'd win by a landslide. You're spot on with everything you said. The substitution thing..........his substitution players weren't good & he had to put someone in for breathers, maybe you mean the combination of certain players shouldn't be in with certain players or, he'd take players out when they were hot?
Taking players out when we were on a run and putting too many different lineups out in the early season for experimentation. Part of that is just how massive the roster was. If Pope can get us 8-9 deep, I think we can find success better than we were at 12 deep.
Pope gives plenty of people plenty of reasons to say he's awful. The reverse can't really be said. Which is unfortunate. Here's the issue, the "doom and gloom" crowd have plenty of evidence. What do the pumpers have? Hope? A S16 appearance that ended in a turbo clock? An 8-6 record vs T25 teams in 24-25? A 12-11 record vs Q1 teams in 24-25? Speaking for myself, I need something other than freaking hope. And he just doesn't provide it. Have a good year, don't sound like a mix between Mr. Rogers, a petulant child, and a dramatic MS girl in the media, and make an actual SECT and/or NCAAT run. If not, GTFO. Actually man up, say you understand the assignment, you failed, and walk away. But we all know he won't do that.
10 or 11 deep in case of injuries but only play 8-9 most of the time would be my idea.
The idea at each position is a starter & someone that's very close to the starter in talent at each position, if any of their defense sucks well, they better be able to at least score more than they give up lol.
That's a pretty dimwitted claim since he already has 233 wins.
Couldn't agree more. A coach should never hire someone that gave them their first job. It's simply a returned favor and typically doesn't end well.
Just consider the career trajectory of it. A mentor shouldn't be available for hire bc that means they either weren't successful or you didn't learn enough from them initially to succeed on your own.
Fox is trash đź—‘.
As I've said repeatedly, the best leaders delegate responsibility. You can't do it on your own.