The new contract would've made Harbaugh the highest paid B10 coach. With the allegations getting worse each day, my prediction is he knows he's on thin ice and he'll be a HC in the NFL next fall.
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Michigan rescinds Harbaugh's contract offer after sign stealing allegations
- Thread starter SoCal_Knight
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The new contract would've made Harbaugh the highest paid B10 coach. With the allegations getting worse each day, my prediction is he knows he's on thin ice and he'll be a HC in the NFL next fall.
Its all a nothingburger
I knew "something" would come up to get Harbaugh when he made political comments
"A coach with Big Ten and SEC experience asked what the big deal was in practical terms. Between the TV broadcast, coaches' tape and what fans film with their phones and post online, the coach said there's more than enough footage that's accessible without ever leaving the office. "Anything that happens in the public eye hasn't gone too far," the coach said. "To be honest, I can watch TV copy [of] two to three games and get everything I need."
Sign stealing, whether legal or illegal "is incredibly rampant in this business," a longtime Power 5 assistant said. Ohio State defensive coordinator Jim Knowles told ESPN in December that he estimates 75% of teams do it in some form."
www.espn.com
I knew "something" would come up to get Harbaugh when he made political comments
"A coach with Big Ten and SEC experience asked what the big deal was in practical terms. Between the TV broadcast, coaches' tape and what fans film with their phones and post online, the coach said there's more than enough footage that's accessible without ever leaving the office. "Anything that happens in the public eye hasn't gone too far," the coach said. "To be honest, I can watch TV copy [of] two to three games and get everything I need."
Sign stealing, whether legal or illegal "is incredibly rampant in this business," a longtime Power 5 assistant said. Ohio State defensive coordinator Jim Knowles told ESPN in December that he estimates 75% of teams do it in some form."
'There's honor amongst thieves': What college football coaches say about legal and illlegal sign stealing
With the NCAA investigating Michigan for sign stealing, we surveyed coaches from around the country to see what they thought.
www.espn.com
I have been reading in multiple places that big news could drop this week re: Michigan sign stealing scandal/Harbaugh.
Read somewhere that the Michigan ball boys were relaying information back to Michigan sideline from the opposing teams sideline.
Read somewhere that the Michigan ball boys were relaying information back to Michigan sideline from the opposing teams sideline.
I posted this in the other thread with regards to the ball boy thing.
The ball boy thing comes from a Forde article and its conflicting info. One coach from one B10 school warned another B10 school about ball boys listening on the sidelines and signaling pass or run. The school that was warned said they didn't see anything unusual the ball boys did.
From the article:
Multiple sources from one Big Ten school told SI that a coach at a different school called them before playing Michigan to warn them about Wolverines ball boys on their sideline listening to play calls and communicating information to the Michigan sideline—holding the football up in one hand to indicate an expected pass, and in the other hand to indicate a run, for instance. (Sources at the school that was warned said they experienced nothing in the game to implicate the Michigan ball boys.)
Thanks for the clarification. I knew I read it somewhere but it sounded so hokey that I didn’t save the article but thought I would just casually mention it.
As usual, poor reasoning in one of your posts.Its all a nothingburger
I knew "something" would come up to get Harbaugh when he made political comments
"A coach with Big Ten and SEC experience asked what the big deal was in practical terms. Between the TV broadcast, coaches' tape and what fans film with their phones and post online, the coach said there's more than enough footage that's accessible without ever leaving the office. "Anything that happens in the public eye hasn't gone too far," the coach said. "To be honest, I can watch TV copy [of] two to three games and get everything I need."
Sign stealing, whether legal or illegal "is incredibly rampant in this business," a longtime Power 5 assistant said. Ohio State defensive coordinator Jim Knowles told ESPN in December that he estimates 75% of teams do it in some form."
'There's honor amongst thieves': What college football coaches say about legal and illlegal sign stealing
With the NCAA investigating Michigan for sign stealing, we surveyed coaches from around the country to see what they thought.
The scale of offense is what is relevant here, not that “everybody does it”.
Cops don’t give someone driving 85 in a 55 a pass because everyone is driving 65 with impunity.
What were the political comments? Did not hear about that.Its all a nothingburger
I knew "something" would come up to get Harbaugh when he made political comments
"A coach with Big Ten and SEC experience asked what the big deal was in practical terms. Between the TV broadcast, coaches' tape and what fans film with their phones and post online, the coach said there's more than enough footage that's accessible without ever leaving the office. "Anything that happens in the public eye hasn't gone too far," the coach said. "To be honest, I can watch TV copy [of] two to three games and get everything I need."
Sign stealing, whether legal or illegal "is incredibly rampant in this business," a longtime Power 5 assistant said. Ohio State defensive coordinator Jim Knowles told ESPN in December that he estimates 75% of teams do it in some form."
'There's honor amongst thieves': What college football coaches say about legal and illlegal sign stealing
With the NCAA investigating Michigan for sign stealing, we surveyed coaches from around the country to see what they thought.
I don’t know about that. It’s difficult to parse this kind of thing by degree of cheating.
I’ve said most coaches have downplayed this because they’re no saints either. I think the NCAA and also even the Big10 will be soft on this fearing Michigan is only the tip of the iceberg.
Imagine if you hit Michigan hard and then it comes out it’s pervasive. Then what ?
It isn’t difficult at all to judge this by degree.
We have a lot of people saying “it” happens at a lot of schools. We don’t have any of those people coming up with evidence that shows any of those other schools having paid staff attending games to advance scout, providing tickets to people to sit in the visitor’s section and tape the visiting team sideline, etc.
The only evidence I have seen refutes the idea that everybody is doing what Michigan is doing. The story came out that Ohio State asked for a ruling from the NCAA on whether they, as a CFP playoff semi finalist, were allowed to advance scout the other semifinal game. That hardly sounds like a school acting just like Michigan.
Good analogy. And taking it one step further, just because everyone does it, doesn't mean that once you caught you will get off, even if you were only going 65 like everyone else. Once a cop sets up his gun and starts "enforcing" you might get caught even if you were going the same speed as everyone else. Once the relevant decision maker has concrete evidence in front of them (whether NCAA or a judge), they are generally going to act on it as if you were the only person to ever do it.
I heard a couple of people mention how the NFL will at times honor a suspension put forth by the NCAA- both times, happened to be OSU people- so there is that
Most football players/coaches share my view
The baseball dweebs think something big went down when it didn't
What I’m saying is, MPH variance is precisely measurable but this is not either in degree of cheating or degree of benefit.
Cheating is cheating. Say you take away 5 scholarships and fine them $500k. Then it comes out 75 other schools also cheat, but not as much. You can’t let them slide. Then you created your own mess.
Here’s a better analogy. Most of MLB used steroids (cheating) but only a few got caught. Some used more some used less. Where do you draw the line ? You can’t.
The whole damn thing is spoiled.
Now with better testing compliance is a lot better. But back then….
Even if I blindly took the idea at face value that you have the extensive contacts to be able to know what “most” players/coaches think, who cares? Football players/coaches are the ones subject to the rules, they aren’t enforcing them.
Your thought process only makes sense if the cheating was the same and only difference was in the numbers, which is not what we have here.
If one school paid 20 players under the table and afterwards another only 2, then you have your punishment conundrum.
If all of the other schools are paying players under the table, but only one is paying players but also fixing their grades and giving their parents no show jobs and a house, there is no conundrum that school is at a whole different level..
If they don't renew Harbaugh's contract I don't believe it will be because of the sign stealing (in stadium scouting). The FBI is not in their football facility investigating sign stealing. They are there for things that are much larger. Some allege hacking allegations inside UMich and other "Universities." (possible link to football and nonfootball computer fraud). Other rumors are CSAM on certain coaches shared dropbox folders.
That story is even weirder. They supposedly have been all over the computers of some Michigan staff but we have no idea of what supposedly was going on except for some sources to come out and say it doesn’t involve that horrible thing some people might jump to when they hear about men sharing files using computers.
Aaron Rodgers said if he is "able to decipher a defensive signal that calls for a certain coverage, his offensive line still has to keep him upright, he still has to look a safety away from where he wants to throw it, the receiver has to shake the coverage and get to the spot where the ball is supposed to be thrown, Rodgers has to put it there and the receiver has to make the catch.
“If anybody does anything different — I get sacked, pressured, safety doesn’t jump 'em — who gives a sh** if you know what the signal is?” Rodgers explained on “The Pat McAfee Show.” “… You still gotta execute.”
Overwhelmingly I'm seeing the better coaches and players downplaying this nonsense.
One reason is because they all try to steal signs.
Its places like Yahoo News and Mediaite trying to make this all sound like Watergate involving "extensive networks." Come on man lol
"University of Nebraska head coach Matt Rhule also commented on sign stealing in college football. “Yeah, sign stealing happens every game. There’s nothing wrong with teams looking over trying to steal our signs,” said Rhule."
All teams exchange films and have acces to game recordings.
Most top teams know what top players can and cant do because they all recuited same players.
Teams spend a week watching film and planning for what teams do.
Some teams rarely allow sacks and some allow dozens - the difference is good blockers vs bad and not "signals"
I see LB's give away that they are blitzing and they bull right over OL anyway
I said it before that in baseball stealing signals is key in football its just not that big an advanatge
"Sanders, who knows a bit about both football and baseball, said sign stealing does give a distinct advantage to the latter, not so much to the former. “If I know a curveball is coming, I got you. In football, I don’t give a darn if you know a sweep is coming, you still gotta stop it.”
Yes conundrum is the right word. I think your two groupings are too different. Try that with 100 schools and a wide range of cheating activities. It’s a land mine best avoided. Which teams cheated and when ? Who vacates wins and who doesn’t ?
I’d agree with you if the chasm between UM and everyone else was very wide. I bet it isn’t as wide as you think. And besides, the benefit was minimal at most.
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Very simple- you do what you have to do to Michigan and make the announcement that if any other team is found that they have previously or currently use electronic devices at another team's game and those recordings are used by anyone associated to your staff, you will get the same penalty.
Of course- the recordings used would fall outside of the defined approved methods...
this is getting tiring- yes, AR would still have to make the play. And like Deion said- still have to make the play.
No F-ing Kidding! But isn't it just a tad easier looking off the guy that you know you have to look the F off!
You are still trying to equate something that is legal (sign stealing) with the things Michigan has alleged to do with aren’t.
Also, the film and game recordings you mention are not equal to what Michigan is going, because those films capture little to none of the signaling done on the sideline, while Michigan is specifically capturing all of it.
Exactly- I think I see maybe 3 shots of sideline play call cards in an entire game when on TV- if even that. And you may not even get the shot of the player outside of that shot who is really giving the signal of which card is the one to use. What they are (allegedly)doing in the Michigan case is- having a camera specifically on the sideline play callers and then making detailed notes about the play that was called. You can't get that without cheating.
And if more teams also do this- then they get the same penalty. If everyone is doing it- I bet it shuts down pretty quickly. And then what- you get a bunch of these DIII that were lining their pockets all ready to spill the beans.
The sign stealing in isolation may not be big thing BUT
combined with other investigations, and Harbaugh's general weirdeness, the cumulative effect may be in play. He has certainly worn out his welcome at near every stop and this may show some fatigue with him and the slick ethical compliance.
combined with other investigations, and Harbaugh's general weirdeness, the cumulative effect may be in play. He has certainly worn out his welcome at near every stop and this may show some fatigue with him and the slick ethical compliance.
You're missing the same point as Krup. The last thing anyone wants is to open up this can of worms. They're all cheating. You can't just draw the line at Michigan.
What if 20 other schools do something just as shady. Imagine the stink it would cause.
Everyone in the know, other than this self described expert on UM football, says that this is not true.
The real news will be the identity of the private firm who did the investigation and, even more interesting, who hired them. I sincerely hope the firm is the 4th and 1 Investigations and Protective Agency, LLC.
Heard on a podcast that the firm was hired by UofM because they don’t have a true detective bureau within the campus police. Also the university when hiring the agency wasn’t looking at possible criminal activity more of a fire for cause Human Resources type of investigation. This is all because the athletic department more specifically the football operation wouldn’t grant access to computers and comply with campus police. They brought it upon themselves.
Hearing all these people say this is interesting...because there is no effing way that knowing a sweep was coming wouldn't be a massive advantage to the D. Massive. I don't care if Touchdown Jesus told me knowing a sweep was coming wasn't an advantage, I know it is. Let me know the play called and I'll be the best defensive coordinator ever!
Correction, after reading the article: It's not "all these people" it's Aaron Rogers and Deon Sanders quoted.
The only thing that can screw-up a game plan aside from weather is a new QB
Teams scout QBs and other skill players for strengths/weaknesses/tendencies etc.
When a back-up comes in that can really screw things up - which is why back-ups often do well the first weeks.
If a play calls for man blocking in a specified area the OL know what he's doing no matter what. If a play is running zone blocking then the OL has to focus on an area and the movement of the group. Knowing a play ahead of time changes nothing for the OL. If defense lines-up a certain way the QB makes a change and the good ones know what to look for because QB is very much a football IQ position that calls for instant recognition all over the field. Rogers knows that and he knows having some tidbit might help but its just a little piece of nut in the batter of a play. Certainly nothing to fire coaches over and act like the coaches had players put shivs under their pads
SABAN "stolen signs just mess me up so stay quiet" :
"...way back when, 88, 89, early nineties. You were allowed to send pro personnel guys to scout a game ahead of when you played it. I think that it got to the point where sign stealing was unbelievable in the NFL. I mean you had somebody that you hired to put in the box to watch signals of the other team. And by the first quarter, we got the runs, we got the passes. When I was a coordinator, I told the guy don’t tell me what you think they’re gonna do. We prepared. We know what we’re gonna play in these situations. We’re gonna play it. I don’t want to hear it, it’s just messing me up. But that became and if you look historically, you’ll know that there were reasons that they changed the rules. So you couldn’t do that. Then they come with the microphone, helmet, whatever they call it and there was no sign stealing. There was no signs because there was just communication, which I think we would solve a lot of those problems if we would do the same thing in college football. There’s no reason not to do that.”
And you would be the first one to open up the can of worms if this was Rutgers and your boy Schiano. Could only imagine how different your posts would be on this if that was the case.