Next Year’s Lineup

[MSU158]

I think you take the development thing all wrong. That and recruiting go hand in hand. Sure, they develop faster in the youth stage, but its not just about technique. He is big on alot of sports psychologist thoughts, and thats a big part of development at the higher level. Penn State tends to overperform when the lights are on. Unfortunately, Iowa doesnt. Its not just about about wrestling technique. I would argue that at the D1 level, the development between the ears is more important. He mentioned guys leaving both programs with different thoughts about their experience. PSU guys speak highly of the program, even after they move on. They talk about stepping on campus and going weeks without getting a takedown. Or getting ridden out an entire practice. Those are some wrestlers that probably spent the last few years dominating everyone. Thats part of development as well, and they themselves say that. Those kinds of stories help recruiting way more than shoveling sidewalks.

To be fair, this isn't something new or specific to PSU. I witnessed it first hand several times 30+ years ago. I am talking about guys coming into the room riding 100+ win steaks, including Fargo, and getting rolled by non-starters....

Fast forward to today and that is still common for most, however, the elite of the elite(guys like Blaze and Forrest) have ALREADY had access to this level of training partner, so they have ALREADY adapted. PSU has also done a great job of "grey" shirting some of their recruits early enough to give them that opportunity to roll with these guys and adapt.

Look, its truly really simple. PSU is so much better at recruiting than ANY other program has EVER been. It isn't even remotely close. It truly isn't that Iowa is remotely bad at recruiting. PSU has been so good at it for so long, they grew and developed an RTC to match. Now, they are essentially too big to fail.

Prior to Sanderson's run at PSU, many of Iowa's lineups would have been true contenders year in and year out. PSU has simply become so damn good that EVERYONE looks bad in comparison. Take tOSU. They truly have a DAMN GOOD team this year. They didn't wrestled PSU any better than Iowa did.

Couple DT with a billionaire willing to spend and an athletic department willing to help however possible and you will get a poor man's version of PSU, which should still get decently ahead of everyone else, but they aren't SNIFFING what PSU is right now and I wouldn't expect that to change until Sanderson gets bored, Cunningham leaves or some type of major scandal or rule change occurs. PSU has put so much talent in that room for so long and has dominated that long as a result. I don't care how hard DT tries, short of making monetary offers PSU won't match, they aren't going to win enough recruiting wars with PSU to ever truly get to their level...

Edited to add: Here is how SIMPLE it truly is-(Haines is the only guy they lose after this season)

125: Lilledahl #1 lb4lb recruit in '24
133: Blaze #1 lb4lb recruit in '25, Ono-World Champ from Japan
141: Davis #42 lb4lb recruit in '23, Desmond #31 lb4lb recruit in '25, Nagao(AA transfer from Minnesota class of '21)
149: Van Ness #4 lb4lb recruit in '21. Perry #46 lb4lb recruit in '25
157: Duke #2 lb4lb recruit in'25, Kasak #10 lb4lb recruit in '23, Sealey #6 lb4lb recruit in '24
165: Mesenbrink(transfer from Cal Baptist) #18 lb4lb recruit in '22
174: Haines #9 lb4lb recruit in '22, Henckel #13 lb4lb recruit in '25, Facundo(transferred to OkState) #2 lb4lb recruit in '21
184: Welsh(transfer from tOSU) #6 lb4lb recruit in '23, Ryder(transferred to OkState) #5 lb4lb recruit in '24, Cunningham #18 recruit in '25
197: Barr #7 lb4lb recruit in '23, Mirasola #7 lb4lb recruit in '24
285: Mirasola #15 lb4lb recruit in '24

Class of '26-James #3 lb4lb, Herring #21 lb4lb, Class of '27-Sidun #2 lb4lb, Burnett #6lb4lb, Mangano #10 lb4lb

 

[Random4598375]

To be fair, this isn't something new or specific to PSU. I witnessed it first hand several times 30+ years ago. I am talking about guys coming into the room riding 100+ win steaks, including Fargo, and getting rolled by non-starters....

Fast forward to today and that is still common for most, however, the elite of the elite(guys like Blaze and Forrest) have ALREADY had access to this level of training partner, so they have ALREADY adapted. PSU has also done a great job of "grey" shirting some of their recruits early enough to give them that opportunity to roll with these guys and adapt.

Look, its truly really simple. PSU is so much better at recruiting than ANY other program has EVER been. It isn't even remotely close. It truly isn't that Iowa is remotely bad at recruiting. PSU has been so good at it for so long, they grew and developed an RTC to match. Now, they are essentially too big to fail.

Prior to Sanderson's run at PSU, many of Iowa's lineups would have been true contenders year in and year out. PSU has simply become so damn good that EVERYONE looks bad in comparison. Take tOSU. They truly have a DAMN GOOD team this year. They didn't wrestled PSU any better than Iowa did.

Couple DT with a billionaire willing to spend and an athletic department willing to help however possible and you will get a poor man's version of PSU, which should still get decently ahead of everyone else, but they aren't SNIFFING what PSU is right now and I wouldn't expect that to change until Sanderson gets bored, Cunningham leaves or some type of major scandal or rule change occurs. PSU has put so much talent in that room for so long and has dominated that long as a result. I don't care how hard DT tries, short of making monetary offers PSU won't match, they aren't going to win enough recruiting wars with PSU to ever truly get to their level...

It didn't start with recruiting, it started with overachieving at nationals year in, year out. Penn State's recruiting classes back in the 2009-2015 era weren't head and shoulders above everyone else, and even as late as 2022, they had holes in their lineup every year (Creighton Edsell was a non-qualifying starter at 174 and they needed to plug in semester 2 portal mercenary Drew Hildebrandt at 125 and coax a broken down Brady Berge out of coaching to come back and cover 165, both of whom did nothing at nationals). In recent years, yes, the elite recruits have seen what the Penn State guys have achieved and are knocking down their door recruiting themselves into the room, but that recruiting domination is built on a foundation of wrestling domination in the early years, not the other way around.

 

[Trapper85]

Delete

 

[Trapper85]

I think you take the development thing all wrong. That and recruiting go hand in hand. Sure, they develop faster in the youth stage, but its not just about technique. He is big on alot of sports psychologist thoughts, and thats a big part of development at the higher level. Penn State tends to overperform when the lights are on. Unfortunately, Iowa doesnt. Its not just about about wrestling technique. I would argue that at the D1 level, the development between the ears is more important. He mentioned guys leaving both programs with different thoughts about their experience. PSU guys speak highly of the program, even after they move on. They talk about stepping on campus and going weeks without getting a takedown. Or getting ridden out an entire practice. Those are some wrestlers that probably spent the last few years dominating everyone. Thats part of development as well, and they themselves say that. Those kinds of stories help recruiting way more than shoveling sidewalks.

Well, since I agree with much of what you (and Askren) said on "development", I guess that means that your take is wrong too?? Of course development (technique and psych) is important, even more so if recruiting is subpar....so arguably true for Iowa. And they indeed feed off each other - if you can take average guys and consistently make them very high podium guys in 4 years (which I still argue is rare and difficult), more higher level recruits take notice and recruiting gets easier/better. And that, of course along with recruiting location and Ira, may explain a part of Karl's rise. All I'm saying, in response to Askren's 1 comment, is don't suggest Iowa's recent recruiting is anywhere close to PSU over the last 10 years, no matter what some average recruiting class metric might say (the metric is useless if it says that.

 

[MSU158]

It didn't start with recruiting, it started with overachieving at nationals year in, year out. Penn State's recruiting classes back in the 2009-2015 era weren't head and shoulders above everyone else, and even as late as 2022, they had holes in their lineup every year (Creighton Edsell was a non-qualifying starter at 174 and they needed to plug in semester 2 portal mercenary Drew Hildebrandt at 125 and coax a broken down Brady Berge out of coaching to come back and cover 165, both of whom did nothing at nationals). In recent years, yes, the elite recruits have seen what the Penn State guys have achieved and are knocking down their door recruiting themselves into the room, but that recruiting domination is built on a foundation of wrestling domination in the early years, not the other way around.

I am sorry, but you are flat out wrong. Sanderson was the best recruiter I have ever seen and that started at ISU. Once he got to PSU, that took off like no tomorrow. I have been doing these lists since then, but, with the loss of the D1wrestling website, I can't access the recruiting classes that far back and thematforums is no longer there for me to find those lists. But, I am telling you for ABSOLUTE CERTAIN, Sanderson's recruiting has been incredible since he started coaching.

Now, I am not saying that his recruiting didn't get easier with the amount of success, culminating with unbelievable depth now. Of course it did. However, he was BY FAR the best recruiter, even at the beginning of his career. It hasn't even been close. There may not have been the volume every single year, but he damn near always landed a top guy to fill a need weight right away with guys like Joseph or Hall.

 

[Random4598375]

I am sorry, but you are flat out wrong. Sanderson was the best recruiter I have ever seen and that started at ISU. Once he got to PSU, that took off like no tomorrow. I have been doing these lists since then, but, with the loss of the D1wrestling website, I can't access the recruiting classes that far back and thematforums is no longer there for me to find those lists. But, I am telling you for ABSOLUTE CERTAIN, Sanderson's recruiting has been incredible since he started coaching.

Now, I am not saying that his recruiting didn't get easier with the amount of success, culminating with unbelievable depth now. Of course it did. However, he was BY FAR the best recruiter, even at the beginning of his career. It hasn't even been close. There may not have been the volume every single year, but he damn near always landed a top guy to fill a need weight right away with guys like Joseph or Hall.

Shockingly (not really), you're just talking out of your *** again. Yes, PSU got top guys like Hall and Joseph and Nolf and whoever, but not in greater quantity than other schools, including Iowa. What separates PSU is what those guys achieved once they got there. This is a great example. PSU was ranked 7th in the 2014 recruiting class:

Northwestern tops WIN's 2013-14 Early Recruiting Rankings - WIN Magazine

By Rob Sherrill, WIN High School Editor The “Bedlam Series” encapsulates the rivalry between Oklahoma and Oklahoma State in a variety of sports. Over the years, wrestling has been at or near the top of that list. Under the leadership of coach John Smith, the Cowboys have ruled the wrestling...

www.win-magazine.com

1. Northwestern: Micic, Brill, Sebastian, Sammy Gross
2. Nebraska: Tuma, Adams, Berger
3. Cornell: Artigliere, Garcia, Sweaney, Womack, Galasso, Macri
4. Oklahoma St: Harding, Marstellar, Dale, Blees, Rogers, Magaldo, Jacobe Smith
5. Ohio St: Snyder, Haines, M. Jordan, Harris, Burcher, Newton, Williams
6. Oklahoma: Andrew, Joel, and Lance Dixon, Milhof, Rubio, Hamilton, Marek
7. Penn St: Nickal, Nolf, N. Nevills

Penn State was 7th in the ranking based on just recruiting, but turned that into 2 3-time champions. That's the difference they make, and because they've had that sort of impact for 15+ years now, the top recruits want to come there.

 

[MSU158]

Shockingly (not really), you're just talking out of your *** again. Yes, PSU got top guys like Hall and Joseph and Nolf and whoever, but not in greater quantity than other schools, including Iowa. What separates PSU is what those guys achieved once they got there. This is a great example. PSU was ranked 7th in the 2014 recruiting class:

Northwestern tops WIN's 2013-14 Early Recruiting Rankings - WIN Magazine

By Rob Sherrill, WIN High School Editor The “Bedlam Series” encapsulates the rivalry between Oklahoma and Oklahoma State in a variety of sports. Over the years, wrestling has been at or near the top of that list. Under the leadership of coach John Smith, the Cowboys have ruled the wrestling...

www.win-magazine.com

1. Northwestern: Micic, Brill, Sebastian, Sammy Gross
2. Nebraska: Tuma, Adams, Berger
3. Cornell: Artigliere, Garcia, Sweaney, Womack, Galasso, Macri
4. Oklahoma St: Harding, Marstellar, Dale, Blees, Rogers, Magaldo, Jacobe Smith
5. Ohio St: Snyder, Haines, M. Jordan, Harris, Burcher, Newton, Williams
6. Oklahoma: Andrew, Joel, and Lance Dixon, Milhof, Rubio, Hamilton, Marek
7. Penn St: Nickal, Nolf, N. Nevills

Penn State was 7th in the ranking based on just recruiting, but turned that into 2 3-time champions. That's the difference they make, and because they've had that sort of impact for 15+ years now, the top recruits want to come there.

Again, it isn't by VOLUME. It is by NEED.

Back then, yearly recruiting ranking went by volume. Iowa was really good at landing guys in the 20-50 range in volume. Meanwhile, Sanderson has CONSISTENTLY grabbed the best guys he NEEDED. Hell, look at the teams ahead of them in those rankings and tell me how that happened? The ONLY one comparable is tOSU and they have them 5th. Even then, Haines was a guy PSU passed on and had EASILY if they wanted...

Are you really saying that ANY of those ranked above them grabbed guys more valuable that year than Nolf, Nickal and Nevills. If you believe that, there is literally NO POINT in us talking about this any further...

 

[Random4598375]

Here's some more:

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles.html/college/full-class-of-2022-recruiting-rankings-1-25-r90181/

2022 was Ohio State's "all time greatest recruiting class ever" with the top three recruits in the country. Penn State's recruiting class consisted of Levi Haines and Connor Pierce and wasn't even ranked in the top 25, but in retrospect basically just Levi is better than everyone else's entire class except for Jesse Mendez.

 

[Random4598375]

Again, it isn't by VOLUME. It is by NEED.

Back then, yearly recruiting ranking went by volume. Iowa was really good at landing guys in the 20-50 range in volume. Meanwhile, Sanderson has CONSISTENTLY grabbed the best guys he NEEDED. Hell, look at the teams ahead of them in those rankings and tell me how that happened? The ONLY one comparable is tOSU and they have them 5th. Even then, Haines was a guy PSU passed on and had EASILY if they wanted...

Are you really saying that ANY of those ranked above them grabbed guys more valuable that year than Nolf, Nickal and Nevills. If you believe that, there is literally NO POINT in us talking about this any further...

Those other teams' classes were ranked higher as recruits based on volume, need, quality, and everything else. No team can bring in 19 nobodies and get a high recruiting ranking. The other teams had better recruiting classes, period. Nolf, Nickal, and Nevills weren't the top 3 recruits in the country. They were certainly good, but there were better. Nolf and Nickal turned out to be the best two in the class, but you're basing your whole ridiculous argument on retrospective results, which is a by-product of being at PSU, not recruiting rank.

I'd hate to be as dumb as you are and still think I'm smarter than everyone else. LOL.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Shockingly (not really), you're just talking out of your *** again. Yes, PSU got top guys like Hall and Joseph and Nolf and whoever, but not in greater quantity than other schools, including Iowa. What separates PSU is what those guys achieved once they got there. This is a great example. PSU was ranked 7th in the 2014 recruiting class:

Northwestern tops WIN's 2013-14 Early Recruiting Rankings - WIN Magazine

By Rob Sherrill, WIN High School Editor The “Bedlam Series” encapsulates the rivalry between Oklahoma and Oklahoma State in a variety of sports. Over the years, wrestling has been at or near the top of that list. Under the leadership of coach John Smith, the Cowboys have ruled the wrestling...

www.win-magazine.com

1. Northwestern: Micic, Brill, Sebastian, Sammy Gross
2. Nebraska: Tuma, Adams, Berger
3. Cornell: Artigliere, Garcia, Sweaney, Womack, Galasso, Macri
4. Oklahoma St: Harding, Marstellar, Dale, Blees, Rogers, Magaldo, Jacobe Smith
5. Ohio St: Snyder, Haines, M. Jordan, Harris, Burcher, Newton, Williams
6. Oklahoma: Andrew, Joel, and Lance Dixon, Milhof, Rubio, Hamilton, Marek
7. Penn St: Nickal, Nolf, N. Nevills

Penn State was 7th in the ranking based on just recruiting, but turned that into 2 3-time champions. That's the difference they make, and because they've had that sort of impact for 15+ years now, the top recruits want to come there.

Again, it isn't by VOLUME...
...
Are you really saying that ANY of those ranked above them grabbed guys more valuable that year than Nolf, Nickal and Nevills?

As much as it pains me, I have to agree 100% with MSU158. That old (now defunct) recruiting ranking heavily favored quantity over quality.

When I saw the 3-N recruiting class, I also saw another 4-peat following their joint RS year.

 

[Random4598375]

As much as it pains me, I have to agree with 100% with MSU158. That old (now defunct) recruiting ranking heavily favored quantity over quality.

When I saw the 3-N recruiting class, I also saw another 4-peat following their joint RS year.

After their redshirt season where Nolf almost won the Scuffle (when the Scuffle was still a big deal)? Nolf wasn't a top 3 recruit or anything, but just one year of data in redshirt made it clear he was going to be a champion in the Penn State room.

 

[MSU158]

Here's some more:

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles.html/college/full-class-of-2022-recruiting-rankings-1-25-r90181/

2022 was Ohio State's "all time greatest recruiting class ever" with the top three recruits in the country. Penn State's recruiting class consisted of Levi Haines and Connor Pierce and wasn't even ranked in the top 25, but in retrospect basically just Levi is better than everyone else's entire class except for Jesse Mendez.

I am sorry, but do you mean to be this obtuse? Depending on the roster, needs change by year. You aren't going to recruit 3-5 top 10 recruits year in and year out. You wouldn't have anywhere to put them. When they added Haines, they already had RBY, Bartlett, Van Ness, Facundo, Starocci, Brooks, Dean and Kerkvliet. How many top guys did he need? Mind you Haines wrestled in 2023, making 125 the only "weak" weight and that is only because Iowa outrecruited them for Lee, in one of only a handful of times in Sanderson's entire career where he went after someone hard and they went somewhere else...

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

After their redshirt season where Nolf almost won the Scuffle (when the Scuffle was still a big deal)? Nolf wasn't a top 3 recruit or anything, but just one year of data in redshirt made it clear he was going to be a champion in the Penn State room.

People in the know knew Cael thought Nolf could be his first 4-timer. He came very close. The rankers and raters aren't all knowing.

Jason Nolf finished his senior year at Kittanning High School (2014) ranked as the No. 1 wrestler in the nation at 145 pounds.

Like Seidel, a 3-time Pennsylvania state champion (2012, 2013, 2014) and a 4-time finalist.

 

[MSU158]

After their redshirt season where Nolf almost won the Scuffle (when the Scuffle was still a big deal)? Nolf wasn't a top 3 recruit or anything, but just one year of data in redshirt made it clear he was going to be a champion in the Penn State room.

I am telling you, I am not speaking out of my rear on this. I have paid attention to this since Sanderson took over at ISU and have posted about it damn near yearly since then. Like I said, D1wrestling was the absolute best site to get recruiting data and made it so easy to go back through.

Simply put, NO ONE has EVER been on Sanderson's level at nabbing top 10 lb4lb recruits. On top of that, he is amazing at finding the RIGHT top 10 lb4lb recruits. Look, I know many of you fans want to take highly valuing recruiting as some sort of an insult, and I love playing into that with you guys.

Look, it really isn't an insult. Sanderson used his best asset to springboard others. Once they got around the 9.9 limitations, growing the RTC and using it to supplement scholarships, they took off. By the time NIL came around they had already had so much success and funding, they damn near can handpick who they want each year...

 

[MSU158]

Those other teams' classes were ranked higher as recruits based on volume, need, quality, and everything else. No team can bring in 19 nobodies and get a high recruiting ranking. The other teams had better recruiting classes, period. Nolf, Nickal, and Nevills weren't the top 3 recruits in the country. They were certainly good, but there were better. Nolf and Nickal turned out to be the best two in the class, but you're basing your whole ridiculous argument on retrospective results, which is a by-product of being at PSU, not recruiting rank.

I'd hate to be as dumb as you are and still think I'm smarter than everyone else. LOL.

It is funny how you can be this obtuse and call me dumb. First off, did you actually look at the top teams ahead of them? They absolutely were put ahead based on volume, with tOSU being the exception. Mind you, tOSU was put ahead of them because of Haines. Do you remember that Haines wanted to go to PSU, committed to PSU and PSU essentially told him they didn't have room for him?

Look, at one time Nolf, Nickal and Nevills were ALL ranked top 10 lb4lb. IN NO WORLD are ANY of the other teams listed better than that type of recruiting class. WIN has NEVER been a good source for that kind of stuff and, no offense to Mike Finn, he had no business doing the rankings...

 

[BrianLafevre]

I’m not exactly sure what is precisely being argued here. Can it really be argued that Cael has been the best recruiter in the history of the sport?

I do believe he is better at developing his athletes as well. His first year at PSU with Sunderland’s wrestlers and had those guys in first place after the first session or day due to the bonus points they were putting up. It was easy to read the tea leaves then.

Very few of his recruits don’t live up to expectations relative to their rankings coming out of HS.

 

[MSU158]

I’m not exactly sure what is precisely being argued here. Can it really be argued that Cael has been the best recruiter in the history of the sport?

I do believe he is better at developing his athletes as well. His first year at PSU with Sunderland’s wrestlers and had those guys in first place after the first session or day due to the bonus points they were putting up. It was easy to read the tea leaves then.

Very few of his recruits don’t live up to expectations relative to their rankings coming out of HS.

Make no mistake, I am not saying he doesn't develop guys. He absolutely does. I am just saying it is infinitely easier to develop someone like David Taylor or Marcus Blaze than say, Max Murin. To me, Max was one of the best achievements under Brands. By the end, I firmly believe they got the absolute best version of him possible and he was actually at his best in his 6th season, when 6th season guys has been one of the biggest knocks against Brands by his detractors.

Part of recruiting is also finding the right top 10 recruit to fit your team and philosophy and I absolutely believe Carl is as good as anyone at that aspect as well...

 

[HugoHugo]

How Penn State wrestling remains dominant in the NIL era

 

[Old_wrestling_fan2]

...

Very few of his recruits don’t live up to expectations relative to their rankings coming out of HS.

Ehhh...I think one could put together a pretty good list of PSU guys that didn't "hit" after being a much heralded HS grappler. Yes, there are clearly plenty that do excel and are in the mix for national titles...but no one bats 1.000 on recruits. It's just that at PSU there is often a backup plan that is pretty darn good, either yet that year, or coming in the next year. So, you kind of forget about the guys that are not really tip-top...but they exist.

 

[IRON HAWK]

WELP, might as well give it ONE MORE SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!

MSU158 broke it down pretty clearly, he does keep saying, "best recruiter ever!?!?!"

RanDUMB guy keeps trying to say, NO that aint it!?!??!

YET SIR IRON HAWK has given it to you REAL clearly Over and OVER again!!!! RanDUMB guy will like to talk about "how some guys, ""over achieve"" as the reason?????

He fails however to talk about it in VERY clear terms!!!!

IF I, or Krailure, or anyone else, was able to SKATE the RULES using Fat$$$$Mans dough and bring in 5X more TOP tier talent. That person, regardless of who it is, would win TWOOOOOO!!!!

Whenever people are allowed to CHEAT, the outcome becomes predictable!!! We saw it clearly in POS nfl with that Pedophile sheethead up in NE!!! Just listen to the A-holes up there tell you how great he is!?!?!?!?

Now AGAIN using the game of cards. You get 1 hand, I get FIVE!!! I like my odds and I can really be aggressive in my betting. I showed this VERY clearly with just the 125 weight class. It was UNREAL the talent brought in, and TRASHED OUT!!!! OVER and OVER again!!!!!

But you can look at other weights also. They had a TOP recruit at heavy, but had the luxury to recruit over him with Kergen, they did it with ButterDean, and again with WelchersJuiceHead!!!!!

ADD to this the Athletic Depts willingness to let "stuff" slide and you get what we now have!!!!!

MSU158 brought up OakTree st. Can they catch them???? I tell you what, I could take over say LIU and IF I have a BILLIONAIR and can use the money as I wish???? I could beat that POS in about a year because I would buy 1/2 his lineup, as well as every other TOP kid in the Country!!!!

OH, my heavy weight???? Would be none other then The RUSSIAN TANK!!!!

SOOOOO PLEASE STOP being STUPID!!!! LAST WARNING!!!!

 

[WillieTheBrain]

 

[IRON HAWK]

How Penn State wrestling remains dominant in the NIL era

Wanna read some GOOD Horse Sheet^^^^^ there it is!!!!

BUT between the lines,,, LOOK at the $$$$$$$$$!!!!

Can't wait to once AGIN be right as ALL their U champions do SHEET when it really matters!!!!

Ehhh...I think one could put together a pretty good list of PSU guys that didn't "hit" after being a much heralded HS grappler. Yes, there are clearly plenty that do excel and are in the mix for national titles...but no one bats 1.000 on recruits. It's just that at PSU there is often a backup plan that is pretty darn good, either yet that year, or coming in the next year. So, you kind of forget about the guys that are not really tip-top...but they exist.

YES^^^^ CORRECT^^^^^ They MISS MUCH more then they hit but they can do that because they have MANY extra bullets!!!!

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Ehhh...I think one could put together a pretty good list of PSU guys that didn't "hit" after being a much heralded HS grappler.

Not sure what constitutes hitting vs not, but over Cael's run, the Alton twins, Manville, Verkleeren, Stout, Howard, Beard, and Nevills are the ones I remember off the top of my head as maybe having higher expectations than what was achieved, for whatever reason (injury, gas tank limitations, recruited over etc). Sealey may become another.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan2]

Not sure what constitutes hitting vs not, but over Cael's run, the Alton twins, Manville, Verkleeren, Stout, Howard, Beard, and Nevills are the ones I remember off the top of my head as maybe having higher expectations than what was achieved, for whatever reason (injury, gas tank limitations, recruited over etc). Sealey may become another.

You got a few that I had forgotten, but pretty fair overlap. Also, Gullibon.

 

[HawkMatFan]

Wanna read some GOOD Horse Sheet^^^^^ there it is!!!!

BUT between the lines,,, LOOK at the $$$$$$$$$!!!!

Can't wait to once AGIN be right as ALL their U champions do SHEET when it really matters!!!!

YES^^^^ CORRECT^^^^^ They MISS MUCH more then they hit but they can do that because they have MANY extra bullets!!!!

Man, I appreciate your passion for the hawks but you are insufferable and your keyboard use is psychotic

 

[wrestlingfan22]

I wouldn’t be so sure. Iowa State will lose their 125, 141, 157, 184, 197, and 285.

only returning the Frost brothers and Euton plus Gaitan. And Paniro who has never AA’ed.

Ech coming back also. They have Merrill coming in at HWT too

 

[Nashville_Hawk]

To be fair, this isn't something new or specific to PSU. I witnessed it first hand several times 30+ years ago. I am talking about guys coming into the room riding 100+ win steaks, including Fargo, and getting rolled by non-starters....

Fast forward to today and that is still common for most, however, the elite of the elite(guys like Blaze and Forrest) have ALREADY had access to this level of training partner, so they have ALREADY adapted. PSU has also done a great job of "grey" shirting some of their recruits early enough to give them that opportunity to roll with these guys and adapt.

Look, its truly really simple. PSU is so much better at recruiting than ANY other program has EVER been. It isn't even remotely close. It truly isn't that Iowa is remotely bad at recruiting. PSU has been so good at it for so long, they grew and developed an RTC to match. Now, they are essentially too big to fail.

Prior to Sanderson's run at PSU, many of Iowa's lineups would have been true contenders year in and year out. PSU has simply become so damn good that EVERYONE looks bad in comparison. Take tOSU. They truly have a DAMN GOOD team this year. They didn't wrestled PSU any better than Iowa did.

Couple DT with a billionaire willing to spend and an athletic department willing to help however possible and you will get a poor man's version of PSU, which should still get decently ahead of everyone else, but they aren't SNIFFING what PSU is right now and I wouldn't expect that to change until Sanderson gets bored, Cunningham leaves or some type of major scandal or rule change occurs. PSU has put so much talent in that room for so long and has dominated that long as a result. I don't care how hard DT tries, short of making monetary offers PSU won't match, they aren't going to win enough recruiting wars with PSU to ever truly get to their level...

Edited to add: Here is how SIMPLE it truly is-(Haines is the only guy they lose after this season)

125: Lilledahl #1 lb4lb recruit in '24
133: Blaze #1 lb4lb recruit in '25, Ono-World Champ from Japan
141: Davis #42 lb4lb recruit in '23, Desmond #31 lb4lb recruit in '25, Nagao(AA transfer from Minnesota class of '21)
149: Van Ness #4 lb4lb recruit in '21. Perry #46 lb4lb recruit in '25
157: Duke #2 lb4lb recruit in'25, Kasak #10 lb4lb recruit in '23, Sealey #6 lb4lb recruit in '24
165: Mesenbrink(transfer from Cal Baptist) #18 lb4lb recruit in '22
174: Haines #9 lb4lb recruit in '22, Henckel #13 lb4lb recruit in '25, Facundo(transferred to OkState) #2 lb4lb recruit in '21
184: Welsh(transfer from tOSU) #6 lb4lb recruit in '23, Ryder(transferred to OkState) #5 lb4lb recruit in '24, Cunningham #18 recruit in '25
197: Barr #7 lb4lb recruit in '23, Mirasola #7 lb4lb recruit in '24
285: Mirasola #15 lb4lb recruit in '24

Class of '26-James #3 lb4lb, Herring #21 lb4lb, Class of '27-Sidun #2 lb4lb, Burnett #6lb4lb, Mangano #10 lb4lb

Disagree. DT is already matching Carl in recruiting going forward, and as someone else said he just needs to keep showing up at NCAAs like his team did last year with 2 champs. The DT train with his billionaire in the boxcar is coming.

 

[luthius dagan]

Ech coming back also. They have Merrill coming in at HWT too

Thought Ech was a senior?

 

[kegan_rivals316901]

Disagree. DT is already matching Carl in recruiting going forward, and as someone else said he just needs to keep showing up at NCAAs like his team did last year with 2 champs. The DT train with his billionaire in the boxcar is coming.

100% Agree. Cowboys have momentum.

 

[Libertylover]

Thought Ech was a senior?

Citizen?

 

[Libertylover]

View attachment 1191408

Ryan at tOSU and even smith at OSU could really recruit, just did less with more than Brands did.

 

[Libertylover]

100% Agree. Cowboys have momentum.

They need to get an annual meet with PSU like we have. Maybe PSU could take our place, I think this is going to turn into an annual beat down for us like PSU is.

 

[kijana]

Disagree. DT is already matching Carl in recruiting going forward, and as someone else said he just needs to keep showing up at NCAAs like his team did last year with 2 champs. The DT train with his billionaire in the boxcar is coming.

I don’t think you can say DT is matching Cael in recruiting. He may have had 1-2 decent recruiting classes but recruiting class rankings are often reflective of how young your team is. Penn State often has a lot of underclassmen in their starting lineup(PSU only has one senior starter this year). A hot shot recruit might not want to go to Penn State(or any school) if he thinks he might have to sit for 2 or more years until he starts. Sometimes, landing the hot shot recruit is all about timing.

 

[Nashville_Hawk]

I don’t think you can say DT is matching Cael in recruiting. He may have had 1-2 decent recruiting classes but recruiting class rankings are often reflective of how young your team is. Penn State often has a lot of underclassmen in their starting lineup(PSU only has one senior starter this year). A hot shot recruit might not want to go to Penn State(or any school) if he thinks he might have to sit for 2 or more years until he starts. Sometimes, landing the hot shot recruit is all about timing.

Class of 2026 OSU has 4 of the top 6 recruits and PSU has #3 and #21; class of 27 OSU has 2 of the top 9 and PSU has 3 of the top 10; class of 28 neither have any per FLO's latest big board ranking. Also, Okie has a lot of underclassmen in their starting lineup. Current ranking per FLO, Okie has a FR at 125 ranked #10; Jax at 133 (currently #6); FR ranked #2 at 141; JR at #7 at 149; FR at #6 at 157; FR at #2 at 165; JR at #6 at 174; FR at #12 at 184; FR at #6 at 197; and a SR at HWT. So tell me again why I can't say DT is matching Cael in recruiting. I swear some of you guys don't see what is happening right in front of you. The DT freight train is on the track and it is rolling like a MF. And just like Cael's guys, these underclassmen and new recruits will get quality development under DT's leadership. MSU tells me it's going to be a while before Okie State is standing alone at #2, and now you're telling me that I can't say DT is matching Cael in recruiting. Look at the rankings and look at the big boards. Next year it's going to be Okie solidly in 2nd, a year later there's going to be some competition, and three years from now there is going to be a battle for the top spot.

 

[AndreTheHawk]

Class of 2026 OSU has 4 of the top 6 recruits and PSU has #3 and #21; class of 27 OSU has 2 of the top 9 and PSU has 3 of the top 10; class of 28 neither have any per FLO's latest big board ranking. Also, Okie has a lot of underclassment in their starting lineup. Current ranking per FLO, Okie has a FR at 125 ranked #10; Jax at 133 (currently #6); FR ranked #2 at 141; JR at #7 at 149; FR at #6 at 157; FR at #2 at 165; JR at #6 at 174; FR at #12 at 184; FR at #6 at 197; and a SR at HWT. So tell me again why I can't say DT is matching Cael in recruiting. I swear some of you guys don't see what is happening right in front of you. The DT freight train is on the track and it is rolling like a MF. And just like Cael's guys, these underclassment and new recruits will get quality development under DT's leadership. MSU tells me it's going to be a while before Okie State is standing alone at #2, and now you're telling me that I can't say DT is matching Cael in recruiting. Look at the rankings and look at the big boards. Next year it's going to be Okie solidly in 2nd, a year later there's going to be some competion, and three years from now there is going to be a battle for the top spot.

I don't know if it will play out that way, but Okie State had a lot more holes to fill, and they were able to recruit many studs to fill them. Now those guys have to produce, and if they do Okie State won't have to mass produce recruits every year, they'll try to plug holes of need, like Carl does. IF they can Coach'em up in Stillwater, things might get interesting in 2-3 years for sure.

I'd rather be talking about the Hawks that way, but we're a poor product at the moment and appears several years away from being a factor. By then the entire train could be in the ravine, we'll see I guess.

 

[BringBackBradBanks]

At this point, next years roster is the least talented roster ever under Brands and it’s not even close. Angelo might be our only hope of keeping the finalist streak alive this year and next year, especially if Mikey C ends up on the same side of the bracket as Messenbrink.

 

[IRON HAWK]

Man, I appreciate your passion for the hawks but you are insufferable and your keyboard use is psychotic

TY, I certainly am INSUFFERABLE on the MAT as I am IMPOSSIBLE TO ENDURE!!! I would KICK the arses of you people so fast it would be embarrassing!!!!

Take it S L O W when reading my exceptional posts!!! This will help you, you will need TIME to absorb and study my advanced knowledge and wisdom. You will then learn EVERYTHING I write is REAL!!!! and most of what others write, especially the wanna bee F*** st Basement dwelling punk A$$ trolls riding Krailures D!!!! is NOT !!!!

When I put examples out there that can NOT be made any CLEARER, yet they somehow still DON'T get it!?!?!?!? That is PSYCHOTIC because reality in their world is something made up!!!

For example, when you have the TOP team for like 13 out of 16 years, and you have recruited just about every JR world team member; who have gone on to win 2,3,4 and now even 5 POS ncaas!!! and the ONLY SR level success is really ONLY one Gold and that guy LEFT!!! All this<<<<< Even when you BOUGHT in several of the USAs best, including DAKE, SYNDER, GILMAN, who ALL got WORSE!!!!

HOW do you sit their in Mommies basement with yo hot pockets and claim what a great coach this chump is!?!??!

I have FULLY given him credit for taking Fat$$$Mans dough!!! Using it to skirt the rules, and buying 5Xs more TOP Wrestlers then any other team!!! On TOP of that, I am amazed out how he can, recruit OVER top kids, run kids outa town, and still pay enough to convince SUCKERS to ride the pine and waste their carriers!!!!

So you wanna be REAL!?!?? OK, ^^^^^ that is REAL!!!!!

 

[HugoHugo]

Shhhhhh. Don't tell Iron Bird, but Brooks will be back for the 2028 Olympics.

 

[MVPFAN]

Recruiting rankings have traditionally been flawed with some teams getting higher rankings based off filling lineup needs or based off volume of good wrestlers. PSU demonstrated that my 1 or 2 high end guys that I can get on or near the top of the podium for multiple years are way more valuable than your 5-10 guys that end up being anywhere from room guys to a couple low to mid AA types. PSU showed success and it attracted more success, the program ended up recruiting for itself. The inability to routinely get guys to the top of the podium has been a huge deterant for the success of Brands and Iowa wrestling. PSU is known for winning big matches, Brands known too often for coming up short. Carl and Taylor are also better at identifying the type of talent needed to be successful from an athletic standpoint. Taylor getting 3 in the finals last year and winning 2 including one of the biggest upsets in NCAA history makes a statement, success building success.

 

[el dub]

Recruiting rankings have traditionally been flawed with some teams getting higher rankings based off filling lineup needs or based off volume of good wrestlers. PSU demonstrated that my 1 or 2 high end guys that I can get on or near the top of the podium for multiple years are way more valuable than your 5-10 guys that end up being anywhere from room guys to a couple low to mid AA types. PSU showed success and it attracted more success, the program ended up recruiting for itself. The inability to routinely get guys to the top of the podium has been a huge deterant for the success of Brands and Iowa wrestling. PSU is known for winning big matches, Brands known too often for coming up short. Carl and Taylor are also better at identifying the type of talent needed to be successful from an athletic standpoint. Taylor getting 3 in the finals last year and winning 2 including one of the biggest upsets in NCAA history makes a statement, success building success.

Recruiting is a big part of their success. Development is another. It’s difficult to count the number of PSU guys who adjusted their tactics after facing an Iowa wrestler once and then reversed the results or widened the gap in subsequent competitions. RBY is a good example, imo. ADS beat him once and only once. RBY then took him to the woodshed multiple times with one hand more or less tied behind his back. And we never adjusted to counter that tactic. We just kept doing the same thing and losing the matchup.