The Next Two Years are Free

[mikebal9]

It takes a magician to turn Rutgers around in four years, due to lack of support.

Other programs already have everything in place to turn things around quickly. This is what our fanbase doesn’t understand.

I understand perfectly. Are you saying Kansas State and Vanderbilt had everything in place? More football support than Rutgers? I don't buy it. It can be done. Especially by a guy who was already here once and understands the obstacles.
Face the facts, the guy has hitched his wagon, again and again, to QBs with raw ability but not enough football skill, and he's never been able to coach them up to P5 levels. He banks on his defense being flawless for an entire game to cover up for an offense that can't move the ball. If we don't turn the other team over at least three times a game, we lose. If we ehad Ray Rice and that 06 Oline, I'd say I'm on board. But we don't. Schiano is lost, and we should move on sooner rather than later.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Bilema did it in two years at Illinois.

Leopold turned Kansas around in two

Franklin turned Vandy around first year.

Lea turned Vandy around in two (with some from Jersey BTW).

Maryland/ Rutgers we’re evenly bad until Locksley got there.

You’re not a good fan

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I understand perfectly. Are you saying Kansas State and Vanderbilt had everything in place? More football support than Rutgers? I don't buy it. It can be done. Especially by a guy who was already here once and understands the obstacles.
Face the facts, the guy has hitched his wagon, again and again, to QBs with raw ability but not enough football skill, and he's never been able to coach them up to P5 levels. He banks on his defense being flawless for an entire game to cover up for an offense that can't move the ball. If we don't turn the other team over at least three times a game, we lose. If we ehad Ray Rice and that 06 Oline, I'd say I'm on board. But we don't. Schiano is lost, and we should move on sooner rather than later.

Your choosing to compare situations in a vacuum. Lots of teams (UK certainly) would have signed on the dotted line for Wimsatt. Getting him to sign was a big deal based on his recruiting status.

We didn’t make a bowl last season because Gavin just wasn’t ready to be even an okay BIG QB. He performed significantly worse than healthy Noah performed the prior 2 seasons so our overall performance took a step back. That doesn’t mean that other areas of development haven’t moved forward though. I think with decent QB play we could surprise and have a good year. The question is - will it happen? Did not seem like Gavin took major strides from the spring game.

 

[mikebal9]

Your choosing to compare situations in a vacuum. Lots of teams (UK certainly) would have signed on the dotted line for Wimsatt. Getting him to sign was a big deal based on his recruiting status.

We didn’t make a bowl last season because Gavin just wasn’t ready to be even an okay BIG QB. He performed significantly worse than healthy Noah performed the prior 2 seasons so our overall performance took a step back. That doesn’t mean that other areas of development haven’t moved forward though. I think with decent QB play we could surprise and have a good year. The question is - will it happen? Did not seem like Gavin took major strides from the spring game.

I think the most glossed over item in every single "Will Team X be good?" conversation is the offensive line. Wimsatt can't be good unless the line is good. The WRs can't get separation if the line isn't good. The RBs can't be productive if the line isn't good. Until we clean that up, I have zero hope.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I think the most glossed over item in every single "Will Team X be good?" conversation is the offensive line. Wimsatt can't be good unless the line is good. The WRs can't get separation if the line isn't good. The RBs can't be productive if the line isn't good. Until we clean that up, I have zero hope.

I don’t think the line is as bad as you think. When we first lost Sutton, the OL took a big hit. We had an adequate game manager in Noah and looked fine vs Syracuse and Michigan. It was down hill from there that season which is why Pachecho could no longer be effective. We lost another starter on the line too - I can’t remember who. But we built back depth and the line really wasn’t as bad last year. It wasn’t that Wimsatt had no time - he was inaccurate even when he had all day, That was the problem.

 

[tico brown]

You’re not a good fan

You’re a stalking troll.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

You’re a stalking troll.

Self projection post.

Tiko, , why do you always **** on Coach Schiano?

 

[tico brown]

Self projection post.

Tiko, , why do you always **** on Coach Schiano?

@Richard Schnyderite @DJ Spanky

You know I would’ve gotten a message by now from these two if it was the other way around. But their dude does what he pleases here.

 

[kupuna133]

I don’t think the line is as bad as you think. When we first lost Sutton, the OL took a big hit. We had an adequate game manager in Noah and looked fine vs Syracuse and Michigan. It was down hill from there that season which is why Pachecho could no longer be effective. We lost another starter on the line too - I can’t remember who. But we built back depth and the line really wasn’t as bad last year. It wasn’t that Wimsatt had no time - he was inaccurate even when he had all day, That was the problem.

I agree. The OL has been bad but I think much has to do with a coaching discrepancy. . The OL hasn't been coached at a D1 level in years. Aurich was not up for the task moving up from IVY and Augie had no experience at this level. I am hoping the OL takes a huge jump under Flaherty.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I agree. The OL has been bad but I think much has to do with a coaching discrepancy. . The OL hasn't been coached at a D1 level in years. Aurich was not up for the task moving up from IVY and Augie had no experience at this level. I am hoping the OL takes a huge jump under Flaherty.

I also think that early in the year the OL gave our guys ample time and our QBs didn’t convert. It wasn’t their fault we stunk against Temple, for example.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

I also think that early in the year the OL gave our guys ample time and our QBs didn’t convert. It wasn’t their fault we stunk against Temple, for example.

Good point

 

[brgRC90]

He’s not. He’s basically saying if Wimsatt is able to step his game up, we’ll be a lot better. But if not, we’re going to suck again because even with improvements in all other areas, we won’t be good enough to overcome a QB who can’t complete short, safe throws consistently. It’s a huge liability if that doesn’t change but whether some of you like it or not, Wimsatt’s failure to materialize at RU as a QB would not be point blank blamed on coach Schiano up front. He would get a chance to bring in another guy behind center. Hence - the 2 more years though the second year wouldn’t exactly be “free”. The team would have to show real promise. And if Wimsatt hypothetically transferred and turned out to be a star somewhere else after busting at RU that would also make Schiano look bad.

But it would be Schiano's fault most likely because he has a long history of poor QB development and it's his job, it's a top priority, to have more than one QB able to take snaps. I watched Brian Kelly in person in Cincinnati, no storied program with a long history, plug one QB after another into his offense and destroy Schiano's vaunted defense.

 

[brgRC90]

Even simpler: Schiano is a football coach not a magician.

And he's NEVER to blame. Everyone else is but not him.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

But it would be Schiano's fault most likely because he has a long history of poor QB development and it's his job, it's a top priority, to have more than one QB able to take snaps. I watched Brian Kelly in person in Cincinnati, no storied program with a long history, plug one QB after another into his offense and destroy Schiano's vaunted defense.

So your saying you think if Wimsatt doesn’t get it done this year he’s going to go into the portal and have success under someone else’s watch? It could happen, of course, but I’d be surprised to see that outcome. The passes he’s failed to complete do not require much coaching. Some of them have been point blank misfires. He could turn it around but to this point has unfortunately looked like what happened with Rettig and many others.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

But it would be Schiano's fault most likely because he has a long history of poor QB development and it's his job, it's a top priority, to have more than one QB able to take snaps. I watched Brian Kelly in person in Cincinnati, no storied program with a long history, plug one QB after another into his offense and destroy Schiano's vaunted defense.

No he does not have a long history of poor QB development.

- Ryan Hart developed into a good college QB
- Mike Teel developed into an NFL draft pick
- Tom Savage was developing well till he decided he loved more than he loved football. Thankfully he matured elsewhere.
- Gary Nova did a decent job his freshman year
- Vedral led us to a bowl game
- Wimsatt and Simon have played one year, so the jury is still out

This doesn’t equate to a long history of poor qb development.

 

[brgRC90]

So your saying you think if Wimsatt doesn’t get it done this year he’s going to go into the portal and have success under someone else’s watch? It could happen, of course, but I’d be surprised to see that outcome. The passes he’s failed to complete do not require much coaching. Some of them have been point blank misfires. He could turn it around but to this point has unfortunately looked like what happened with Rettig and many others.

I have no idea what it means or what he would do. But Schiano has a long history of not developing QBs well, especially passers. Another failure might not be his fault but there's a pattern there.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

The first three years were free. What’s an additional two years?

The coach is not incompetent. Some fans are clueless. So youd rather take in a new coach who will take another five years to turn things around, then give the current coach a few years to do the same? Look at our recruiting class. We’ve got serious talent coming in.

It took 5 years during Schiano I to build a competitive football program. This time it looks like it’s going to take 6 years. Acceptable considering we are playing in a much more difficult conference.

The transfer portal is unavailable to us to acquire impact players because there is no nil support for that purpose.

We either need to support nil to bring in impact players, so we can win, or we wait for kids to develop.

Impact offensive players don't want to play in a program with inept offensive coaching. That's why they aren't transferring here. Hopefully the new hires will address that issue.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

He’s not. He’s basically saying if Wimsatt is able to step his game up, we’ll be a lot better. But if not, we’re going to suck again because even with improvements in all other areas, we won’t be good enough to overcome a QB who can’t complete short, safe throws consistently. It’s a huge liability if that doesn’t change but whether some of you like it or not, Wimsatt’s failure to materialize at RU as a QB would not be point blank blamed on coach Schiano up front. He would get a chance to bring in another guy behind center. Hence - the 2 more years though the second year wouldn’t exactly be “free”. The team would have to show real promise. And if Wimsatt hypothetically transferred and turned out to be a star somewhere else after busting at RU that would also make Schiano look bad.

Yes, pretty much this.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

1. Schiano has had more than enough time to fix this, and this team has shown almost no progress since h is first day back on the job
2. I see no signs that we'll win 6 games this year. The oline is still mediocre at best, the QB is inaccurate, and the WRs are not B1G quality playmakers.
3. To claim the next 2 years don't matter as if paying customers shouldn't expect to get what they paid for over the next two years, after not getting what they paid for over the last eight years, is borderline offensive at this point.

We went to a bowl game in Year 2. That’s progress even if we went in via the backdoor.

The year before Schiano arrived, we:

- lost to BC 30-16
- lost to Iowa 30-0
- lost to Michigan 52-0
- lost to Maryland 48-7
- lost to Indiana 35-0
- lost to Illinois 38-10

We’ll win at most 6 games thanks to the reasons you cited. But the jury is out on the OL, WR, QBs, and TE’s.

Paying customers will be entertained. Wins may be hard to come by.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I have no idea what it means or what he would do. But Schiano has a long history of not developing QBs well, especially passers. Another failure might not be his fault but there's a pattern there.

This is a completely different situation. We've had plenty of adequate (mediocre) game managers under Schiano before. Heck - even Noah provided that in his first season.

As a recruit, Wimsatt was in a completely different stratosphere than anyone we landed under Schiano’s first regime. The kid graduated early to reclassify. He was supposed to be the Dylan Harper of football and maybe he still can be though that’s looking less and less likely every time we see him play to this point. Go ahead and blame where he’s at now on Schiano if you want, but not finding a Bridgewater caliber in a string of underrecruited BE players is hardly trend establishing. Right now - we have a QB on the roster going into his 3rd season who to date, has performed infinitely worse than most of Schiano’s previous QBs. 4 /12 and an interception vs. Wagner is not our offensive lines fault and it’s not Schiano’s fault.

 

[Purple-Ed]

But it would be Schiano's fault most likely because he has a long history of poor QB development and it's his job, it's a top priority, to have more than one QB able to take snaps. I watched Brian Kelly in person in Cincinnati, no storied program with a long history, plug one QB after another into his offense and destroy Schiano's vaunted defense.

I was there - Schiano had no clue.

 

[brgRC90]

I was there - Schiano had no clue.

At some point you put a product on the field or you don't and get replaced by someone who can. We hear about these same problems over and over and over.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

I understand perfectly. Are you saying Kansas State and Vanderbilt had everything in place? More football support than Rutgers? I don't buy it. It can be done. Especially by a guy who was already here once and understands the obstacles.
Face the facts, the guy has hitched his wagon, again and again, to QBs with raw ability but not enough football skill, and he's never been able to coach them up to P5 levels. He banks on his defense being flawless for an entire game to cover up for an offense that can't move the ball. If we don't turn the other team over at least three times a game, we lose. If we ehad Ray Rice and that 06 Oline, I'd say I'm on board. But we don't. Schiano is lost, and we should move on sooner rather than later.

Kansas State and Vandy had enough in place so that their respective coaches could come in and win quickly. Plus their schedule wasn’t as tough as ours, with OSU, PSU, Michigan, and either Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Iowa on top. Tough to win when you have five losses baked into the schedule.

We recruit quarterbacks who have to develop their football skills. Ryan Hart, Mike Teel, Tom
Savage and Noah Vedral all had some measure of success. We have Sam Brown, and in two years, we’ll have the 2006 caliber offensive line.

The offense needs more talent to consistently move the ball. The 2024 class will fix remaining talent gaps. Surace in particular is a baller. Crumpler and Black are going to bolster the WR room. If we land Korey Duff, we’ll really be good to go.

Schiano is not lost. He is recruiting better than ever. This years class is going to be a monster class. He’s got recruiting down to a science.

This year, we might have an opportunity to go bowling. Next years schedule is particularly brutal. ‘25, everything will be in place to have a successful season, and the schedule will be more manageable.

 

[kupuna133]

Kansas State and Vandy had enough in place so that their respective coaches could come in and win quickly. Plus their schedule wasn’t as tough as ours, with OSU, PSU, Michigan, and either Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Iowa on top. Tough to win when you have five losses baked into the schedule.

We recruit quarterbacks who have to develop their football skills. Ryan Hart, Mike Teel, Tom
Savage and Noah Vedral all had some measure of success. We have Sam Brown, and in two years, we’ll have the 2006 caliber offensive line.

The offense needs more talent to consistently move the ball. The 2024 class will fix remaining talent gaps. Surace in particular is a baller. Crumpler and Black are going to bolster the WR room. If we land Korey Duff, we’ll really be good to go.

Schiano is not lost. He is recruiting better than ever. This years class is going to be a monster class. He’s got recruiting down to a science.

This year, we might have an opportunity to go bowling. Next years schedule is particularly brutal. ‘25, everything will be in place to have a successful season, and the schedule will be more manageable.

You lost me where you say Vandy has an easy schedule. You do know they are in the SEC east? It had some down years but it’s no cupcake.

 

[Shelby65]

I don’t think the line is as bad as you think. When we first lost Sutton, the OL took a big hit. We had an adequate game manager in Noah and looked fine vs Syracuse and Michigan. It was down hill from there that season which is why Pachecho could no longer be effective. We lost another starter on the line too - I can’t remember who. But we built back depth and the line really wasn’t as bad last year. It wasn’t that Wimsatt had no time - he was inaccurate even when he had all day, That was the problem.

Newsflash…coaches can call plays to minimize selected deficient positions but not all of them. It aint just Wimsatt. That side of the ball lacks talent across the board, as i said due to philosophy. Why would anyone decent come play for a coach who’d rather punt than try to convert a 3rd and 5, let alone have no opportunity for good stats ?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Newsflash…coaches can call plays to minimize selected deficient positions but not all of them. It aint just Wimsatt. That side of the ball lacks talent across the board, as i said due to philosophy. Why would anyone decent come play for a coach who’d rather punt than try to convert a 3rd and 5, let alone have no opportunity for good stats ?

No matter how hard you try, Wimsatt to this point has still performed worse than any other QB through Schino’s tenure who wasn’t playing hurt. We’d have made a bowl last season with Teel, Noah without the numbness in his hands, Hart, Savage. The knock on Schiano was that he may have held back players from seeing their potential in favor of cautious, safe game management with a strategy of winning through defense. Unlike these other guys, Wimsatt has shown no ablilty to be a game manager. Short passes are very difficult for him. That has nothing to do with Schiano.

Look - there is a reason he wasn’t the stand alone starter last season and Evan saw more snaps. With all the excitement around him he had to truly be awful not to win the role. That Wagner game says it all. You sound ridiculous blaming that performance on Schiano. You or I could win that game calling the plays from the RU side lines. Wimsatt just sucked. and that was basically the last we saw of him until his injury. So hard to say if he was 100% after that.

 

[Shelby65]

Do you think having no one to throw to is part of the reason ? No speed, no separation, no hands….that sums up our receivers.

But wait, now we picked up a D2 guy who may be our No 1 WR ? And a Maine TE ? Does that tell you something ? No one with FBS talent wants to come here.

Wimsatt wasn’t impressive, but he doesn’t play in a vacuum.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Do you think having no one to throw to is part of the reason ? No speed, no separation, no hands….that sums up our receivers.

But wait, now we picked up a D2 guy who may be our No 1 WR ? And a Maine TE ? Does that tell you something ? No one with FBS talent wants to come here.

Wimsatt wasn’t impressive, but he doesn’t play in a vacuum.

Dude look - you can come up with plenty of legit reasons to hate Schiano.

But you can’t argue that Wimsatt didn’t have the surrounding cast of receivers to help him vs. WAGNER. Come on man. Wagner has won 2 games since 2018. Both against LIU. Our 2nd and 3rd string players are all far more talented than wagner’s players. But for better measure, in the same game Evan went 10/12 for 151 yards and no picks. Langhan threw one pass and it was a 43 yard touchdown. Obviously Schiano’s coaching didn’t impact them in that game in the way you are describing. Wimsatt was just very very bad that day and has been that bad pretty consistently except for the Michigan State game which coincidentally was a close margin loss. We don’t need him to be amazing, but we can’t win if he’s not close to as reliable as Noah was in the Covid year.

 

[Shelby65]

Bad game against weak opponent sure. But over the course of the season the utter lack of receiver talent doomed the team to offensive futility.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yes, pretty much this.

You should consider editing the title of this thread as so many posters are taking the word “free” out of context.

I get what you meant. Probably should say something like - in a 2 year holding pattern - instead.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Bad game against weak opponent sure. But over the course of the season the utter lack of receiver talent doomed the team to offensive futility.

That’s why I’m focused on the beginning of the year before we were depleted with injuries (and guys not playing at full strength). Wimsatt was not good against BC either. Then he got hurt after Wagner. Evan outplayed him and deserved the extra reps.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Al is a joke of a fan

https://syracusefan.com/threads/the-all-inclusive-rutgers-dumpster-fire-thread.61753/page-476

 

[brgRC90]

Al is a joke of a fan

https://syracusefan.com/threads/the-all-inclusive-rutgers-dumpster-fire-thread.61753/page-476

At the same time, why in the name of God are Syracuse fans having a long conversation about him? Talk about losers...

 

[RedTeamUpstream94]

At the same time, why in the name of God are Syracuse fans having a long conversation about him? Talk about losers...

Rutgers is irrelevant-yet they have a decades long thread about RU that has nearly 500 pages and nearly 12,000 comments

And yet you can barely find a single mention of Cuse on here

Very interesting isn’t it?

12000 posts talking about how RU doesn’t matter to them

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Al is a joke of a fan

https://syracusefan.com/threads/the-all-inclusive-rutgers-dumpster-fire-thread.61753/page-476

Jokes on you. Schiano is going to be here a long time, and you’re going to like it.

Glad you have time to spend on the Syracuse board. I’m not so fortunate.

 

[NickRU714]

Schiano is not lost. He is recruiting better than ever. This years class is going to be a monster class. He’s got recruiting down to a science.

so NIL and the bubble aren't holding us back?

I thought those two items were crippling us and we couldn't expect even mediocre recruiting until they were addressed?

What happened with the 2021, 2022 and 2023 classes then that is causing such a delay?

(Not even including 2020 since HC Schiano was newly hired)

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

so NIL and the bubble aren't holding us back?

I thought those two items were crippling us and we couldn't expect even mediocre recruiting until they were addressed?

What happened with the 2021, 2022 and 2023 classes then that is causing such a delay?

(Not even including 2020 since HC Schiano was newly hired)

Lack of NIL and inadequate facilities are holding us back from getting commitments from elite prospects who have choices. We can get solid 3* prospects. It’s the 4* and 5* difference makers which are out of our league.

We need at least some of these to beat PSU, OSU, and UM. Jordan Thomas is a good example. He’s a Bosco kid who visited us last weekend then committed to Georgia.

 

[DJ Spanky]

At the same time, why in the name of God are Syracuse fans having a long conversation about him? Talk about losers...

476 pages for a team they don't care about.

Let's look at the tale of the tape, our last meetings:

Football
Sept. 11th, 2021: Rutgers 17 - Syracuse 7

Basketball
Dec. 8th, 2020: Rutgers 79 - Syracuse 69

 

[NickRU714]

Lack of NIL and inadequate facilities are holding us back from getting commitments from elite prospects who have choices. We can get solid 3* prospects. It’s the 4* and 5* difference makers which are out of our league.

We need at least some of these to beat PSU, OSU, and UM. Jordan Thomas is a good example. He’s a Bosco kid who visited us last weekend then committed to Georgia.

So then this year's class isn't going to be a monster class and we still haven't closed the talent gap?

I'm just trying to understand if recruiting is improving or not.

If the new facility isn't built until say mid 2025? Just a guess.
Then it won't impress recruits until Class of 2026 or 2027.
Then figure 2-3 years for those players to mature and become upperclassmen.
So really it's 2029 or 2030 until the breakout year?

 

[brgRC90]

476 pages for a team they don't care about.

Let's look at the tale of the tape, our last meetings:

Football
Sept. 11th, 2021: Rutgers 17 - Syracuse 7

Basketball
Dec. 8th, 2020: Rutgers 79 - Syracuse 69

Our Penn State-obsessed fans are nothing in ccomparison. And honestly, Syracuse fans really have no reason to hate us. They're not even in the same conference anymore and though we might take some area recruits away from them the reality is that neither team gets the best local recruits. Syracuse no longer mines New Jersey for talent because they're bad, not because we're good.