OTState Farm Insurance strikes again

[FrontRangeDawg]

I'll answer your question when you can answer other simple ones that you made the claim. The burden is on you to prove it.

But for poops and giggles. Tort reform in making the person doing the suing have some skin in the game. Like if you bring a frivolous lawsuit the defendant can be reimbursed for legal fees or even counter sue easier.

Being able to sue someone for wrongful doing is good.
Being able to sue someone just in hopes of getting a settlement for something that isn't wrongful is bunk and **** ish.

I mean, you ducked the question after being sanctimonious to me about being specific. You weren't specific. That's fine.

But, prepare to have your mind blown wide open. Every state and federal district has that very system in place; awards of attorney fees to an opposing party defending a baseless claim have existed for decades.

Why don't you try again to articulate some actual specific legislative reforms you'd suggest? And I know you know this, but at the risk of condescending to an expert, changes of this nature to insurance law wouldn't be achieved through "tort reform".

I look forward to the continued robust debate on the merits with a subject-matter expert.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Maybe State Farm’s profit margin wouldn’t be so low if they weren’t producing elaborate commercials with tons of celebrities. I get you have to market but it’s clear insurance companies marketing departments have access to the purse strings.

I only buy my products based on celebrity endorsements.***

 

[paindonthurt]

I mean, you ducked the question after being sanctimonious to me about being specific. You weren't specific. That's fine.

But, prepare to have your mind blown wide open. Every state and federal district has that very system in place; awards of attorney fees to an opposing party defending a baseless claim have existed for decades.

Why don't you try again to articulate some actual specific legislative reforms you'd suggest? And I know you know this, but at the risk of condescending to an expert, changes of this nature to insurance law wouldn't be achieved through "tort reform".

I look forward to the continued robust debate on the merits with a subject-matter expert.

I'm specifically asking what did you reply to patdog have to do with what patdog asked?

As it pertains to my original post that you replied to.
I didn't go through your long reply b/c it seems pretty easy to answer (base on what i asked)
They lost money in 2023.
They made very little money as it pertains to % of revenue in 2024.

Why? List categories. Is it pay? Is it advertising? fraud? more claims than usual? Don't write a book when a few words will do.

 

[GloryDawg]

Farm Bureau did the same to my parents about 25 years ago. Out of the blue. Customers for about 35 years and just dropped like yesterday’s newspaper.

A little secret Farm Bureau agents have a little say who gets dropped or not. They have a loss ratio they have to maintain. If you start having a lot of claims hurting their loss ratio they may or may not agree to keep you. The company will say something to the agent first and get his input. He cannot control prices, but he has a say if someone gets dropped or not. What I am saying is he or she can save you.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

I'm specifically asking what did you reply to patdog have to do with what patdog asked?

As it pertains to my original post that you replied to.
I didn't go through your long reply b/c it seems pretty easy to answer (base on what i asked)
They lost money in 2023.
They made very little money as it pertains to % of revenue in 2024.

Why? List categories. Is it pay? Is it advertising? fraud? more claims than usual? Don't write a book when a few words will do.

You asked me a question, I answered, then you said "I didn't read your answer", then answered your own question and asked me the same thing again. Maybe you should read what I wrote you. Sry if 2 long 4 u.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

A little secret Farm Bureau agents have a little say who gets dropped or not. They have a loss ratio they have to maintain. If you start having a lot of claims hurting their loss ratio they may or may not agree to keep you. The company will say something to the agent first and get his input. He cannot control prices, but he has a say if someone gets dropped or not. What I am saying is he or she can save you.

This is a good point. I know that the mutual companies had this as well. Not sure if they still do.

 

[GloryDawg]

This is why I would not want to be the Insurance Commissioner of any state especially a state where he is elected and not appointed. All Homeowner rates have to be approved by him or her. It's a Jungling act trying to keep insurance companies profitable so the state will have carriers and keeping the prices affordable for the insurers.

 

[paindonthurt]

I mean, you ducked the question after being sanctimonious to me about being specific. You weren't specific. That's fine.

But, prepare to have your mind blown wide open. Every state and federal district has that very system in place; awards of attorney fees to an opposing party defending a baseless claim have existed for decades.

Why don't you try again to articulate some actual specific legislative reforms you'd suggest? And I know you know this, but at the risk of condescending to an expert, changes of this nature to insurance law wouldn't be achieved through "tort reform".

I look forward to the continued robust debate on the merits with a subject-matter expert.

Bc you wrote a book that doesn't make sense to the average person who isn't an insurance expert.

Its really simple.

Revenue minus expenses = profit
If profit is bad, revenue has to go up or expenses has to go down OR BOTH.

What expenses were too high for them to make a profit? Be clear and concise or i'll just pretend you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[paindonthurt]

This is why I would not want to be the Insurance Commissioner of any state especially a state where he is elected and not appointed. All Homeowner rates have to be approved by him or her. It's a Jungling act trying to keep insurance companies profitable so the state will have carriers and keeping the prices affordable for the insurers.

Yeah makes it tough. Term limits should probably come into play again here.

Someone explain to me like i'm dumber than OG goat on why insurance is handled on a state by state basis? Whats the logic and justification for that?

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

Bc you wrote a book that doesn't make sense to the average person who isn't an insurance expert.

Its really simple.

Revenue minus expenses = profit
If profit is bad, revenue has to go up or expenses has to go down OR BOTH.

What expenses were too high for them to make a profit? Be clear and concise or i'll just pretend you have no idea what you are talking about.

Bless your heart. I don't think you're an average person.

 

[GloryDawg]

Yeah makes it tough. Term limits your probably come into play again here.

Someone explain to me like i'm dumber than OG goat on why insurance is handled on a state by state basis? Whats the logic and justification for that?

Easiest way for me is one glove don't fit all. Different standard of living and perils. I think also interstate commerce laws have something to do with it.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

This is why I would not want to be the Insurance Commissioner of any state especially a state where he is elected and not appointed. All Homeowner rates have to be approved by him or her. It's a Jungling act trying to keep insurance companies profitable so the state will have carriers and keeping the prices affordable for the insurers.

Agreed; it's not a job I'd want. It's also inherently political because it involves a quasi-utility or quasi-public good. You have to have it by law, so it has to be regulated. And because it has to be regulated, here comes the lobbying $$ from all sides.

 

[Perd Hapley]

My premiums went up with Farm Bureau. I called my agent and asked why. He looked and said my roof was 18 years old and that was driving my premiums up. He sent a roofer out to my house and flew a drone over it, and it did have hail damage. My roof replacement does not depreciate with age. It was going to cost $22000.00 to replace my roof. I had a $2000.00 deductible. The roofer ate the deductible, Farm Bureau paid 20K and once the roof was on Farm Bureau refunded premium of 700.00 to me since they gave me a new rate. I feel pretty lucky.

What do you mean the “roofer ate the deductible”?

 

[paindonthurt]

What do you mean the “roofer ate the deductible”?

What he means was the roofer got paid $20,000 for something that he likely would have done for $15,000.

Probably part of the reason premiums are going up.

 

[paindonthurt]

Bless your heart. I don't think you're an average person.

I don't think you can name something simple that contributed to the costs because you dont know.

 

[GloryDawg]

What do you mean the “roofer ate the deductible”?

He absorbed the deductible. He paid it for me.

 

[paindonthurt]

This is really the only tort reform needed. Loser pays the winner's reasonable attorney fees. If you have a case, this won't stop any good lawyer from suing. But it'll stop the frivolous ones just about cold.

Not according to @FrontRangeDawg

 

[mstateglfr]

This is really the only tort reform needed. Loser pays the winner's reasonable attorney fees. If you have a case, this won't stop any good lawyer from suing. But it'll stop the frivolous ones just about cold.

This scenario would be a disaster.
If the loser pays the winner's fees every time, legitimate cases that would improve consumer safety will never make it to court because individuals wouldn't be able to take the risk.
Despite cases being very legitimate, there is still a real risk of not winning. Many(most?) individuals in this country can't afford to risk that. Half of adults report living paycheck to paycheck.



This whole 'frivolous' BS is exhausting. It's been literal decades of my adult life hearing that term without it having teeth or meaning.
Frivolous cases are dismissed right now. Courts dismiss cases for lacking merit all the time.


Anyways, your scenario would create a disaster for anyone who is in the right but can't afford to chance not getting a favorable decision. You either don't realize that is the end result or you mistakenly think it wouldn't happen often.

 

[patdog]

This scenario would be a disaster.
If the loser pays the winner's fees every time, legitimate cases that would improve consumer safety will never make it to court because individuals wouldn't be able to take the risk.
Despite cases being very legitimate, there is still a real risk of not winning. Many(most?) individuals in this country can't afford to risk that. Half of adults report living paycheck to paycheck.



This whole 'frivolous' BS is exhausting. It's been literal decades of my adult life hearing that term without it having teeth or meaning.
Frivolous cases are dismissed right now. Courts dismiss cases for lacking merit all the time.


Anyways, your scenario would create a disaster for anyone who is in the right but can't afford to chance not getting a favorable decision. You either don't realize that is the end result or you mistakenly think it wouldn't happen often.

Their lawyers would assume the risk if they thought they had a good chance of winning.

 

[DeeEE!]

Anyways, I am with Alfa insurance. So far so good. It's interesting to see the technology involved in all of this. I'm been following how companies are now using drones and AI to inspect your property. Some have been randomly dropped for no reason (roof, fence, etc.). A lot of times it is incorrect too, then customer has no way of getting it corrected. Our drone says the risk factor for you property is over our threshold. DROPPED. That's the problem with all of this automated stuff. It's impossible to get anything corrected once it is flagged incorrectly.

 

[Perd Hapley]

He absorbed the deductible. He paid it for me.

So, he inflated the estimate, and never demanded payment in full? Or did he just write you a check that you turned around and gave back to him? Just thinking back to how mine worked a few years ago….I got estimate sent to adjustor. Adjustor who eventually approved it greenlighted the whole thing based on provided estimate. I got the depreciation amount (minus deductible) first. This was like 50-60% of total cost. Upon completion, I provided photo evidence of the finished product, as well as certificate of completion. I then got the remaining amount. I didn’t go through the approved network contractors, so everything ran through me as far as payments. Had I used their network contractor, all payments would have gone directly to them from the insurance company, and I would have had to pay the deductible to them. The system was definitely not set up for contractors to “eat the deductible” that easily.

I guess I’m just wondering if there’s an “above board” way of doing this, other than just a roofing contractor doing a personal favor to friend / relative, and doing the job at cost and personally writing the check if the deductible amount happened to be around the same as his typical profit margin.

 

[GloryDawg]

So, he inflated the estimate, and never demanded payment in full? Or did he just write you a check that you turned around and gave back to him? Just thinking back to how mine worked a few years ago….I got estimate sent to adjustor. Adjustor who eventually approved it greenlighted the whole thing based on provided estimate. I got the depreciation amount (minus deductible) first. This was like 50-60% of total cost. Upon completion, I provided photo evidence of the finished product, as well as certificate of completion. I then got the remaining amount. I didn’t go through the approved network contractors, so everything ran through me as far as payments. Had I used their network contractor, all payments would have gone directly to them from the insurance company, and I would have had to pay the deductible to them. The system was definitely not set up for contractors to “eat the deductible” that easily.

I guess I’m just wondering if there’s an “above board” way of doing this, other than just a roofing contractor doing a personal favor to friend / relative, and doing the job at cost and personally writing the check if the deductible amount happened to be around the same as his typical profit margin.

I did not know the roofer. He wanted the business and said he would take care of the deductible. My insurance company was not going to pay more than they had too. They paid the replacement cost of the roof minus my 2K deductible. They would not let a roofer charge more than the job cost. He took it out of his profits. He still made money just less. He was not working the system. He was getting my business. I am pretty damn sure if Farm Bureau thought he was over charging they would have asked for another roofer. Plus, they sent an adjuster out to take photos of the roof to make sure the roofer was not cheating them out of money.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I did not know the roofer. He wanted the business and said he would take care of the deductible. My insurance company was not going to pay more than they had too. They paid the replacement cost of the roof minus my 2K deductible. They would not let a roofer charge more than the job cost. He took it out of his profits. He still made money just less.

So, he just never demanded payment in full, and you don’t know whether he inflated the estimate or not, or by how much? Is that a fair statement?

If so, that’s great for you. Potentially questionable on his end as far as how he accounted for everything, but that’s his issue.

 

[GloryDawg]

So, he just never demanded payment in full, and you don’t know whether he inflated the estimate or not, or by how much? Is that a fair statement?

Like I said Farm Bureau sent an adjuster out to the house, and he took pictures after the roofer came out. They know what the cost to replace the roof is. Farm Bureau is like any other insurance company. They are not going to pay more than they have too. They would not have paid the money if it was inflated. They not blind or stupid.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Like I said Farm Bureau sent an adjuster out to the house, and he took pictures after the roofer came out. They know what the cost to replace the roof is. Farm Bureau is like any other insurance company. They are not going to pay more than they have too. They would not have paid the money if it was inflated. They not blind or stupid.

I’m not saying anyone is blind or stupid. But it is a bit naive to say that the insurance system isn’t something that is gamed on both sides of a claim. Part of that game is having plausible deniability, and not presenting over the top information that will lead to a rejection (or an extended back and forth that causes delays at minimum) if you are a contractor.

Example - if I’m a roofing contractor providing insurance estimate to Farm Bureau, I have to put in itemized estimate that includes what the shingles cost. This requires plotting and measurements of the roof to determine how many boxes of shingles I need. Depending on the shape and geometry of the roof, I may have more flexibility on how much waste margin I can add to the total for shingle strips that have to be cut / reshaped. So, if I’m doing what your guy says he did, I may move that more towards the high end of the acceptable range even if I don’t really need it. I may also list the publicly available cost / unit for the shingles for whatever vendor I’m getting them from, even though I know damn well that I’m getting a bulk discount as a contractor for buying a ton of them, for multiple jobs.

All of the above is inflating the estimate. You don’t just say the job costs a ton more than it actually does. There’s tiny adjustments here and there that get made. The insurance companies know this happens, which is why they have their own proprietary software for calculating replacement cost. From my experience, those numbers are often lowballed, and designed to get contractors outside their network to show their work. So then the contractors come up with different creative ways to show their work. It’s cat and mouse. Insurance company also knows there are going to be things they can’t catch even though they are suspicious, because they aren’t going to be able to do a full accounting audit of the contractor. So they will still approve within reason even if contractor estimate is higher than theirs.

 

[GloryDawg]

I’m not saying anyone is blind or stupid. But it is a bit naive to say that the insurance system isn’t something that is gamed on both sides of a claim. Part of that game is having plausible deniability, and not presenting over the top information that will lead to a rejection (or an extended back and forth that causes delays at minimum) if you are a contractor.

Example - if I’m a roofing contractor providing insurance estimate to Farm Bureau, I have to put in itemized estimate that includes what the shingles cost. This requires plotting and measurements of the roof to determine how many boxes of shingles I need. Depending on the shape and geometry of the roof, I may have more flexibility on how much waste margin I can add to the total for shingle strips that have to be cut / reshaped. So, if I’m doing what your guy says he did, I may move that more towards the high end of the acceptable range even if I don’t really need it. I may also list the publicly available cost / unit for the shingles for whatever vendor I’m getting them from, even though I know damn well that I’m getting a bulk discount as a contractor for buying a ton of them, for multiple jobs.

All of the above is inflating the estimate. You don’t just say the job costs a ton more than it actually does. There’s tiny adjustments here and there that get made. The insurance companies know this happens, which is why they have their own proprietary software for calculating replacement cost. From my experience, those numbers are often lowballed, and designed to get contractors outside their network to show their work. So then the contractors come up with different creative ways to show their work. It’s cat and mouse. Insurance company also knows there are going to be things they can’t catch even though they are suspicious, because they aren’t going to be able to do a full accounting audit of the contractor. So they will still approve within reason even if contractor estimate is higher than theirs.

Too much to read. All I know is I got a new roof, I did not have to pay anything out of my pocket and once the new roof was put on Farm Bureau sent a refund of 700.00 based on my new premiums prorated.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Too much to read. All I know is I got a new roof, I did not have to pay anything out of my pocket and once the new roof was put on Farm Bureau sent a refund of 700.00 based on my new premiums prorated.

That’s fine. A shorter way of saying it…

- From my experience, it’s pretty unusual for contractors to willingly absorb insurance premiums for clients.

- It’s even more unusual for them to do so while reducing or eliminating profits from a job with as much liability as a roof replacement.

- It’s likely they got what they needed profit-wise from your job because they identified some work arounds that allowed a higher-than-necessary estimate to be approved, or they had another out like with their tax write-offs or something. Either way, they did the work and didn’t complain, so they were good.

Everyone got what they needed. Good for you and for your contractor.

 

[Drebin]

State Farm is the devil. They absolutely screwed over my uncle when a drunk driver hit his over the road truck in Montana (going the wrong way on the interstate in the middle of the night). The truck and trailer was totaled. The rear axles were bent beyond repair and those idiots sat on their hands for months and racked up towing yard costs and refused to pay for them when they finally paid about 75 percent of what it was worth after being threatened by his lawyer when they said they felt it could be repaired. They suck.

They are absolutely the devil. I dropped them a few years ago.

I had a homeowner's claim when I got popped by a tornado in 2020. Had a relatively new cedar privacy fence. Had a roof in great shape. State Farm depreciated the hell out of both of them. That tornado ended up costing me a lot of money - money that State Farm should've paid.

The trigger was when my son got added to our car insurance. It went up 120% - more than double. For giggles I went on their website to get a quote as a new customer and the quote was $3500 less than that. After two previous experiences with homeowner claims, that was the last straw. I went to Liberty Mutual and have been satisfied. Well, as satisfied as you can be with insurance companies, anyway.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

I don't think you can name something simple that contributed to the costs because you dont know.

No, friend. I've already done it in response to you and for some reason, you didn't read it or think it's opaque. I even linked to an article that laid out increased costs from an insurance industry group.

I can't make you read something or understand it. If you get around to reading any of this and want to discuss it, I'm very interested in the topic. In the meantime, have a great day arguing on the internet.

 

[paindonthurt]

No, friend. I've already done it in response to you and for some reason, you didn't read it or think it's opaque. I even linked to an article that laid out increased costs from an insurance industry group.

I can't make you read something or understand it. If you get around to reading any of this and want to discuss it, I'm very interested in the topic. In the meantime, have a great day arguing on the internet.

Nah you didn’t

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

Their lawyers would assume the risk if they thought they had a good chance of winning.

That is what happens, lawyers assume the risk by screening the clients.

If anyone cares, here's how the system works now generally-

Civil plaintiffs who file suit have three major procedural hurdles to prove their case leading through trial, with each hurdle creating the potential assessment of the defendant's attorney fees.

1. In the original answer, the plaintiff has to actually plead a claim where a jury can grant relief. If they don't do that, they can get sanctioned and have to pay defendant's attorney fees. This rarely happens, because as @patdog said, most lawyers will screen their clients for a viable claim (they don't want to work for free.)

2. At any time during litigation, a defendant can move for summary judgment when it becomes factually clear that the plaintiff's claims are not going to be successful. Depending on the severity of the defects of the plaintiff's case, defendant can be awarded attorneys' fees for the cost of defense. Also, a defendant can file multiple motions for summary judgment for different issues, so they have more than one shot at this phase.

3. During trial and after a plaintiff concludes her case, a defendant can ask the court to basically dismiss the case on the insufficiency of evidence presented (JNOV). Again, if this happens, it's almost a slam dunk that the plaintiff will be paying attorneys' fees and costs.

Finally, almost every state has a comparative negligence statute for tort, and other burden of proof statutes that hold that a jury has to make a specific finding of liability for a plaintiff to recover. Many of these require a plaintiff to "win" more from the jury than was being offered before trial. If they don't, the plaintiff has to pay for attorneys' fees and costs. It's that way where I am and much more strict in Mississippi.

So, in practice, our system has a multi-level quality control check for meritless claims. Both plaintiff and defense lawyers would generally agree on this in my experience.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

Anyways, I am with Alfa insurance. So far so good. It's interesting to see the technology involved in all of this. I'm been following how companies are now using drones and AI to inspect your property. Some have been randomly dropped for no reason (roof, fence, etc.). A lot of times it is incorrect too, then customer has no way of getting it corrected. Our drone says the risk factor for you property is over our threshold. DROPPED. That's the problem with all of this automated stuff. It's impossible to get anything corrected once it is flagged incorrectly.

One company (it may be State Farm) got profiled a while back because it was revoking HO policies using drone overhead footage that showed tree limb growth over the roof that the company claimed was lack of maintenance. They weren't using any prior pics or footage to establish whether the trees were that way when they first provided coverage. In other words, "get premiums today, drop coverage later."

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

I’m not saying anyone is blind or stupid. But it is a bit naive to say that the insurance system isn’t something that is gamed on both sides of a claim. Part of that game is having plausible deniability, and not presenting over the top information that will lead to a rejection (or an extended back and forth that causes delays at minimum) if you are a contractor.

Example - if I’m a roofing contractor providing insurance estimate to Farm Bureau, I have to put in itemized estimate that includes what the shingles cost. This requires plotting and measurements of the roof to determine how many boxes of shingles I need. Depending on the shape and geometry of the roof, I may have more flexibility on how much waste margin I can add to the total for shingle strips that have to be cut / reshaped. So, if I’m doing what your guy says he did, I may move that more towards the high end of the acceptable range even if I don’t really need it. I may also list the publicly available cost / unit for the shingles for whatever vendor I’m getting them from, even though I know damn well that I’m getting a bulk discount as a contractor for buying a ton of them, for multiple jobs.

All of the above is inflating the estimate. You don’t just say the job costs a ton more than it actually does. There’s tiny adjustments here and there that get made. The insurance companies know this happens, which is why they have their own proprietary software for calculating replacement cost. From my experience, those numbers are often lowballed, and designed to get contractors outside their network to show their work. So then the contractors come up with different creative ways to show their work. It’s cat and mouse. Insurance company also knows there are going to be things they can’t catch even though they are suspicious, because they aren’t going to be able to do a full accounting audit of the contractor. So they will still approve within reason even if contractor estimate is higher than theirs.

Almost all of the roofers and insurance companies use one of two programs to get their estimates; the most popular one is Xactimate. Guess when an insurance company is required by law to share their copy with a homeowner in a lot of states? It's after a lawsuit is filed. Seems like a good way to cut down on lawsuits would be to trade estimates early on, which would eliminate a lot of what Perd is talking about here. But for some reason, the insurance industry doesn't think so!

 

[RocketDawg]

I got my "cards" from State Farm today for one of our cars. They are now literally printed on common printer paper, and you have to cut out both the front and back separately and I suppose tape or glue them together. The requirement is that you carry them in your car (preferably in your wallet) as proof of insurance in case of an accident or traffic violation of some sort.

Up until somewhat recently they'd send you a nice plasticized card. These paper ones are really cheap, and won't last in your wallet.

 

[RocketDawg]

What do you mean the “roofer ate the deductible”?

Fraud, I think.

 

[TheDawg-Pound]

If we keep deporting "guest workers," costs to replace roofs will double or more. Insurance companies may respond with separate polices or deductibles just for roofs.

Or if liberals take charge and cause more inflation, increase minimum wage.

You could point your finger either direction and make an excuse of why the other party is causing costs to go up.

The simple answer is, companies are going to maximize their profits as much as they possibly can. Especially the insurance companies (Healthcare and property) as they know the government will bail them out if needed.

 

[HotMop]

My premiums went up with Farm Bureau. I called my agent and asked why. He looked and said my roof was 18 years old and that was driving my premiums up. He sent a roofer out to my house and flew a drone over it, and it did have hail damage. My roof replacement does not depreciate with age. It was going to cost $22000.00 to replace my roof. I had a $2000.00 deductible. The roofer ate the deductible, Farm Bureau paid 20K and once the roof was on Farm Bureau refunded premium of 700.00 to me since they gave me a new rate. I feel pretty lucky.

Holy Crap, 22k to replace a roof? How many sq feet is it?

 

[HotMop]

He absorbed the deductible. He paid it for me.

Did you get a quote up front or just give him the check?

 

[HotMop]

Just an FYI, I have been using State Farm for my camper and street legal golf cart, it was $300 per month. Just switched to progressive (Because Flo is hot), and it's $700 for 6 months.

Let me say, if you don't shop around yearly for insurance you're losing money. I feel like a fool for spending this much but at the time I couldn't find cheaper.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Holy Crap, 22k to replace a roof? How many sq feet is it?

Actually only $20k evidently****

I will say I’ve done two roof / gutter replacements in the past 10 years….first was out of pocket on a 2000sf house in 2016 or so, second was through insurance on a 3500sf house in 2023. The cost per sf was around the same both times, got up to that $22,000 number on the second one. I think that’s a pretty typical cost for midsized home.