The Next Two Years are Free
- Thread starter rutgersal_rivals139582
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Again, proves my point, the Schiano loyalists can't handle any type of legitimate discussion concerning Greg Schiano or his fans. Very typical of a personality cult, they label anyone who doesn't unconditionally worship their leader as a hater. And once again, if you don't want people discussing the plusses and minuses of Schiano then don't start ludicrous thread after thread defending him when in fact nobody is going out of their way to attack him.
I’m open to discussing +’s and -‘s.
(+) Best recruiter at Rutgers ever
(+) Put more Rutgers kids in the NFL than anyone else
(+) Bowl Game in 2nd Season of Rebuild
(+) Successfully recruiting Florida and North Carolina
(+) Implemented the Block R
(+) Gave Rutgers Football an Identity in the past by playing tough defense and Running the ball
(+) Got Rutgers Stadium Expanded to 52K
(+) Rutgers ranked #12 in 2006
(+) Got Rutgers into the Big Ten thanks to Footballs Success
(+) Pulling in a good Class for 2024 despite the adversity of last season
(+) Hired good assistants who will be able to take Rutgers to the next level
(+) Roster has significantly more talent than when he started in 2020
(+) Rutgers played in more bowls under Schiano than anyone else
(+) Single Game Attendance Record
(+) Season Average Attendance Record
(+) Successfully built competitive Big Ten Defense
(+) Team 6 points from a winning Record in 2022
Does Greg hang to the left or to the right? Does he have a slight curve?
Al, this is a 17 page love affair you are having with our coach. It’s past the point of amusing and to the point of psychotic. We get it, you support Greg Schiano more than you support Rutgers University. This is like talking to either a hardcore trump loyalist or a deranged antifa freak. You just for some reason chose to focus your efforts toward defending a CFB coach on a message board when you know damn well it doesn’t make a difference. I understand you are trying to talk your hopes into existence, unfortunately though you are setting yourself up to be crushed at the end of this.
RU will have another football coach Al, it’s going to happen. Whether it’s next year, a couple years from now or heck even 10 years from now Greg is going to retire. Since according to you he is the only person on the planet capable of winning at Rutgers do we shut down the program at that point?
You’re just Soo bought into the idea of Schiano that even if Rutgers won a NC, unless it was with Schiano I don’t think you would be happy about it.
Someone earlier made a Bhagdad Bob reference… that’s about right
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All great things, but where are the negatives? Nobody is perfect. For 1.0:
1) never won the Big East title
2) best season ever was 3rd in conference
3) too many WTF games
4) left for NFL with best recruiting class in pocket and took entire staff he wanted
For 2.0
1) has shown that he has not learned anything from OSU in regards to offensive side of football
2) questionable coaching hire decisions
3) Lost best recruiter
4) Year 4 and we don't know if we have any QB's
I don't want this to be a bash Greg post but we need to be objective as well. For all the good he has done, we really have not seen the progress we expected with 2.0. There are no "free" seasons and this season to me is very pivotable. NW game is pretty much a must win to keep the positive momentum. A bad start and this goes off the rails quickly.
I am happy for this thread because it has us talking football but I disagree with the free years. There should only be two types of expectations right now, bowl or improvement. I am afraid we get neither this year and go 3-9 with at least five blowouts. We need one of the qb's to step up big time to show improvement. Vedral should have been a one year stop gap at best and never been counted for anything last year and that is on Schiano. For OL I really thought Felter would have been a mainstay by now and Allen would be contributing if not starting as he may be the only 4* OL on the team. We need some of the 2022 OL's to get experience this year. If we don't show improvement this year then 2024 is a disaster and Schiano is canned at the end of the season.
We’re going to show improvement this year, and next year, and will probably be in the 4-6 win range. Schedule is particularly daunting next year. And we still need additional talent. ‘22 OL still need to develop and at the minimum they will get reps this year. But not sure they’re ready to start. These next two years are development years.
Compare 1.0 to Rutgers history, and he is well ahead in accomplishments. Compare 2.0 to the Ash era and we are also well ahead of where we were.
Yes, one day Rutgers will have another Football Coach, but that will not be anytime soon. What we need from Schiano is to push to get the Fieldhouse built, and to continue to build the program. And when he ultimately leaves, he will have left the program in far better shape then he found it. No one else could have gotten the Fieldhouse built, and no one else could have continued to recruit well despite adversity.
Greg Schiano is the only person capable of building Rutgers into a winning program. Once that is done, it will be much easier for the next person because the heavy lift will have been done.
Whatever happened to ‘fence in the garden’ we heard so much about 3 years ago????
And the game of Whack A Mole continues!
Al, I hear that Vladimir Putin is looking for a new publicist: you should definitely apply!
Al, I hear that Vladimir Putin is looking for a new publicist: you should definitely apply!
al is delusional and an enabler of mediocrity.
I don't give a crap about 1.0. That's long over. I guess it is fine for a reference point to see if he has changed his ways in the 2.0 era.
You identified two really good issues in #1 and #2, #1 in particular. On #2, he seems to have learned after the first 2-3 years.
As far as #3, can't hold that against him. Fran was going to go eventually, as he has aspirations for bigger things that he could not get at Rutgers. He was not ready to be DC. Marquise Watson has done a great job taking the mantle from Fran.
As far as #4, it's wait and see. As others have said, IMO, he most definitely should have brought in an experienced QB via the portal.
Totally agree on your two types of expectations, and I would guess that Greg would agree. al is a nonstop lame excuse machine.
I don't share year fear of this season, but I'm in a wait and see mode.
Was recently talking with a friend who was at Rutgers through 1990, then did a PhD at Wisconsin, starting in 1991, a year after Barry Alvarez (thanks for the Ash recommendation Barry!) took over a moribund program.
From Alvarez' Wikipedia page:
"He inherited a program that had not had a winning season since 1984, and had only won seven games in Big Ten Conference play in that time."
"According to Alvarez, he looked for two kinds of players for his team: Players who loved football, and players that were tough. He won only eleven games in his first three seasons (including a 1–10 record in his first year). However, the 1992 team showed signs of the future to come. That team upset Ohio State on national television, and four of its losses were by a touchdown or less."
In 1990, Alvarez' team only beat Ball State, and lost to Temple and bottom dweller Northwestern.
1991- Wisconsin went 5-6/2-6, beating only the two last place teams in the B1G.
1992- as noted above, progress seen.
1993- Everything clicked, and they won the B1G and the Rose Bowl.
Greg has said several times when he is looking for recruits, that he looks for similar traits to what Alvarez said in bold above. Does that mean Greg's path will be the same as Alavarez' path? Of course not. But I do believe Greg is building the program the right way.
I have used the comparison to current Oregon State Head Coach Jonathan Smith, whose record is:
2018- 2-10/1-8
2019- 5-7/4-5
2020- 2-5/2-5
2021- 7-6/5-4
2022- 10-3/6-3
For Smith, year 4 was when things clicked, and year 5 was the breakthrough year. Smith's team took a step back in 2020, but that was the Covid year. However, it shows that progress is not linear.
Onward/upward. Go RU.
Umm, that was an Ash saying, which was coined in 2016 by Zak Kuhr, WR coach, who has disappeared into obscurity.
You do have to give him some slack on #2: landing Sean Gleeson was a coup at the time because he was seen as a major rising star. But that just didn't work out.
As I've insinuated earlier in the thread, I think we may be a little more comfortable with what we see at QB this fall.
Big difference from Barry Alvarez’ situation and our situation today. Greg Schiano inherited some talent, but not nearly enough to compete in the Big Ten.
Wisconsin had the resources to compete for years and years as they were longtime members of the Big Ten. We’ve only started getting meaningful payments from the Big Ten since ‘21, when we became full members.
Now we’ve finally got a coaching staff worthy of competing in the Big Ten from Top to Bottom.
Next, when Wisconsin was getting built, OSU, PSU, Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa and UM weren’t the programs they are today. All the aforementioned have the facilities to be elite. We are making do with what we have and that’s puts us at a disadvantage when recruiting, a fact that you and others continue to choose to ignore.
Josiah Brown is going to Penn State because he thinks he’s going to have a better experience there. Facilities are a big part of that experience.
Wisconsin wasn’t playing elite Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State on a yearly basis.
You don’t make up a strength and conditioning deficit overnight. It takes years. The big difference between Schiano and Chris Ash is intensity. Ash did have the kids working, but Butler and Schiano have kicked things up a notch. But progress takes time.
This is the first year we should be competitive with most teams from a strength and conditioning perspective. But there is still a talent deficit that has to be considered. The line is not where it needs to be, but it should be better. The WR Corp seems like it has the talent to compete, but the impact that Brantley and Jackson will have at this level is unknown. The TE Corp might have enough talent to compete, but that will depend on Konopka’s and Bowman’s impact.
The ‘24 Class will resolve most of the remaining talent deficits, but it will take time for them to acclimate.
Next, we’ve only had the culture that will ultimately yield success in place since 2020. Whereas OSU, PSU, and UM have been doing things the right way for years and years. The most important thing in the growth of the program is what kids are doing when no one is watching, and I’m sure we’ve made significant progress in this area.
We’re making progress, but more time is needed to get to where we want to be.
I expect growth from both Wimsatt and Simon but it's likely wasted behind one of the worst OL's of 2.0. The fact that he hasn't solved that issue is what could eventually lead to a new coach being hired.
Man your fourth paragraph is insane. In the early 90’s Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State were dominant. They all finished in the top 10 for the top 25 teams of the decade. To say that Alvarez had it easy is categorically insane. They are now all getting back to that level of success.
Ps. Look who else is receiving votes Iowa, ‘
Michigan State Northwestern and Illinois.
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We went from 105th to 99th. The team is better under Schiano but it's not very good. It improved over a very low bar.
Criticisms of 1.0 are kind of irrelevant at this point. So long ago.
I agree with your criticism points 2-4 on 2.0. Point 1 seems preliminary to me. I actually do think he learned that he ought to defer most offensive decisions to a coordinator. He showed this during the Covid year and at points during the other seasons. The irony of Shelby’s complaints about his conservatism last season is that NOT being conservative - rather allowing Gleason to try to do his thing (against Iowa and Nebraska) is what resulted in Gleason getting fired. It wasn’t that Schiano was unwilling to trust someone else. He DID give Gleason the reins and it blew up (against Nebraska). The trouble was that we didn’t have a QB who could throw an accurate pass and we did have a super talented running back, an improved defense and decent run blockers. The recruiting / talent issue is another discussion, but based on the personnel we had, playing it conservative did give us the best chance to win last year. That wasn’t Schiano being Schiano. Obviously losing Sam Brown changed things yet again. The point is - it’s not a true narrative to say Schiano hasn’t learned as he’s expressed willingness to defer to a coordinator throughout this tenure until it led to us losing a game he felt sure we’d otherwise have won.
Criticisms of 1.0 are kind of irrelevant at this point. So long ago.
I agree with your criticism points 2-4 on 2.0. Point 1 seems preliminary to me. I actually do think he learned that he ought to defer most offensive decisions to a coordinator. He showed this during the Covid year and at points during the other seasons. The irony of Shelby’s complaints about his conservatism last season is that NOT being conservative - rather allowing Gleason to try to do his thing (against Iowa and Nebraska) is what resulted in Gleason getting fired. It wasn’t that Schiano was unwilling to trust someone else. He DID give Gleason the reins and it blew up (against Nebraska). The trouble was that we didn’t have a QB who could throw an accurate pass and we did have a super talented running back, an improved defense and decent run blockers. The recruiting / talent issue is another discussion, but based on the personnel we had, playing it conservative did give us the best chance to win last year. That wasn’t Schiano being Schiano. Obviously losing Sam Brown changed things yet again. The point is - it’s not a true narrative to say Schiano hasn’t learned as he’s expressed willingness to defer to a coordinator throughout this tenure until it led to us losing a game he felt sure we’d otherwise have won.
I think 1.0 negatives matter because he never won anything, yet all feel he is right for the job. And that was a watered down Big East. Even Flood won a share of the Big East. It just seems that saying Greg is the only one that can win here is settling for mediocrity. What did he really win? Going to mid level bowl games? Never one that really mattered.
U need to understand what dominant means. Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan were not as good, collectively, in the ‘90’s, as they were this past season, when they finished 3,4 and 7 in the AP Top 25. And Wisconsin never had to play all three at the same time. In Wisconsins best year in the 90’s, which was ‘93, Ohio State finished #8, Penn State was #11, and Michigan was #21.
This is Ohio States record through the ‘90s,
Solid but not dominant.
1990 - 7-4-1
1991 - 8-4
1992 - 8-3-1
1993 - 10-1-1
1994 - 9-4
1995 - 11-2
1996 - 11-1
1997 - 10-3
1998 - 11-1
1999 - 6-6
The expectation for the team wasn’t to be very good at the end of year 3. We will be a good team by the end of year 6.
It’s still not really relevant to where we are right now. Or where we go from here.
At the time when we brough Greg back, his accomplishments at Rutgers glowed like a knight in shining armor. Some folks forget just how bad we were under Ash. We were an embarrassment that stood out on the rolling scoreboard screen routinely. We were losing games routinely to mid-majors like Eastern Michigan and Buffalo. Getting blown out by horrible major conference teams like Kansas. Greg promised respectability. Felt like a sure thing on that front, and so far he’s lived up to at least this. His teams play defense - so we’re no longer in 78-0 land making national headlines. We’ve been in the running for a bowl until pretty late in every season he’s been here - never lost a non-conference game yet actually. We couldn’t afford to take a chance and strike out with another Ash. Like - we really couldn’t or the BIg might’ve kicked us out. Our location is huge, but the publicity about how bad we were was getting out of hand. All that is gone now. Look at it this way - if it was a blackjack game, you might say Hobb accepted a hand of 17. He couldn’t afford to take a chance and bust.
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The play that got Gleeson fired was Simon under throwing the ball and the receiver not having the situational awareness to break it up, resulting in an interception. I’m sure Schiano preferred running the ball in that situation. Has Simon had put a little more air under the ball, and the receiver caught it, it probably would have gone for 6.
My expectations are : maybe not a winning season this year , but a more competitive team on the field.
I expected them to be better than 99th and have a decent offense. I did not expect them to be among the 3 or 4 worst after 3 years. In that way, Schiano has worked out worse than expected.
So you only look at Wisconsins best years? And you define dominant with something outside of finishing top 10. That’s crazy. Dominant is dominant. And you don’t decide what constitutes dominant. Top 10 for the decade is dominant. You can’t cherry pick one end of season ranking and say it is more difficult now.
End of season rankings
Michigan -OSU- PSU
1990 7. 26. 11
1991. 3. 25. 6
1992. 5. 18. 25
1993. 21. 11. 8
1994. 12. 14. 1
1995. 17. 4. 6
1996. 20. 2. 7
1997. 1. 12. 16
1998. 12. 2. 17
1999. 5. NR. 11
You also forget to mention. Michigan and Penn State won 2 national Championships in that same time period.
Same teams
Michigan OSU. PSU
2020 NR. 2. NR
2021. NR. 6. NR
2022. 3 4. 7.
Actually looks like Barry may have had it more difficult when you cherry pick stats.
Al, this is just ludicrous.
please start preparing yourself mentally for his firing. I genuinely don’t think you are emotionally at a place where you can accept his firing. I’m worried when he gets canned in the next two years, you’ll jump off the Verrazano.
Buddy you’ve got to chill with this.
You and Al need to take the rose colored glasses off. Reality is Greg has us barely beating mid-majors and getting blown out by Maryland and Minnesota. We are all rooting for him and the team but Greg needs to show us this year he can get results.
rutgersal said:
Greg Schiano is the only person capable of building Rutgers into a winning program.
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I disagree, but feel Greg was the only one capable of rebuilding Rutgers willing to take the challenge of trying to make RUFB the type of program he left to be an NFL HC .
Because what Hobbs was allowed to offer wouldn't be enough for qualified candidates to gamble their careers on.
Rutgers seems to be a graveyard for HCs once they take the job.
Greg Schiano is the only person capable of building Rutgers into a winning program.
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I disagree, but feel Greg was the only one capable of rebuilding Rutgers willing to take the challenge of trying to make RUFB the type of program he left to be an NFL HC .
Because what Hobbs was allowed to offer wouldn't be enough for qualified candidates to gamble their careers on.
Rutgers seems to be a graveyard for HCs once they take the job.
That's because we haven't done a proper coaching search since 2001. Seriously lets analize. Flood was name coach in 2012 SOLELY to keep our recruiting class intact after Greg jumped ship as the worst possible time after assuring us he wouldn't (kinda amazing how you and Al forgot just how much Greg contributed to the RU Screw with the timing of that move). Flood was arguably a decent on field coach, his teams played HARD. His problem was he couldnt control them and it's kinda a certainty that you're losing your job as HC if 5 of your players are arrested at practice for armed robbery.
So we move on to Ash who had ZERO HC experience prior to his hiring (Thanks to Julie who was imo the worst AD in the history of the university) tasked with rebuilding a program under NCAA investigation. He was doomed from the start. He was a midwestern coach with no ties to the east coast. We were just trying to catch lightening in a bottle by hiring the young up and coming coordinator who again, had never been a HC at any level prior, tasking him to rebuild a program from the ground up under NCAA investigation. I don't think Chris Ash is a good HC coach and was certainly not the right guy for Rutgers, with that said though it was an impossible situation he was faced with.
Insert Greg 2.0. Now Hobbs actually has a good head on his shoulders (I'm eternally grateful for Pikiell) and didn't want to hire back Greg. Unfortunately some of the donors and alumni held his feet to the fire threatening to not renew their tickets/donations if it was anyone but Greg and he was left with no other choice. Keep in mind at the time our fan's moral was in the dumps, we had only our memories to look back on for success. Those memories got the better of some of our Alumni and Donors and many jumped on the Schiano train without hesitation, because it represented the last time they were actually proud of our football team and proud to be a Rutgers fan. Unfortunately though they did not look at Greg's entire track record since leaving where he failed at every stop along the way. Not only failed but Ohio State statistically got 10 pts a game BETTER once he left playing in the HEART of Big 10 play. Their defense gave up on average 10 points a game less after Greg left with those stats including the early season tuneups which should scew the numbers DOWN. This was a guarenteed failure from the start. No one outside of Rutgers fans and alumni old enough to remember 2006 care about Greg Schiano anymore. HS prospects DO NOT CARE.
I have said for going on 5 years now that we need to hire Mike Houston. I don't bash Schiano without offering the solution. THAT'S the guy we need to hire who is actually attainable. I don't live under the delusion that a "Name coach" is going to take our job so we have to look for the proven program builders. Houston has turned around 5 seperate programs all as the HC. He never took the easy way out coordinator job to elevate his profile which he's been offered many times. So when I read Al stating NONSENSE like 'Greg Schiano' is the only person capable of turning Rutgers into a winner' a moron from Miami who adopted our team trying to portray his view alone as Bible, we need to have an honest conversation about things.
I'm sorry that you are buying into Al's trap where care's more about the success of Schiano, than the Success of Rutgers. Al genuinely sounds like the Cult when defending Joe Pa. I don't think I've ever seen a more pathetic collge sports fan and I hate that it of course has to be a fellow RU fan. At least I can take some solace knowing Al isn't a real Rutgers Alum, he's a miami guy who somehow infested our fanbase
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Your own evidence doesn’t show those teams finishing in the Top 10 every year for a decade. And Wisconsin didnt have to face all three teams at the same time, unlike Rutgers.
Furthermore, Ohio State beginning the decade at 7-4 and ending the decade at 6-6 does not constitute a dominant decade. You’re the one that stated OSU, UM, and PSU were dominant all decade when that was not the case.
Lastly Wisconsins decade was impressive, but not dominant.
1990 1-10
1991 5-6
1992 5-6
1993 10-1-1
1994 7-4-1
1995 4-6-2
1996 8-5
1997 8-5
1998 11-1
1999 10-2
Who said anything about Wisconsin being dominant. We have been talking about the competition faced. Finishing top 10 for a decade? What are you talking about. Did you read the article posted? It was the decade rankings. Constituting end of year rankings for the entire decade. Which is more representative of strength of program than cherry picking one teams record in 1991 and 1999. And at that time OSU was the weak link finishing the decade as the 8th ranked program.
Also the B1G has won one national championship since 2010 in 2014 (pre Schiano). During the 90’s they won 2 when you say Barry wasn’t facing the same level of competition.
I get it we face murderers row of Michigan Ohio State and Penn State. Not a fan of Alvarez but don’t discount what he did by saying his level of competition was weak.
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