OTState Farm Insurance strikes again

Perd Hapley

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I apologize if I missed the sarcasm, but insurance companies already basically have deductibles for roofs. All the scam litigation getting roofs replaced has companies either only covering the depreciated value, not replacement cost, or they just raise the deductible to the cost of replacing the roof.
I have AllState. There’s a wind / hail deductible and a deductible for all other things. And the depreciation value isn’t all you get, its just the front end payment. You get the balance of whatever the cost is when evidence of work completion is provided.

My wind / hail deductible is like $1500-$2000 and has been unchanged for 15 years in 2 different houses. 2nd house had roof replaced due to hail damage. Was a bit of a battle to get it approved, but I was only out my deductible in the end, for brand new roof / gutters when the previous one was 18 years old.
 

Perd Hapley

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Yeah. The agent gets cut out of the loop when it comes to a claim. It’s not your agent, it’s the insurance company.
Not necessarily true for AllState. My agent went to war with claims department, gave me the exact phrasing to use in an email to him that he could forward to claims in order to expedite field adjustor review, and helped me get the approval. At least in All State’s case, they are incentivized heavily on customer retention.
 

Anon1747906178

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May 22, 2025
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I have State Farm, in TN. I thought they were getting expensive. Had all state quote, they were $100 more per month. Called an independent agent, left a message. Got a text back telling me to go to a website and fill out a bunch of info, then he’d call me back after I did all his work. I just stayed with State Farm.

I’m with State Farm in MS. Recently did the same thing. Found that I could get auto insurance cheaper but no one could come close to my home insurance rate. In fact had an independent agent tell me that my home insurance was so good that I needed to stick with State Farm, so I did.
 

Villagedawg

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You’re right, there’s no way our federal government could do something like that. Requires Congress to not be intellectually challenged.
I like to think of it more as financially challenged. Meaning they love the money and benefits they get from the groups that don’t want it fixed.
 
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Bullldawg78

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I just dropped State Farm after being a customer for 20 years, tired of seeing so many DEI Jake commercials and naming rights on stadiums etc.
 
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I like to think of it more as financially challenged. Meaning they love the money and benefits they get from the groups that don’t want it fixed.
thats it GIF
 

Dawgbite

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Not necessarily true for AllState. My agent went to war with claims department, gave me the exact phrasing to use in an email to him that he could forward to claims in order to expedite field adjustor review, and helped me get the approval. At least in All State’s case, they are incentivized heavily on customer retention.
My State Farm agent showed up in my driveway on a Sunday morning about a month after the tornado. He stood there and told me that anything over $10,000 was out of his control and he had no input, I’d have to call the 1-800 number and deal with SF myself. Never saw him or talked to him again after that. I wouldn’t piss in his face if his nose was on fire!
 

mcdawg22

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I went to Universal Insurance from Geovera last week and dropped from $6700 to $3500 per year. Living in Florida within a half mile of the beach gets expensive quick.
I feel your pain. But not quite that painful. Nobody covers down hear. We are with frontline and they have actually been great to work with but we only have had Sally and we had no damage unlike you guys and Michael.
 
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Yeah. If you’re paying out $1.26 in claims for every $1 of premium income there are only 3 choices. Raise premiums, leave the state completely or go bankrupt. The huge costs of natural disasters over the last 2 decades have put a lot of pressure on the home insurance market. And it’s not gonna get better any time soon.
This is correct, but it's not the whole story. Insurance companies have generally failed to survey the risk landscape in P&C for the last 30 years and change their model accordingly over that timeline. Not only has there been a failure to adapt to changing climate models that have been forecasting more extreme weather everywhere (not just the beaches and the dry states), the investment side of insurance got more "risk tolerant" and made bad bets. Similar to some of the state retirement/pension plans.

So, now they're playing catch-up by cranking up premiums in most markets to cover for their exposure in the riskiest places. They're denying more claims and forcing litigation, which suppresses claims. And, they're pulling out of certain markets that are untenable.

State Farm is terrible, but they're garden variety terrible. American Family is one of the worst in the Mountain West, for example.
 
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I posted a similar incident that happened to my parents. They cancelled her homeowners and auto. Cited the age of the house (18 yo) and the fact she has a claim on auto insurance. They are absolutely evil.
This is what is so terrible about the P&C insurers. A homeowners calls them, gets a quote for coverage. Historically (over the last 25 years) that is marketed as replacement cost of the primary structure, including the roof. The agent quotes the price *pending some type of property appraisal to determine condition and insurability*. 99% of the time, this is pro forma and is approved. For example, State Farm now has an app that you take the photos and upload yourself.

Now, a loss happens. Let's say a straight-forward hailstorm that damages the roof and nothing else. The company denies the claim based on the age/poor condition of the roof. This is breach of contract and bad faith insurance handling.

The condition precedent to providing coverage is that the company confirms that the structure is worth insuring and replacing. They gloss over this to get the premium, knowing that they will create a barrier to recovery by making the claims process difficult and requiring lawyer involvement.
 
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And it's not just raising rates. There are also pretty severe reductions in benefits while rates increase. For example, going from a $200 deductible to 1% of the value of the property. That's a huge reduction. You'll notice the cost of the policy going up, but you might not notice vastly reduced payouts.
And also magically "reforming" existing policies from RCV to ACV. I've been b*tching about this for years. People don't read their renewal docs. Most are surprised to find out they're losing a major part of their coverage.
 
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My buddy was an independent claims adjuster for years, and now operates a claims consulting company....he is helping my roof denial from a hail storm right now....when we got to talking about insurers, he mentioned to stay away from anyone underwritten by Lloyd's of London (which is a lot of them).....but specifically, State Farm and All State being the absolute worst of the worst.....did say Farm Bureau was by far the best to work with, but even they have become overly expensive....but they pay claims. FWIW
 

Perd Hapley

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My State Farm agent showed up in my driveway on a Sunday morning about a month after the tornado. He stood there and told me that anything over $10,000 was out of his control and he had no input, I’d have to call the 1-800 number and deal with SF myself. Never saw him or talked to him again after that. I wouldn’t piss in his face if his nose was on fire!
Well then either State Farms sucks and has a drastically different model, or your agent sucks. Maybe both. Can’t say which, because I’ve never had State Farm.
 

GloryDawg

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Yep. My insurance company paid out over $12,000 to reroof my old house, and that’s after my $5,000 deductible. For a very middle class 1,600 sq ft house. Admittedly, it’s a damn nice roof. But still.
My premiums went up with Farm Bureau. I called my agent and asked why. He looked and said my roof was 18 years old and that was driving my premiums up. He sent a roofer out to my house and flew a drone over it, and it did have hail damage. My roof replacement does not depreciate with age. It was going to cost $22000.00 to replace my roof. I had a $2000.00 deductible. The roofer ate the deductible, Farm Bureau paid 20K and once the roof was on Farm Bureau refunded premium of 700.00 to me since they gave me a new rate. I feel pretty lucky.
 
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paindonthurt

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Gonna post his without comment:
I dislike insurance as much as the next guy but

State Farm
2023
Revenue $014.2 billion
Net income LOSS -$6.

2024
Revenue $123 billion
Net income $5.3 billion

those are thin margins and homeowners can shop around.

My insurance is going up. I’ve already shopped around and pretty much gonna be able to do a 5% increase vs a 25% increase.
 
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I dislike insurance as much as the next guy but

State Farm
2023
Revenue $014.2 billion
Net income LOSS -$6.

2024
Revenue $123 billion
Net income $5.3 billion

those are thin margins and homeowners can shop around.

My insurance is going up. I’ve already shopped around and pretty much gonna be able to do a 5% increase vs a 25% increase.
The inquiry should be why the income is so low on revenue. They will always point to claims payouts, "fraud" and lawyers. Very generally, that is not the case.
 

paindonthurt

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If we keep deporting "guest workers," costs to replace roofs will double or more. Insurance companies may respond with separate polices or deductibles just for roofs.
Nah we’ll just let them in through a program like we should.

Side note: I had an all black crew and black owner put on a roof for me in 2019. Great price and great work.

there are people in this country willing to work. Just gotta find them.
 

paindonthurt

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The inquiry should be why the income is so low on revenue. They will always point to claims payouts, "fraud" and lawyers. Very generally, that is not the case.
Then what is the case? Don’t just take the easy road and say “it’s not the case”. Say what it is.
 

patdog

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The inquiry should be why the income is so low on revenue. They will always point to claims payouts, "fraud" and lawyers. Very generally, that is not the case.
Because it's a very risky competitive business. Margins are low. These insurance companies aren't walking away from entire states because they're making money there.
 
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Then what is the case? Don’t just take the easy road and say “it’s not the case”. Say what it is.
I'm not dodging, I just posted something similar earlier in the thread and didn't want to clog it up.

Trying to keep this short(ish)- about 15-20 years of overly aggressive investment of premium dollars where they used to be more conservative (partly because of an inability to purchase conservative bonds in low interest rate environments of the 2010's), failure to acknowledge the growing risk profile of the market across the US over that same time span, extensive increased claims exposure across the market.

By way of one example, where I live has always had significant hail events. However, in 2016, 2017 and 2018, the Front Range had 3 hail storms that caused ~$3 billion in property damage. That roughly equaled the total $ of property damage of all storms from the previous 25 years.

Other states where there have been historically fewer catastrophic claims have now seen increased events. These companies historically were able to insure certain markets with more certainty while balancing that risk in more volatile markets. Basically, all non-coastal states were relatively stable compared to coastal markets vis a vis catastrophic events. That's changed. Inscos have finally worked that into their business model, which has resulted in the massive policy increases over the last 5-10 years.

Also, and I can't stress this enough, the standard coverages have changed from 5 years ago. Most people don't know this until they make a claim. Several people have already mentioned that companies have changed from the conventional fixed deductible ($1,500, $2,500, etc.) to a percentage of the replacement cost, usually 1%. That is typically $4,000 on US homes, usually more in good markets. Most of the companies have changed roof coverage to payment of ACV (actual cash value) from RCV (replacement cost value), which means that if your roof is getting close to the end of its life, they're only paying for its current depreciated cash value. That's not a big deal if you have a new or newer home or you bought a ACV policy initially and have been preparing to pay for a roof over that time. But, when you buy a 10 year old home and get a RCV policy knowing that the roof is 1/2 way to full depreciation and then the company changes the policy on renewal, that sucks for homeowners. Literally millions of people have had this happen in the last few years.

This is how inscos are handling the roofing *fraud* issue, by the way. Punishing the homeowners, not the roofing companies. That's a topic for another day though.
 
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Because it's a very risky competitive business. Margins are low. These insurance companies aren't walking away from entire states because they're making money there.
Sounds like me and you might have been on opposite sides of each other regarding insurance! Respect your opinions across the board, but respectfully disagree on insurance. I've read too many documents and deposed too many mouth-breathing insurance executives over the last 20 years. Doesn't mean that everyone in insurance is a boogeyman, but like most large publicly-traded companies, they're not in the business of making life easier for individuals. The difference is that they are inherently making that explicit promise through their product.
 

horshack.sixpack

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A brutal derecho hit us in August '20. New roof, new gutters, new shed roof too for a total cost of $26800. Some dude from Florida assessed damage within days and took me on the roof to understand everything. Really helpful.
- Allstate paid up quickly and fully covered everything except the deductible, and paid extra as work was done and more damage was discovered.

A brutal hail storm hit us in August '22. My vehicle had $9500 in damage. Some dude from Texas assessed damage within 2 days and showed me the whole bending light processes used to document damage on a white painted vehicle.
- Allstate paid up quickly and fully covered everything except the deductible, and money was direct deposited within 24hrs.

A brutal dumb driving error by my oldest wrecked that hail damaged vehicle in May '23. Some assessor valued it at a yard at $13300.
- Allstate paid up quickly and the only delay was because I pushed back to whoever I spoke with on the phone and provided examples/reasoning for it being worth $14900. Money was direct deposited within 24hrs.


Allstate has not increased our premiums from the roof or hail damage. Car insurance increased because a 17yo proved that rates should be higher for that age group, but the increase was reasonable(sizable, but reasonable) and lasts 1 year of coverage.
About 10 years ago we went to State Farm to see what they would cost and when we showed the guy our Allstate costs and coverage, he jokingly said that we should be happy and not waste our time asking other companies for comparison costs.



TLDR for pain - Allstate has been responsive, fair, and hasnt penalized us or our area in general...yet. I am pretty sure I should just be happy the claims happened shortly before the insurance industry seemed to start increasing premiums so much and dropping people left and right for submitting claims.
This may just be me whistling past the graveyard and a reckoning is coming.
I had a great experience with State Farm post tornado, but it was in 2001 so, unlike your example, mine is not contemporary enough to be relevant today...it's funny how a good experience sticks with you though and even all these years later when I see State Farm being bashed, my first thought is, well, I had no trouble and my second thought is, I'm ancient...
 

horshack.sixpack

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It's coming. Global warming and the wild weather is the reason they're using by the way. I had one insurance company try to tell me I couldn't keep an old car in my yard (parts car I used). I told those 17rs to eat **** and die!
The wild weather is real, regardless of the cause, and claims associated with it are real as well. Insurance companies prioritize profits. Short of some regulatory requirements that cap profits and force coverage I'm not sure what you do about it.
 
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The final thing that I'll add to this topic is the mandatory coverage requirement that makes this galling as hell.

Everyone knows that if you've got a mortgage, then you have to carry P&C insurance to secure the bank's collateral from perils. So, basically you, the homeowner, have to pay for a product to protect the property.

You, the homeowner, as part of your insurance contract, have the duty to mitigate damages in order to maintain coverage. In other words, you not only have to take care of the property, you have to fix the property while waiting on an open claim. This is ridiculous in many cases, because most people rely on the insurance to pay for the repairs.

The insurers then take an adversarial position with you for a significant amount of claims, dragging out the process. Then, they raise failure to mitigate as a basis for claims denial.

Finally, if you have a damage event and decide not to report it because you don't want to risk getting dropped or paying a deductible, the subsequent damage that you do report can be blamed on the earlier event and the insurance company will say that the damage is from that, therefore not covered.

Maybe the mortgage company should be required to maintain P&C coverage. It's their property anyway.
 

patdog

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Sounds like me and you might have been on opposite sides of each other regarding insurance! Respect your opinions across the board, but respectfully disagree on insurance. I've read too many documents and deposed too many mouth-breathing insurance executives over the last 20 years. Doesn't mean that everyone in insurance is a boogeyman, but like most large publicly-traded companies, they're not in the business of making life easier for individuals. The difference is that they are inherently making that explicit promise through their product.
Just to be clear, I'm certainly not saying there's not some horror stories out there, especially in health insurance. But property insurance claims have legitimately skyrocketed in the last 20 years or so for several reasons, one of which would get this thread locked.
 

paindonthurt

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Sounds like me and you might have been on opposite sides of each other regarding insurance! Respect your opinions across the board, but respectfully disagree on insurance. I've read too many documents and deposed too many mouth-breathing insurance executives over the last 20 years. Doesn't mean that everyone in insurance is a boogeyman, but like most large publicly-traded companies, they're not in the business of making life easier for individuals. The difference is that they are inherently making that explicit promise through their product.
What does that have to do with what he said?

Insurance companies aren't walking away from states where they are making money. They are in the business of more revenue and more profit. Not less.
 

paindonthurt

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The wild weather is real, regardless of the cause, and claims associated with it are real as well. Insurance companies prioritize profits. Short of some regulatory requirements that cap profits and force coverage I'm not sure what you do about it.
Capping profits should be a non starter. Their profit margins are already super low.

About the only things you can do a bout it are:

1. Create ways for more competition.
2. Tort reform

Maybe there are other things but i can't think of them.
 
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What does that have to do with what he said?

Insurance companies aren't walking away from states where they are making money. They are in the business of more revenue and more profit. Not less.
I responded to you with a pretty long post trying to answer your question in good faith. There are several things to discuss/debate that I teed up in my post, which is what I was trying to encourage. You responded to another post between me and another person instead, just posting another argumentative question. From that, I'll presume you're not actually interested in a discussion on the merits and move on.
 

mcdawg22

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Capping profits should be a non starter. Their profit margins are already super low.

About the only things you can do a bout it are:

1. Create ways for more competition.
2. Tort reform

Maybe there are other things but i can't think of them.
Maybe State Farm’s profit margin wouldn’t be so low if they weren’t producing elaborate commercials with tons of celebrities. I get you have to market but it’s clear insurance companies marketing departments have access to the purse strings.
 
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This is an article from an insurance industry source discussing the current P&C crisis, and it's about the real conditions of existing weather conditions and the insufficiency of asphalt roofs for modern construction for insurance purposes. Couple of solutions discussed in the article.

 
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horshack.sixpack

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Capping profits should be a non starter. Their profit margins are already super low.

About the only things you can do a bout it are:

1. Create ways for more competition.
2. Tort reform

Maybe there are other things but i can't think of them.
I'd be curious to see data on losses due to frivolous lawsuits. I suspect we'd get stuck at defining "frivolous"...
 
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Capping profits should be a non starter. Their profit margins are already super low.

About the only things you can do a bout it are:

1. Create ways for more competition.
2. Tort reform

Maybe there are other things but i can't think of them.
Just for kicks, I will bite on your post here.

What is "tort reform" to you? And what specific legislative/judicial policies would you enact in your state to enact such reform?

And, if I may borrow a quote from you, "Don’t just take the easy road and say “tort reform”. Say what it is."
 
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paindonthurt

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I responded to you with a pretty long post trying to answer your question in good faith. There are several things to discuss/debate that I teed up in my post, which is what I was trying to encourage. You responded to another post between me and another person instead, just posting another argumentative question. From that, I'll presume you're not actually interested in a discussion on the merits and move on.
I'm specifically asking what did you reply to patdog have to do with what patdog asked?

As it pertains to my original post that you replied to.
I didn't go through your long reply b/c it seems pretty easy to answer (base on what i asked)
They lost money in 2023.
They made very little money as it pertains to % of revenue in 2024.

Why? List categories. Is it pay? Is it advertising? fraud? more claims than usual? Don't write a book when a few words will do.
 

paindonthurt

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Maybe State Farm’s profit margin wouldn’t be so low if they weren’t producing elaborate commercials with tons of celebrities. I get you have to market but it’s clear insurance companies marketing departments have access to the purse strings.
This might be the case. I'd love to see the financials on it.

But as you stated they all market and in some cases that have to market at least some. Did their marketing budget take up enough to overcome $6 billion in losses?
 

paindonthurt

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Just for kicks, I will bite on your post here.

What is "tort reform" to you? And what specific legislative/judicial policies would you enact in your state to enact such reform?

And, if I may borrow a quote from you, "Don’t just take the easy road and say “tort reform”. Say what it is."
I'll answer your question when you can answer other simple ones that you made the claim. The burden is on you to prove it.

But for poops and giggles. Tort reform in making the person doing the suing have some skin in the game. Like if you bring a frivolous lawsuit the defendant can be reimbursed for legal fees or even counter sue easier.

Being able to sue someone for wrongful doing is good.
Being able to sue someone just in hopes of getting a settlement for something that isn't wrongful is bunk and **** ish.
 

patdog

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But for poops and giggles. Tort reform in making the person doing the suing have some skin in the game. Like if you bring a frivolous lawsuit the defendant can be reimbursed for legal fees or even counter sue easier.
This is really the only tort reform needed. Loser pays the winner's reasonable attorney fees. If you have a case, this won't stop any good lawyer from suing. But it'll stop the frivolous ones just about cold.
 
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