OK Strick- Groce is gone- I say we go the Kenny F'ing Payne route

[majp51]

an unproven assistant is an upgrade over our all time winner? Is that correct?

Come on now, it's not like the bar was particularly high. Claiming to the "win-ingest" coach at all time at MSU is somewhat akin to claiming to be the all-time passing leader for Nebraska under the Tom Osbourne years.

And it should be noted that when MSU hired their all time winner, it was whne he was an unproven assistant for a coach who had just completed 2 losing seasons.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

It's gonna be tough to find a candidate that can do much worse than the direction we were/are headed.

signed,
Sylvester Crxxm

 

[Coach34]

.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

it will all just be blamed on Stricklin.

 

[beachbumdawg]

nfm

 

[patdog]

The last 2 years have been embarrassing, but they don't change what Stans has shown can be done here and as embarrassing as they were, the program is still in a lot better shape than most schools that get rid of a coach. If our job was ever as good of a job as you say it was, it still would be today. I hate to say it, but the simple fact is I was right about how attractive our job is to other coaches.

 

[Ol Blue.sixpack]

I know you are too much of a ***** to ever admit it, but you posted verbatim what I posted about Kenny Payne the day the search began.<div>
</div><div>And now two weeks later you are crediting your "sources" - which in this case is ME.</div><div>
</div><div>You are the best kind of joke - the kind you laugh at no matter how many times you hear it.</div><div>
</div><div>And by the way, your welcome.</div>

 

[Coach34]

and other episodes that severely hampers how attractive other coaches view the job. The harder the job looks, the fewer people that will want it

 

[skint8186]

I would much rather have Antigua than Payne. Payne is like the 3rd assistant behind Antigua and Robic. I will admit that Payne is a good recruiter, but Antigua is the guy who brought in Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, and Orton. All first round draft picks. Payne wasn't even apart of that group. Antigua and Robic are always the most involved coaches on the sideline, while Payne just looks dumbfounded.

I just don't get everyone's love affair with the 3rd best assistant on UK's team.

 

[JackShephard]

Who was telling us all to just sit back and watch the big name coaches beat our doors down in an attempt to land our job. We were all going to be amazed at just how attractive our job was/is.

 

[patdog]

I'm still optimistic we will make a good hire, but even if we do 17 it up, it was still time to make the change. If we 17 up this hire, then we move on to the next guy in 3-4 years. But Stans had lost control of the program and I just don't see him ever getting it back no matter how long we kept him or how many chances we gave him. We gave him the right number of chances to get it back on track, and we asked him to retire at the right time. Last year would have been too soon, next year would have been too late.

 

[BillBraskyDOG]

You nailed it. Would be a horrible hire. I was giving him too much credit for being 2nd asst.

 

[drunkernhelldawg]

That's just stupid to say that we can do no worse than we would have had we kept Stans. This is an actual nightmare and it's the one we asked for. Our program had problems but it had other aspects also. I hate to see this mythology created again. When the fans clamor for something and get it, they spin and spin to make sure that they can continue to pat themselves on the back regardless of the reality of the outcome. It is danger time for Strick, and it should be, because this is the decision he made and he is the one at the pay grade to make it. The fans are the part of the basketball family that can stand above the fray and move on whatever happens, but the players, coaches, and others for whom it IS their actual lives will suffer from the consequences of any bad decisions.

Mississippi State is now officially a bottom-tier team in the SEC. I hope to hell we can get back up, but that outcome is far from assured.

 

[Coach34]

I know you are too much of a ***** to ever admit it, but you posted verbatim what I posted about Kenny Payne the day the search began.<div>
</div><div>And now two weeks later you are crediting your "sources" - which in this case is ME.</div><div>
</div><div>You are the best kind of joke - the kind you laugh at no matter how many times you hear it.</div><div>
</div><div>And by the way, your welcome.</div>

you are amazing

 

[fishwater99]

If our next coach can do as well as our "old coach" did over his <span style="font-weight: bold;">first 7 years </span>of his career, we'll be damn lucky.

 

[DAWG61]

from the Spurs that Payne would bring with him and would WWW now be "around" the MSU basketball program?

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

We've gone from "Any Mid Major Will Do" and "Anyone Can Recruit and do better than Stansbury at MSU" "Of Course We Can Make A Homerun Hire", to "We Need Someone Quick" and "We Aren't Really Attractive to Coaches" and "We Will Have To Wait For Our New Coach To Win Games To Be Impressed."

Just so we are clear before you come back and start the school ground, name calling retort... I supported Stan until the end but though he should have retired a couple of years ago. No apologist here.

You have championed your "facts" that we needed to can Stan and we could get any coach we wanted right away because MSU was a hot commodity for a successful basketball coach.

I am loving watching this.

 

[Dawgbreeze]

don't dare call him out because he thinks this is his board and every post should be about him. Peaches is fixing to get his wish and he is crapping all over himself worrying MSU will go back to the days of never competing. Hell, we might as well just go hire him and let someone else recruit.According to him, he will solve the X&O problem.I am sure the rest of the league will be shaking in their boots worrying about stopping all those 5'11" academy kids he would put on thefloor.

 

[futaba.79]

and there is plenty of talent within a 300 mile radius. This program is as attractive as it ever was. Your immense ego can take the hit without you blaming Stansbury for whatever has gone wrong with the search, if anything has.

 

[fishwater99]

[No message]

 

[patdog]

But a ratio of 43% NCAA appearances, 36% NIT appearances and no seasons worse than 14-16 would be a pretty damn good accomplishment for our next coach.</p>

 

[patdog]

The players that were the bulk of the problems the last 2 years are gone. No coach is going to expect to step into a perfect situation in a new job. There are a few that luck into it but for the most part when a new coach comes in to a major conference program it's because the program is in bad shape. Any coach that ever saw our job as being as attractive as you said it was would jump at the chance to coach here today.

 

[maroonmania]

somehow being less attractive now because if it hadn't been for the last 2 years there would be NO need for this coaching search at all. Very seldom when a coaching change is made is everything totally rosy, that is sort of a given.

 

[Ol Blue.sixpack]

He's finally realized that if he simply copies and pastes what I have to say about the candidates, he'll give the appearance that he knows something about it.

Even though - as he has proven for years - he really doesn't.

 

[maroonmania]

that we are any better off than if we just went back and got Kirby. Kirby is a heck of a recruiter himself and knows our "lay of the land" so to speak in the recruiting game. Also, he has more years of coaching experience than Payne and now has a couple of years seeing how another successful program is being run. Also, while our program had its issues even while Kirby was here the inmates definitely started running the asylum after Kirby left. And to add, with Stans hanging around, it might be easier for a guy like Kirby to come in than an unknown. NO, I am not advocating Kirby for the job, I'm just asking if someone can show me why Kirby wouldn't be as good or better hire if we are going to go down the route of getting an unknown quantity like Payne?

 

[ckDOG]

nm

 

[slickdawg]

It's gonna be tough to find a candidate that can do much worse than the direction we were/are headed.

signed,
Sylvester Crxxm

Croom had to clean house and restore discipline, and our hoops program may need the same treatment.

 

[DowntownDawg]

....what Stans showed could be done at State is ancient history. Our SEC title was 8 years ago. There are no more divisions, so that's out. The last time we got an automatic bid was 4 years ago.

What sticks in people's minds about our program is "dysfunctional." Why? Because this is what is said on ESPN when we are fortunate enough to be discussed. They also showed the fight clip over and over.

 

[majp51]

The players that were the bulk of the problems the last 2 years are gone. No coach is going to expect to step into a perfect situation in a new job. There are a few that luck into it but for the most part when a new coach comes in to a major conference program it's because the program is in bad shape. Any coach that ever saw our job as being as attractive as you said it was would jump at the chance to coach here today.

Hi Pat, <div>
</div><div>Not trying to burst your bubble here, but programs left hosed from a personnel and discipline standpoint like we have had the past two years have ended up with very bad coaches.</div><div>
</div><div>Consider Arkansas. After Stan Heath had recruited Gary Ervin over there, the program really started spiraling down and it was time for a new coach. No offense to us, but Arkansas Basketball is way more attractive then than we are now, and yet after getting a real feel for the troubles Heath had left, Dana Altman reneged on his acceptance, and went back to Creighton before taking big money from Nike U later on. It's only this 3rd coach removed from Nolan that Arkansas is looking up out of the ashes.</div><div>
</div><div>We won't get a shot at an Altman type coach, and honestly doubt we will even get someone with the pedigre that Pelphrey had when he went to the U of A.</div><div>
</div><div>Our best hope is a good assistant with good discipline , an emphasis on fundamental and a decent recruiter. That is a risk, but one which has a pretty good ROI.</div>

 

[Tds &amp; Beer]

<span class="post-title">In other words, you're not about to admit that the next coach might not be an upgrade</span>

If you cannot see that Stansbury was one of the worst coaches in the country over the lastthree years, I don't know what to tell you. There's no way to have a real conversation there.

 

[majp51]

It's gonna be tough to find a candidate that can do much worse than the direction we were/are headed.

signed,
Sylvester Crxxm

Croom had to clean house and restore discipline, and our hoops program may need the same treatment.

Well and to be honest, had Croom been a little more focused on getting quality assistants instead of the appearance of rewarding friends, we might have never been in the position to need to have to find a coach. Not knocking Coach Mullen, but I believe that was how close Croom was to being a great coach, versus what he was. (Not suggesting that we should have kept him, because ultimately I don't think he would have changed)

 

[tcdog]

than these flavor of the week mid major dudes, or any Duke or Ky third assisstants. I have been watching Arkansasfor 10 years stumble around with these "Hot Shots" and all that happened was Stans whipped them like a red-headed step child.Just run out and grab some new Coach throw His *** into the SEC at MSU and avereage 21 wins a year, no big deal .

After seeing all these Guys turning their noses up at Us, I don't think Kirby, Stan Jones or Kermit would be bad. Groce, Prohm, Payne , what makes anyone think these kinda Guys can come to Starkville and win? Get real, if it was that easy Arkansas, Auburn, SC, and LSU would be kickin someone's butt.

 

[majp51]

<span class="post-title">In other words, you're not about to admit that the next coach might not be an upgrade</span>

If you cannot see that Stansbury was one of the worst coaches in the country over the lastthree years, I don't know what to tell you. There's no way to have a real conversation there.

I beg to differ. I believe we needed to change directions, but there are so many bad coaches to choose from in the SEC that RS would have clearly landed in the middle of the pack. <div>
</div><div>
</div>

 

[patdog]

What coaches see is a program that won 20+ games in 5 of the last 6 years, and 17 in the other. Yes, they see the problems from the last 2 years, but they all know where a lot of those problems came from and they all know that they would be fairly easily fixed (and in fact a lot of them fixed themselves when Sidney signed with an agent). No coach would even hesitate to take this job because of that.

The simple fact is, there are a lot of reasons that coaches wouldn't have ever had our job that high on their list. Things like location (middle of bum 17 nowhere), fan support, resources, money. Again, it's not a bad job and I still think we will make a good hire. But this was never the destination job a lot of you guys fooled yourselves into thinking it was.

 

[majp51]

Let's go with the Payne

He is known for 2 things- recruiting and working with post players. If he brings in ANY discipline and a work ethic- it will be an improvement over what we have had the last few years. He has some connections, and hopefully enough to get us going.

4 year deal. Give him enough money to hire a couple of good assistants- making sure one of these guys is a solid X-O man

Kenny Payne is 46. That's awfully old to be bucking for your first head coach position. If we are going Assistant coach route Chris Collins looks way more attractive. He's 37, and has been very active at Duke as the recuiter, both he and his Dad have a rep for being evenhanded but firm on the discipline route. <div>
</div><div>Now you may know Collins is not an option, but if he is, he is considerably better for us that Payne.</div>

 

[Ol Blue.sixpack]

I would much rather have Antigua than Payne. Payne is like the 3rd assistant behind Antigua and Robic. I will admit that Payne is a good recruiter, but Antigua is the guy who brought in Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, and Orton. All first round draft picks. Payne wasn't even apart of that group. Antigua and Robic are always the most involved coaches on the sideline, while Payne just looks dumbfounded.

Iabsolutely love this post. No mention of the guy who's getting paid $4MM+. Trust me. If Antigua had been on Trent Johnson's staff, he wouldn't have brought in Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe and Orton. Andfor the record, Orton signed with Gillespie.

 

[patdog]

They hired John Pelphrey, who was considered a hot young mid-major coach and was a Pitino disciple and a favorite of his. Most everyone was talking about what a good hire they had made, even without getting their first choice. The fact is, not many schools get their first choice these days. Mid-majors are not nearly as quick to jump to the next level as they used to be.

 

[slickdawg]

Well and to be honest, had Croom been a little more focused on getting quality assistants instead of the appearance of rewarding friends, we might have never been in the position to need to have to find a coach. Not knocking Coach Mullen, but I believe that was how close Croom was to being a great coach, versus what he was. (Not suggesting that we should have kept him, because ultimately I don't think he would have changed)

Croom Croomed himself - as you noted, he was taking care of buddies, and his "WCO, by gawd" attitude killed him. Some things don't translate well from Pro to college or college to pro. The WCO and the Spread Option are two glaring examples.

 

[Coach34]

that we are any better off than if we just went back and got Kirby. Kirby is a heck of a recruiter himself and knows our "lay of the land" so to speak in the recruiting game. Also, he has more years of coaching experience than Payne and now has a couple of years seeing how another successful program is being run. Also, while our program had its issues even while Kirby was here the inmates definitely started running the asylum after Kirby left. And to add, with Stans hanging around, it might be easier for a guy like Kirby to come in than an unknown. NO, I am not advocating Kirby for the job, I'm just asking if someone can show me why Kirby wouldn't be as good or better hire if we are going to go down the route of getting an unknown quantity like Payne?

the WWW- Payne does.

 

[Coach34]

"Hi Pat,

Not trying to burst your bubble here, but programs left hosed from a personnel and discipline standpoint like we have had the past two years have ended up with very bad coaches.

Consider Arkansas. After Stan Heath had recruited Gary Ervin over there, the program really started spiraling down and it was time for a new coach. No offense to us, but Arkansas Basketball is way more attractive then than we are now, and yet after getting a real feel for the troubles Heath had left, Dana Altman reneged on his acceptance, and went back to Creighton before taking big money from Nike U later on. It's only this 3rd coach removed from Nolan that Arkansas is looking up out of the ashes. "

We are finding the last 2 years is what is sticking out in most people's minds- not the rest of it