Realistically, How Quickly Can We Move On From Sha?

[Hall-O-Daze]

Guys, it's not working.

Going back home didn't work for Ewing or Mullen. It's OK that it didn't work for Holloway, either.

The writing is on the wall. Even in a year when the conference is way, way down, we'll maybe finish fifth. This team is done, but that's not even the issue. Not even semi-big names are giving us a look. We're a bargaining chip, at best, to them. We don't have the money. That's not changing. Everyone worth a damn is gone after the season. We'll start from scratch again with a coach who has proven he can't adapt to the modern landscape of college hoops. It's sad, but true.

The best we can hope for is a coach that puts a balanced team on the floor - meaning at least a semblance of a semi-competent offense. And has a plan. A strategist who is complimented by a good coaching staff. Sha isn't that guy.

The year we won the NIT, we had the benefit of guys not being able to transfer out without any restrictions. That's over. We had three guys who led us to that title. Three guys we couldn't land now. The new reality is we've got a coach that's about to go 0-4 in the conference tournament.

Now, I'm not someone demanding "we need to fire him now", or "at the end of the season". That's not gonna happen. I'm not crazy. That's not how it works at Seton Hall. But make no mistake, this is not a competitive program. I'm guessing most of us see where this is heading. Yeah, we've more than doubled the win total from one of the most abysmal seasons in program history, but is this team really all that better? Not really. Look at the arena. There is zero enthusiasm for this program. The students know.

So the question becomes, realistically, how long are we tied to Sha? I have zero inside knowledge, but some people here have a pretty good idea about how things work. He'll be here next season, I'm sure. But how much longer? How much longer do we have to trudge through this mud before someone with authority decides it's time to hit the reset button?

Right now, I'd rather set the dial back to zero and start from nothing again. It would be better than this. It doesn't have to be a big name or a big splash hire.....just someone with a plan forward - even it's a long path. The worst thing to do would be to stick with this for another handful of seasons. That's not a plan.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[JTSHU]

Not happening. Who do have in mind

 

[hbkmyr]

It’s not even just modern NIL, it’s a refusal to adapt to Modern basketball. You need offense to win.

 

[JTSHU]

Hes gotta focus on scorers and teach D

 

[NCAAsorBust]

I think the interesting part of your rant is the lack of enthusiasm by fans, students and just local people deciding to stay home.

 

[shu09]

Guys, it's not working.

Going back home didn't work for Ewing or Mullen. It's OK that it didn't work for Holloway, either.

The writing is on the wall. Even in a year when the conference is way, way down, we'll maybe finish fifth. This team is done, but that's not even the issue. Not even semi-big names are giving us a look. We're a bargaining chip, at best, to them. We don't have the money. That's not changing. Everyone worth a damn is gone after the season. We'll start from scratch again with a coach who has proven he can't adapt to the modern landscape of college hoops. It's sad, but true.

The best we can hope for is a coach that puts a balanced team on the floor - meaning at least a semblance of a semi-competent offense. And has a plan. A strategist who is complimented by a good coaching staff. Sha isn't that guy.

The year we won the NIT, we had the benefit of guys not being able to transfer out without any restrictions. That's over. We had three guys who led us to that title. Three guys we couldn't land now. The new reality is we've got a coach that's about to go 0-4 in the conference tournament.

Now, I'm not someone demanding "we need to fire him now", or "at the end of the season". That's not gonna happen. I'm not crazy. That's not how it works at Seton Hall. But make no mistake, this is not a competitive program. I'm guessing most of us see where this is heading. Yeah, we've more than doubled the win total from one of the most abysmal seasons in program history, but is this team really all that better? Not really. Look at the arena. There is zero enthusiasm for this program. The students know.

So the question becomes, realistically, how long are we tied to Sha? I have zero inside knowledge, but some people here have a pretty good idea about how things work. He'll be here next season, I'm sure. But how much longer? How much longer do we have to trudge through this mud before someone with authority decides it's time to hit the reset button?

Right now, I'd rather set the dial back to zero and start from nothing again. It would be better than this. It doesn't have to be a big name or a big splash hire.....just someone with a plan forward - even it's a long path. The worst thing to do would be to stick with this for another handful of seasons. That's not a plan.

Sorry for the rant.

He'll be here for another 2-3 years. It'll take that long and 0-6, 0-7 in NCAA bids before Seton Hall wakes up. Just the way it works around here. Any program worth its salt would fire him immediately at the conclusion of this season. But we all know Seton Hall is a small time, weak-minded institution that likes to pretend it's big time because it plays sports in the Big East. He's about to be 0-4 in an era where it has never been easier to build a team year to year and catch lightning in a bottle. You no longer have to break your back recruiting high schoolers and endure down seasons while you build a program over 2-3 years. You can win instantly with one good offseason.

The best hope is that another team throws a lot of money at him and he leaves on his own either this offseason or next. No idea why anyone would given his track record, but there are a lot of stupid AD's out there. History is filled with programs making poor coaching hires. Here's hoping.

 

[Hall-O-Daze]

Not happening. Who do have in mind

Oh, I'm not even saying i have someone in mind! I'm merely asking, realistically, how quickly can the reset button be hit? That's all I'm interested, really.

The truth is, we aren't going to draw a big(or even semi-big) name coach. This is a tough, tough job. I have no delusions to the contrary. But maybe we can find someone who is the next diamond in the rough, however unlikely. I'd rather take that chance and have some faint hope than stick with this. By this point, that's where I'm at.

 

[Hall-O-Daze]

I think the interesting part of your rant is the lack of enthusiasm by fans, students and just local people deciding to stay home.

It speaks volumes, doesn't it?

 

[hbkmyr]

Is our lack of offensive players just poor talent evaluation, or is it just a refusal to recruit and play someone who may not be a great defender.

 

[Piratz]

He’s likely going to be 0/4 in making the NCAAT despite having 3 Top-58 KP teams. So we haven’t been awful, just coming up short. And we collapsed twice. I hope we win a BET game and break that 0-3.

He and the school proved they could get their act together this year. Important. As long as that doesn’t slide - Felt sounded very strong it won’t - it’s on Sha to finally start making this freaking tournament. You can’t go 5 years like this and not feel heat, c’mon.

I don’t like the style of play and think he needs to adjust a bit. It’ll help.

 

[shu09]

Is our lack of offensive players just poor talent evaluation, or is it just a refusal to recruit and play someone who may not be a great defender.

A little bit of both, combined with a coaching philosophy that just doesn't believe in designing an intricate offense around the three point shot.

 

[Hall-O-Daze]

He'll be here for another 2-3 years. It'll take that long and 0-6, 0-7 in NCAA bids before Seton Hall wakes up. Just the way it works around here. Any program worth its salt would fire him immediately at the conclusion of this season. He's about to be 0-4 in an era where it has never been easier to build a team year to year and catch lightning in a bottle. You no longer have to break your back recruiting high schoolers and endure down seasons while you build a program over 2-3 years. You can win instantly with one good offseason. But we all know Seton Hall is a small time, weak-minded institution that likes to pretend it's big time because it plays sports in the Big East.

The best hope is that another team throws a lot of money at him and he leaves on his own either this offseason or next. No idea why anyone would given his track record, but there are a lot of stupid AD's out there. History is filled with programs making poor coaching hires. Here's hoping.

Okay, this is the unfortunate but grounded answer I was looking for....I guess.

Maybe some school does throw a lot of money his way. That's probably is the best bet. At this point, with all the short term memory issues in sports, will any program still remember his Elite Eight run??

 

[shu09]

He and the school proved they could get their act together this year. Important. As long as that doesn’t slide - Felt sounded very strong it won’t - it’s on Sha to finally start making this freaking tournament. You can’t go 5 years like this, c’mon.

Too much credit given here. Are they better this year? Absolutely, but tough not to be after last year's dumpster fire. The record is inflated by a cupcake non-conference schedule and the weakest Big East of my lifetime. This group is a 14-13 (5-11) kind of team in a "normal" year - with a decent non-conference schedule and good Big East.

 

[Piratz]

Too much credit given here. Are they better this year? Absolutely, but tough not to be after last year's dumpster fire. The record is inflated by a cupcake non-conference schedule and the weakest Big East of my lifetime. This group is a 14-13 (5-11) kind of team in a "normal" year - with a decent non-conference schedule and good Big East.

I get that, but I can only judge them to the competition they actually play in this year to year era. This could be the new level for the BE, idk. Next year may we go back to 2-18 if the money slides.

Going into tonight it’s the highest ranked team he’s coached here in KP. They went from 204 to 46.

**#51 after tonight.

 

[shu09]

I get that, but I can only judge them to the competition they actually play in this year to year era. This could be the new level for the BE, idk. Next year may we go back to 2-18 if the money slides.

Going into tonight it’s the highest ranked team he’s coached here in KP. They went from 204 to 46.

**#51 after tonight.

That's true, you do play who's in front of you. But just keep it in the back of your mind when evaluating. I do think the Big East is trending down in the grand scheme, so years like this (with a couple good teams and 3 bids) may become the norm.

 

[CTF591011]

I've become a hater of Sha especially when my anger sharks come inside me, but I understand it's a Bit harder and have to try to risk to keep him longer. To be fair we even did with Willard and I believe we weren't anything special the first five years of his tenure.

And I repeteadily say like a hypocrite we should've made the 2024 tourney even with the bubble burst.

Still, I feel watching for 4 years, he just hasn't shown to have the talent Hurley, Wright witnessed Nova, or even someone like Mcdermott at Creighton to get guys to play consistent and disciplined basketball at both ends.

Defensively he has done solid, but even then that has always been a strength back in the Willard days. The team has never had any competent offense and if we have offense it's by relying on a scorer like Powell or Whitehead.

And for my frustrations with Willard, the fact is he would never have us lose to pathetic trash teams like Holloways has done countless times this season.

The losses and how we have lose are just not defensible. Even if we have made the tournament he would probably choke a first round game badly.

IDK if NIL changes how any program approaches when to keep or fire coaches, but for me if Sha isn't improving anything each season, he can't have the hometown bias benefit.

And I gave him my full respect when he went to the elite eight and honestly thought the guy looked like he had amazing IQ and that St. Peters team looked competent both offensively and defensively, but it just seems he has suffered the same hope someone like Shaka got with VCU and I might be disrespecting Shaka since he has actually proven to be a tourney coach.

My issue with Sha os he doesn't live up to the hype media and fans put on him after that elite eight run.

I speak from anger saying I would take Pike over Sha, but I would seriously take Cooley, who recruited and made providence a very respectable tournament contender and did better than Willard.

I feel he would actually do better here than Georgetown with a program that is trying while terribly at keeping the program relevant.

 

[HallLine69]

Realistically, Seton Hall is in no way moving on from Sha. Frankly, it's a borderline miracle that this team has won as many games as it has. The talent is all marginal except for Clark and Hines. And these guys mostly came from lesser programs and compiled mediocre stats.

I'm no happier than everyone else about our lousy offense and lack of shooters. But to say it just isn't working is ridiculous. We've got 18 wins with this bunch. That's not working?

Bad losses bring out ridiculous posts and this thread is a shining example of that.

 

[shu09]

And for my frustrations with Willard, the fact is he would never have us lose to pathetic trash teams like Holloways has done countless times this season.

I'm as anti-Sha as anyone on here, but come on. Willard lost to DePaul seven times in his tenure here, including the infamous 2012 collapse.

 

[Piratz]

He’s gotta find more balance as a coach. This is a history of terrible offense now and a caveman approach to it. Players change. The ineptitude doesn’t.

Willard’s teams were typically around the level on KP but they had way more balance and could put together better resumes bc of it.

 

[Hall Is Life]

On a decent shooting night, we opted for bully ball when the three was falling early. We shot 10 total threes. Sha, clearly uncomfortable shooting from distance, decided it would be better to throw up prayers at the rim. Dude is stuck in yesteryear and can’t figure out how the game works today.

 

[CTF591011]

Realistically, Seton Hall is in no way moving on from Sha. Frankly, it's a borderline miracle trhat this team has won as many games as it has. The talent is all marginal except for Clark and Hines. And these guys mostly came from lesser programs and compiled mediocre stats.

I'm no happier than everyone else about our lousy offense and lack of shooters. But to say it just isn't working is ridiculous. We've got 18 wins with this bunch. That's not working?

Bad losses bring out ridiculous posts and this thread is a shining example of that.

If this was old NCAA I wouldn't be that angry, I would have hope especially if we know Hines and Clark are coming back along with guys like Parker and Fischer who we can develop. Issue is we do bot have that luxury since NCAA wants to favor football schools and give unproven kids entitlement like NBA players.

I hate Sha but I respect him and want him to do good. I remember last game and he was in the huddle with the guys and I think he can be a likable passionate guy and give him grace he means well.

We also saw the elite eight run and he honestly was outreaching guys ike Painter and Calpari, but since that tournament he has shown to be a mid coach who would get lucky making the tournament with a great roster if he had one and severely choking that roster.

 

[Bud Boomer]

He’s had 3 top 60 Kenpom teams in 4 years. It’s not nearly as bad as some of you guys are making it seem.

 

[NCAAsorBust]

What I remember is seton hall fans wanted to push past the barrier of being in the 8/9 game to set ourselves up for a run in March. From that expectation it’s been a complete disaster. our best year nobody had us as high as and 8 or 9 seed. Now we’re talking like a Kenpom of 50 is good when the expectations 4 years ago were much higher than that.

 

[shu09]

He’s had 3 top 60 Kenpom teams in 4 years. It’s not nearly as bad as some of you guys are making it seem.

Top 60, as you are well aware, is not good enough. You have to be a top 40-45 team (generally) to get in the dance as an at-large selection.

Let's see how this season ends up. I'm not convinced this will be a top 60 team a month from now when the season ends.

 

[Bud Boomer]

Top 60, as you are well aware, is not good enough. You have to be a top 40-50 team (generally) to get in the dance as an at-large selection.

Let's see how this season ends up. I'm not convinced this will be a top 60 team a month from now when the season ends.

The point is that he’s close. “Missed the tournament 4 times” is true but misleading, particularly when one of Shaheen’s teams had a tournament worthy resume and would have made the NCAA in basically any year except that one.

But you’re right, let’s judge when it’s all said and done. Plenty of ball left to play.

 

[Piratz]

On a decent shooting night, we opted for bully ball when the three was falling early. We shot 10 total threes. Sha, clearly uncomfortable shooting from distance, decided it would be better to throw up prayers at the rim. Dude is stuck in yesteryear and can’t figure out how the game works today.

Look at his history. This is how he wants to play, chooses to play, recruits to play. He don’t run an offense that incorporates the 3.

 

[Hall Is Life]

Look at his history. This is how he wants to play, chooses to play, recruits to play. He don’t run an offense that incorporates the 3.

I have so many negative things to say about him and his style but what’s the point? I’ve also noticed that the blowhards on social media have cooled off on the “imagine if Sha had NIL money” narrative. Maybe his 5th year will be the charm.

 

[Left Coast Pirates]

I have said you have to get around 45 points from Clark, ASM, and Simpkins to be in the game. Tonight they gave you 44.

You can’t have the rest of your roster only score 13.

Hines is out of shape and clearly get gassed quickly, Fisher has been disappointing, and the rest I’m not shocked that we can’t rely on them to put the ball in the basket.

 

[Garyshu1971]

It’s the budget. Do you really think Sha likes his players? Until he can afford high end snipers to complete the roster he is handcuffed. And if we can’t afford players how can we afford to ditch him and his salary? Something is wrong with some of you if you can’t figure that out. It would be more useful to put pressure on the board to give him the resources that Pitino and Hurley and Willard have and see what he can do. And cheaper than firing him and hiring another coach and starting over. And if they don’t want to do it right than they should check out of big time basketball and be LaSalle or Holy Cross or Forham. We could have a nice chunk of money if we weren’t in multiple pathetic and costly law suits.

 

[phelanma]

Look at his history. This is how he wants to play, chooses to play, recruits to play. He don’t run an offense that incorporates the 3.

Forget about running a offense that incorporates a 3, how about a offense in general. There is no movement, no real creation of shots, just guards driving for difficult layups.

I just would like to know do we even coach any offense and which assistant coach leads it?

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

A few of us brave truth-tellers (@Hall Is Life @shu09) have been saying this for a while. We were branded heretics and enemies of the people last year. But seems like tides are turning...

 

[SHallguy2]

He’s likely going to be 0/4 in making the NCAAT despite having 3 Top-58 KP teams. So we haven’t been awful, just coming up short. And we collapsed twice. I hope we win a BET game and break that 0-3.

He and the school proved they could get their act together this year. Important. As long as that doesn’t slide - Felt sounded very strong it won’t - it’s on Sha to finally start making this freaking tournament. You can’t go 5 years like this and not feel heat, c’mon.

I don’t like the style of play and think he needs to adjust a bit. It’ll help.

Reality is our coach is learning on the job, we are hoping he evolves over time. He got out coached last night by a team in my opinion getting better as the season goes on with a more seasoned coach. Hines being on the bench last night when we needed offense just did not make sense. I still believe Sha has overall done a good job with the cards he’s being dealt. Interested to see how they respond after this game. So far these guys have not quit on him, even though things were tough to watch last night they played hard.

 

[PhishingPirate088]

He is not going anywhere. If you look at his St. Peter’s team offensive numbers they are worse..including his E8 team..which..wait for it went through a huge “January swoon” that year and got a little lucky Pitinos Iona team got knocked out in the MAAC tournament..but still great accomplishment

I’ve said this from the beginning he needs his style of player and he needs total buy-in we just have to hope he can identify and secure the guys who fit those roles and has success

I’m more concerned about the mood around the program..I hate how he handles the media, blowing off post games, his attitude at times..is this ever addressed?

@Halldan said that year before we hired him many at the school had huge reservations about him running the show but with how hot he was and KW departure it was impossible to pass him up…maybe this is what they feared

Also what is up with our crowds? We are fairly competitive and we can draw flies? Why is that? Is that a Sha thing?

 

[The_Hall]

I have said you have to get around 45 points from Clark, ASM, and Simpkins to be in the game. Tonight they gave you 44.

You can’t have the rest of your roster only score 13.

Hines is out of shape and clearly get gassed quickly, Fisher has been disappointing, and the rest I’m not shocked that we can’t rely on them to put the ball in the basket.

yea i mean, in NIL era don't expect your bench to contribute much offensively.

 

[NCAAsorBust]

Also what is up with our crowds? We are fairly competitive and we can draw flies? Why is that? Is that a Sha thing?

the quality of play, the style of play, and the majority of the teams we play are all just bad. Ticket prices aren’t cheap, food is not cheap, parking is not cheap compared to the entertainment value you get. How much do you want to pay to watch us get down early and miss 15 layups a game?

 

[hbkmyr]

He is not going anywhere. If you look at his St. Peter’s team offensive numbers they are worse..including his E8 team..which..wait for it went through a huge “January swoon” that year and got a little lucky Pitinos Iona team got knocked out in the MAAC tournament..but still great accomplishment

I’ve said this from the beginning he needs his style of player and he needs total buy-in we just have to hope he can identify and secure the guys who fit those roles and has success

I’m more concerned about the mood around the program..I hate how he handles the media, blowing off post games, his attitude at times..is this ever addressed?

@Halldan said that year before we hired him many at the school had huge reservations about him running the show but with how hot he was and KW departure it was impossible to pass him up…maybe this is what they feared

Also what is up with our crowds? We are fairly competitive and we can draw flies? Why is that? Is that a Sha thing?

From a buzz perspective the program is dead. We’ve talked about it before, Social media, media access, there’s just nothing to build excitement. This is the result. Not sure if that’s just an inept sports department or if it’s done on purpose by the coach and staff.

 

[HallLine69]

A few of us brave truth-tellers (@Hall Is Life @shu09) have been saying this for a while. We were branded heretics and enemies of the people last year. But seems like tides are turning...

Congratulations on the collective bravery of the band of truth-tellers. So, exactly what tides are turning? Do you actually think Sha is on the hot seat?

 

[NCAAsorBust]

Congratulations on the collective bravery of the band of truth-tellers. So, exactly what tides are turning? Do you actually think Sha is on the hot seat?

No hot seat. It’s not even warm. When you’re broke and you reward an NIT championship where 8 other teams opted out with an extension the seat is as cool as the other side of the pillow.

 

[Hall Is Life]

Congratulations on the collective bravery of the band of truth-tellers. So, exactly what tides are turning? Do you actually think Sha is on the hot seat?

This board is starting to see the light. If this were any other coach, the fanbase leash would not be nearly as long. Because of who he is, he's had a pass for nearly 4 years. I've seen the tide turn here and I'm seeing more negative Sha threads than ever before. Of course it doesn't mean anything as the school is going to see this through. Hopefully it pays off as it did for Willard. Can we be that fortunate a second time in a row? We shall see, but I have my doubts.

 

[The Crows Nest]

Guys, it's not working.

Going back home didn't work for Ewing or Mullen. It's OK that it didn't work for Holloway, either.

The writing is on the wall. Even in a year when the conference is way, way down, we'll maybe finish fifth. This team is done, but that's not even the issue. Not even semi-big names are giving us a look. We're a bargaining chip, at best, to them. We don't have the money. That's not changing. Everyone worth a damn is gone after the season. We'll start from scratch again with a coach who has proven he can't adapt to the modern landscape of college hoops. It's sad, but true.

The best we can hope for is a coach that puts a balanced team on the floor - meaning at least a semblance of a semi-competent offense. And has a plan. A strategist who is complimented by a good coaching staff. Sha isn't that guy.

The year we won the NIT, we had the benefit of guys not being able to transfer out without any restrictions. That's over. We had three guys who led us to that title. Three guys we couldn't land now. The new reality is we've got a coach that's about to go 0-4 in the conference tournament.

Now, I'm not someone demanding "we need to fire him now", or "at the end of the season". That's not gonna happen. I'm not crazy. That's not how it works at Seton Hall. But make no mistake, this is not a competitive program. I'm guessing most of us see where this is heading. Yeah, we've more than doubled the win total from one of the most abysmal seasons in program history, but is this team really all that better? Not really. Look at the arena. There is zero enthusiasm for this program. The students know.

So the question becomes, realistically, how long are we tied to Sha? I have zero inside knowledge, but some people here have a pretty good idea about how things work. He'll be here next season, I'm sure. But how much longer? How much longer do we have to trudge through this mud before someone with authority decides it's time to hit the reset button?

Right now, I'd rather set the dial back to zero and start from nothing again. It would be better than this. It doesn't have to be a big name or a big splash hire.....just someone with a plan forward - even it's a long path. The worst thing to do would be to stick with this for another handful of seasons. That's not a plan.

Sorry for the rant.

While I get the frustration, this talk of moving on from Sha is simply a waste of time; for a school that cannot compete financially now, imagine adding the anchor of a contract buy out to that? That would set the next coach, and the program, back at least 3 years. And what coach is coming here knowing we will have less resources then we have now...and we don't have the talent to compete now???

It is what it is...that is college (word used VERY loosely) basketball today, and unless you have unlimited resources, you move from season to season, starting anew.

The only way the school even remotely considers moving on is they run his contract out, or convince him it is best for all parties that he moves on. They can probably be jerks and do this simply by cutting his NIL budget...in which case, if I am him, I wouldn't want to be here either.